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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
 Posted - 03/07/2016 : 07:45:12
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quote:
Originally posted by sebaseball
3) the purpose of travel baseball, imo, is to prepare kids to compete for a job and play at a high level for their school's team. The vast majority of kids will see their "career" end with high school. To me, the idea of skipping high school to play travel ball is so wrong on a myriad of levels. I'm sure there may be some extreme outliers that this may make sense, but for 99% of kids, travel should be about preparing them for high school. So playing travel at the same time as their middle school season sets up a dynamic that one is more important than another.
I can't say I agree with you there. For my son, playing for his High School will be a great experience but it's likely his Travel Team that will allow him to move on to the next level, being college. If you are 14/15/16 and still playing travel ball it is likely because you want to play in college and unless you play for a high level high school team (which aren't as plentiful as you would think), then travel ball is what will prepare you.
School ball has always taken priority over travel ball, but that doesn't mean they can't be happening at the same time. It's up to the players (and sometimes parents) to communicate with the high school coaches about what the child has done that week in travel ball. However, some Travel teams are opting to just not play in tourneys until April when they can have their high school players back. |
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mar1dxt
30 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2016 : 11:55:13
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| Based on my son's experience thus far in High School on the JV team there is just no time to play both school ball and travel ball at the same time. During the week there is a practice or game everyday after school. On the weekends, we have had games, practices, or scrimmages every Saturday. Most Sundays are off. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2016 : 15:49:08
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quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
School ball has always taken priority over travel ball, but that doesn't mean they can't be happening at the same time. It's up to the players (and sometimes parents) to communicate with the high school coaches about what the child has done that week in travel ball. However, some Travel teams are opting to just not play in tourneys until April when they can have their high school players back.
Be careful with this. I'm not 100% sure, but I believe there is a GHSA rule about not playing on an outside team during the HS season. May only apply to Varsity players though. If I had the time, I'd try to find the rule. Maybe someone else can do the legwork... |
Edited by - bballman on 03/08/2016 15:56:41 |
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BaseballMom6
233 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2016 : 15:59:53
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| I would be surprised if there are many HS coaches that would tolerate having their players play travel during the HS season. Our coaches do not allow it. The HS season is short and other than the young Freshman that are still playing 14U ball, I would expect most travel teams to be on a break until the HS season is over. At least that has been our experience. |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2016 : 08:03:16
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Here is how my sons team is handling school AND travel ball. In short, not much happening in travel ball for the kids playing HS ball. Every now and then we see a couple of them at a night time practice in the cages or at a speed and agility, but not often, and they do NOT practice pitching with the travel team. They joined the team in August, played through November, and we are told we will see them full time again in April.
Now the post I was responding to was about middle school baseball. My sons team has a few kids that are middle school players and while games for MS trump Travel practice, travel practice seems to trump MS practice. That is where the communication becomes vital about what the kid has done that week for either team.
The HS players seem to barely be involved in travel ball, but the MS players seem to be firmly on both teams. |
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LFconcessions
29 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2016 : 10:35:07
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CaCo - been a couple years for us but 14u is tough from a scheduling perspective, but you pretty much nailed it.
My sons team scheduled (I believe) 2-3 tourney's thru Feb-Mar (& of course 1 got rained out - no surprise).
The team had 11 8th grader's & 3 9th graders (who very rarely came 'cept for maybe a BIG game). From what I recall we had 6-7 that played middle school ball. There was not a middle school team for my son, and he was fortunate to get his reps in playing with another team in Feb/Mar, when there was no conflicts with his team.
Know another thread is focused on protecting kids arms but one of our 8th graders (pretty good lefty pitcher) thru 136 pitches with 19 Ks in the middle school champ game, and it seemed to really take a toll on his arm thru the rest of the season. Can't emphasize enough to get involved to protect your sons arm! One of the guys my son trained with made a comment that really hit home with us because he felt overuse at the younger ages is a culprit. He said.... think back 20 years ago and it was uncommon to hear about pitchers getting TJ Surgery, now its unfortunately common for players to get TJ more than once.
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sebaseball
101 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2016 : 11:48:23
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quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
Now the post I was responding to was about middle school baseball. My sons team has a few kids that are middle school players and while games for MS trump Travel practice, travel practice seems to trump MS practice. That is where the communication becomes vital about what the kid has done that week for either team.
The HS players seem to barely be involved in travel ball, but the MS players seem to be firmly on both teams.
It sounds like we're all on the same page in regards to the HS player, but that there are vastly different situations at the MS level. It seems totally out of whack for me to imagine a school sponsored athletic program where kids choose to not attend practice in order to go practice with some other team. If you want extra help or private lessons that don't interfere with practice, that's fine. But to skip school practices for travel practices is just wrong. Would it be acceptable for football players or basketball players to skip out on their school practices to go practice with their travel or AAU teams? Would those coaches allow that? Is it fair to the kids who are committed to the team, show up for practice everyday to sit the bench for others who say with their actions that they're too good to be there?
I get it (because I'm living it right now) that there are middle school coaches who don't run very productive practices and who aren't in tune with developing the proper fundamentals of their players. But I don't see where it's acceptable to participate in practices/games only when you want to. In my view (and yes, I guess I'm "old school"), you're either a part of the team or you're not. If you tried out for the team, made it and agreed to play, then you should be 100% committed to that team until the season is over. Would travel coaches be fine with kids choosing to skip their practices to go practice with a different organization's travel team, but still show up to play in tournaments?
Maybe this occurs as a function of living in metro areas where kids leave MS for several different high schools and there isn't a cohesive structure of the MS & HS programs being unified. I don't know. But I do know that what Matthew 6:24 says still applies today. "No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other." While it goes on to say that you cannot serve both God & money, it applies to much more than that. Putting kids in this predicament is not in their best interest and it undermines the respect and authority of the MS coaches. That's not a good lesson to teach kids. |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2016 : 13:31:54
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quote:
Originally posted by sebaseball
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
Now the post I was responding to was about middle school baseball. My sons team has a few kids that are middle school players and while games for MS trump Travel practice, travel practice seems to trump MS practice. That is where the communication becomes vital about what the kid has done that week for either team.
The HS players seem to barely be involved in travel ball, but the MS players seem to be firmly on both teams.
It sounds like we're all on the same page in regards to the HS player, but that there are vastly different situations at the MS level. It seems totally out of whack for me to imagine a school sponsored athletic program where kids choose to not attend practice in order to go practice with some other team. If you want extra help or private lessons that don't interfere with practice, that's fine. But to skip school practices for travel practices is just wrong. Would it be acceptable for football players or basketball players to skip out on their school practices to go practice with their travel or AAU teams? Would those coaches allow that? Is it fair to the kids who are committed to the team, show up for practice everyday to sit the bench for others who say with their actions that they're too good to be there?
I get it (because I'm living it right now) that there are middle school coaches who don't run very productive practices and who aren't in tune with developing the proper fundamentals of their players. But I don't see where it's acceptable to participate in practices/games only when you want to. In my view (and yes, I guess I'm "old school"), you're either a part of the team or you're not. If you tried out for the team, made it and agreed to play, then you should be 100% committed to that team until the season is over. Would travel coaches be fine with kids choosing to skip their practices to go practice with a different organization's travel team, but still show up to play in tournaments?
Maybe this occurs as a function of living in metro areas where kids leave MS for several different high schools and there isn't a cohesive structure of the MS & HS programs being unified. I don't know. But I do know that what Matthew 6:24 says still applies today. "No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other." While it goes on to say that you cannot serve both God & money, it applies to much more than that. Putting kids in this predicament is not in their best interest and it undermines the respect and authority of the MS coaches. That's not a good lesson to teach kids.
Very valid point sebaseball! But preaching to the choir. Conversation I had with my son:
Him: Mom, what do you think about me playing football this fall?
Me: Does that mean no fall travel baseball?
Him: Oh no, I want to do that too.
Me: And what if Football and Baseball practice fall on the same night?
Him: Then I go to baseball practice.
Me: But Fall is Football season, they only have games in the fall.
Him: Yeah, but baseball is WAY more important than football!
Me: No, you can't play football this fall. |
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Ballpark_Weenies
7 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2016 : 14:14:43
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quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
Bfriendly, your kid is 12u...here are the phrases you SHOULD have already heard:
1. I don't want Tommy pitching in practice today, I want to use him on Saturday.
2. Don't warm up with the other players, you are pitching today, save your arm.
3. SHUT DOWN PERIOD (This is HUGE, if you didn't hear this you need to have a talk with your coach.
Agree completely with the above. I don't comment much but this thread is very timely. I was really disturbed to see two 10U teams throwing curveballs this weekend. Our 10U coaches shut our player's arms down over the winter, give them arm exercises to strengthen the arm muscles, count every pitch they get in during weekly practices, refrain during tournament weeks as well as a few other safety measures. I'm grateful for them being protective of my son's arm now and for the long term. However, if they were not, I would be doing it myself and jumping in to intervene if necessary. My son has had it pounded in his head by us and his coaches to protect and monitor his arm care if wants to continue to play in future years so he left those games saying "that's ridiculous that the coaches are letting those kids throw curveballs".
Yep. |
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HardBaller
101 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2016 : 09:49:53
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I number of you have mention "coaches" in reference to this topic and protecting our children's arms.
I'll have to humbly disagree. This is solely a parental responsibility period.
One team had a coach that pitched, play up to the minor league level and was a mellow, mild mannered person. Not the outwardly fiery person that often seems to want to win at all cost.
Nevertheless, this team lost 5 pitchers this 12u season two of which pitched 5 plus innings in the first February tournament of the season!!! This was the only time they pitched all year as their arms never recovered.
Nope, you can't rely on coaches to do the right thing here. This must be done by the parents. |
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HardBaller
101 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2016 : 09:55:49
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On a related note, how should we feel about the kid with the fantastic arm but never pitches?
Yes, in this case parents are protecting their players arm, however, because you can't play baseball without pitchers, it seems to be over-top selfish and contrary to the idea of TEAM.
I'd rather see everyone who can pitch throw 30-40 pitches and let the chips fall where they may.
Am I too sensitive or unrealistic here? |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2016 : 11:40:50
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quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
Youth Coaches, I would encourage you to have a conversation with every parent EVERY year about the importance of moderation of pitching on their son's arms. At 9u it seems so exciting when your boy gets to pitch, it's such a main role...but used too often and by coaches who have no problem using the same boy multiple days in a row it has the potential to cause your child a long lasting problem.
Your teams change every year. While YOU may be mindful of your pitchers arms their next coach may not be. TC, USSSA, PG...they all have guidelines to help protect a kids arm, but there are still ways to abuse a kids arm and there are coaches that just want to win NOW and don't care about the lasting ramifications for the player, they just don't think like that.
Please educate the parents, educate the players, it has to start somewhere.
hardballer, the point I was trying to make in my initial post above is that many parents don't know these rules. Youth coaches should educate all parents every year so the parent DO know the rules. Just in case their child winds up on a team with one of the coaches that does not follow the rules at least they will know what they are and can help their child not become hurt.
As for kids who aren't allowed to pitch at all...yup, that happens. There is some compelling data that kids who don't really start pitching until 14/15u are likely to have longer careers with less arm injuries. I think it is up to the coach to decide if it's worth taking the non-pitcher onto the team or not.
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catmando
107 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2016 : 16:06:58
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with less than 5% of kids playing college ball some would rather pitch when they are young knowing they never will later in life. People talking about college when their kid is not even starting for high school (which by they way is not hard to do) is crazy
http://www.hsbaseballweb.com/probability.htm
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2016 : 07:59:37
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quote:
Originally posted by catmando
with less than 5% of kids playing college ball some would rather pitch when they are young knowing they never will later in life. People talking about college when their kid is not even starting for high school (which by they way is not hard to do) is crazy
http://www.hsbaseballweb.com/probability.htm
I would agree that banning your child from pitching when he is 10 or 12 based on the idea that SOMEDAY he may need his arm for college is silly. This is suppose to be a game that kids enjoy playing, not a lottery ticket for the parents. However, some people are legacies and they KNOW their kid will have the talent because of genetics. To each their own on that one.
I can not agree that it is easy to start for your high school team, that would depend on the school. Some schools can't even field a JV team, however, the 7A and 6A schools could be very tough to even get on the team.
My son will be trying out for JV next year at a 6A school, there are only 3 seniors graduating and currently the JV team has about 15 players from ECB/643/Titans/Nelson...etc. It's not going to be a sure thing to even get on the team let alone a starting spot. |
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sebaseball
101 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2016 : 21:50:51
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[/quote]
My son will be trying out for JV next year at a 6A school, there are only 3 seniors graduating and currently the JV team has about 15 players from ECB/643/Titans/Nelson...etc. It's not going to be a sure thing to even get on the team let alone a starting spot.
[/quote]
Not trying to be crass or come across as argumentative, just curious. If you're son were to not make the HS team, do you stay to tryout again next year or strongly consider transfering? Provided of course that he really wants to continue playing. My guess is that, while it has been done, it's probably pretty rare to get cut from the HS team, end up making it in subsequent years and ultimately earn a starting job or get much playing time. Not that you'd leave out of anger toward the coach to "show him", but really more of looking at the situation objectively, assessing what the future appears to be and making a new decision. I'm not advocating staying or going, just curious as to how others see this issue. I hope I never have to find out 1st hand what I'd do, but many others have and will. |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2016 : 08:31:19
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quote:
Originally posted by sebaseball
My son will be trying out for JV next year at a 6A school, there are only 3 seniors graduating and currently the JV team has about 15 players from ECB/643/Titans/Nelson...etc. It's not going to be a sure thing to even get on the team let alone a starting spot.
Not trying to be crass or come across as argumentative, just curious. If you're son were to not make the HS team, do you stay to tryout again next year or strongly consider transfering? Provided of course that he really wants to continue playing. My guess is that, while it has been done, it's probably pretty rare to get cut from the HS team, end up making it in subsequent years and ultimately earn a starting job or get much playing time. Not that you'd leave out of anger toward the coach to "show him", but really more of looking at the situation objectively, assessing what the future appears to be and making a new decision. I'm not advocating staying or going, just curious as to how others see this issue. I hope I never have to find out 1st hand what I'd do, but many others have and will.
From what I have heard it is fairly common for a kid not to make the JV team in 9th grade but to make it in subsequent years. There are only three 2016's on the roster right now, however, there are 14 2017's. If he doesn't make it in 9th grade he will have a better shot making it in 10th grade with 14 spots open.
If he wants to play in high school and he doesn't make it in 9th grade I would recommend he respectfully thank the coach for being able to try out and ask for advice on what to work on so he could have a better tryout the following year. If he didn't make it in 10th grade rinse and repeat. If he wants it he will have to work for it.
I would never consider moving so my son could play high school baseball, he can play on his summer team to continue playing. If he still wants to play at the next level he can go to PG showcases to attempt to be recruited to play in college. I have heard of 2 or 3 GA high schools that have college caliber players that can't make the high school team because the talent is just over flowing. When the 9 players on the field are ALL D-1 commits or high draft prospects you get some serious talent left on the bench and even more that never made it onto the team. There is a local youth coach who tells parents before tryouts that HE didn't make his high school team, yet played D1 and MiLB, sometimes there is just too much talent for too few spots. It's up to the player how they handle that...give up, or try harder. |
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CoachCross
107 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2016 : 08:29:38
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| If your youth coach doesn't discuss arm care or apply pitch limits, you're on the wrong team. |
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sebaseball
101 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2016 : 10:40:28
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quote:
I would never consider moving so my son could play high school baseball, he can play on his summer team to continue playing. If he still wants to play at the next level he can go to PG showcases to attempt to be recruited to play in college. I have heard of 2 or 3 GA high schools that have college caliber players that can't make the high school team because the talent is just over flowing. When the 9 players on the field are ALL D-1 commits or high draft prospects you get some serious talent left on the bench and even more that never made it onto the team. There is a local youth coach who tells parents before tryouts that HE didn't make his high school team, yet played D1 and MiLB, sometimes there is just too much talent for too few spots. It's up to the player how they handle that...give up, or try harder.
So, a kid who doesn't want to sit the bench behind better players and transfers to another school where he has a better opportunity to play is giving up? Of course, I'm assuming that the new school would be on par academically as the 1st school, so it wouldn't be sacrificing education for athletics. That should never be done.
With the state consolodating more and more junior colleges with four year schools, this is reducing the number of college athletic opportunities. Would it be safe to assume that as the number of teams/roster spots reduce, that it'll become even more competitive to get a spot in college? If so, won't not being good enough to get on the field in HS be a bigger negative in the eyes of a college coach? I find it hard to believe that there is a HS in the state that has 9 D1 players that is keeping a solid college calibur talent on the bench. |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2016 : 13:47:13
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quote:
Originally posted by sebaseball
quote:
I would never consider moving so my son could play high school baseball, he can play on his summer team to continue playing. If he still wants to play at the next level he can go to PG showcases to attempt to be recruited to play in college. I have heard of 2 or 3 GA high schools that have college caliber players that can't make the high school team because the talent is just over flowing. When the 9 players on the field are ALL D-1 commits or high draft prospects you get some serious talent left on the bench and even more that never made it onto the team. There is a local youth coach who tells parents before tryouts that HE didn't make his high school team, yet played D1 and MiLB, sometimes there is just too much talent for too few spots. It's up to the player how they handle that...give up, or try harder.
So, a kid who doesn't want to sit the bench behind better players and transfers to another school where he has a better opportunity to play is giving up? Of course, I'm assuming that the new school would be on par academically as the 1st school, so it wouldn't be sacrificing education for athletics. That should never be done.
With the state consolodating more and more junior colleges with four year schools, this is reducing the number of college athletic opportunities. Would it be safe to assume that as the number of teams/roster spots reduce, that it'll become even more competitive to get a spot in college? If so, won't not being good enough to get on the field in HS be a bigger negative in the eyes of a college coach? I find it hard to believe that there is a HS in the state that has 9 D1 players that is keeping a solid college calibur talent on the bench.
Sebaseball, while some things to do with Travel baseball I am very gung ho (you may have noticed) but there is no way I would change school districts and or move because my son wants to play a high school sport, even if that sport is baseball :- ) If he can't make the team then he needs to try harder. If he doesn't have the talent then he needs to try another sport if he wants to play high school sports that bad. I'm willing to drive him all over GA every weekend from 4/1-7/30 but I will not uproot my family for a high school sport.
The college coaches know which teams are difficult to make, and which are not. The college coaches also have no problem talking to high school coaches and saying Joe Smith didn't make your team, do you remember the kid, can you say why? It's at that point a HS coach can say "Aw that kid, yeah I hated to cut him he had great heart but I already had an all American short stop and a d1 commit as backup and couldn't really find a spot for him, he came back stronger the next year but I had the same problem." OR "Oh that kid, Gesh, I cut him on day one and he never tried again, then the kids dad gave the principle an earful on politics and boosters and how I had my favorites. The kid threw mid 70's but it wasn't worth it to me he refused to try anything new."
There is a whole thread on here about some kids choosing to not play HS baseball and only do the Summer team thing. There is also a thread about Junior College and improving your game and grades to get a shot to transfer to a D1 if you don't make it the first time around. |
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Crazyforbball
391 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2016 : 09:17:48
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| I seem to remember a thread on here about a year ago where a top player was going to sit due to some type of similar political thing and the family did move and the kid not only played but ended up being one of the top players in the country...a catcher maybe? Anyone remember this? |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2016 : 09:55:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Crazyforbball
I seem to remember a thread on here about a year ago where a top player was going to sit due to some type of similar political thing and the family did move and the kid not only played but ended up being one of the top players in the country...a catcher maybe? Anyone remember this?
Yes, that was BBall123's kid, here is the thread:
http://www.nwgabaseball.org/snitz/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=35251
It's a long thread and I'm sure BBall123 feels he made the absolute right choice for his son. Also, several people chimed in that his situation was the rarity in the baseball world. I'm of the OPINION that the his summer team had far more to do with achieving his dream of playing D1.
For those of you too busy to read the thread, this was his last update:
BBall123
385 Posts
Posted - 11/12/2015 : 07:06:26 Show Profile Email Poster Reply with Quote
Updating here,,
What an awesome summer playing with the best players in the country and the top teams in the country. After playing at Coney Island in the Met city Classic, San Diego in the Perfect Game All American Game on national TV, Tampa in the east coast pro, Phoenix Arizona in the PG world series, Jupiter Fl. in the WWBA world championships, Ft Myers in the National showcase. Making it through the second round of trials for Team USA before having to pull out of the trials due to conflicting schedules. Multiple tourneys and showcases all over the south, Ole Miss, Miss. St., Auburn, Clemson. Being selected for Junior team Ga, Ga dugout club top 100 and the Ga dugout preview magazine.
Yesterday my son got to sign his National Letter of Intent to play division 1 college baseball.
What a ride! But don't blink, its over before you know it.
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Crazyforbball
391 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2016 : 09:14:45
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| Yes CaCO3 that is the one I was referring to! Love his story..of course the travel team was the catalyst to D1 but a kid of this calibre should not have to miss out on the high school experience, or sit the bench, due to stupid politics..he should be able to contribute to his school and team with an obviously off the chain skill set. |
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dad4kids
109 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2016 : 14:24:02
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| I would respectuflly suggest that it's not any travel team that led to his D1 scholly but, instead, the kid's talent, desire, and work ethic (a 1.7 pop time never hurts!). As parents, I think we ultimately have to trust in those important factors prevailing over the many extraneous influences that may rear their ugly head as excuses or otherwise (e.g., politics, favorites, booster $$$, etc.). We all want the best for our kids and sometimes have to make hard choices. But hopefully that's just putting them in the position to let them achieve based upon their own merit (as we watch from a safe distance without meddling). |
Edited by - dad4kids on 04/01/2016 17:46:28 |
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bfriendly
376 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2016 : 15:37:17
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Thanks B,
Awesome bball123!
Great read and Super Post!
You blink and you have missed a bunch that is for sure! |
Edited by - bfriendly on 04/01/2016 17:46:28 |
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Youth Coaches, educate the parents!
