| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Titan1
210 Posts |
 Posted - 06/08/2009 : 13:30:43
|
| I am just curious what is everyones take on stalling a game when you are ahead? Had a situation happen this weekend where we had the lead and the clock was running down, we where the home team, I told my coach we are going to slow the game down since the other team was trying to speed the game up. My other coach went a little overboard, I was on third base and our dugout was on first. It did not matter in the end as we went to another inning anyway and the other team got another at bat. |
|
|
ingasven
120 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2009 : 15:14:37
|
| Win the game with gloves, bats & balls not via shoestrings and huddles. |
 |
|
|
bstand
56 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2009 : 15:45:17
|
Titan1,
It could be argued that slowing down or speeding up a game is another facet of having to manage the total game. No different than setting your lineup for maximum offense, or selecting the correct pitcher for your opponent, to deciding when to play small ball. Earlier in my coaching career I felt it was my right to "stall" when required. If I could call a time out or 2, or have a player tie his shoes, no harm, no foul. Having been on both sides of the equation, the longer I have coached, and the more I have experienced, I feel as though it actually takes away from the kids on the team trying to stall, not to mention the opponents. We should be teaching the kids to win by competing. I will still call time outs when needed, and always ensure my players are prepared, but I don't think it is right to intentionally stall a game, for the sake of the players on both sides. JMHO. |
|
|
|
oldmanmj
191 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2009 : 16:04:52
|
| Great question. Every coach is different. I lean towards the "Play me straight up" side of coaching. If you feel like you have stall to get a win because you are "LUCKY" enough to be leading, not because your team is any good, shame on you. Making 3 trips to the mound, switching pitchers, talking to your batters, etc... bush league in my opinion. I will take the loss straight up, but you won't catch me stalling to get the win. I am always aware how much time is left, so take care of business and move on. You lose, you lose. If your out of pitching your out. What about the Umpires that call the game with 1 minute left and your the visiting team with momentum in your favor and the heart of your lineup next? |
|
|
|
Topscout
59 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2009 : 16:49:09
|
Interesting question.
The intent of the game is to play the full game (6 or 7 innings). Time limits are necessary to maintain a reasonable schedule, but certainly detract from the game.
My thought is blatant stalling is bush league and should not be allowed. There are more subtle ways to stall such as taking a lot of pitches. |
|
|
|
AllStar
762 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2009 : 17:37:09
|
I hate it. One of the beauties of baseball is that there is no clock.
Lots of folks do it. Some worse than others. |
|
|
|
bambino_dad
119 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2009 : 18:28:06
|
| It's a "nobody likes it but everybody does it" strategy. The baseball equivalent of taking a knee on the diamond. |
|
|
|
gasbag
281 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2009 : 20:16:24
|
| I absolutely abhor the stalling technique. I think it it sends the wrong message to the kids. My motto is win like a champion...and lose like a champion as well. Stalling is not winning like a champion IMO. I think anyone who wants to preserve their victory by stalling, is an opponent whom is afraid of losing and therfor, not a champion of any kind. |
|
|
|
beisbolpapa
11 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2009 : 20:16:49
|
| get use to it ,if we are going to have a clock ,there will be stalling,same as football and basketball.if we dont want stalling take the clock away. |
|
|
|
Titan1
210 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2009 : 22:19:35
|
| beisbolpapa: good point, should Duke be looked at as not champions for slowing down their offense and making three of four extra passes each time down court because they are winning?Do you really think in the majors that if there was a time limit they would not slow down the game( stall) to finish the game with a win? |
Edited by - Titan1 on 06/09/2009 08:44:52 |
|
|
|
Titan1
210 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2009 : 22:35:49
|
| My opponent in this game tried to speed the game up. He did not have his pitcher take any warm ups and rushed his kids out into the field. He did not do this any other inning so to me he was trying to throw my kids routine off before the inning ever started. Our decision to stall was based on his decision to hurry up the game. Why not just play the game we did that for four innings and it was working out well enough. Why change it up? |
|
|
|
skcor
7 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2009 : 00:04:20
|
| The stalling is like hitting the snooze button on your alarm. You can gain an inning or two of pitching and can still get to Johnny's Pizza before they close. There is something good about everything that's bad. |
|
|
|
highcheese
71 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2009 : 02:54:36
|
| Good question. You can look at it in two ways - baseball should have no time limits and play it as it comes, beautiful. The other way is to play it by the rules set infront of you and use all the tools in the bag to see if you can help with the ultimate outcome, sucks. The latter comes with the stigma of win at all costs. i like the purest view of winning on the field or losing to a team that played just a little better than you did that day. There is not a coach worth his salt that does not watch the clock, no matter what he says. I have been on both ends of the stick. But in the end what are we teaching our kids, look deep and answer this yourself, I cannot give the answer because it comes from deep within each person. Our team this year took the approach that we were going to try to play a full six whenever possible and win with our talent and grit. We sprinted on and off the field, we were waiting to hit, we were waiting to pitch to a hitter, we did not argue calls for 15 minutes, we stayed focused on the task at hand. Did it bite us every once in awhile when they had murderers row up the next inning, sure it did. It taught our little guys to compete every batter and every out until the fat lady sang. I think it will go as a tremendous positive experience in the end. Playing the right way should trump, but man is it tough sometimes with the cards your dealt. Hey, take a kid to the park this week and have a blast. |
|
|
|
baseballbrad
71 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2009 : 08:18:41
|
Everybody doesnt do it. I've never done it.Never will.In fact I have played additional innings after time expired to allow my kids the opportunity to compete.When we as adults decide to give the game back to the kids (where it belongs) and check our egos it will be a much better experience for the kids.We have too much win at all costs is our society and it has unfortunately spilled over into youth sports.As a coach you cant't be afraid to allow your kids to compete and yes possibly lose ! It doesnt make you a lesser coach if you lose.This game is for the kids. Until they put a clock in Major League baseball I will continue to never stall!!
When quote:
Originally posted by bambino_dad
It's a "nobody likes it but everybody does it" strategy. The baseball equivalent of taking a knee on the diamond.
|
|
|
|
baseball37
26 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2009 : 08:54:34
|
Play the game! Do not call excessive offensive timeouts...do not have your batter's come to the plate with BOTH shoes untied. Manage the game in a professional, respectable manner.
|
|
|
|
Alter-Ego
802 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2009 : 09:18:33
|
I am not going to intentionally give another team an inning if I don't have to. Not because I don't think I can win, but because, unless it is a scrimmage (which I will gladly give as many extra innings as they want) I don't want to waste an inning of pitching I might need later in the tournament.
Both teams get the same amount of time to score more runs than the other.
I have been involved in almost every facet of this issue and the only one I hate is the coach that comes out, changes a pitcher, lets him pitch to a batter, changes pitchers again, etc. That IS bush league and a sign that you don't think you can hold me from coming back.
Now if a team is doing what Titan1 mentioned above (trying to speed the game up by not taking warmup pitches, not throwing around, getting uptight with batters working the count, yelling at the umpire to speed people up, etc) I feel the other team has the right to balance the flow of the game by not letting his/her players get rushed in their AB's.
I also have a problem with a pitcher trying to quick-pitch a batter before they are ready in the batter's box, but that is a subject for another day. |
|
|
|
Titan1
210 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2009 : 14:50:51
|
Alter-Ego it is almost like you saw the game in question. What you described is almost exactly what happened including the other team( the one on defense) quick pitching the batter almost as soon as they stepped in the box. The coaches stopped giving the catcher signs the pitcher got the ball and stepped on the rubber and watched the batter until he stepped in the box then threw the ball. The batter never had a chance to get ready. Also, something else that has not been mentioned is that the batters where not told to take pitches. I did not want them thinking to much in the box so they where told what they have always been told if they get a pitch they can drive then swing at it. I do not have the book infront of me but if my memory serves me right, the first batter got out on the third pitch, next batter on the second pitch and last batter on the second pitch.
quote:
Originally posted by Alter-Ego
I am not going to intentionally give another team an inning if I don't have to. Not because I don't think I can win, but because, unless it is a scrimmage (which I will gladly give as many extra innings as they want) I don't want to waste an inning of pitching I might need later in the tournament.
Both teams get the same amount of time to score more runs than the other.
I have been involved in almost every facet of this issue and the only one I hate is the coach that comes out, changes a pitcher, lets him pitch to a batter, changes pitchers again, etc. That IS bush league and a sign that you don't think you can hold me from coming back.
Now if a team is doing what Titan1 mentioned above (trying to speed the game up by not taking warmup pitches, not throwing around, getting uptight with batters working the count, yelling at the umpire to speed people up, etc) I feel the other team has the right to balance the flow of the game by not letting his/her players get rushed in their AB's.
I also have a problem with a pitcher trying to quick-pitch a batter before they are ready in the batter's box, but that is a subject for another day.
|
|
|
|
zbake
399 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2009 : 11:03:21
|
| The only reason there is a time limit is for scheduling. Play the game the way it is meant. I am not going to "manage" the clock. That is just my way. If my teams are going to win or lose its by playing the game. Football and basketball clock management is part of the game. In baseball its not part of the real game. We were in a tournament and the umpire told all coaches that they are not going to tolerate the stall tactic. Play the game ON the field. |
|
|
|
Alter-Ego
802 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2009 : 11:54:42
|
titan1,
I have eyes everywhere, didn't you know that? 
|
|
|
|
ronicard
117 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2009 : 10:48:21
|
quote:
Originally posted by zbake
The only reason there is a time limit is for scheduling. Play the game the way it is meant. I am not going to "manage" the clock. That is just my way. If my teams are going to win or lose its by playing the game. Football and basketball clock management is part of the game. In baseball its not part of the real game. We were in a tournament and the umpire told all coaches that they are not going to tolerate the stall tactic. Play the game ON the field.
Well, if you want to be technical, the mercy real (15 after 3, 10 after 4, etc) is not part of the "real game" of baseball either. If my team is playing in a tournament and we are playing with time limits (every one I've been a part of with the exception of Cooperstown has it), then it IS a part of my strategy as a coach. I do not believe in changing pitchers, etc to keep from playing another inning. However, I have most certainly given take signs to my batters when I know that we are within 1 or 2 minutes of hitting the time limit. As Alter-Ego states, it just makes sense from the perspective of saving pitching.
We actually had a game in a tournament this year where we were winning by 8 runs but needed 2 more to invoke the mercy rule. We were playing on a short fence (11 year old -- 200 feet all the way around) field and the opposing coach asked the umpire how much time was left in the game. The umpire responded, "1 minute...no make that 40 seconds". I had my batter step out of the box and I signalled in a take sign. He gave me the signal asking me to roll the signs again, so I gave it again. He nodded and stepped back in the box. On the very next pitch, he hit it over the center field fence. After the game, I had to get onto the player because he ignored the take sign. In that instance, it worked to our benefit, but if that ball had been 5 feet shorter and the center fielder had caught it, we have to play another inning and throw another pitcher. And there's always the possibility that the other team can catch lightning in a bottle and make a comeback.
So, no, I have no problem with a coach using tactics to avoid another inning unless he's doing the pull a pitcher maneuver or calling timeout to talk with his batters for every batter. There are already rules in the rule book that allow the umpire to add additional innings onto a game if they feel a coach is stalling. If they truly think that's the case, use that power. |
|
|
|
Titan1
210 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2009 : 12:40:07
|
| Why has everyone gone quite on this? Are the ones who complain the most about stalling also the ones who try and rush the game? |
|
|
|
baseballbrad
71 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2009 : 14:19:07
|
I think the baseball community has spoken.Not counting yourself since you posed the question I count 12 negative comments, 2 comments that say it is ok and 2 neutrel comments.86% responses against it.That pretty much says it all.
quote:
Originally posted by Titan1
Why has everyone gone quite on this? Are the ones who complain the most about stalling also the ones who try and rush the game?
|
|
|
|
ingasven
120 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2009 : 18:01:08
|
quote:
Originally posted by ronicard
quote:
Originally posted by zbake
The only reason there is a time limit is for scheduling. Play the game the way it is meant. I am not going to "manage" the clock. That is just my way. If my teams are going to win or lose its by playing the game. Football and basketball clock management is part of the game. In baseball its not part of the real game. We were in a tournament and the umpire told all coaches that they are not going to tolerate the stall tactic. Play the game ON the field.
Well, if you want to be technical, the mercy real (15 after 3, 10 after 4, etc) is not part of the "real game" of baseball either. If my team is playing in a tournament and we are playing with time limits (every one I've been a part of with the exception of Cooperstown has it), then it IS a part of my strategy as a coach. I do not believe in changing pitchers, etc to keep from playing another inning. However, I have most certainly given take signs to my batters when I know that we are within 1 or 2 minutes of hitting the time limit. As Alter-Ego states, it just makes sense from the perspective of saving pitching.
We actually had a game in a tournament this year where we were winning by 8 runs but needed 2 more to invoke the mercy rule. We were playing on a short fence (11 year old -- 200 feet all the way around) field and the opposing coach asked the umpire how much time was left in the game. The umpire responded, "1 minute...no make that 40 seconds". I had my batter step out of the box and I signalled in a take sign. He gave me the signal asking me to roll the signs again, so I gave it again. He nodded and stepped back in the box. On the very next pitch, he hit it over the center field fence. After the game, I had to get onto the player because he ignored the take sign. In that instance, it worked to our benefit, but if that ball had been 5 feet shorter and the center fielder had caught it, we have to play another inning and throw another pitcher. And there's always the possibility that the other team can catch lightning in a bottle and make a comeback.
So, no, I have no problem with a coach using tactics to avoid another inning unless he's doing the pull a pitcher maneuver or calling timeout to talk with his batters for every batter. There are already rules in the rule book that allow the umpire to add additional innings onto a game if they feel a coach is stalling. If they truly think that's the case, use that power.
So certain versions of stalling are ok, but others are off-limits???
To each his own and nobody here is going to change someone else's opinion, but if you're against stalling you won't use any tactics and if you're for it you'll use anything in the book.
Just my opinion
And I still say it's a cheap way to win...again just my opinion. |
Edited by - ingasven on 06/12/2009 08:48:12 |
|
|
|
Titan1
210 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2009 : 21:09:44
|
I guess you are right Coach Brad, there should be no place in the game for stalling . I also think there is no place in the game for speeding the game up and apparently I am not alone in this. Best of luck in the State Championship and we look forward to playing you again.
quote:
Originally posted by baseballbrad
I think the baseball community has spoken.Not counting yourself since you posed the question I count 12 negative comments, 2 comments that say it is ok and 2 neutrel comments.86% responses against it.That pretty much says it all.
quote:
Originally posted by Titan1
Why has everyone gone quite on this? Are the ones who complain the most about stalling also the ones who try and rush the game?
|
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
Stalling a game
