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AllStar
762 Posts |
 Posted - 05/05/2009 : 08:14:47
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My son's team has a couple of pitchers who throw a lot of breaking stuff and a couple who throw fastballs and change ups exclusively. After a tournament weekend, the boys who throw fastballs and change ups can throw normally on Monday. It's at least Wednesday for the kids that throw a lot of different pitches.
The kids with the breaking stuff have the most strikeouts. And walks. And pitches per inning. There is not a big difference in ERA.
Personally, I don't think it's worth it. |
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clubhousebaseball1
13 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2009 : 10:11:35
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I agree with highcheese. If I was not concerned about the kids, I would simply let these so called coaches ruin there arms. In time the pool for good players later in life will help others that would normally not have a chance to play get a shot. With that being said, I know most kids playing at this level love the game. They are also being coached by men with such an apparent ego problem they do whatever it takes to win. Parents, protect your child and if a coach demands things of your son you are not comfortable with, CHANGE TEAMS!!!!
My take on all this is those parents allowing their kids to pitch like this at their young ages could never do it themselves. Look at Tom Glavine and other pro pitchers philosophy. I have never heard any of them say it is good to throw a curve before they can shave. Not one!
A boy is going to do whatever is asked of him because he is a "team player". Be smart enough to look at a coach and say we do not want him throwing anything close to resembling a curve ball. If he is a good coach, he will focus on the fastball and out of this world change up. I would bet your team will be just as successful. Even holding it with "special grips" that are not a normal position for a fastball is stressing an arm. It is far more damaging on children that do not have the bone or ligament strength at their young ages.
Highcheese and others, we can only try and show insight and bring awareness to this, the only way to correct it is to get these coaches away from our kids. That will have to be left to the parents as this message board will not do it. As highcheese eluded to, I am not sure how many of these teams have a surgeon on staff that can take liability for making such a comment. My question is how many surgeons have their kids pitching at this level? |
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highcheese
71 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2009 : 11:49:01
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| Allstar - excellent observation. Please point this out to the parents and coaches. Parents and coaches need to also keep the lines of communication open with there little guys and ask them if their arm hurts and also make sure the kid knows he will not get in trouble if he says his arm hurts. If there is any hint of this LISTEN. Do not run him out to shortstop to take 75 grounders, turn some double plays, throw 50 in from left field to 2nd, third and home. Yes let him practice but put the balls in a bucket. If there is pain there is usually a reason for it, DEAL with it. To Allstars point again - what you do with your pitchers in between weekend tournaments is critical too. You keep your guys on a pitch count and watch their mechanics over the weekend then the next week of practice should be ok. i believe in stretching at least the next day, some lighter throwing and keeping things loose for the next couple of days. For the guy who threw way to much over the weekend, exhausted his muscles, threw some junk, the recooperation time is significantly more. Here is an excellent coaching point - with all our field time limited etc... we try to get as much done in the short time we have with our kids - it is incredibily tough to practice pitching, catching, infield and outfield and situational play when you have guys with sore arms or limited motion. So..... stop a component of the problem you can - sore arms - and i gurantee you will end up with a better team over all. Keep them all playing and not on the DL. |
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baseball99
89 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2009 : 14:08:27
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Throwing curves the "old fashioned way" will definitely cause problems for adults as well as kids. Though many of the folks on this forum profess to be "experts" and possess a lot of knowledge, most of them do not. Best advice I have received is to focus on good mechanics, stretch before throwing, do long toss and limit pitch counts. This advice was from an expert in the field of sports medicine.
Bottom line, this forum is enjoyable to read but if you are looking for advice from this forum regarding your child's safety and well being, you are looking in the wrong place. Do yourself a favor and seek advice from an expert when someone tries to teach your son a pitch you are not familiar with. If the expert says that the pitch will hurt his arm, put a stop to it. |
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highcheese
71 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2009 : 22:08:45
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Baseball99 has a good point and it relates to my earlier post on getting qualified expert help. Parenta and coaches need to know what they know and really question what they think they know. This is all for the safety of the kids, and the ability to pass on real information they can use for a life time inside and outside of baseball. Seeking expert advice may cost upfront but it will pay dividends later. I never knew how difficult it was to coach until I started coaching 5 and 6 yr old little guys and trying to pass on 35+years of experience and knowledge. Here is a little history why I am so passionate that people take this pitching thing seriously. i am working on 45 yrs old now and started pitching when I was 9 in little league. Continued through Older leagues, allstar teams, high school and college. Continued competitive fastpitch, 18 and over baseball leagues and 30 and over leagues. Sorry, but I love the game with a stick and a ball and a glove. I had always been a big guy who threw hard, had a decent change and a nice curve. i always warmed up properly, etc and took care of my arm like Baseball99 was alluding too. Never had an arm problem in my life, no rotator cuff problems etc.. must have been blessed, maybe so. Here is where I got stupid - took a little more than a year off in the mid to late 90's, do a little business, get married have some kids, stuff like that. i was talked into coming back and playing baseball again, great, love it, lets do it. Started right back in like having never missed a step. Ah, couple games into the season started to have a little soreness in the arm - hey old age right, a little Alleve and away we go. Got to the fourth inning of a game, threw a cut fast ball in on a guys hands - nope, ball went into visitors dugout - I snapped my humerous bone in half - helpless feeling when you cannot feel your arm or move it.TOAST. Did the ole Dave Dravecky thing.
Having sout out the best doctors and surgeons etc... to see what went wrong, is there cancer, etc... Nope. Come to find out the bone density I had all those years throwing had decreased tremendously when I took the time off. The amount of torgue your muscles can put on the bones when throwing is tremendous, and add to that a cutting fast ball that had a little twist to it, ala snap in half in a split second. I went through all the motion studies with experts and every one of them asked me what kind of pitches I was throwing. Everytime the curveball came up there was some shaking of the heads. The bone density i had at the time was equated back to teen years but with the muscle structure of a fit 30 something. Remember what they say "use it or loose it".
Take this wonderful example and think about kids, muscles, growth plates, curveballs, large pitch counts etc... the research and conversations I had with experts on kids and motion studies where incredible. This is part of my passion for the subject. Protect them, you are the adults. Train them, you are the adults. Love them, you are the adults. There will come a time when you cannot, but do all you can when you can. |
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clubhousebaseball1
13 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2009 : 23:36:16
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I do not think baseball99 read highcheeses comments. You can find an expert to tell you the stimulus package is a great plan. If you want to hear what he has to say, than you will be deaf to real advice. Maybe we dummies have no doctorate degree, but I have been around baseball my whole life and have seen more than my fair share of players hurt from overstressed arms. I really do not need a PHD to see a boy plays ball at 10, a boy throws junk and stressful pitching at 10, a boy is out for months with arm problems. The math is easy.
The real bottom line is if you have a boy on your team that is throwing junk at 10 years old, you owe it to him to stop it. If he is your son and you are allowing it, you should be ashamed. If he is not good enough to pitch with just a fastball and a change up, maybe you should focus him on another position. We all do not produce pitchers. Too many of these parents and coaches are trying to make there sons do what they could not do themselves. I will say it again, if he is throwing junk pitches, he may be considered a good pitcher now, but will not be when it counts. So, keep fishing for the best 10 year old pitcher out there. It will change in a couple of yers if you picked someone throwing this stuff. I prefer to pick boys that look long term and are smarter than what I am hearing from some of the people on this panel. |
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Rocky
290 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2009 : 09:10:36
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"stretch before throwing" A big question should you stretch before you throw? Depends on what type of stretching. Static stretching (or stretching in place) should not be done prior to pitching because it has been proven to actually reduce performance and increase the risk of injury. It also has been proven to reduce velocity in pitchers. A pitcher's shoulder is already the most loose joint in the body. And for a pitcher having a shoulder that is too loose can lead to injury. There is a fine line between being too loose or too tight.
Yes, pitchers do require flexibility. However, any full body static stretching should only be done after competition. |
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10U Major Pitching
