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nastycurve
244 Posts |
 Posted - 08/11/2015 : 15:31:29
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Regarding the parents with extra rose colored glasses on... I was also at the baseball scoutz showcase this weekend and had a couple of things that caught my attention.
First off was the lack of overall talent was one. The initial invite said they were capping the event at 200 players, it ended up being about 250. Because of this, games and workouts ran longer than expected and there was much less field time per player. Out of the 250 players, 100 of them didnt need to be there, 25 of them(at least) needed to stop playing baseball altogether. I saw one poor child in BP swing at balls like he had a broken fly swatter, he missed 5 out of 5 in the first round and 3 out of 5 in the second round, it looked like it was his first day ever putting on cleats.
Also, there was a guy who threw the ball OUT OF THE FIELD, IN WARM-UPS. GA southern has at least a 50 foot backstop net, this guy was a right hand person(cant call him a pitcher) and his second warm up "throw" went wide of the right handed batters box, over the net and into the stands a few rows short of the concession stand. The crowd scattered and of course this drew quite a few laughs, his father who I think was more embarrassed than the thrower angrily stated that "it slipped", to which someone replied "im glad he didnt do it on purpose". The thrower began his inning of "work" and promptly threw the worst inning of baseball I've seen in a while. He had about 7-8 wild "throws" which the father exclaimed were good waste pitches if the catcher knew how to catch... smh there was a LARGE gap between the haves and have nots when it came to talent at this event.
The college recruiters and pro scouts were paid to be there, as is the case at the majority of showcases Ive been to. They not only look for talent for their programs, but are responsible for the write-ups and evaluations of all 250 players. I like this way more than PG who has their own personnel responsible for write-ups and evaluations. I feel like you would get a more honest review from someone who has nothing to gain in getting you to come back and spend more money, but I digress. The scouts were out there Saturday and Sunday from 7:30am to about 9pm, thats a lot of work and it all starts to become redundant after a while, even harder to watch when some of these kids cant make it out the infield, let alone make it on a college roster.
All in all not a horrible event, just rushed because of the amount of players and only one field to utilize. They sell it as an invite only all star/showcase but then they invite and accept the world and its hard to get to the core of good players there because you are rushing through all of them. There were about 30 schools there and 4-5 pro teams, if you showed off in the limited time you received, they noticed, if not, they didn't. But all camps and organizations are in this for one reason, to make money, any showcasing of your kid is a bonus(to you).
I thought about what would solve this...
I would love to see a showcase where you still had to pay to be there, but kids were vetted prior to being accepted. For instance I think PG should make a second tier showcase and call it the (South, Southeast, North, Atlantic, etc) 8's, 9's, 10's. Process would be as such: you go to any of their open showcases and it would be as it is, you work out, get evaluated get graded. Once you have received that grade, it gives you access to one of the second tier showcases. You live in GA and make a 8.5, you qualify for the Southeast 8's showcase. PG would publish their criteria for what values make up a kids rating (points for 60, points for technique, bp, fielding, versatility, gameplay etc) and therefore colleges could know what and when the type players they want would be showcasing, and players would have to earn the right by hitting specific markers. If Vanderbilt wants nothing but 9's(based on criteria) they could come to the Southeast 9's showcase and actually find players to fit them, without having to sift through 3-400 kids.
Wishful thinking, I know... |
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cop311
44 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2015 : 15:41:24
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quote:
Originally posted by DecaturDad
I agree with bballman. Although they are expensive, any good high school player should do at least one perfect game showcase. There is one at the end of August at Lake Point. The cost is $650 for the weekend. If nothing else, your son will get a grade from doing that showcase. They grade from zero to 10:
10 -- Potential very high draft pick, Top DI in the nation prospect
9 -- Potential top 10 round pick, Top DI prospect
8 -- Potential mid round pick, definite DI prospect
7 -- Potential low round pick, DI prospect or top level Juco, DII
6 -- Possible DI prospect, definite DII or Juco prospect
5 -- Possible DII prospect or mid range Juco prospect
4 -- Possible low level DII or high level DIII prospect
3 -- Possible DIII or low level Juco prospect
2 -- Possible low level DIII prospect
1 -- No prospect at this time
Sure, this is just one opinion. But if you 2 or 3, be looking at a school that fits. At the same time, if you grade as a 9.5, you should have plenty of options.
From Perfect Game
Perfect Game USA's Player Rating System
10
Potential very high draft pick and/or Elite level college prospect
9
Potential top 10 round pick and/or highest level college prospect
8
Potential draft pick and/or excellent college prospect
7
College prospect, possible future draft pick with development
6
Potential college prospect
5
Possible College prospect and/or possible HS varsity
4
HS JV
3
Possible HS JV
2
No prospect at this time
1
The game is too dangerous
This is the rating system I've always seen never seen anyone lower than a 6.
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2015 : 16:34:55
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quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
quote:
Originally posted by rippit
I spewed coffee when Leftfielddad called out Villanova! They obviously emailed every kid who was on a WWBA roster. He got that email on Saturday for a camp that's today IN PENNSYLVANIA. Wow. There's a kid on his summer team who wasn't even at that tournament and laughed at the wording "we saw you in the WWBA...". Kid goes, "I WASN'T EVEN IN TOWN!" lol.
Not like I've looked at every PG rating on every kid, but has anybody here seen anybody rated less than a 7? Maybe seen a 6.5 but I can't remember. I've seen kids that I didn't think to be very special get 7s and 7.5s which according to the list that DDAD just put out makes them all better than D3. It seems like size does matter (in this scenario ;>0 )We haven't done the PG thing because I just didn't want to spend the money and now I'm wondering if that's actually hurting. We have a video we've sent out that has gotten a decent response, but it really is like a full time job to help sort through all this and now that school has started back it's more of a challenge.
I think DDad was a bit generous with his numbers. I don't think any D1 is going to take less than a 9.0...the fact is they just don't have to. I have never seen a PG showcase grade below 6.5 and that kid did not play in college.
I know one 2016 graduate who went to his first showcase in 9th grade (Dec. 2012), he got a 7.5 score. There he learned what was expected and focused on just those things that would make him shine in THAT showcase, he went back in 10th grade (Dec. 2013) and got a 9.5! Dec 2014 he finally got his PG score of 10 as a Junior...every showcase he went back to improve one piece of the puzzle and the complete puzzle got him the best grade.
Some people don't go the PG showcase route...but I don't understand why if they are willing to go to 3 cheaper showcases surely that could have equaled the one quality PG showcase, money wise, especially since they specifically have showcases called "uncommitted". If my boy continues to improve and if he still wants to play in college that will be the route I plan on taking him.
Couple things. DecaturDad did not come up with the scale. That is the scale published on the PG website. But, I agree, PG is usually pretty generous with this scale. You don't see a lot of really low grades. Part of that may be because if you request of PG to not publish the grade and review, they will honor that and not make it accessible to the public. However, I have seen some kids graded a 7 that there is NO way he would be considered any round prospect or a D1 prospect. They may be building projection into this equation, or just making people feel good.
I would say, CaCo3Girl is pretty spot on with getting a grade of 9+ if you want to consider D1. Particularly upper echelon D1. My son had some D1 interest as an 8.5, but his grades kind of took him out of that equation. And they were not top level D1 programs. He did get picked up by a pretty high level D2 program as an 8.5. His current school is pretty consistently in the top 25 in the country D2, getting as high as #3 last year.
You can go to the PG website and search for particular player's name and look at their profile. If you know the player, use your judgement against what PG graded them and see what they said in their write ups. None of the write ups will be really negative, but if you compare a 7 to a 9.5, you will see subtle differences in how they describe their skill set. |
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rippit
667 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2015 : 17:35:07
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^^^^^^what nasty curve came up with is excellent!
Also, after seeing several kids go D1 this summer, and plenty more from our HS, coaches really are looking at athleticism. From summer, kids who do make errors and have hitting slumps but stand 6'3 and up, can run and throw hard (even balls and HBp), get D1 schollies. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2015 : 20:33:23
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In regard to what nastycurve brought up about "levels" of showcases. It wouldn't surprise me if there weren't recruiters who looked thru PG ratings, found some 8s, 9s & 10s. Then matched up what their needs were and who they thought would be an appropriate level for their team, then went to watch some of those players at a PG tournament. In other words, maybe Vandebilt is looking for only 9.5s or 10s. They need middle infielders in the near future. So they find some in their target area and look to see them play at an upcoming WWBA. A high level D2 may need a catcher soon. They search the PG data base for 8.5 - 9 graded catchers in their area, then find them and watch them during the WWBA. Scout level subscribers have the ability to do those kinds of searches in the PG database. Who knows, they may just find what they need that way.
Do all of them do this? Probably not. Do some do this as a part of their recruiting process? I'm sure they do. So, really going to a PG showcase could be considered a pre-qualifier - with the true "showcase" being the recruiter watching the player during one of the tournaments.
There are many ways for players and recruiters to hook up. This may be one. My son was initially seen at the Georgia Top 100 event. Recruiter started calling him. Came to a WWBA to see him pitch, then had him come to their campus with his summer team to pitch in front of the head coach. They offered him that day. He went to a camp for another school. Went with no prior contact. They liked him, talked to him, had him come out for a campus visit and offered him that day. Turned out they knew who he was prior to the showcase, but we didn't know that at the time. Different ways...
If you are athletic and have the skills, someone will notice. It's a matter of getting yourself in front of the right people who have a need for your skills at the time. |
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in_the_know
985 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2015 : 23:22:50
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quote:
Originally posted by nastycurve
I thought about what would solve this...
I would love to see a showcase where you still had to pay to be there, but kids were vetted prior to being accepted. For instance I think PG should make a second tier showcase and call it the (South, Southeast, North, Atlantic, etc) 8's, 9's, 10's. Process would be as such: you go to any of their open showcases and it would be as it is, you work out, get evaluated get graded. Once you have received that grade, it gives you access to one of the second tier showcases. You live in GA and make a 8.5, you qualify for the Southeast 8's showcase. PG would publish their criteria for what values make up a kids rating (points for 60, points for technique, bp, fielding, versatility, gameplay etc) and therefore colleges could know what and when the type players they want would be showcasing, and players would have to earn the right by hitting specific markers. If Vanderbilt wants nothing but 9's(based on criteria) they could come to the Southeast 9's showcase and actually find players to fit them, without having to sift through 3-400 kids.
Wishful thinking, I know...
This actually exists, it's called the Georgia Top 100 and it's run every year by the Georgia Dugout Club. Basically they host multiple events across various Georgia High Schools over a couple of weeks (these events run about $100). These are run similar to most showcases where players run through combine style exercises (60, BP in cage, Pitching in pen) and then face live pitching in scrimmages. From all of these events, the "Top 100" which I believe actually ends up being around 140 upper and underclass players that are invited to a final showcase at Georgia Gwinnett College.
The "qualifier" showcases are well run and typically have several college and high school coaches running and compiling the data/evaluations. The main event at GGC usually has 50+ college and pro scouts in attendance and has pretty good representation of some of the top unsigned players from the state. I can guarantee that you won't see the talent vacuum you all experienced at GA Southern for the Scoutz event.
I know of a player who secured a solid DII scholarship and had several other offers that were the direct result of attending the GA Dugout Club event. It's hosted every year shortly after the end of the HS season (qualifiers taking place early June and final event late June). |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2015 : 10:19:47
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quote:
Originally posted by in_the_know
I know of a player who secured a solid DII scholarship and had several other offers that were the direct result of attending the GA Dugout Club event. It's hosted every year shortly after the end of the HS season (qualifiers taking place early June and final event late June).
Are you talking about me? 
Seriously, as I stated in my last post, my son was initially seen at the Top 100 main event, although it was held at Marietta HS. There were a lot more than 50 scouts and recruiters there. It was a pretty impressive showing. There were also A LOT of guys who wound up going big time D1 that were at the event as well as a good number who have subsequently been drafted. The talent level was pretty high at the main event.
My son's recruiting coordinator wanted to see him again (he did at a WWBA event), then wanted the head coach to see him at the school. And he was given a pretty solid scholarship. But the initial interest was generated at the Top 100 event. |
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leftfielddad
16 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2015 : 10:26:26
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| bballman, it sounds like you were very active in your son's recruiting process. Will you please tell us when your son started the recruiting process and what year in high school he received his first offer. I think a lot of people do not realize how much time goes into this recruiting process. Unless you are a true blue chip player and everybody knows you, the player needs to work in his craft first and then get a video and then send emails with video links to coaches and then follow up with coaches over phone or email and lastly get in front of the desired school as much as possible. |
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DecaturDad
619 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2015 : 11:13:52
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quote:
Originally posted by leftfielddad
bballman, it sounds like you were very active in your son's recruiting process. Will you please tell us when your son started the recruiting process and what year in high school he received his first offer. I think a lot of people do not realize how much time goes into this recruiting process. Unless you are a true blue chip player and everybody knows you, the player needs to work in his craft first and then get a video and then send emails with video links to coaches and then follow up with coaches over phone or email and lastly get in front of the desired school as much as possible.
I am also interested in hearing bballman's timeline. My son is now a junior. He attended a UGA prospect camp as a freshman. Not that we expected anyone to notice him..But is gave him a chance to experience playing with coaches taking notes. I have a picture of him playing first with a coach holding a clip board 20 feet behind him. You have to get past that to be able to preform. He attended his first Perfect Game showcase in December of 10th grade. Fortunately, he received a grade of 9.0
He had his first "unofficial visit" with a school in the early spring of 10th grade. It was not a good fit, academically, so there has not been any followup. This summer, we started really looking at schools. We visited one school un-invited, just to see the campus. (we took a standard school tour.) The school made my son's short list, so we have informally reached out to the coach. Another mid-level D1 saw my son play at Lake Point this summer. My son has been talking with the coach and we have a visit scheduled to go meet the coaching staff and tour the school. Until the coach reached out to us via his travel coach, the school was not on our list. Now, it seems interesting, but who knows what will happen once we get there.
We have a short list of six schools right now. Over the next few months, we plan to reach out to all of them. Some may drop off and others may get added.
One last thing I will mention. My son is not a PO. Good pitchers tend to get picked up first. We have a few on our travel team that verbally committed over the summer before their junior year.
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Edited by - DecaturDad on 08/12/2015 11:46:03 |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2015 : 11:59:37
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quote:
Originally posted by DecaturDad
quote:
Originally posted by leftfielddad
bballman, it sounds like you were very active in your son's recruiting process. Will you please tell us when your son started the recruiting process and what year in high school he received his first offer. I think a lot of people do not realize how much time goes into this recruiting process. Unless you are a true blue chip player and everybody knows you, the player needs to work in his craft first and then get a video and then send emails with video links to coaches and then follow up with coaches over phone or email and lastly get in front of the desired school as much as possible.
Congrats Decaturdad...it is so awesome that your son has some options and that his talent was recognized, I'm sure that grade had to put your mind at ease a bit!
Can you think of anything in particular that made him stand out at his showcase...since he isn't a PO I'm interested in what you think contributed to that grade.
I'm not sure of the PC way to say this so that it doesn't come across as accusing, so let me just say I am NOT talking about DecaturDad's kid or anyone else in particular, but does anyone have any information on if the PG showcases work on a formula, or actual observations. For example, if a player has a 6.9 60 yard time, a 1.95 pop-time, and an OF speed of 90+....does he automatically get a solid score or does he have to prove he can frame/field/catch/bat also? How much of those black and white magical numbers come into play with those scores and how much is a scout REALLY looking at the players tools?
I am also interested in hearing bballman's timeline. My son is now a junior. He attended a UGA prospect camp as a freshman. Not that we expected anyone to notice him..But is gave him a chance to experience playing with coaches taking notes. I have a picture of him playing first with a coach holding a clip board 20 feet behind him. You have to get past that to be able to preform. He attended his first Perfect Game showcase in December of 10th grade. Fortunately, he received a grade of 9.0
He had his first "unofficial visit" with a school in the early spring of 10th grade. It was not a good fit, academically, so there has not been any followup. This summer, we started really looking at schools. We visited one school un-invited, just to see the campus. (we took a standard school tour.) The school made my son's short list, so we have informally reached out to the coach. Another mid-level D1 saw my son play at Lake Point this summer. My son has been talking with the coach and we have a visit scheduled to go meet the coaching staff and tour the school. Until the coach reached out to us via his travel coach, the school was not on our list. Now, it seems interesting, but who knows what will happen once we get there.
We have a short list of six schools right now. Over the next few months, we plan to reach out to all of them. Some may drop off and others may get added.
One last thing I will mention. My son is not a PO. Good pitchers tend to get picked up first. We have a few on our travel team that verbally committed over the summer before their junior year.
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ABC_Baseball
90 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2015 : 12:17:14
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I've been trying to read up and follow a lot of this thread. My kid is young, not even in high school yet. From what I can tell, there are plenty of kids that are sitting on D1 school's rosters that don't have grades of 8 or higher from PG. I just looked at schools like Georgia, Georgia Tech and Vanderbilt. I sorted their rosters and looked at the guys under 6' tall that were not pitchers. A lot of those types of guys don't even have grades from PG. I don't know if that means they were never graded or asked that it not be published.
I've followed football much longer, but from the brief time I've followed baseball I've reached the following conclusion. If you can hit, run a little (6.8 60 yard dash) and have a decent arm 80 mph, you can get a D1 scholarship to a really good school. Maybe not a program that finished top 25 in RPI, but there are plenty of great schools that are further down the list that I would be thrilled about my kid getting a scholarship to.
Jon Jay went to Miami and has done well for himself by normal folk standards and his PG grade was 6.5. Little more recent, Christian Yelich just signed a 49 million dollar deal, his PG score is pretty high, but nothing besides his size really jumps off the chart at you. |
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in_the_know
985 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2015 : 14:22:47
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All,
Several of you are already aware of this site, but for those of you unfamiliar, there is an outstanding site that is a national (far beyond just NWGA) that focuses extensively on the recruiting process for high school and even JUCO kids looking to get on with a 4 year school. Also provides a wealth of information for draft eligible (and likely) kids. While this site is invaluable for many of the lower rungs on the ladder, this other site has much greater depth in the recruiting process and I'd recommend anyone at or nearing that phase to check it out.
High School Baseball Web
http://community.hsbaseballweb.com/home
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rippit
667 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2015 : 14:26:14
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caco3girl - I wondered the same thing you did. Your message got screwed up a little, so I copied and pasted it here:
******I'm not sure of the PC way to say this so that it doesn't come across as accusing, so let me just say I am NOT talking about DecaturDad's kid or anyone else in particular, but does anyone have any information on if the PG showcases work on a formula, or actual observations. For example, if a player has a 6.9 60 yard time, a 1.95 pop-time, and an OF speed of 90+....does he automatically get a solid score or does he have to prove he can frame/field/catch/bat also? How much of those black and white magical numbers come into play with those scores and how much is a scout REALLY looking at the players tools?******
I'm wondering like you if there isn't a formula used to generate those numbers. If you look at this link http://www.perfectgame.org/Rankings/UncommittedProspects.aspx
it seems like if one area falls short but you are really tall, or fast or whatever, then your grade goes up. I for one looked for a kid roughly the same size as mine, same speed, same arm speed etc. and guestimated where he might land when evaluated by PG. And like ABC, I too have wondered about some roster additions to certain schools. What ABC may or may not know, is that a kid that runs a 6.8, throws 80 and hits - REALLY HITS - is RARE. Mine can hit and throw, but doesn't run a 6.8 and doesn't pitch. No D1 schools are looking at him.
As to the lack of PG grades, you are correct. PG seems to be more prevalent in certain states, but for those three schools you mentioned not to have PG grades on all those guys is surprising unless they are from outside the southeast.
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Edited by - rippit on 08/12/2015 15:03:07 |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2015 : 15:03:15
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Well, not sure if my timeline is the best one to go by or not. Looking back, I don't necessarily think we did things the most efficient way or not. I think I may have been a little too confident in my son's abilities and we did not attack the market as aggressively as we probably could or should have. We depended a little too much on his on field performances at WWBA events and showcases and did not really aggressively target schools. I think he wound up in a very good situation given what we were working with and he has been very happy with his school and team over the last 3, going into his 4th year.
He played on a team that played in a lot of college showcase tournaments when he was 15 & 16. Played at Auburn and South Carolina and pitched well in both tournaments. At South Carolina, when he was 15, he pitched a complete game shut out over the Parkview HS team. At Auburn, he was one out/one error away from a complete game shut out. He did not get any attention that I remember from either one of those performances. In September of his Sophomore year, he did his first PG showcase. Was throwing 86 mph and received an 8 as his PG grade. In December of his Junior year, he did his second and last PG showcase. Still throwing 86 and received an 8.5 as his PG grade. I believe it was during his Junior year in the fall, he went to a showcase at a local HS with a number of coaches present. He got some attention there, but I think most were looking for seniors. As a result of that showcase, he got an invite to a camp at Georgia State. It was a personal invite by the RC, not an email invite. They were very interested in him. He did very well at the camp throwing as high as 89, but interest dwindled when they started asking about his grades. He was under a 3.0 and it kind of took him out of the running. He had a very good summer after his Junior year. He pitched 53 innings with a 0.92 ERA and 66 Ks with 11 BBs. Not to brag, but we thought he'd garner a bunch of interest from that. Not so much, unfortunately. During that summer, he did the Ga Dugout Club Top 100. A coach from his current school contacted him, came to see him at a WWBA event, then we went to that school with his summer team and they made an offer. Went to one other camp for a different D2 school. They also offered him, but he liked the first school better.
There are three things which I think limited my son in the recruiting process. Two of those are things we could have done something about. One, there is nothing we could have done. The one thing is his height. His is just 5'10" and a RHP. Unless you are spectacular, not a lot of guys climbing over themselves for that. Most big schools are looking for guys 6'2" + as RHP. One of the things that hurt him was his grades. I can't stress enough how many more options a player will have if he has good grades. One of the first questions ANY recruiters asked him was "what is your GPA and what are your SAT/ACT scores"? The better your grades are the more doors will be opened. And the last thing is that we just didn't really market him enough. We figured his reputation and performance would speak for itself. I guess in the long run it did, but I can't help but think that he could have had more opportunities if we had pursued things more aggressively.
Don't get me wrong, I am and he is very happy where he wound up going and he got a nice scholarship to play baseball. The school is in-state which makes it cheaper and close enough to go to almost all his games. It is far enough where he is not coming home every weekend, but close enough where it doesn't kill us going there to visit and watch baseball. Really a pretty optimal situation.
So, there you go. Some ways we did it along with some mistakes I think we made. Hope this helps some. |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2015 : 15:17:49
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Thanks for the assist there rippit, no idea what happened to my post.
ABC people must pay to attend a PG showcase and to get a grade, I think it is about $600+ for them to grade you...not everyone has that cash. No cash, no PG grade. Also, PG showcases are done in FL, GA, TX, CA...and maybe just a couple other places. If your not near one of those places you may opt for just showing up to a schools camp, or writing the coach directly and sending film. I have heard at least 40 different stories on how people got recruited, there obviously is not one right way. However, being in GA, less than 60 minutes from ECB and Lakepoint I'm not sure why most of us here in NWBA land aren't going the PG route...just my opinion. |
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in_the_know
985 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2015 : 15:36:45
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quote:
Originally posted by rippit
caco3girl -
As to the lack of PG grades, you are correct. PG seems to be more prevalent in certain states, but for those three schools you mentioned not to have PG grades on all those guys is surprising unless they are from outside the southeast.
Understand that PG grades come from their showcases, not participating in a tournament. My son had played in nearly 15 PG tournaments before ever participating in one of their showcases. He was given a grade after the showcase (along with the showcase write-up, etc). It's not uncommon for players to be very well known from the tournament circuit, gain attention and commit without ever participating in a showcase. My son had three D1 offers before his first showcase and several others after. Had he wanted, he could have accepted an offer without ever attending a showcase (and hence, getting a PG Grade). |
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Renegade44
211 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2015 : 15:41:44
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PG rates you on tangible items from what I can tell.
What is tangible? Speed 6.8 = good high rating. Guarantees an 8 in my opinion. Hint watch some videos of rated 8's. Speed must be their only tool, cause video says it sure isn't fielding or swing technique.
Height? Tangible too. Over 6' add .5 to rating. 6'2 add 1.0
Again watch the skill videos for the clear picture.
Got speed? Got Height? Great you stand 7.5 to 8.5 rated.
Next up lets roll you some ground balls and watch you field them and throw? Now what does that tell you really? Nothing tangible there to even rate. Should you even be there if you can't pick up the directed roller and toss it across the field as hard as you can?
Same theory with hitting. Can you bomb away on a right down middle slow bp pitch? Yes? Great. I hope so. Nothing tangible to rate except maybe form and distance. Still all subjective though. Its BP.
I guess look proficient in BP and fielding tiddlywinks gets another .5 if you have the first 8.0 to 8.5 locked up by the measureable tangibles.
Finish up with throw velocity. 85 adds some maybe points. 90 adds some to get in the 9.0+ area.
You could take any reasonable player there running 6.8, 6'2 tall, slinging a ball 85 and walk away with a minimum 8.5 rating if not 9.0
Please deposit another $650 for the next event and work to bump the rating up.
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DecaturDad
619 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2015 : 15:52:00
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| Also realize that once your grade is set, it will not change until you do another showcase. Some people may only do one earlier in high school as a way to gauge where they stand, then not do another one. That could explain the low grades for some D1 commits. Also, bballman's comment on grades. I could not agree more. My son is not a top student, so many top schools are out of the question. No matter how good you are at baseball, you still need to get admitted. |
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whits23
596 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2015 : 15:58:45
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| PG often over ranks kids because they get paid to rank them. No one wants to pay for a bad ranking |
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in_the_know
985 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2015 : 16:15:00
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quote:
Originally posted by DecaturDad
Also realize that once your grade is set, it will not change until you do another showcase. Some people may only do one earlier in high school as a way to gauge where they stand, then not do another one. That could explain the low grades for some D1 commits. Also, bballman's comment on grades. I could not agree more. My son is not a top student, so many top schools are out of the question. No matter how good you are at baseball, you still need to get admitted.
That's a great point. Consider Tyler Stephenson out of Kennesaw Mountain HS. 11th overall pick in this year's draft. He did two PG showcases, first in 2011 and graded an 8.5. Second in 2012 and graded a 9.5. You'd think the 11th pick overall would be graded a 10, but since his last showcase was three years earlier, the grade stood.
The real point is that having a grade is pretty much irrelevant to most scouts. They aren't going to a showcase, watching talent with their own eyes, then awaiting a grade to see if their feelings are confirmed. If they like what they see, they'll pursue it. It doesn't matter if they see it at a PG showcase, HS game or a Scoutz showcase. Obviously some showcases are better (and better attended than others), so you need to do some homework before investing. As someone stated earlier, there are many routes to finding a team at the next level if that's what your son desires. Showcases are one route, but simply attending a showcase is not guarantee of success.
IMHO, the key is having a plan. Have a realistic view of your son's abilities (high, mid, low DI, DII, etc). Ensure your academic house is in order. Do your homework on the schools that you may have in interest in. Narrow your list and begin to pursue those schools. Unless your son is a highly sought after talent, it will take some good old fashioned hard work on your part but it is a very achievable goal.
Seriously, if you haven't checked out the link I posted earlier in this thread, check it out. A wealth of information on the subject. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2015 : 16:23:14
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BTW, here is PG's latest Rating System for grades. It has been updated since DecaturDad posted his and this one seems much more reflective of the grades relative to where they may belong in the recruiting hierarchy.
Perfect Game USA's Player Rating System
10 Potential very high draft pick and/or Elite level college prospect
9 Potential top 10 round pick and/or highest level college prospect
8 Potential draft pick and/or excellent college prospect
7 College prospect, possible future draft pick with development
6 Potential college prospect
5 Possible College prospect and/or possible HS varsity
4 HS JV
3 Possible HS JV
2 No prospect at this time
1 The game is too dangerous
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2015 : 16:30:40
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If you look at PG's FAQ's page, there is the question:
What is evaluated at a PG Showcase?
Answer:
A. The most important things to evaluate on any player are his physical tools. For a position player, that is his hitting ability, fielding ability, speed/range, power potential and arm strength. For a pitcher, it is evaluating his delivery and arm action, along with his selection of pitches (i.e. fastball, curveball, changeup, etc.). A scout is also evaluating how much better he thinks a player is getting with normal growth and hard work (i.e. his projectability) for his body type and athleticism. Attention is definitely paid to a player’s intangibles as much as possible (i.e. hustle, character on and off the field, etc.). One thing that is not especially important is performance, because anything can happen at a short showcase event.
Notice part of the equation is what the PG scout thinks the player may "project" to be. If they think he will become better through normal growth and practice, their grade may be a little higher than what his skill set shows at the time. |
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in_the_know
985 Posts |
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SSBuckeye
575 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2015 : 08:31:36
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quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
quote:
Originally posted by DecaturDad
quote:
Originally posted by leftfielddad
bballman, it sounds like you were very active in your son's recruiting process. Will you please tell us when your son started the recruiting process and what year in high school he received his first offer. I think a lot of people do not realize how much time goes into this recruiting process. Unless you are a true blue chip player and everybody knows you, the player needs to work in his craft first and then get a video and then send emails with video links to coaches and then follow up with coaches over phone or email and lastly get in front of the desired school as much as possible.
Congrats Decaturdad...it is so awesome that your son has some options and that his talent was recognized, I'm sure that grade had to put your mind at ease a bit!
Can you think of anything in particular that made him stand out at his showcase...since he isn't a PO I'm interested in what you think contributed to that grade.
I'm not sure of the PC way to say this so that it doesn't come across as accusing, so let me just say I am NOT talking about DecaturDad's kid or anyone else in particular, but does anyone have any information on if the PG showcases work on a formula, or actual observations. For example, if a player has a 6.9 60 yard time, a 1.95 pop-time, and an OF speed of 90+....does he automatically get a solid score or does he have to prove he can frame/field/catch/bat also? How much of those black and white magical numbers come into play with those scores and how much is a scout REALLY looking at the players tools?
I am also interested in hearing bballman's timeline. My son is now a junior. He attended a UGA prospect camp as a freshman. Not that we expected anyone to notice him..But is gave him a chance to experience playing with coaches taking notes. I have a picture of him playing first with a coach holding a clip board 20 feet behind him. You have to get past that to be able to preform. He attended his first Perfect Game showcase in December of 10th grade. Fortunately, he received a grade of 9.0
He had his first "unofficial visit" with a school in the early spring of 10th grade. It was not a good fit, academically, so there has not been any followup. This summer, we started really looking at schools. We visited one school un-invited, just to see the campus. (we took a standard school tour.) The school made my son's short list, so we have informally reached out to the coach. Another mid-level D1 saw my son play at Lake Point this summer. My son has been talking with the coach and we have a visit scheduled to go meet the coaching staff and tour the school. Until the coach reached out to us via his travel coach, the school was not on our list. Now, it seems interesting, but who knows what will happen once we get there.
We have a short list of six schools right now. Over the next few months, we plan to reach out to all of them. Some may drop off and others may get added.
One last thing I will mention. My son is not a PO. Good pitchers tend to get picked up first. We have a few on our travel team that verbally committed over the summer before their junior year.
If you ever see DecaturDad's son in person, you'd know why he got that rating! Beast! Surprised it wasn't higher, frankly. |
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Critical Mass
277 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2015 : 09:36:26
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[quote]Originally posted by bballman
There are three things which I think limited my son in the recruiting process. Two of those are things we could have done something about. One, there is nothing we could have done. The one thing is his height. His is just 5'10" and a RHP. Unless you are spectacular, not a lot of guys climbing over themselves for that. Most big schools are looking for guys 6'2" + as RHP. One of the things that hurt him was his grades. I can't stress enough how many more options a player will have if he has good grades. One of the first questions ANY recruiters asked him was "what is your GPA and what are your SAT/ACT scores"? The better your grades are the more doors will be opened. And the last thing is that we just didn't really market him enough. We figured his reputation and performance would speak for itself. I guess in the long run it did, but I can't help but think that he could have had more opportunities if we had pursued things more aggressively./quote]
Ditto, thanks for sharing that nugget of wisdom and being open about it. I have to say my son has the grades with potential to do better at times. what he doesnt have is the size as you mentioned and we didnt "market" him much either, meaning he never attended a showcase of any sort and was never graded. He continually got better, it's that simple...and that afforded him the choices to play at several D1 Acc and Sec schools. He chose ACC. I think the Scoutz organization does a solid job giving kids a chance to participate and be seen, especially kids outside of metro atlanta, where the travel ball scene is markedly different and less competitive. All organizations that sponsor showcases are in it to profit and it sounds like Scoutz probably knows they took the $$ over losing $$ and reducing the pool of kids to a better level to been seen and graded. |
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Someone please explain it to me
