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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
 Posted - 08/25/2015 : 11:18:40
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quote:
Originally posted by AllStar
quote:
Originally posted by turntwo
So... I think James Harrison may have said it best:
"I came home to find out that my boys received two trophies for nothing, participation trophies! While I am very proud of my boys for everything they do and will encourage them till the day I die, these trophies will be given back until they EARN a real trophy. I'm sorry I'm not sorry for believing that everything in life should be earned and I'm not about to raise two boys to be men by making them believe that they are entitled to something just because they tried their best...cause sometimes your best is not enough, and that should drive you to want to do better...not cry and whine until somebody gives you something to shut u up and keep you happy. #harrisonfamilyvalues"
The highlighted part is my NEW favorite all-time quote!!!
Did they cry and whine until they got a trophy? I never read that anywhere. It's not their fault that participation trophies are handed out at end of season parties. Maybe they shouldn't participate in the post-game juice box/snacks because, you know, the boss doesn't give you a Rice Krispie treat just for showing up and doing your job. smh
Maybe he can take the video of all his cheap shots and explain to them why they are OK.
Typical Steeler bs.
LOLOLOL!!!!! Seriously, I looked up some of those and WOW! |
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Newbie BB Mom
141 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2015 : 11:37:54
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I seriously do not see what all the griping is about. Since my kid started playing travel ball I have not seen any evidence of participation awards. Every trophy, t-shirt, or award my kid has received as a travel ball player has been earned. Even his spot on said travel teams has been earned. Are you all playing in an alternate universe where all the travel teams hand out participation trophies? Competition is alive and well in baseball, just not in ordinary rec ball. And that's just fine.
I agree with CaCo, there is no need to wrench the participation trophy out of a 6-year-old rec ball player's hands. Plenty of time when he's older to introduce him to the dog-eat-dog world of competitive baseball and the fact of life that sometimes our best effort will not be enough. |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2015 : 13:30:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Newbie BB Mom
I seriously do not see what all the griping is about. Since my kid started playing travel ball I have not seen any evidence of participation awards. Every trophy, t-shirt, or award my kid has received as a travel ball player has been earned. Even his spot on said travel teams has been earned. Are you all playing in an alternate universe where all the travel teams hand out participation trophies? Competition is alive and well in baseball, just not in ordinary rec ball. And that's just fine.
I agree with CaCo, there is no need to wrench the participation trophy out of a 6-year-old rec ball player's hands. Plenty of time when he's older to introduce him to the dog-eat-dog world of competitive baseball and the fact of life that sometimes our best effort will not be enough.
Technically speaking this article wasn't talking about travel ball, where you are absolutely right, you only get trophies if they are earned. There are however rec programs that go up into the teens...and sadly there are trophies awarded every year just for participating.
My son use to play rec ball out of Hobgood, I liked their system. Only first and second place teams got actual trophies, the rest of the "participation trophies" were actually small metals on a necklace. I thought that was a nice compromise that the kid got something to remember their 9u baseball season...BUT...it wasn't a trophy. |
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turntwo
955 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2015 : 13:36:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Newbie BB Mom
Even his spot on said travel teams has been earned.
Is EVERY players spot on the team "earned"??? Because, if so, I'd pay DOUBLE to be on that team... ZERO carry overs from year over prior, always a clean slate. ALL must re-EARN their position every season? ZERO dad's involved with the team or ANY decision making processes.... THAT situation sounds like a "alternate universe"...
Seriously though, as Rippit said,
quote:
At some point, schools started putting pressure on head coaches to reward little Johnny if daddy was a big booster. Those daddies must not have ever won anything legitimately, so they decided to control the future and and their kid and start buying success for lil Johnny. So the infamous "coaches award" was born and daddy ball began. Ultimately, the other stuff got phased out and then all little kids everywhere started getting a trophy just to show up.
The point of my original post, and the Harrison quote, is parents quit thinking/feeling their son's are ENTITLED to anything. Accept the coach's decisions, and respect your role. Want a better role? Earn it. (Or pitch a fit, feel entitled, go do daddy ball, whatever). Harrison, for good, bad, or indifferent, said what most feel is 'taboo' in the competitive sports arena these days.... The entitlement mindset of kids (and I'm including parents as well). In the real world, there are winners and losers. In the workforce, you're promoted if you EARN It-- not because daddy bought it. Not because mommy complained enough for it. And while the adage of, "Hard work pays off", well, in reality, sometimes it does, but ya know what, sometimes it doesn't. No matter how hard you tried, or work for something, sometimes your best just isn't good enough. Again, it's called life. |
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ballsandbats
85 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2015 : 14:26:10
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| Interestingly, UTrip started this thing last season (i guess that's when they started it) in the 7U and maybe other divisions, where they have the upper flight and lower flight champions. Other organizations do it too. I was particularly bothered when, one weekend, my team did not play well enough to make the upper flight. We went on to win the lower flight. That's fine and dandy. Out of ten teams, my kids finished fifth, right? Wrong. They finished "first" and received first place rings. This REALLY bothered me. They received the same rings as the kids who finished first in the upper flight. One of my kids screamed, "we won the championship." We had to have a teaching moment. I would argue that "participation trophies" at the end of season banquet as a symbol of participation are fine and do nothing to warp kids. First place rings for finishing in sixth place have the real potential to harm. My team did award superlative trophies at the end of the season. But each kid received one. Now before I get backlash, each superlative was tied to the kids' contribution. So there was an MVP, just like there was a good sport award. My son won defensive player of the year. He wanted MVP. I told him he'd have to earn it. So, hopefully, there was something positive out of it. This is a very interesting subject! |
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Newbie BB Mom
141 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2015 : 17:35:50
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quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
quote:
Originally posted by Newbie BB Mom
I seriously do not see what all the griping is about. Since my kid started playing travel ball I have not seen any evidence of participation awards. Every trophy, t-shirt, or award my kid has received as a travel ball player has been earned. Even his spot on said travel teams has been earned. Are you all playing in an alternate universe where all the travel teams hand out participation trophies? Competition is alive and well in baseball, just not in ordinary rec ball. And that's just fine.
I agree with CaCo, there is no need to wrench the participation trophy out of a 6-year-old rec ball player's hands. Plenty of time when he's older to introduce him to the dog-eat-dog world of competitive baseball and the fact of life that sometimes our best effort will not be enough.
Technically speaking this article wasn't talking about travel ball, where you are absolutely right, you only get trophies if they are earned. There are however rec programs that go up into the teens...and sadly there are trophies awarded every year just for participating.
I was actually referring to the folks who complain here, not the article.
You would think the world of competitive sports was disappearing before our very eyes the way some people carry on. In fact, at least with respect to baseball (and perhaps most organized youth sports), it has probably never been more competitive than it is right now. Instead of "coddling" our young players, we're pushing them to compete aggressively at younger and younger ages, as evidenced by the fact that there is now a 6U folder in this discussion forum. In another year or two there will be a 5U folder because we must protect our kindergarten baseball prodigies from the damaging effects of participation trophies and warm fuzzy coaches who praise effort over results. I'm even waiting for the travel tee ball teams. Surely they are coming.
As for rec park programs, they fill a need the travel ball world can't by introducing young players to the sport in an environment that focuses on fun and learning. At some point, serious baseball players move past that and into travel ball, which is okay.
But rec programs also fill another need that has nothing to do with travel ball. We get in our "travel ball bubble" and forget that there are kids who just want to play baseball for fun, without having to worry about who is better than who. Obviously, most of us here aren't in that world anymore, but that doesn't mean there shouldn't be a place for it, even for kids who are 15 or 16. Perhaps that 16 year old kid that plays baseball at his local rec park is a high school math olympiad champion, or a track star, or sits first chair violin in his school orchestra, or is going to be a National Merit Scholar next year. He competes in other ways, but plays baseball for fun. That is okay, too. |
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Newbie BB Mom
141 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2015 : 17:46:15
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quote:
Originally posted by turntwo
quote:
Originally posted by Newbie BB Mom
Even his spot on said travel teams has been earned.
Is EVERY players spot on the team "earned"??? Because, if so, I'd pay DOUBLE to be on that team... ZERO carry overs from year over prior, always a clean slate. ALL must re-EARN their position every season? ZERO dad's involved with the team or ANY decision making processes.... THAT situation sounds like a "alternate universe"...
Well, I can't speak for others, but my son went to a tryout and then a coach (who was not his dad and who he did not know from Adam's housecat) called and asked him to be on the team. I would say that is earning your spot.
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2015 : 08:56:37
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quote:
Originally posted by turntwo
quote:
Originally posted by Newbie BB Mom
Even his spot on said travel teams has been earned.
Is EVERY players spot on the team "earned"??? Because, if so, I'd pay DOUBLE to be on that team... ZERO carry overs from year over prior, always a clean slate. ALL must re-EARN their position every season? ZERO dad's involved with the team or ANY decision making processes.... THAT situation sounds like a "alternate universe"...
I have heard of an organization like this. Every year all kids must re-earn their spots and they are coached by paid coaching. That makes it expensive, but as you said, you would pay double for that. My kid has never played for them but I know many of their staff, please email me if you want the name. |
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BBall123
395 Posts |
Posted - 08/31/2015 : 10:55:54
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I agree with you here Newbie Mom. At the higher levels, you perform or you sit. Elite travel ball is a very competitive business. Does not matter what mommy or Daddy says. You already know what your primary position is.
At younger age groups I would say, Have fun, be competitive. Listen to the coach with a "BUT". Realistically evaluate your kid, discuss with him, compare him to others that are similar. Get a good grip on who HE is and what he can do. Then don't let anyone pull you off of that until you are either proven right or wrong. There is a point where you have to believe in your son and stick behind him 1000% no matter who says what. If you (your son and you) don't have that faith and commitment I don't think you can make it through. Coaches, Program Directors, Organization owners have responsibility's, those responsibility's create agenda's. I just feel like you have to know your kid and stay on course, don't let someone that may not have your kids best interest as his 100% goal as opposed to his business or his sponsors, his boosters etc. take you off your course that you with proper evaluation know is right for your kid. There are a lot of coaches, organizations, programs, teams out there, they are concerned about themselves and their businesses. Not saying they don't care about the kids, but what comes first their business and livelihood or your kid? Its very competitive and you must believe in yourself to be able to compete.quote:
Originally posted by Newbie BB Mom
I seriously do not see what all the griping is about. Since my kid started playing travel ball I have not seen any evidence of participation awards. Every trophy, t-shirt, or award my kid has received as a travel ball player has been earned. Even his spot on said travel teams has been earned. Are you all playing in an alternate universe where all the travel teams hand out participation trophies? Competition is alive and well in baseball, just not in ordinary rec ball. And that's just fine.
I agree with CaCo, there is no need to wrench the participation trophy out of a 6-year-old rec ball player's hands. Plenty of time when he's older to introduce him to the dog-eat-dog world of competitive baseball and the fact of life that sometimes our best effort will not be enough.
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Edited by - BBall123 on 08/31/2015 11:35:08 |
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Newbie BB Mom
141 Posts |
Posted - 08/31/2015 : 12:35:34
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quote:
Originally posted by BBall123
I agree with you here Newbie Mom. At the higher levels, you perform or you sit. Elite travel ball is a very competitive business. Does not matter what mommy or Daddy says. You already know what your primary position is.
At younger age groups I would say, Have fun, be competitive. Listen to the coach with a "BUT". Realistically evaluate your kid, discuss with him, compare him to others that are similar. Get a good grip on who HE is and what he can do. Then don't let anyone pull you off of that until you are either proven right or wrong. There is a point where you have to believe in your son and stick behind him 1000% no matter who says what. If you (your son and you) don't have that faith and commitment I don't think you can make it through. Coaches, Program Directors, Organization owners have responsibility's, those responsibility's create agenda's. I just feel like you have to know your kid and stay on course, don't let someone that may not have your kids best interest as his 100% goal as opposed to his business or his sponsors, his boosters etc. take you off your course that you with proper evaluation know is right for your kid. There are a lot of coaches, organizations, programs, teams out there, they are concerned about themselves and their businesses. Not saying they don't care about the kids, but what comes first their business and livelihood or your kid? Its very competitive and you must believe in yourself to be able to compete.quote:
Originally posted by Newbie BB Mom
I seriously do not see what all the griping is about. Since my kid started playing travel ball I have not seen any evidence of participation awards. Every trophy, t-shirt, or award my kid has received as a travel ball player has been earned. Even his spot on said travel teams has been earned. Are you all playing in an alternate universe where all the travel teams hand out participation trophies? Competition is alive and well in baseball, just not in ordinary rec ball. And that's just fine.
I agree with CaCo, there is no need to wrench the participation trophy out of a 6-year-old rec ball player's hands. Plenty of time when he's older to introduce him to the dog-eat-dog world of competitive baseball and the fact of life that sometimes our best effort will not be enough.
Thanks BBall123, voices like yours and bballman's are much needed here to add perspective from those who have already gone through it and not just survived, but thrived. (Good luck to your son going forward, although it sounds like he doesn't need it!) |
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turntwo
955 Posts |
Posted - 08/31/2015 : 15:49:35
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[quote]Originally posted by BBall123
... Realistically evaluate your kid, discuss with him, compare him to others that are similar. Get a good grip on who HE is and what he can do....[quote]
The basis of my entire feeling. It's the 8-12 yr old parents that maybe are not 100% realistic in their evaluation. The one's that make the excuses for their kids not succeeding. You'd be amazed at the number of the next coming of Mike Trout's I hear about, while hanging around a youth tournament. |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 08/31/2015 : 16:22:36
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quote:
Originally posted by turntwo
[quote]Originally posted by BBall123
... Realistically evaluate your kid, discuss with him, compare him to others that are similar. Get a good grip on who HE is and what he can do....[quote]
The basis of my entire feeling. It's the 8-12 yr old parents that maybe are not 100% realistic in their evaluation. The one's that make the excuses for their kids not succeeding. You'd be amazed at the number of the next coming of Mike Trout's I hear about, while hanging around a youth tournament.
AGREED! And the excuses when that kid does mess up are absurd! The top 3 are:
1. He's got a new glove" = Um, then why didn't you have it broken in, practice with it, borrow another kids....etc?
2. "The umpire hates our team" = Um, 8 other kids seem to have gotten on base just fine!
3. "The coaches kid plays position X and that's my kids spot so that's why he doesn't play much" = There are 8 other spots on that field, if your kid was really the next Mike Trout he would be playing one of those!
It has become a BAD youth habit for the parent to provide the player with the justification of why they did poorly that day. Me, I'd rather tell my kid that Johnny was better at practice so Johnny got the start! Or my personal favorite that my son adores "Yup, Ump's strike zone was WAY off...I figured that out during strikes 1 and 2, why didn't you?" |
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turntwo
955 Posts |
Posted - 08/31/2015 : 17:04:03
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quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
AGREED! And the excuses when that kid does mess up are absurd! The top 3 are:
1. He's got a new glove" = Um, then why didn't you have it broken in, practice with it, borrow another kids....etc?
2. "The umpire hates our team" = Um, 8 other kids seem to have gotten on base just fine!
3. "The coaches kid plays position X and that's my kids spot so that's why he doesn't play much" = There are 8 other spots on that field, if your kid was really the next Mike Trout he would be playing one of those!
It has become a BAD youth habit for the parent to provide the player with the justification of why they did poorly that day. Me, I'd rather tell my kid that Johnny was better at practice so Johnny got the start! Or my personal favorite that my son adores "Yup, Ump's strike zone was WAY off...I figured that out during strikes 1 and 2, why didn't you?"
OMG, love it! If we start talking parent (or kids') excuses, that could lead to a WHOLE different thread, but now I'll play along...
1. My son is as good, or better, than the other player, but he just doesn't get the opportunity. (What about practice and pool play games, where he's fielding a ripe ol' .150...
2. All the coach's kids get 'prime' positions (there's only 2 coaches). What about the rest of the starters?
3. Coach doesn't have confidence in my kid, so my kid doesn't play to his potential. (I SWEAR to God, I've hear those exact words out of a parents mouth).
4. My kid SHOULD be lead-off hitter. (Please do not look up number of times caught stealing or picked off, as this would blow this parents argument out of the water--- can you say baserunning liability?)
5. My kid was the starting 3B, and 3-hole hitter on his previous team!!! He should be here as well. (Don't worry that his previous team was a rec-ball all-star team, and your team is a Major. Please don't let facts get in the way of emotion).
6. My kid is: the fastest, hardest thrower, best glove. (Yet not one is substantiated by a stop-watch, radar gun, or fielding % stat).
7. My son had a great day! He went 2 for 2 at the dish, and struck 4 people out while pitching. (Again, don't look too deep into details, where my son got picked off once, and caught stealing another. And don't look at how he got shelled by the hitters that didn't strikeout, and his errors while on the bump).
I haven't made it to the umps yet. Bad calls will be made. Umps will be inconsistent. And at our age, if you get spanked 13-2, NO number of 'bad calls' will reverse the fact that you got your a$$ handed to you.
That's for the flash back of "excuses". |
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turntwo
955 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2017 : 09:58:19
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| As a new season is gets going, there's some sage advice in this thread. Folks like bballman and HShuler really bring some great perspective. |
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Knowing your role-- when?
