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turntwo
955 Posts |
 Posted - 06/03/2015 : 10:39:41
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At what point do parents FINALLY assume their son's role in this wacky game of baseball?
It seems to be the longer I'm around this sport, the TEAM aspect is becoming more of a thing of the past. WHY? WHY is baseball becoming more and more self-centered and selfish? I hear parents at the parks during tournaments, practices, or even on the board here that seem to SOLELY be worried about lil Johnny. Just him. Where HE is playing. Where HE is batting. Complaining about coach, his choices, other players-- ANYTHING they can instead of accepting coach's decision. How many have over heard (or said it themselves), "It's ok son, we lost because of him or him, not you, you did great!" Really? Did he do "great"? Perfect at the plate and in the field? Could he have done more? Seems self-centered and selfish. Me, me, me, my son, my son, my son.
At what age, do mom and dad 1- take off the rose-colored biased glasses, and 2- accept that coach is attempting to put lil Johnny where he BEST helps, or least hurts THE TEAM? If Johnny has a natural ability to track fly balls, and has the speed of a Cheetah where would a knowledgeable coach put him? Center field? I'd say so, but mom/dad complain that while that's where he's the greatest assest, that position is NOT as "premier" or doesn't warrant enough bragging rights for mom and dad.
Now, I get the argument of "he's my son, if I don't watch out and try to help him who will?"... I get it. And, I'm also as competitive as the next person, and may not always agree with a coach's choice, whether it involve my son or not-- such as if a team has 3-4 viable options at a position, but the coach continues to go to player A time after time, and player A continues to hemorrhage errors, it's like come on coach-- what's the definition of insanity?
I guess I've just always been where 1- I've never tried to influence a coach to position or bat or start my kid in ANY sport (baseball, football, basketball). He earns where he plays, he accepts and assumes his role, and we embrace that and help him become the best he can within that role. 2- I've always told my son's coaches, "whatever you think coach, where ever you see him contributing". Am I a rarity?
Someone posted yesterday, and it REALLY encompassed how I feel about my son-- it was something like, 'I let everyone else compliment and build my son up, it's my job to keep my son humble'-- I love this statement and wish more and more parents followed it. Nobody likes the bragger that ALL you do is talk about how amazing your son is, even after he goes 0-3 with 3K's and 5 errors in the game.
Know and accept your role on the team. Embrace it. The best teams I see on the fields today, aren't the teams full of "entitled" kids, who's parents think they are God's gift, but rather a team full of kids SUPPORTING one another, not worried about individual stats, but rather, how they can best support their team in their ROLE coach has placed them!!!
Rant over. |
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LittleDawg
91 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2015 : 13:04:05
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Nail---->>Head!
Awesome post. Parents are overly concerned about how much playing time Little Johnny is getting and where he is batting in the lineup rather than caring if he is actually developing. The Team concept is non existent and they don't realize that what they believe is "protecting" is actually doing more harm than good. If you are going to play tournament ball, you better learn to deal with adversity. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2015 : 14:34:20
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I love this post turntwo. Not much more I can say other than I hope a lot of people read it and take it to heart.
I can remember back when my son was playing pre-HS. There were times he would come ask me why wasn't he batting higher in the order. I asked him - "What's your batting average?" He answered and my reply was - "You need to get that up and coach will move you up then". He agreed. The kids need a does of reality.
My son is a pitcher. He would much rather his team win than him pitch good. He pitched an elimination game in the NCAA D2 regionals last year. He went 7 1/3 innings giving up 2 runs, 1 earned. Relief pitcher came in and started to give up runs, putting us behind in the game. I had parents coming up to me saying how good he pitched. My response was, "He's not going to care unless we win the game". That's how he feels about it. It wouldn't have mattered to him if he pitched good if we lost. He would have been totally bummed out. Sure, he would have appreciated that he did well, but it wouldn't have helped the loss.
To answer your question - At what age does it change? It all depends on the parents and the kid. To be honest, I think the better the kid, the less the parents are like that. It's the kids who are borderline that the parents are always looking to boost their kids up in other's eyes and try to blame others for the team failures. Let the kid's performance speak for itself. No matter how good an individual performs, they could ALWAYS do better. Instill THAT in your kid and he will be well on the way to taking responsibility for himself and try to improve his game and not blame others. |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2015 : 15:58:05
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Turntwo...I agree and disagree, I know everyone is shocked by this!
1. I agree it is 100% wrong to label any child as being the cause of a loss...it is a team sport and everyone contributes to a win and everyone contributes to a loss. HOWEVER, I don't think it is unfair to tell a pitcher who threw 75% strikes, no walks, and no home runs that the 12-1 loss had nothing to do with his pitching. Sometimes the team just doesn't back up the pitcher, there shouldn't be anything wrong in saying that.
2. I agree it is the coaches choice on where to put the players because he likely has a plan that us parents are just not educated enough to see. I disagree that a kid under 14u should be playing just one position...do I know the next best position, nope...but below 14u is about learning and you can't learn by being stuck in Right Field or on the bench every single game...hence why I have told people if your kid is playing less than 30% of the time he is on the wrong team.
3. During the actual season I tend to shut up about where I think my kid should play, especially since each coach seems to see something different in him. However, if my 12u kid had the ability to stop balls better than any third basemen we have been playing, and there was a decent back up for his primary position, I would be disappointed if my son was not given the chance to play 3B at least once because the coach doesn't see him being able to play there...the pigeon holing of children based on what the coach thinks their ability might be without actually seeing if they could play a position would affect if we stayed with that team, but would not be voiced DURING the season. This is of course for under 14u.
I think I have pretty much the same attitude of "whatever you think coach, where ever you see him contributing"...and I have heard the parents who think Johnny should be playing such and such a spot...but I think this is another of those great divide situations. 14u and up should have coaches that know the game inside and out and can make those judgement calls on a kids body type/skills...but below 14u I think many things are open for interpretation and the biggest variable is who is growing faster than everyone else. Do you want the 85# kid on the mound or do you want the 145# kid on the mound? Yeah, sometimes it is a no brainer...but what if the 85# kid has 3 older brothers that are pitchers and a dad who was a MLB pitcher...what he doesn't get ANY pitcher training at 12u because he's still small? That doesn't seem right either. |
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whits23
596 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2015 : 16:37:13
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| about the same time they stop making excuses for why he got out 3x and made 5 errors. |
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hshuler
1074 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2015 : 18:03:55
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Great points by all...and as usual bballman, we are on the same page.
Quick example - My son made the choice recently to go to one of his best friend's b-day party rather than a group bp session...and before I could get it out of my mouth, he said "I know, I know...if I don't perform, I'll sit." That was music to my ears.
There have always been certain things that I refused to put up with from an early age (like crying when he struck out) so we don't have those issues. They follow our lead as parents, so he makes it about the team because I've always made it about the team. |
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Footballforsanity
14 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2015 : 20:59:55
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Great coaching is out there and hard to find these days in all sports, especially baseball. It's usually dugouts full of dads, especially in the younger ages. But an experienced great coach that is or isn't a parent solves pretty much all the issues brought up in the parent circles. And yes the better the athlete the better the experience on most teams, usually. But if you have a parent that thinks their athlete is the next 3 sport star at the D1 level, all you can do is... "smile and wave boys, smile and wave..."  |
Edited by - Footballforsanity on 06/03/2015 21:24:22 |
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turntwo
955 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2015 : 09:43:07
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quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
1. I agree it is 100% wrong to label any child as being the cause of a loss...it is a team sport and everyone contributes to a win and everyone contributes to a loss. HOWEVER, I don't think it is unfair to tell a pitcher who threw 75% strikes, no walks, and no home runs that the 12-1 loss had nothing to do with his pitching. Sometimes the team just doesn't back up the pitcher, there shouldn't be anything wrong in saying that.
Did he do EVERYTHING right? How was his hitting? Could have have started a rally, kept it going, or did he kill a rally hitting? "Strikes" are vague, were they down in the zone, or was he grooving batting practice? Every player (even professionals) can do more... Sure, errors behind a pitcher stink, and really a pitcher can't do anything about them, but again, P can keep the ball down, locate better, etc, and/or contribute at the dish. Saying "it's not your fault" just irks me.
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
2. I agree it is the coaches choice on where to put the players because he likely has a plan that us parents are just not educated enough to see. I disagree that a kid under 14u should be playing just one position...do I know the next best position, nope...but below 14u is about learning and you can't learn by being stuck in Right Field or on the bench every single game...hence why I have told people if your kid is playing less than 30% of the time he is on the wrong team.
3. During the actual season I tend to shut up about where I think my kid should play, especially since each coach seems to see something different in him. However, if my 12u kid had the ability to stop balls better than any third basemen we have been playing, and there was a decent back up for his primary position, I would be disappointed if my son was not given the chance to play 3B at least once because the coach doesn't see him being able to play there...the pigeon holing of children based on what the coach thinks their ability might be without actually seeing if they could play a position would affect if we stayed with that team, but would not be voiced DURING the season. This is of course for under 14u.
I didn't go into more specifics, but if you have played 15 tournaments and practiced religiously (2-3x's a week) since August, coach has a pretty good idea where everyone BEST HELPS THE TEAM. This is about the team as a totality. Not if your son can MAYBE stop more ground balls than another. Coach moves kids around a LOT, which is fine and dandy, until it's STILL not enough for these entitled parents, and/or wins are sacrificed which upset a different group of parents.
Which brings me to something else... (slightly different topic) CaCO3- if you have two kids that can field at a position relatively equally (one may have a slightly better arm, the other a slightly better glove), but one 'gets' the position-- as in knowing 70% of every 'assignment' this position calls for during any situation. Essentially 'baseball IQ', if you will. The other kid, only knows about 30%-- but he has the slightly better glove... Who plays that position? To me, it's the 70% kid. Sometimes it's not JUST about fielding a grounder, or catching a pop-up (most 12's can do that above 70% of the time)... It's about knowing WHAT to do WHEN the ball isn't hit directly to you. Are you in the right position? Do you know all of your 'assignments' for that position? IF you do know more of what to do at your position than another kid, I'm going to give the nod to the higher level (mentally speaking) player-- especially in bracket (must-win) games. |
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Newbie BB Mom
141 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2015 : 11:21:50
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quote:
Originally posted by turntwo
Which brings me to something else... (slightly different topic) CaCO3- if you have two kids that can field at a position relatively equally (one may have a slightly better arm, the other a slightly better glove), but one 'gets' the position-- as in knowing 70% of every 'assignment' this position calls for during any situation. Essentially 'baseball IQ', if you will. The other kid, only knows about 30%-- but he has the slightly better glove... Who plays that position? To me, it's the 70% kid. Sometimes it's not JUST about fielding a grounder, or catching a pop-up (most 12's can do that above 70% of the time)... It's about knowing WHAT to do WHEN the ball isn't hit directly to you. Are you in the right position? Do you know all of your 'assignments' for that position? IF you do know more of what to do at your position than another kid, I'm going to give the nod to the higher level (mentally speaking) player-- especially in bracket (must-win) games.
Hmmm, just in terms of instructional philosophy, if the two kids are otherwise "relatively equal," it seems the coach should keep playing the 30% kid whenever he can to help him up his baseball IQ. Unlike some things (power or speed, for example), baseball IQ is actually something that can be improved, especially in game situations, where the kid really gets to see things in action. You can run the drill a hundred times in practice, but there's nothing like being in the wrong place to make the play to really figure out where you need to be next time you need to make that play.
Perhaps you don't put the 30% kid at that position late in bracket play -- just to keep that other group of whiney parents happy -- but that kid really does need to figure out what the coach has been teaching him in practice by seeing the consequences in real games.
All that said, like CaCO3Girl, while I sometimes don't agree with the coach's approach or decisions, I don't say anything to him during the season, especially not about my kid's playing time or positions. And, I don't complain about those things to other parents on the team, either. The only person who hears what I think is my husband, and vice versa.
But, the coach's choices about playing time and positions will play a big part in our decision whether to return to that team for another year. Not because I think my kid is a stud who deserves to always play his preferred position and bat fourth, but because we're looking for teams that emphasize development over winning.
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2015 : 15:28:56
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Turntwo: I think you and I are coming from different worlds here. In my world of teams under 13u the goal is, as Newbie BB Mom said, to DEVELOP over winning. 14u and up you play the kid who understands his role in that position, with practice they can get a better glove and they can get a better arm but the hardest thing to teach is what do I do with the ball now, especially at 14u and up. If they don't know it by then they are not likely to learn it. 13u and below you get the 30% kid some reps at that position when you move the 70% guy to another position so he can learn at least the 30% level of baseball IQ for another position.
There seems to be a stigma on saying ANYTHING bad about anything to do with baseball. I understand, and have told my kid, if that's the umps strike zone then make it work. If that's the umps call, no one call looses a game. HOWEVER, in real life, at work or in a family, sometimes people aren't to blame, why can't we say it? If Johnny doesn't complete his part of the presentation for a big proposal are you going to be vague so your boss thinks the whole team is incompetent or are you going to throw Johnny under the bus? If you have 3 kids and somehow your bedroom wall got painted with lipstick don't you want to know which one did it so you can punish the right person? If a kid pitched his heart out and allowed no walks, no HR's, and pitched mostly strikes but his team just didn't seem to be able to field that day....WHY is it a bad thing to tell the kid that the loss had nothing to do with his pitching? I didn't say it had nothing to do with HIM, because with a score of 12-1 it doesn't appear anyone's bats were working, but what is wrong with reassuring the kid that it wasn't the pitching? |
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Critical Mass
277 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2015 : 16:35:43
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| TurnTwo, as far as the realm of travel baseball...you must be sniffing glue my friend. Travel ball at most levels especially in the youth ages is all about my kid, better team, better position and the jersey or brand. Most of those are about the parents....a unfortunate bi-product of the kid/player that you must deal with as a coach. I wrote my share of daddy-ball rants on here but have wised up in my golden years and relented to :The FOrce". Most teams are coached by dads who are rightly, justly and admirably donating time to coach the sport...but most are also there as a placeholder for their kid to play where they want with like minded assistants. Embrace that and you will sleep better my friend. Now chin up and go fight the good fight! |
Edited by - Critical Mass on 06/04/2015 21:13:32 |
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hshuler
1074 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2015 : 16:40:56
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Can't development happen w/o totally sacrificing winning...and winning w/o totally sacrificing development?
What's wrong with the kid with the lower baseball IQ improving it during pool play? Is it fair to put him in more pressure-packed situations before he's ready?
A part of being a good coach is putting kids in a situation where they can be successful. Ideally they learn and grow more confident, then you give them more responsibility. Some kids can handle being thrown to the wolves but some can't. One things certain, coaches have to make some tough calls.
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Edited by - hshuler on 06/04/2015 21:13:32 |
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seminole tony
147 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2015 : 10:27:36
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hshuler,
I agree with you!
I haven't been on here in a while since my son graduated.
Why sacrifice a game to make it a learning experience. Play the best player at their best position. Pool play games are where you may want to move kids to "learn" a secondary spot and make the game fun for the better players(if they want)just in case. Their advanced knowledge will almost never hurt you.
This is travel baseball. If there is a weakness at a position, you go out and find a player to play it. You don't just put a player there and work through it. This is why during try outs you audition players to fill holes.
Look at the best teams out there. Everyone knows during the start of a tournament who they believe is the best team. They are the best because they reload at their weak spots and build that "GREAT" team. Nothing personal against the parents and players. This is not Rec ball where we let everybody play. I understand that this is not MLB but why not as a parent put your child on the caliber team that his skill level should be playing. Numbers/errors don't lie. Major player on a major teams. Not a great AA player on a major team.
My son was a catcher/pitcher. Could have been a great shortstop or outfielder. He WANTED to be the best catcher/pitcher, so he practiced and did just that. Why would anyone want to move a player out just to allow a least talented player at that position "Feel good" about themselves? Why play a player in a position that he doesn't want to play in? For the better of the team? That's not how great travel ball teams get better. That is not talking about putting a player in for an injured player.
Kids know where they want to play and where they play their best. Let them decide and as a parent match them with a team that needs him at that spot.
Whole nother story in high school where a coach can't go out and find players. But along the same principles. Play the best player at their best position. |
Edited by - seminole tony on 06/05/2015 13:05:20 |
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turntwo
955 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2015 : 12:07:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Critical Mass
TurnTwo, as far as the realm of travel baseball...you must be sniffing glue my friend. Travel ball at most levels especially in the youth ages is all about my kid, better team, better position and the jersey or brand. Most of those are about the parents....a unfortunate bi-product of the kid/player that you must deal with as a coach. I wrote my share of daddy-ball rants on here but have wised up in my golden years and relented to :The FOrce". Most teams are coached by dads who are rightly, justly and admirably donating time to coach the sport...but most are also there as a placeholder for their kid to play where they want with like minded assistants. Embrace that and you will sleep better my friend. Now chin up and go fight the good fight!
I think you're right. And I appreciate your and a few other's encouragement. But based on some replies here, whits23 has it right. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2015 : 14:38:45
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I think the basic issue of what turntwo is talking about is valid. I think play time and development for the younger ages is really a whole different topic. I think it comes down to taking responsibility and being a team player is what turntwo is talking about. I'm just going to copy a response I gave to a poster here and on another board because I think it illustrates my stance on turntwo's topic:
I think there needs to be some balance between taking responsibility and putting responsibility on others. Of course there are times when the team did not back the pitcher up. But if my son gives up one run and we lose the game, he feels it is his fault and should have pitched better. Even if the run was unearned. Do I give him encouragement and tell him he pitched a great game? Of course. Do I tell him that the team really needed to hit better? Of course. But what you really want to wind up having is a player who takes responsibility and has the attitude that "I" could have done better to help the "team". If you wind up with a team of players that just say "I did my part, someone else didn't", that team will never improve, they will never have a team chemistry and while a very good player may move on to higher levels, he will never be seen in the dugout as a "team" player.
So, like I said, there needs to be a balance. Be a team player and take responsibility for your part, but of course recognize that other team members have a part in that as well. For pitchers, perfect games come VERY rarely. That's the only time they can say they did nothing that could be improved on. For hitters, unless you go up and are 4-4 with 4 HRs, you could always do better. I think you get what I'm saying.
Unless you feel like you could have done better, you will never do anything to make yourself better. And everyone can always be better. |
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turntwo
955 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2015 : 15:56:37
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quote:
Originally posted by bballman
I think there needs to be some balance between taking responsibility and putting responsibility on others. Of course there are times when the team did not back the pitcher up. But if my son gives up one run and we lose the game, he feels it is his fault and should have pitched better. Even if the run was unearned. Do I give him encouragement and tell him he pitched a great game? Of course. Do I tell him that the team really needed to hit better? Of course. But what you really want to wind up having is a player who takes responsibility and has the attitude that "I" could have done better to help the "team". If you wind up with a team of players that just say "I did my part, someone else didn't", that team will never improve, they will never have a team chemistry and while a very good player may move on to higher levels, he will never be seen in the dugout as a "team" player.
^^^^^THIS!!!!!!!!! |
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turntwo
955 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2015 : 16:30:05
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quote:
Originally posted by seminole tony
Why sacrifice a game to make it a learning experience. Play the best player at their best position. Pool play games are where you may want to move kids to "learn" a secondary spot and make the game fun for the better players(if they want)just in case. Their advanced knowledge will almost never hurt you.
This is travel baseball. If there is a weakness at a position, you go out and find a player to play it. You don't just put a player there and work through it. This is why during try outs you audition players to fill holes.
Look at the best teams out there. Everyone knows during the start of a tournament who they believe is the best team. They are the best because they reload at their weak spots and build that "GREAT" team. Nothing personal against the parents and players. This is not Rec ball where we let everybody play. I understand that this is not MLB but why not as a parent put your child on the caliber team that his skill level should be playing. Numbers/errors don't lie. Major player on a major teams. Not a great AA player on a major team.
AMEN!!!!!
quote:
Originally posted by seminole tony
Why play a player in a position that he doesn't want to play in? For the better of the team? That's not how great travel ball teams get better. That is not talking about putting a player in for an injured player.
Kids know where they want to play and where they play their best. Let them decide and as a parent match them with a team that needs him at that spot.
At the younger ages, and this goes back to my "knowing your role" MAINLY the parents, THE PARENTS want lil Johnny in premier positions. I mean, sure the kids want reps, but mom and dad aren't 'real' with their kids or themselves. Be honest and tell lil Johnny, "Look, coach gave you DOZENS of innings in the fall and in Spring pool play games, and you just couldn't consistently perform at the level of the team at that position. You couldn't comprehend the assignments, or execute the plays. Maybe on a lower team you could get more playing time, but up here, lil Frankie is a much better choice for coach at that position. I mean look Johnny, you're fielding at a .618 rate, yet Frankie, with 30 more chances, is fielding at at .910 rate." I guess I'm the rare parent that DOES have that conversation with my son. I tell him, "So, you want to play there, let's work on that. Me and you. I'm don't need coach to sit here with us and watch a Braves game and teach you the assignments of the position. You get these down, we can work on your foot and glove work, and potentially make it harder for coach to tell you "no" if you're showing improvement in practice (because yes, all kids get reps in multiple positions in practice even this late in the season)."
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seminole tony
147 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2015 : 23:19:07
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If you work with your child and spend quality time with him, that should be enough knowing he is having fun and able to play the game of baseball. Go watch a Miracle League game and then think about these trivial arguments that mean nothing in the big picture. |
Edited by - seminole tony on 06/06/2015 08:07:24 |
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GeorgiaBoy
29 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2015 : 12:05:17
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| Man..lil Johnny is taking a beating on here... |
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whits23
596 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2015 : 16:41:32
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| is it ok to skip group bp for a bday party? at what age? hshuler isnt your son 19? LOL jk |
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hshuler
1074 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2015 : 18:31:14
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@whit - Lol...13U...so fun is still the main goal. In two years, when he hits high school it becomes more like a job.
@turntwo - I agree again...we tell our boys to do something about it if they don't like where they are batting or the amount of playing time they are getting.
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2015 : 08:56:45
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quote:
Originally posted by turntwo
[quote] Be honest and tell lil Johnny, "Look, coach gave you DOZENS of innings in the fall and in Spring pool play games, and you just couldn't consistently perform at the level of the team at that position. You couldn't comprehend the assignments, or execute the plays. Maybe on a lower team you could get more playing time, but up here, lil Frankie is a much better choice for coach at that position. I mean look Johnny, you're fielding at a .618 rate, yet Frankie, with 30 more chances, is fielding at at .910 rate." I guess I'm the rare parent that DOES have that conversation with my son. I tell him, "So, you want to play there, let's work on that. Me and you. I'm don't need coach to sit here with us and watch a Braves game and teach you the assignments of the position. You get these down, we can work on your foot and glove work, and potentially make it harder for coach to tell you "no" if you're showing improvement in practice (because yes, all kids get reps in multiple positions in practice even this late in the season)."
This concept I can agree with 100% and have had that discussion with my son on why so and so plays the position over so and so.
What I can't get behind is the idea that if 1 kid, maybe your kid, had a great day but the team still lost why we as adults can't recognize that great achievement. I think of it like we are saying to a kid "Well, since you weren't perfect it just wasn't good enough"...how can any kid continue on in the sport with adults telling him the team lost so it doesn't matter what you did today?
This weekend we had a pitcher pitch the whole game, the score was 0-0 going into the 5th inning when ONE pitch got away from him and the kid at the plate hit a HR over a 200ft fence. His strike percentage was almost 78%! He's 12 and he only had to pitch 54 pitches in 5 innings, with only 1 walk and 1 pitch that got away from him...yeah the team lost 0-1 but you can bet I told that kid he did a GREAT job, because he did, and no he isn't my kid. |
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turntwo
955 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2015 : 12:52:08
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quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
[quote]
What I can't get behind is the idea that if 1 kid, maybe your kid, had a great day but the team still lost why we as adults can't recognize that great achievement. I think of it like we are saying to a kid "Well, since you weren't perfect it just wasn't good enough"...how can any kid continue on in the sport with adults telling him the team lost so it doesn't matter what you did today?
This weekend we had a pitcher pitch the whole game, the score was 0-0 going into the 5th inning when ONE pitch got away from him and the kid at the plate hit a HR over a 200ft fence. His strike percentage was almost 78%! He's 12 and he only had to pitch 54 pitches in 5 innings, with only 1 walk and 1 pitch that got away from him...yeah the team lost 0-1 but you can bet I told that kid he did a GREAT job, because he did, and no he isn't my kid.
These two paragraphs contridict one another don't they? If you want to praise a kid that pitched lights out, and place blame on the defense or a play or two that cost you the game.... THEN, this pitcher WAS the "blame" or "fault" of the loss, no? He did good, but maybe not great? OR... As a TEAM, it sounds as if, EVERYONE could have did more to HIT and score runs?
Golf is a GREAT individualized self-centered sport. If parents are SOLELY concerned with the play of their son and his production, maybe that's a sport they should look at. Otherwise, a team succeeds AND fails as a TEAM. Everyone could always do more (again, unless, as stated before, the kids goes 4-4 with 4 HR's at the dish). |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2015 : 14:13:24
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This is a sport where you only have to get on base 30% of the time to be considered good, and we can't let a 12 year old who let ONE pitch go wrong think he pitched a good game, we have to beat him down and say it didn't matter it was your fault we lost, really, that is the baseball mentality....what the ever loving fudge-sicles is THAT about?!?!?!?! How the blip did we ever get any inductees into the Hall Of Fame?
Better question...is it ONLY okay to give a child a compliment if his team wins? Or even then are we suppose to come up with ways to tell the kid how he could have done better and just kill that moment of joy? Is this a fairly new mentality that unless the kid is perfect he shouldn't be complimented?
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2015 : 14:55:33
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quote:
Originally posted by bballman
I think there needs to be some balance between taking responsibility and putting responsibility on others. Of course there are times when the team did not back the pitcher up. But if my son gives up one run and we lose the game, he feels it is his fault and should have pitched better. Even if the run was unearned. Do I give him encouragement and tell him he pitched a great game? Of course. Do I tell him that the team really needed to hit better? Of course. But what you really want to wind up having is a player who takes responsibility and has the attitude that "I" could have done better to help the "team". If you wind up with a team of players that just say "I did my part, someone else didn't", that team will never improve, they will never have a team chemistry and while a very good player may move on to higher levels, he will never be seen in the dugout as a "team" player.
CaCO3Girl, I don't think anyone is saying a kid should not be complemented. Read what I said earlier. That kid you are talking about pitched a great game. Of course he should be complimented. But what we want is for ALL the kids (players) to take responsibility for their own part in a TEAM loss. One player can have a great game, but if HIS TEAM loses, he needs to take a look at what he can do better.
Believe me, if a kid is perceived by his teammates as thinking or saying that he was great, but the rest of the team didn't do their job, he will be viewed as arrogant and not a team player. He will not be accepted as part of the "team". My son knows who on his team is a team guy. He knows who are NOT team guys as well. Last year one kid got cut from his college team. The reason? He was not a team player. That is what the coach told him. When I asked my son and numerous other players what was the deal with the guy, they ALL said he wasn't a team player. A LOT of that has to do with not taking responsibility for one's own self and laying blame on everyone else.
Does my son get aggravated when errors are made behind him? Of course. Does he walk around blaming them for losing the game? Nope. Will he come out of the game and say that he should have pitched better? Yep.
The only other thing I will add (say again) is that unless a player feels that he needs to improve on something, he will never get better. Afterall, if there is nothing to get better at, what is there to improve? My son can pitch 7 innings of shut out ball, but he will often say something along the lines of "My fastball and curveball were great, I was really spotting them up, but my changeup wasn't very good. I need to work on that." That gives him something to focus on in his next bullpen. It gives him something to strive for. He always wants to improve on what he's done.
So, complement, but don't raise a primadona. Baseball is a TEAM sport played by INDIVIDUALS. An individual can have a good performance, but if the team loses, it really means little.
I think with the emphasis on development at the younger ages, this gets lost. We talk about kids getting better and developing. We talk about winning not being the most important thing. We talk about not sacrificing a kid's health just for the "win". This is all true at the younger ages. But, part of the development of the kids is for them to develop a strong sense of "team". Baseball is a game that one individual cannot win by himself. It takes a team effort. My opinion is, this is one of the baseball IQ things that kids need to learn.
Anyway, I'll get off my soapbox. I think I've said enough. |
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turntwo
955 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2015 : 15:02:45
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quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
Better question...is it ONLY okay to give a child a compliment if his team wins? Or even then are we suppose to come up with ways to tell the kid how he could have done better and just kill that moment of joy? Is this a fairly new mentality that unless the kid is perfect he shouldn't be complimented?
It's not so much about complimenting, or being complimented... We've derailed from the original topic quite a bit... How is it you want to tell a pitcher he did everything right and his defense blew it for him (as you've previously stated), but in this recent occasion, since you can't blame the defense on errors, you're STILL not going to blame the pitcher for a bad pitch? I mean really, I wouldn't either, but if you're quick to throw the defense under the bus, why not throw the entire team for not hitting, or the pitcher for leaving one too many up in the zone? That's what I don't get! WHY THROW ANYONE under the bus? It's NOT healthy for the team. Give congrats all day long, but stop short of playing the blame game.
I'll say this though, I have always tried to keep my kid humble. And having him commit to the team, and support his teammates. That means, win or lose, it was the team effort. Period. One kid hits the walk-off homer, great, compliment him. One kid makes 7 errors, but the team still wins, feel free to compliment him. My son's team has lost plenty of games, and the moment my son utters a word about Johnny costing them the game, I'm QUICK to remind and ask my son how he did at ____ (I'll pick something he didn't do very well at, such as pitching, hitting, base running, etc.).
The moment you have a kid, or kids, on a team who think they do no wrong, because mom and dad tell him he "did great and it was the rest of the teams fault", is a moment that team is heading downhill towards demise. Just my opinion. |
Edited by - turntwo on 06/08/2015 15:27:37 |
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Knowing your role-- when?
