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AA17Dad
211 Posts |
 Posted - 11/04/2013 : 08:53:48
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quote:
Originally posted by momof8
Is it normal for other coaches to scout a team in a tournament then attempt to steal players from that team? We've never had it happen on our team until now. Just curious if that's normal or we've just been lucky thus far?
Back to the OP's Question.
Yes it is normal. |
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baseballpapa
1520 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2013 : 09:37:23
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| This topic produced some good discussion and after all this is a discussion board. If we all agreed then there would no need to discuss it. Bottom line is that if the player and his parents are looking for to move from Team A to Team B then they should be upfront and finish your present commitment prior to leaving Team A. But a point that I didn't see mentioned much is that it takes 2 side to form a commitment. If Team A has promised something that did not materialize or if Team A is not doing the things that were promised then my question would be. "Can you leave Team A with Honor and your head held high since you do not feel you getting what was guaranteed. Now that's a question for you all. |
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rippit
667 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2013 : 11:42:35
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My son has never been allowed to leave one team for another mid season. Has he wanted to? Absolutely. Reason? Didn't have anything to do with the other 9-12 players or their parents so why punish them?
To be a good team mate...you must remain with the team. Parents who don't preach this need a whack upside the head. Coaches who try don't try to promote loyalty to the team need two whacks upside the head.
Finish your commitment. If you need to play with two teams LEGALLY at the same time to accomplish your agenda, then do it. But team A should come first in time and financial commitment 100% of the time. No exceptions.
If an organization or coach is screwing you over, don't take it out on the rest of the team. What you don't know is that sometimes it leads to the remainder of the players not having enough players to finish a season and not paying YOUR PORTION in it's entirety of player fees can also have the same effect. If you have an issue with the organization or the coach, take it up with them. Finish the drill where the others are concerned then run far far away. |
Edited by - rippit on 11/04/2013 11:46:37 |
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AllStar
762 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2013 : 12:17:20
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quote:
Originally posted by rippit
My son has never been allowed to leave one team for another mid season. Has he wanted to? Absolutely. Reason? Didn't have anything to do with the other 9-12 players or their parents so why punish them?
To be a good team mate...you must remain with the team. Parents who don't preach this need a whack upside the head. Coaches who try don't try to promote loyalty to the team need two whacks upside the head.
Finish your commitment. If you need to play with two teams LEGALLY at the same time to accomplish your agenda, then do it. But team A should come first in time and financial commitment 100% of the time. No exceptions.
If an organization or coach is screwing you over, don't take it out on the rest of the team. What you don't know is that sometimes it leads to the remainder of the players not having enough players to finish a season and not paying YOUR PORTION in it's entirety of player fees can also have the same effect. If you have an issue with the organization or the coach, take it up with them. Finish the drill where the others are concerned then run far far away.
All of this.... |
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ABC_Baseball
90 Posts |
Posted - 11/04/2013 : 15:20:25
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quote:
Originally posted by rippit
My son has never been allowed to leave one team for another mid season. Has he wanted to? Absolutely. Reason? Didn't have anything to do with the other 9-12 players or their parents so why punish them?
To be a good team mate...you must remain with the team. Parents who don't preach this need a whack upside the head. Coaches who try don't try to promote loyalty to the team need two whacks upside the head.
Finish your commitment. If you need to play with two teams LEGALLY at the same time to accomplish your agenda, then do it. But team A should come first in time and financial commitment 100% of the time. No exceptions.
If an organization or coach is screwing you over, don't take it out on the rest of the team. What you don't know is that sometimes it leads to the remainder of the players not having enough players to finish a season and not paying YOUR PORTION in it's entirety of player fees can also have the same effect. If you have an issue with the organization or the coach, take it up with them. Finish the drill where the others are concerned then run far far away.
I think what you are speaking of is lost on a bunch of people. Too many people think it’s about them and their kid only. I don’t think they know what it means to be a PART of a team. I think they see their kid as the center and the others around them as the supporting cast.
I told my wife at this point I don’t want our kid being the obvious "Best Player" on the team. I would rather him be one of the 4 or 5 best players on a team because that means he is surrounded by other good players. I’ve been told that it was the desire to have their kid as the center of the team that caused player "x" to back out on us. In my brief time as a dad around travel ball, I've found that there is absolutely NO substitute for being around GOOD PEOPLE.
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rippit
667 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2013 : 08:26:41
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"I've found that there is absolutely NO substitute for being around GOOD PEOPLE."
Amen Brother ABC...
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turntwo
955 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2013 : 11:21:52
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quote:
Originally posted by rippit
My son has never been allowed to leave one team for another mid season. Has he wanted to? Absolutely. Reason? Didn't have anything to do with the other 9-12 players or their parents so why punish them?
To be a good team mate...you must remain with the team. Parents who don't preach this need a whack upside the head. Coaches who try don't try to promote loyalty to the team need two whacks upside the head.
Finish your commitment. If you need to play with two teams LEGALLY at the same time to accomplish your agenda, then do it. But team A should come first in time and financial commitment 100% of the time. No exceptions.
If an organization or coach is screwing you over, don't take it out on the rest of the team. What you don't know is that sometimes it leads to the remainder of the players not having enough players to finish a season and not paying YOUR PORTION in it's entirety of player fees can also have the same effect. If you have an issue with the organization or the coach, take it up with them. Finish the drill where the others are concerned then run far far away.
quote:
Originally posted by ABC_Baseball
I think what you are speaking of is lost on a bunch of people. Too many people think it’s about them and their kid only. I don’t think they know what it means to be a PART of a team. I think they see their kid as the center and the others around them as the supporting cast.
So, being new to travel baseball (8-yr old son), I can agree and see both of these quoted statements as true. ABC, if I do not think travel is about MY kid, who will? We choose the team that we best fit would suit our son's needs and nurture his development. HE IS part of the TEAM. Yet, the 'promises' and 'guarantees' from the coach haven't panned out or come to fruition over the fall as advertised. We have been approached. We have put a LOT of thought into those conversations that have occurred about our son-- from other coaches. Ultimately, we did decide to stay the course for the fall, but it was with a LOT of hesitation and being extremely guarded. Leaving will have ZERO to do with the other players/parents, but simply the favoritism and loyalty the coach blatantly displays for some, over others.
It's a two-way street in my opinion. Coaches need to stand behind what they say and/or promise, and attempt to fulfill those promises. If you tell a parent one thing, and do nearly the complete opposite, you cannot expect those parents to be loyal to you, when you weren't 100% honest with them, up front. Now, if you're just looking to be the 'big fish' in a small pond, or your kid isn't 'the star' on the team, I'm all for honoring your commitment. |
Edited by - turntwo on 11/05/2013 11:37:06 |
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Gwinnett
791 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2013 : 23:21:05
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Your VERY right! IT WORKS BOTH WAYS! If you want to be a lying coach don't expect players to stick around. A lot of coaches promise what they can't deliver. Then they feel slighted when a player leaves. When your paying $1800 - $3000 for spring season coaches need to be accountable. That's a lot of money to spend, to be lied to.
Some of the better coaches I've seen don't care who leaves and can adjust to any situation. Most top teams have a waiting list of top talent.
quote:
Originally posted by turntwo
quote:
Originally posted by rippit
My son has never been allowed to leave one team for another mid season. Has he wanted to? Absolutely. Reason? Didn't have anything to do with the other 9-12 players or their parents so why punish them?
To be a good team mate...you must remain with the team. Parents who don't preach this need a whack upside the head. Coaches who try don't try to promote loyalty to the team need two whacks upside the head.
Finish your commitment. If you need to play with two teams LEGALLY at the same time to accomplish your agenda, then do it. But team A should come first in time and financial commitment 100% of the time. No exceptions.
If an organization or coach is screwing you over, don't take it out on the rest of the team. What you don't know is that sometimes it leads to the remainder of the players not having enough players to finish a season and not paying YOUR PORTION in it's entirety of player fees can also have the same effect. If you have an issue with the organization or the coach, take it up with them. Finish the drill where the others are concerned then run far far away.
quote:
Originally posted by ABC_Baseball
I think what you are speaking of is lost on a bunch of people. Too many people think it’s about them and their kid only. I don’t think they know what it means to be a PART of a team. I think they see their kid as the center and the others around them as the supporting cast.
So, being new to travel baseball (8-yr old son), I can agree and see both of these quoted statements as true. ABC, if I do not think travel is about MY kid, who will? We choose the team that we best fit would suit our son's needs and nurture his development. HE IS part of the TEAM. Yet, the 'promises' and 'guarantees' from the coach haven't panned out or come to fruition over the fall as advertised. We have been approached. We have put a LOT of thought into those conversations that have occurred about our son-- from other coaches. Ultimately, we did decide to stay the course for the fall, but it was with a LOT of hesitation and being extremely guarded. Leaving will have ZERO to do with the other players/parents, but simply the favoritism and loyalty the coach blatantly displays for some, over others.
It's a two-way street in my opinion. Coaches need to stand behind what they say and/or promise, and attempt to fulfill those promises. If you tell a parent one thing, and do nearly the complete opposite, you cannot expect those parents to be loyal to you, when you weren't 100% honest with them, up front. Now, if you're just looking to be the 'big fish' in a small pond, or your kid isn't 'the star' on the team, I'm all for honoring your commitment.
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ABC_Baseball
90 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2013 : 09:57:35
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quote:
Originally posted by turntwo
So, being new to travel baseball (8-yr old son), I can agree and see both of these quoted statements as true. ABC, if I do not think travel is about MY kid, who will? We choose the team that we best fit would suit our son's needs and nurture his development. HE IS part of the TEAM. Yet, the 'promises' and 'guarantees' from the coach haven't panned out or come to fruition over the fall as advertised. We have been approached. We have put a LOT of thought into those conversations that have occurred about our son-- from other coaches. Ultimately, we did decide to stay the course for the fall, but it was with a LOT of hesitation and being extremely guarded. Leaving will have ZERO to do with the other players/parents, but simply the favoritism and loyalty the coach blatantly displays for some, over others.
It's a two-way street in my opinion. Coaches need to stand behind what they say and/or promise, and attempt to fulfill those promises. If you tell a parent one thing, and do nearly the complete opposite, you cannot expect those parents to be loyal to you, when you weren't 100% honest with them, up front. Now, if you're just looking to be the 'big fish' in a small pond, or your kid isn't 'the star' on the team, I'm all for honoring your commitment.
I think you can put your kid in the best situation without lying or being dishonest with others. We had a situation when my son made his first All Star team at the rec. ball level. Despite being one of the two fastest kids on the team, a very good contact hitter and a player with a young but emerging glove, I saw his playing time reduced as the season went on. Nothing was more maddening than seeing him taken out of the game in the 3rd inning after reaching base successfully 2 out of 3 times. Especially when there were kids that were 0-3 and 1-3 with multiple errors in the field and they played all innings, including the extra one. It came down to the fact that those early solicitations for sponsorship money were opportunities to “buy” playing time for your kid. This was my son’s first All Star experience and the second for others, so I was clueless.
Long story short, we left the park at seasons end and didn’t come back. I felt the coach’s speech about wanting to see “each kid improve” was a lie. There was a lot of politics and ego in that staff. It seems that some take the “team being about my kid” to means that they play no matter what. They are always on the field, they always hit near the top of the order, they are in their primary spot and don’t have to play well to keep the position. So in reality, it’s that their kid is not held accountable. If your kid is a middle infielder, then yes, look for a team that needs a middle infielder. However, don’t expect that your kid can do no wrong and there are special rules for them. I don’t understand why some also seem to “duck” competition. They don’t want to be around others that could possibly “steal” the spotlight away from their son. To me, that does nothing but provide a false sense of one’s own abilities and hurts you in the long run.
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turntwo
955 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2013 : 10:58:40
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quote:
Originally posted by ABC_Baseball
quote:
Originally posted by turntwo
So, being new to travel baseball (8-yr old son), I can agree and see both of these quoted statements as true. ABC, if I do not think travel is about MY kid, who will? We choose the team that we best fit would suit our son's needs and nurture his development. HE IS part of the TEAM. Yet, the 'promises' and 'guarantees' from the coach haven't panned out or come to fruition over the fall as advertised. We have been approached. We have put a LOT of thought into those conversations that have occurred about our son-- from other coaches. Ultimately, we did decide to stay the course for the fall, but it was with a LOT of hesitation and being extremely guarded. Leaving will have ZERO to do with the other players/parents, but simply the favoritism and loyalty the coach blatantly displays for some, over others.
It's a two-way street in my opinion. Coaches need to stand behind what they say and/or promise, and attempt to fulfill those promises. If you tell a parent one thing, and do nearly the complete opposite, you cannot expect those parents to be loyal to you, when you weren't 100% honest with them, up front. Now, if you're just looking to be the 'big fish' in a small pond, or your kid isn't 'the star' on the team, I'm all for honoring your commitment.
I think you can put your kid in the best situation without lying or being dishonest with others. We had a situation when my son made his first All Star team at the rec. ball level. Despite being one of the two fastest kids on the team, a very good contact hitter and a player with a young but emerging glove, I saw his playing time reduced as the season went on. Nothing was more maddening than seeing him taken out of the game in the 3rd inning after reaching base successfully 2 out of 3 times. Especially when there were kids that were 0-3 and 1-3 with multiple errors in the field and they played all innings, including the extra one. It came down to the fact that those early solicitations for sponsorship money were opportunities to “buy” playing time for your kid. This was my son’s first All Star experience and the second for others, so I was clueless.
Long story short, we left the park at seasons end and didn’t come back. I felt the coach’s speech about wanting to see “each kid improve” was a lie. There was a lot of politics and ego in that staff. It seems that some take the “team being about my kid” to means that they play no matter what. They are always on the field, they always hit near the top of the order, they are in their primary spot and don’t have to play well to keep the position. So in reality, it’s that their kid is not held accountable. If your kid is a middle infielder, then yes, look for a team that needs a middle infielder. However, don’t expect that your kid can do no wrong and there are special rules for them. I don’t understand why some also seem to “duck” competition. They don’t want to be around others that could possibly “steal” the spotlight away from their son. To me, that does nothing but provide a false sense of one’s own abilities and hurts you in the long run.
Not to get too far off on a tangent, but I feel these two topics intertwine (players leaving/being stolen and coaches who mislead parents in what they say initially). I feel you're spot on with everything you've stated, and felt like you were describing my situation to a "T".
Again, I'm loyal, to a fault at times, and was gullible enough to believe everything I was told (first time through-- remember). And maybe the 'fall season' is more relaxed or with the 8's being relatively 'newbies' to the travel situation, coaches are more aggressive in seeking out some players that would better compliment their 'new' teams. Hence us getting approached I guess.
My final thought... If a coach is honest, does what he says, and people are content why would ANY players leave (re: be stolen) for another team? |
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JCB
88 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2013 : 19:36:25
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Lots of good posts here on these intertwined topics.
As a parent of a child that is at the end of his travel ball journey our observations are that there are lots of good people (coaches) out there, but there are far more coaches that simply do not deliver on the promises they make to too many families. More families/players are disappointed with the experience than satisfied, and hence all the movement between teams between seasons. Kids and families would move around less if the product/experience offered was closer to the promises made on the front end.
I also believe that most of the coaches truly are well intended at the start of their team's formation/recruiting/tryout process, but allow the pressures of winning and covering the ever mounting costs associated with travel ball to get in the way of doing the right thing. This all sounds like "life lessons" which we are told our kids would experience and grow from through their baseball expereince. I think at the end of the day the biggest life lesson they learn is that to be successful you need to learn how to overcome politics, stay positive, remain focused on long terms goals while enjoying the process, and if they stick with it and learn good work ethics - they will get better at baseball, but most importantly, be better off for what they learned about people and interacting in a team environment. These are big lessons for young kids to learn, but my hunch is that they will be better off for it if they do not allow themselves (and us parents) to become victims. As my dad said many years ago - control what you can control and you will not regret the experience gained from that participation. Baseball and life will reward those of us that learn this message.
It is also incumbent for those of us that coach to look in the mirror as often as we can and ask ourselves if we are following through on our promises and if we would feel good about the decisions we make if the kids affected by our decisions were our kid(s).
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BBall123
395 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2013 : 19:55:53
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quote:
Originally posted by turntwo
quote:
Originally posted by ABC_Baseball
quote:
Originally posted by turntwo
So, being new to travel baseball (8-yr old son), I can agree and see both of these quoted statements as true. ABC, if I do not think travel is about MY kid, who will? We choose the team that we best fit would suit our son's needs and nurture his development. HE IS part of the TEAM. Yet, the 'promises' and 'guarantees' from the coach haven't panned out or come to fruition over the fall as advertised. We have been approached. We have put a LOT of thought into those conversations that have occurred about our son-- from other coaches. Ultimately, we did decide to stay the course for the fall, but it was with a LOT of hesitation and being extremely guarded. Leaving will have ZERO to do with the other players/parents, but simply the favoritism and loyalty the coach blatantly displays for some, over others.
It's a two-way street in my opinion. Coaches need to stand behind what they say and/or promise, and attempt to fulfill those promises. If you tell a parent one thing, and do nearly the complete opposite, you cannot expect those parents to be loyal to you, when you weren't 100% honest with them, up front. Now, if you're just looking to be the 'big fish' in a small pond, or your kid isn't 'the star' on the team, I'm all for honoring your commitment.
I think you can put your kid in the best situation without lying or being dishonest with others. We had a situation when my son made his first All Star team at the rec. ball level. Despite being one of the two fastest kids on the team, a very good contact hitter and a player with a young but emerging glove, I saw his playing time reduced as the season went on. Nothing was more maddening than seeing him taken out of the game in the 3rd inning after reaching base successfully 2 out of 3 times. Especially when there were kids that were 0-3 and 1-3 with multiple errors in the field and they played all innings, including the extra one. It came down to the fact that those early solicitations for sponsorship money were opportunities to “buy” playing time for your kid. This was my son’s first All Star experience and the second for others, so I was clueless.
Long story short, we left the park at seasons end and didn’t come back. I felt the coach’s speech about wanting to see “each kid improve” was a lie. There was a lot of politics and ego in that staff. It seems that some take the “team being about my kid” to means that they play no matter what. They are always on the field, they always hit near the top of the order, they are in their primary spot and don’t have to play well to keep the position. So in reality, it’s that their kid is not held accountable. If your kid is a middle infielder, then yes, look for a team that needs a middle infielder. However, don’t expect that your kid can do no wrong and there are special rules for them. I don’t understand why some also seem to “duck” competition. They don’t want to be around others that could possibly “steal” the spotlight away from their son. To me, that does nothing but provide a false sense of one’s own abilities and hurts you in the long run.
Not to get too far off on a tangent, but I feel these two topics intertwine (players leaving/being stolen and coaches who mislead parents in what they say initially). I feel you're spot on with everything you've stated, and felt like you were describing my situation to a "T".
Again, I'm loyal, to a fault at times, and was gullible enough to believe everything I was told (first time through-- remember). And maybe the 'fall season' is more relaxed or with the 8's being relatively 'newbies' to the travel situation, coaches are more aggressive in seeking out some players that would better compliment their 'new' teams. Hence us getting approached I guess.
My final thought... If a coach is honest, does what he says, and people are content why would ANY players leave (re: be stolen) for another team?
BINGO ! Quite a few lying dishonest coaches out there trying to build their reps or their businesses with your kids. |
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AllStar
762 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2013 : 21:05:45
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quote:
Originally posted by LilBigTown
I guess if you call it stealing then Red Sox, Yankees, or Detroit are going to steal Brian Mccan for about 15 million a year! Parents please this is competitive travel baseball. I don't know about anyone else but I'm really tired of Americas new sense of entitlement where so many feel like everything is not fair. News Flash... LIFE IS Not FAIR it's Life some have other options an some do not. " Sports are the one of the only pure things left in this world for at the end of the game there will always be a winner an a loser. The outcome is not affected by race, religion, or social status ." Doctor J. I sure glad that the Braves stole Upton, Johnson, an Gattis this year ! Oh an if you want to play on a league where you can't steal players a great recreation program awaits.
Because we all know there are no rules around trades and free agency in the MLB. :rolleyes: |
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Scouting and stealing players
