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TAZ980002
831 Posts |
 Posted - 10/27/2013 : 08:57:13
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I was at the park yesterday and came across a team with a couple of players that were too old for the age group. One of the players was pitching and having a pretty easy time of it. I knew the Dad of that player and asked him about the fact that his son was too old to play with that team. His response was "it's just Fall baseball, nobody looks at rosters during the Fall".
My question to you guys is this: is there ever a time or situation that you would allow your son to play when you knew he was too old for the age group?
I never have and never would. To me it sets a bad example for everyone involved, most importantly my son if I allow it to happen. Where does a person that cheats draw the line? If it's OK to play in a younger age group is it also OK to use a tampered bat then? Is it OK to line your glove with Vaseline?
Your thoughts and comments are always appreciated. |
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Gwinnett
791 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2013 : 11:34:30
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IMO, the ones that cheat are the ones that usually didn't work hard for something. Now that they didn't get ahead because they didn't work hard, they end up playing catch up. Doing steroids because they never took the time to go work out over the years to gradually get big and strong. Shaving there bat because they never could hit that far, instead of training for the best swing. Playing with younger kids because they never stood out at there own age. The newest one I've seen is holding there kid back a grade so they can be a super star at there grade (even then they fall behind).
IMO, all cheaters are just lazy and want the results of others who have worked VERY hard to achieve there goals. There usually BEHIND the curve and will never catch up so they cheat to accomplish what others have worked hard to achieve. Of course they think it's OK because they feel entitled without working hard for something. LAZY!!!
NO it's not OK to cheat! |
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DecaturDad
619 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2013 : 11:52:45
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| No. I don't think it is ever OK to cheat. What is that dad teaching his kid about rules outside of baseball. This is nota rules interpretation that could be understood in different ways. This is a clear rule that the dad and player both knew they were breaking. |
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AllStar
762 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2013 : 12:33:56
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| No. Never. Not ever. The good news is that that the Dad in question is the exception not the rule in travel ball from my experience. Still, he's already passed that attitude onto his son and the coaches using his son have passed it on to the team. |
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a1prog
164 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2013 : 22:43:17
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| This is bad news. Make a note to never have your kid play for that coach or that program if they knowingly cheated. Years ago i knew of a dad who would try to get his kid on a team that had advanced further than his son's squad in a tourney. Just poor form by anyone who accepts such behavior. btw- the kid got caught one time and his team had to forfeit in the middle of an elimination game. |
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larryjr
46 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2013 : 13:37:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Gwinnett
IMO, the ones that cheat are the ones that usually didn't work hard for something. Now that they didn't get ahead because they didn't work hard, they end up playing catch up. Doing steroids because they never took the time to go work out over the years to gradually get big and strong. Shaving there bat because they never could hit that far, instead of training for the best swing. Playing with younger kids because they never stood out at there own age. The newest one I've seen is holding there kid back a grade so they can be a super star at there grade (even then they fall behind).
IMO, all cheaters are just lazy and want the results of others who have worked VERY hard to achieve there goals. There usually BEHIND the curve and will never catch up so they cheat to accomplish what others have worked hard to achieve. Of course they think it's OK because they feel entitled without working hard for something. LAZY!!!
NO it's not OK to cheat!
That's not new. In the early 80's in my hometown in GA, it was commonplace for 8th grade boys to repeat the 8th grade so they could be 3 year starters in HS. My senior class had 4 of them, all of which went to play college football.
Knowingly playing down is cheating and it's not OK, ever. |
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Gwinnett
791 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2013 : 21:28:52
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Never realized how common it is. Been hearing a lot about it last couple of years. Very interesting topic in itself. Personally, I wouldn't hold back anyone of my three to gain an advantage for sports. Seemed like it was more common in Football years ago than baseball?
quote:
Originally posted by larryjr
quote:
Originally posted by Gwinnett
IMO, the ones that cheat are the ones that usually didn't work hard for something. Now that they didn't get ahead because they didn't work hard, they end up playing catch up. Doing steroids because they never took the time to go work out over the years to gradually get big and strong. Shaving there bat because they never could hit that far, instead of training for the best swing. Playing with younger kids because they never stood out at there own age. The newest one I've seen is holding there kid back a grade so they can be a super star at there grade (even then they fall behind).
IMO, all cheaters are just lazy and want the results of others who have worked VERY hard to achieve there goals. There usually BEHIND the curve and will never catch up so they cheat to accomplish what others have worked hard to achieve. Of course they think it's OK because they feel entitled without working hard for something. LAZY!!!
NO it's not OK to cheat!
That's not new. In the early 80's in my hometown in GA, it was commonplace for 8th grade boys to repeat the 8th grade so they could be 3 year starters in HS. My senior class had 4 of them, all of which went to play college football.
Knowingly playing down is cheating and it's not OK, ever.
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C. MORTON
1051 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2013 : 23:16:31
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| Now days there are tons of people holding their sons back for sports!! They can win out a spot at their age so they just let them stay back and make up all kinds of reasons for it!!!! Seen at least 8 kids my sone grew up with. He is a junior in HS and some of them are just freshmen this year. Dads thinking they will be bigger or more mature at 18 than 17 years old!!! |
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ABC_Baseball
90 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2013 : 08:38:41
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It’s never ok to cheat. I have seen this trend of "red-shirting" tend to grow in GA over the last 2 or 3 years. Check out the 60 Minutest piece on it from 2012 ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtEsw49o4RY ). They talk about how it tends to happen with boys more and as it applies to academics in school. I found it interesting in this piece how the mother specifically mentioned it giving her child a leg up in sports.
Bottom line, you have to work hard, not everything comes easy to everybody. I think it’s sad when people resort to holding their kids back purposely to try and give them a leg up on the competition. If the kid is struggling academically and doesn’t earn a promotion, then fine. It’s just like they mentioned in the video, use to if you wanted your kid to get ahead, you skipped them ahead a grade/age group. Now it seems people are doing the exact opposite. I'm in my late 30's, but when I was coming up, "flunking" a grade was something to be embarrassed about. I didn’t know of too many kids whose parents were ok with it.
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TAZ980002
831 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2013 : 10:50:14
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| Guys, I don't think holding a child back is cheating. It makes sense for some (maturity, grades, etc.) but don't know if I would ever do it just for sports. This sounds like a good topic for another thread though. |
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in_the_know
985 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2013 : 11:21:22
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This thread has become one of cheating to one of holding your kid back to benefit from a year advantage over other kids.
Holding a kid back is not cheating. Colleges red shirt freshmen. It's an allowable practice, not cheating. There are multiple threads on this site about holding kids back for sports. Whether parents agree or disagree on the PRACTICE of doing this, it is allowable, however guided or misguided the reasons. When all is said and done, however, to do this isn't cheating.
Having a kid who is older than the maximum allowable age to play a sport that segregates based on age, IS cheating. To do this is unfair to the other team who is likely playing the correct age players and likely at a disadvantage playing against older players. It is also unfair to the regular players on the team who may be riding pine while this older kid plays. The bottom line is that everyone involved on that team in allowing this kid to play, including the other parents who may be aware, the coaches, the parents of the older kid and the kid himself, are cheating, whether anyone looks/enforces a roster or not.
Remember, character is what you do when no one is looking. Clearly, if this coach feels that the rule can be circumvented because "nobody looks at rosters in the fall", he has no character to speak of and isn't someone I'd want having an influence on my family. |
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T13
257 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2013 : 11:58:04
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| Older kids playing with younger kids is ridiculous....coach and kid (his parents) should be ashamed and banned/suspended! |
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billbclk
164 Posts |
Posted - 10/30/2013 : 14:19:12
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Playing kids who are too old IS cheating and could be a sign of a character flaw (by the parent and/or the player depending
on his age). Hopefully this gets vetted out as they progress from year to year.
However, playing against a team that cheats matters if your goal is to win. Otherwise, compete and try to beat them or neutralize
the player(s) in question. When players get to HS they will eventually have to compete with older players. Even now in a lot of
national tournaments (at every age group) teams will bring in “different” players to play in the finals just to get a win.
Bottom line . . . just keep playing . . . keep competing . . . work at getting better and not winning.
If your son has the fundamental talent to play the game (which coaches assume since he is playing for 3-4-6, Northwest Cobb,
Elite Teamers, etc.) he will be much better off having competed against those players and teams.
(As told to me by a DII coach that I got to know as my son went through the recruiting process).
“When we look at players to play here at East Toledo Tech Univ. we look for grades, character, ability to compete and coachability”.
(I made up the school name but the quote is real)
Interestingly enough, last year on our HS team we had a freshmen close a game in the 7th inning and had to pitch against a GA Tech commit (who was a Jr. then and
obviously a tremendously talented player). He got him out and retired the side after the first two batters reached. While that is certainly NOT cheating that is what
the future holds for all players. So you want to find out from game to game, can they compete and get better.
BTW, I have won games against cheaters and lost games against cheaters. I did not care then and certainly don’t care now.
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billbclk
164 Posts |
Posted - 10/30/2013 : 14:40:32
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| BTW for all you guys who think my previous post is way off base you need to know that I made ALL the mistakes parents make when my son was playing travel. I pushed too hard, cared too much, coached WAY too much and helped sucked the love of the game out of him. It took his ECB coach his senior year (focusing only on mental and physical skill development) to help him find that love of the game again. He is at prep school right now waiting to start at the Coast Guard Academy in 2014 (where he will play baseball). |
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Is it ever OK to cheat ?
