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RobDa
33 Posts |
 Posted - 03/23/2013 : 15:10:53
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Holy Moly its a happening north of town
What should you do if a parent watching this go on
What can you do now + later
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AllStar
762 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2013 : 00:29:12
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quote:
Originally posted by RobDa
Holy Moly its a happening north of town
What should you do if a parent watching this go on
What can you do now + later
What do you want to do?
HS is when we completely cut the chord. So far my conversations with my son's coach. And my son is a Junior.
"Glad to meet you coach. (My son) is so excited to be part of the team. Good luck this season."
"Thanks coach." (When he told us we could pull right up to the gate to drop my elderly parents off.)
"Great season, coach." At the end of each season.
I don't agree with every decision they make and would love my son to get more innings/ABs, but that's up to him and the coach. He's a big boy now. Time to make his way.
fwiw-My 8th grade basketball team was 0-11 with only one loss being less than 10 points. As far as I know none of the parents wanted to "do now + later" anything. We all survived somehow. |
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rippit
667 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2013 : 09:35:36
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Crazy isn't it? We know great players sitting or eh or po only when others get 5-6 ABs and play lousy defense. Even know of a couple teams where daddy ball is still alive and well. All these schools are north of town so you are not alone.
Here's the thing: the parents know who deserves to play and who doesn't. They know its all bs and are looking forward to summer ball where the competition is better and the bs stops if you are on a quality team. They talk before, during and after each game.
My son has fun even though he isn't playing his primary position. That's all that matters to me. |
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jacjacatk
154 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2013 : 10:49:20
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quote:
Originally posted by rippit
Here's the thing: the parents know who deserves to play and who doesn't.
Not speaking to your specific situation, this seems like a horrible attitude in general. I'm with AllStar, I doubt the coach knows who I am and my longest conversations with him probably involve getting a lineup card for the PA, and I don't see any particular reason for that to change. |
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rippit
667 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2013 : 11:52:46
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| What? My attitude is bad? I'm all for just going along with things and you have an issue with that? |
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jacjacatk
154 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2013 : 12:20:34
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quote:
Originally posted by rippit
Here's the thing: the parents know who deserves to play and who doesn't. They know its all bs and are looking forward to summer ball where the competition is better and the bs stops if you are on a quality team. They talk before, during and after each game.
I quoted the part I thought was bad, and I'll do it again here, and I also said I couldn't speak to your specific situation.
If you think you know better than the coach, think the HS ball is BS, and chat with other parents about at it every game, you may be in a terrible HS baseball situation. Or you may be a part of the problem.
In my albeit limited experience, unless your coaching staff is so terrible that you need to get the school involved or literally everyone is trying to get them canned, you're better off leaving the HS game to your son and staying away from the sorts of conversations that involve negatives about other players and coaches. And I don't claim to be perfect in this regard, but I do make a conscious effort to focus on the positive on my side of the fence and let my son handle things on his side. |
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Tribe
82 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2013 : 12:25:50
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Are you suggesting that a high school coach, with his livelihood on the line, is intentionally benching superior players and thus losing games?
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2playersmom
59 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2013 : 13:30:48
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Rob, thats sounds like just no fun for anyone involved .
Me I wouldnt want to pay any money for that or have my sons be a part of something so negative thats suposed to be fun
i suspect you have a bad bad dynamic lying underneath maybe the coach i hope the school will bail everyone out while you still have a team
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rippit
667 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2013 : 15:43:21
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Jac: I'm not part of it. I hear it. It happens. It's the same stuff these parents do around teams when their kid is growing up. It's not just our HS. In fact ours may be better than most. I grin and bear it. Did you read the part where I said my son has fun ? Doesn't sound like it. I'm stating facts. For the whiners, maybe they need to hear that the grass isn't always greener.
Tribe: not sure who you were talking to but yeah. There are coaches who do this and continue to get away with it. I'm not kidding.
I get so sick of the whining over here and then the attacks towards those of us who say it like it is.
Back to jac: sounds like you promote school jumping. I bet your kid is one of those who jumps from team to team. Well guess what? Kinda hard to do nice you get to HS, so you'd better find out how to adjust once your kid gets there. Me?? I'm just laughing about all of it. It IS bs in the grand scheme of things. My kid starts. He plays. But I do see other kids not getting an opportunity and I know how good they are whether its our school or other schools in the area. And I hear the parent group asking questions and see them shaking their heads and wondering aloud why so and so plays all the time error after error and for the life if me, I have no good answer. |
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jacjacatk
154 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2013 : 17:26:20
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Maybe I misread your original post, the way I read what I quoted was that it was your opinion, apologies if that's not the case.
Not sure where you'd get the idea I'm promoting school jumping or that my kid team jumps. My point was simply that parents don't know it all (and the amount they know does often seem to be inversley related to their willingness to talk about it) and the ones that think they do and routinely bad mouth the coaches or players really need to take a step back and leave the HS game to the players and coaches. |
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SamQuick
75 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2013 : 19:41:36
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quote:
Originally posted by rippit
Jac: But I do see other kids not getting an opportunity and I know how good they are whether its our school or other schools in the area. And I hear the parent group asking questions and see them shaking their heads and wondering aloud why so and so plays all the time error after error and for the life if me, I have no good answer.
I know where you are coming from. I am not sure about your high school program, but those talented kids are probably learning other life skills like how to hustle their neighbors for money in exchange for candles, cookie dough and coupon cards and the finer points of grounds keeping!
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Tribe
82 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2013 : 09:32:08
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Maybe I'm naive, but I can't imagine what would motivate a coach to intentionally lose games.
If it's obvious to the parents, then the AD would certainly be aware of it....so I suppose he's in on it too?
If it's obvious to the AD, then the principal would be aware of it....the conspiracy grows!
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2013 : 10:09:17
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quote:
Originally posted by RobDa
Holy Moly its a happening north of town
What should you do if a parent watching this go on
What can you do now + later
Not sure how this got turned into a discussion on kids and play time. OP never mentioned that. I know the school OP is talking about, I believe. Just doesn't look like they are any good. Lots of kids getting play time. They just can't hit. If it's who I'm thinking, this is the coach's 4th year and I heard he's leaving after this year.
Any yeah, it's sad about how they are playing. I can't imagine a team going winless, but it may be possible in this case. Man, that would be horrible. I can't imagine losing that many games. Guess you just have to look forward to the summer. |
Edited by - bballman on 03/25/2013 11:04:08 |
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2013 : 10:35:56
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No dog in this fight...yet, but here's my observations based upon my many hours of watching these kids develop from T-Ball to Varsity, and attending some Freshman, JV, and Varsity games to support the program.
The parents, players, and former youth Coaches know how the players stack up against each other, and each players strengths and weaknesses better than the High School coaches do...initially (I'm talking about the Freshman class just 7 weeks into the season).
Remember, some of us have been watching these kids for 10 years, and the Coaches have only been watching the Freshman for ~7 weeks. They are still assessing the talent, and I'm confident by seasons end, they'll have most if it figured out. I'm sure its a painful process if your son is on the wrong side of the Coaches learning curve.
By this time in the JV Season, the Coaches have caught up to us in knowledge of each players skills. Only took them a year to learn what took us 10 years to learn. If you still think your son isn't getting a fair shake, it's likely your own assessment that's wrong.
Is there some biased? Sure, but it's not personal. The Coaches process of assessing skills is just likely different than our own.
The Coaches want to figure it all out as fast as possible so they can put the best team on the field. Some politically connected players might get an edge early on, but the edge seldom lasts beyond the Freshman season. Rubber meets the road in JV tryouts.
The Freshman season seems to be the toughest, and each season thereafter looks to me like it gets easier from the players and parents perspective. The player must stay positive, work hard, and stick with it to overcome the obstacles he comes across along the way.
Easy for me to have these opinions when my son is an 8th Grader, but sometimes not having a personal stake helps to see things clearer.
I just hope I can retain this clarity when my son is trying out.
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springtime
6 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2013 : 10:58:17
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| What would motivate a coach to intentionally lose games? Well, I don't know if that would be the intent, but my guess is that many HS coaches out there are playing kids that shouldn't be playing or giving them play time at positions they aren't the "best" for because of who they are. Especially in a small school, there are so many directions a coach is pulled. Did the kid's parents give a hefty donation to the athletic booster club, is his uncle on the school board, is his parent a principal, coach, or teacher in the school district, is he being pushed by a board member, and the list goes on and on. IMO, that gives even more motivation to a coach than winning. It's unfortunate but that's where it can be worse than daddy ball. Hopefully, a good coach knows where to draw the line, but not at the expense of his own job! |
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nastycurve
244 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2013 : 14:01:08
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A good coach can usually see talent where it exists. It is also the players job to let the coach know of his skill set and willingness/desire to try out for a position. If a kid doesn't open his mouth about what he can do, then the coach will not know, unless he is a psychic, and from what I heard, psychics make more :-). Players also need to check their attitude, just because you were the beast on your rec/travel team doesn't mean you are automatically generated a spot, its the old fashioned way, you have to earn it.
As far as the OP goes, outside of changing schools, there is really nothing you can do. My advice would be to develop your child individually, participate on a good travel team where he gets lots of work and go to showcases. The college and pro scouts will see him if you make him available. And remember, they don't draft teams with the first pick, baseball is the most individualized team sport there is. |
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F2202
63 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2013 : 03:18:10
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Maybe none of the teachers at this school know anything about baseball?
-IF- I were running a baseball program at a high school, winning at the Freshman and JV levels would not be a priority. Developing the players to be ready to play Varsity if and when the time comes would be.
I realize that everyone wants to win, and that's great. However, sometimes making a kid a PO at that level is designed to mentally prepare him for what its like to be a PO, and how to prepare for each game as a PO.
We also have to look at the varsity team in some situations. Yeah, some sophomore might be the best catcher on the JV team, but unfortunately there is another sophomore catcher already on varsity. So the coach has him playing somewhere else because he knows there is a senior at the position and he's going to need this sophomore to play that spot as a junior.
I'm just saying there are a lot of different variables that can go into the decisions of where kids play (especially at Freshman and JV). Money can also be a factor, and that is a shame, but it happens. We all know it happens.
I don't coach baseball and I don't have any kids, this is just my opinion. |
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11UFAN
149 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2013 : 14:40:00
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It seems to me that high school baseball is much harder on some of the parents than the kids. SOME of the parents can't handle having ZERO control over their sons playing time and cant protect them once they get to high school.
When I read stuff like the parents know who should and shouldnt be playing, coaches are throwing the games by not playing the right guys and bad mouthing coaches and saying they might be influenced to play someone because of who they know it makes me laugh.
Travel Ball is full of this crap and I would venture to say its much more prevalent there than it is in high school. Baseball is a the best sport ever (IMO) but is so much better when parents stay out of it and let the kids play. The big difference in travel and school ball is that you cant jump from team to team if you feel your kid is being slighted.
SOME parents just don't have a realistic view of their sons ability so when they can't jump it drives them crazy, instead of embracing it and telling your son he needs to address whatever his shortcomings are to make the team or earn more playing time.
I had to listen to a parent of a kid that is 50lbs overweight and slow as molasses complain that his kid didnt make his highschool team even though he hit 20 homeruns on the little fields in travel ball the year before.
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AllStar
762 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2013 : 22:14:27
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quote:
Originally posted by 11UFAN
It seems to me that high school baseball is much harder on some of the parents than the kids. SOME of the parents can't handle having ZERO control over their sons playing time and cant protect them once they get to high school.
When I read stuff like the parents know who should and shouldnt be playing, coaches are throwing the games by not playing the right guys and bad mouthing coaches and saying they might be influenced to play someone because of who they know it makes me laugh.
Travel Ball is full of this crap and I would venture to say its much more prevalent there than it is in high school. Baseball is a the best sport ever (IMO) but is so much better when parents stay out of it and let the kids play. The big difference in travel and school ball is that you cant jump from team to team if you feel your kid is being slighted.
SOME parents just don't have a realistic view of their sons ability so when they can't jump it drives them crazy, instead of embracing it and telling your son he needs to address whatever his shortcomings are to make the team or earn more playing time.
I had to listen to a parent of a kid that is 50lbs overweight and slow as molasses complain that his kid didnt make his highschool team even though he hit 20 homeruns on the little fields in travel ball the year before.
Well said! |
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funnyhop
74 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2013 : 22:44:53
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High School Baseball is awesome! No more Daddy Ball. No more over hyping kids because their dads were bench coaches, head coaches, assistants etc....The talent levels are objectively scouted. Sure, it might take a few weeks to get it all straight. But, the coaches get it right.
The parents are the ones who need to take a good dose of reality..........and leave the kids and HS coaches alone.........cook some hotdogs, line the field, work concessions and shut the pie hole. |
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2013 : 23:20:10
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| My HS coach was an idiot, there were always a few dads up his butt trying to make sure their kids got playing time. One kid had 1 extra base hit all season but started every game at 3rd base. Didn't hurt his last name and the city I'm from are the same, I'm sure the hefty "Homerun Club" donation didn't hurt his cause either. Our coach was a health teacher with very little baseball experience. Now I only went to one HS but I would assume that my old school isn't the only one with a former soccer coach that moved to the diamond. |
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11UFAN
149 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2013 : 09:50:04
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Every varsity program I know of whether 1A or 6A has one goal. Go as deep as you can in the play-off's. Most view their JV programs as a farm system for Varsity first, winning comes second.
It may be frustrating for travel ball parents who are 100% focused on putting their son in a good position to play certain postions or bat in a certain spot in the line-up but it is what it is. Personally I think it is a very very good thing for both the parents and the kids. If you embrace it both you and your son can benefit greatly from the experience.
I know their are exceptions and I am sure there are high school coaches that aren't very good or are influenced to play certain kids but I think this happens to a much smaller extent than in travel ball where it is wide-spread, particularly on the little fields.
As far as picking the best players for the high school teams, the vast majority of the kids on the teams play or have played travel ball so you definitely have an edge if your playing travel ball now, parents just need to be realistic and make sure your son is having FUN! There is nothing better than playing with your friends from school, don't take the experience away from them because you aren't getting what you the parent wants. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2013 : 11:12:08
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Well, I've been sitting here reading this thread an thinking. And I came up with the fact that there will ALWAYS be perceived "inequities" in baseball - or any other sport for that matter. Think about it. Beyond HS, when you get to college, who do you think the coach will give the benefit of the doubt and more chances to when it comes to play time - the player that is on a 50% scholarship, or the walk on or guy who is on a minimum scholarship. If you ever got to the MLB, who is going to get the benefit of the doubt, the player making $12 million a year, or the 2nd year guy making the league minimum? Coaches will always have other factors to consider. Players will ALWAYS be faced with obstacles to overcome.
Really, you can translate that into real life as well. Sitting around complaining about it will do nothing for you or your kid. I believe, and what I tell my son is that if you want to play, you better be much better than the players you are competing against, or you won't get in. Work hard enough that the coaches can't help but play you. There have been times my son has said something about play time over the years and I always come back with basically - well, you want to play, do better.
JMHO. |
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RGA
6 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2013 : 13:27:59
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Right on bballman. Here's the real deal. Nine spots in the lineup. If your kid is good enough, he will play. If he's not, he won't. Whining does no good and public whining eventually gets to the kid and teaches him to whine instead of holding himself accountable. Teachable moments and life lessons abound ---- work harder & smarter or tell the kid to adjust his sails if need be.
Old saying in coaching about parents, "they always want the best 8 plus my kid." |
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rippit
667 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2013 : 19:40:08
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| Sorry, but the best 9 don't always play. You don't keep .500+ hitters in the dugout because the best 9 are on the field unless your agenda is something OTHER than winning. |
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RobDa
33 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2013 : 20:22:37
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RGA and Ball Man,
the words are good but that applies to coaches that really are coaches and know what they are doing
also important : making decisions to benefit the team , not for their own personal issues
then the best players will be on the field
doesn't happen as much as you may think . We have seen some really crazy stuff last couple years starting with the best guys not being on the field and thats multiple
some people should just stick with teaching gym class  |
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can a high school team go winless?
