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baseballallday
10 Posts |
 Posted - 11/09/2012 : 13:07:24
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I'm trying to understand the reasoning so maybe some of you can help. You have Teams A, B and C, A being the more elite team. Teams B and C will play in most of the same tournaments as A and are very competitive teams. Why would a player choose to play for Team A if they are going to be the bench player when if they chose teams B or C they would play every game? I'm talking more about the teenage age groups.
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2012 : 14:29:24
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| EGO. |
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in_the_know
985 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2012 : 14:55:16
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Not everyone chooses a team based on how they'll finish in tournaments. Much of the decision is based on geographic convenience, cost, coaching, friends, etc. Ego may play a part for some, but if they ride pine all year, if that's their reason, they'll be one and done.
A good travel team or program does the bulk of it's development and work at practice. Ever wonder why an elite team becomes elite? Players want to play there. So what's the attraction? Good coaching and development. A player needs game reps, but even more importantly, needs solid fundamental teaching and reps at practice. I've never seen a good program that gives more reps to their starters than their bench players. Add that to the other reasons above and it makes sense to what would otherwise appear on the surface as questionable. |
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CharlieSpikes
12 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2012 : 15:17:55
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EGO -- 95%
ITK's otherwise rationale response -- 5% |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2012 : 15:29:43
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I don't totally agree ITK. When you get to the HS years - that's what I think baseballallday is talking about - there are many of the elite teams that almost never practice. I would pretty much guarantee the 16u Astros, 17u Braves and 18u Yankees may not have a single practice all year. They are about showcasing the kids on the team. If you have a kid on one of those teams that sits the bench, they are there so they can say they are on that team. I know 643 holds very good practices for their HS level teams once or twice a week during the season, but there are others that don't practice very much. Most of the Elite level teams figure their players have already honed their skills and just want them to play.
I'm not saying all Elite level teams are like this, but more than you may think. |
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in_the_know
985 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2012 : 15:56:33
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| Charlie, My response is geared more toward the older age groups (14/15 and up). I completely agree with your percentages on the 13u and under. The OP specifically mentioned Teens, so I was thinking more along those lines. |
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2012 : 17:01:38
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| There are plenty of role player kids on the elite major teams....but I've never seen a kid who plays less than 25% of the time come back the next year...pitcher only kids are a different story of course |
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baseballallday
10 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2012 : 19:02:25
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| I was talking about more of the high school aged kids. I've seen boys leave a team (I guess the grass is always greener) that played all the time only to play in less than half of the games on the more "elite" team, in the same geographical area. How can this be the best move for the kid? Isn't it the parent's responsibility to guide teenagers with poor decision making skills (all teens) to what is best for them?? I can see where some will let them make the choice that they regret as a learning lesson but I just don't get the sense that is what is going on in most cases. |
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rippit
667 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2012 : 19:30:11
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quote:
Originally posted by baseballallday
I'm trying to understand the reasoning so maybe some of you can help. You have Teams A, B and C, A being the more elite team. Teams B and C will play in most of the same tournaments as A and are very competitive teams. Why would a player choose to play for Team A if they are going to be the bench player when if they chose teams B or C they would play every game? I'm talking more about the teenage age groups.
For us it was because he liked playing with team A more. He played like he was inspired. He'd rather sub on that team than start on the other teams. And yes. The practice is what we were both after. |
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bballmom5
12 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2012 : 23:49:23
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| Maybe he wanted the challenge and believed he could work hard enough to be starter on A team. |
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TalentBB
4 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2012 : 20:19:38
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| I may be in over my head with commenting on this topic but my child is new to East Cobb. We are here not for fame but for our son to learn more than we as parents can teach him. Is it more expensive? YES. But as long as our son is dedicated and still wanting to learn the game then we as parents will provide him with the best place and tools we can. So far were extremely happy with our decision. We are the Titans. |
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baseball papa
123 Posts |
Posted - 11/10/2012 : 22:12:39
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| Papa "Remembers the Titans". You have chosen well but I am sure that you did not choose to play with the Titans because the name started with East Cobb. I know your Coaches and I know your players and if it had been the B72 Titans it would have been the same good choice. The name will never and should never define the team but the team can and should define the name. It is my humble opinion that the name East Cobb never did anything to make a team better but the organization has done much to instill a sense of pride and a winning attitude that has set the bar at an extremely high level. The major difference we are now seeing that wasn't there in year's past is that there is now many options available to get the same quality training and development that was once only available at East Cobb. East Cobb is still and will always will be a Special baseball place but it is no longer the "Only Game in Town". |
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10bbizz
11 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2012 : 06:26:15
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| We chose East Cobb or should I say East Cobb chose my boy and he excepted. What a great decision. My son has had some good coaches in the past but nothing like Coach Roberts, Coach Pat and Coach Clark. We also chose this team because we knew it would push him to the limits and he would compete at the highest level. I know kids aren't signed at 14 but I also know that him playing against 15 & 16 yr olds puts him in front of recruiters at an early age so at least he can start being on their radar as a potential prospect. |
Edited by - 10bbizz on 11/11/2012 07:32:37 |
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bkball
173 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2012 : 10:25:47
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Well the spring season hasn't started yet so none of us knows how any of our decisions will turn out of if we or our son will be happy with those decisions.
A great deal can happen over the course of the season but I do agree with everyone you should be more concerned with the coaching you are getting than the talent on a team. I would let my son play for a great coach if I knew he would get the reps in practice and get chances in games to earn himself a spot. If I knew a team was not going to practice much but my son was good enough to start had the fundamentals of the sport and good enough to start on a great team I would do that too. For me it is all about good coaching.
Whether in game, or practice. I also tend to think most coaching staffs are better that do not have sons on the team. |
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jalex
25 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2012 : 11:53:51
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| I would not want my hitter to sit much at 14. This is a game of reps, we got to get those at bats. I would go with the other teams. Most of the elite teams at east cobb do not develop, it is about showcasing the atheletes. I think 14 is a little early to stack a team and then you are forced to move kids around every few innings. When you get to the older elite teams you do not see all that movement. If you look at the 17 year old braves and the 16 year old astros, which is pretty much your d- atheletes, I would bet that more than half of those kids played on non elite teams at 14 and 15. Also I would think that less than 50% on those rosters came up through the astros system starting at 14. My point is this there is more than one way to skin a cat and I dont think it is a necessity for your childs development to play on the an elite team. I have been at east cobb for 6 years and I have seen many kids drafted and signed to major d-1 schools. The things I have noticed that they all had in common was that they all had outside trainers(speed and agility, strength conditioning, pitching coach, hitting instructions and fielding instructions). |
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ABC_Baseball
90 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2012 : 13:08:30
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You know Jalex, my 8 year old's hitting coach, who I think I want him to exclusively start working with, is a former Atlanta Braves player from the 80's. He mentioned that he would not worry about playing FOR east cobb at this age. He was of the opinion that they were going to have pretty good pitching.
This is our first travel ball go around and I'm not sure how good ECB's pitching will be. We have beat teams that have beat the 8U Titans and that team we beat said nobody had put the ball over the plate as much and as fast as the boys on our team. I did think that what my son's hitting coach was saying did make sense. If they have a really good program, you want to play against them. Get the reps against them at this point, join them later. |
Edited by - ABC_Baseball on 11/12/2012 13:19:21 |
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10bbizz
11 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2012 : 13:58:37
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| I guess if my son hadn't made the Astros 14u squad I would feel the same way as some of you guys posting on this subject. |
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bball2008
100 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2012 : 14:00:40
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A very small percentage of players that end up on the elite 16 and 17u Astros and Braves teams were Astros at 13 or 14 and here is why. Most of the boys that make those 13 and 14u astros teams are the ones that have hit puberty early and are fully grown or nearly so. They just simply have more muscle mass and coordination than many others at that age. Many of the boys that will ultimately play for those elite 16 and 17u teams were gangly, awkward 13 and 14 yr olds but their immature bodies have a much higher ceiling for performance later on after they develop.
A full grown 14 yr old that throws 80mph and can hit balls 350' very likely will throw 80mph and hit balls 350' at 17 yrs old.
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DecaturDad
619 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2012 : 15:27:38
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quote:
Originally posted by 10bbizz
I guess if my son hadn't made the Astros 14u squad I would feel the same way as some of you guys posting on this subject.
Not sure how this turned into an East Cobb discussion, but there are some 14us out here that may have made the Astros 14u squad if they had tried out. Not everyone has a desire to play in East Cobb, even for the Astros. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2012 : 16:18:03
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I agree DecaturDad. This thread is really not about ECB. Maybe I started it by stating that the 16u Astros, 17u Braves and 18u Yankees don't really practice at all. I don't think anyone is saying it's bad to play for an ECB top team. Far from it. If you can make it and play, you are a very good ball player. The question was why would a kid/family choose to join a top notch team and then just sit the bench? I still say - at least in part - it is ego. It's nice to say you play for the Astros. If you just sit the bench, it doesn't do you any good and you'd be better off playing for another good team and actually playing against these guys.
And, I'll just throw in there, if you are under 16 years old, it doesn't matter in terms of recruiting for the next level. 16+, your goal is to be playing in front of the scouts and getting noticed. I'll be the first to admit that playing for the 16 Astros or 17 Braves will give you a leg up. However, you must be playing, not just sitting on the bench. Scouts care about how you play, not just the fact that you are on the roster. |
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Hitman
33 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2012 : 16:41:57
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| In North Georgia there are several good program / teams, but living in Gwinnett, East Cobb was never seriously considered. Still we have managed to get good training and development and made our High School Varsity team as a Freshman. We even had a heck of a run in the state playoffs and we didn't just warm the bench. Play where ever you feel is the best fit for your own situation, everyone cannot afford some of these "elite" programs. |
Edited by - Hitman on 11/12/2012 19:47:56 |
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10bbizz
11 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2012 : 21:09:10
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I'll be glad when it starts to matter. When my son was 8 and in coach pitch we were told baseball won't matter till the kids start hitting against pitchers. Then we made it or so we thought until we found out that it wouldn't matter until they turn 12 and 13 and these kids were going through puberty. Made it and then found out it didn't matter till they turned 14 and got on the "BIG" field, here we are and now I find out it won't matter till the are 16 or 17. I guess at that age everyone will say it won't matter till they sign with a college and at that point it won't matter till they sign pro. I can't wait till it matters!
On the national level the question has often been asked which organization presents the best program, which program is out front with coaches and developing the most athlete's that play at the college or professional level and the one brand that always leads the pack has been East Cobb and I thought this would be something Georgians would be proud of so what did my son do, go out for and make the team. Now I find out East Cobb doesn't matter.
In and at the end I think what matters is my son and I have had and hope to continue to have a blast and we will always choose higher level teams.
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Edited by - 10bbizz on 11/12/2012 22:09:52 |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2012 : 22:22:25
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10bbizz, in a way you are right. It's all a matter of perspective. If you notice, I said it didn't matter in terms of recruiting. What does matter - at any age is #1 - developing and maintaining a love for the game and #2 - developing the fundamentals that will hopefully take you as far as you desire to go. If that can be done at ECB, that's fine. If it can be done at your local rec league, that's fine too. ECB has done a lot for baseball here in Atlanta and nationally as well. However, they are not the only game in town anymore. And remember, not all ECB teams are equal. That's part of why ECB has lost some of the allure. It has become watered down. You can get yourself on a nationally recognized elite team or an average AA team. There are plenty of places to develop #1 & #2, inside or outside of ECB.
Pick a team where you can do that. Don't pick a team for the name or prestige and wind up sitting the bench. That's what this post is all about. |
Edited by - bballman on 11/13/2012 08:51:25 |
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bkball
173 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2012 : 09:08:57
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I think about the "well it doesn't matter until" phrase all the time.
To be honest it matters right now to the kid.
If he is enjoying himself that is what it is about.
I think a lot of people are jealous when it comes to some kids being better than others, hoping theirs catches up or others fall. Life lesson some kids work their butts off harder than others and will never be as good as the some that walk out and are just good. If you focus on the now the future will probably take care of itself.
10BBizz your kid is an awesome baseball player that works hard, as are all the Astros and most players on the elite type teams, and it is an honor to be able to play on one of those teams. All anyone can do is do what they think is best for their son. |
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Newbie BB Mom
141 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2012 : 09:25:33
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Out of curiosity, I looked at the ECB Astros 2011 USSSA roster.
Out of 20 players listed, 9 were playing for the Astros for the first time, 3 were on their 2nd year and another 3 were on their 3rd. Only one had played for the Astros his entire travel ball career (7 years). In addition, only 3 of the 20 had been playing on any ECB team for 5 years or more. None of the 9 Astros first-timers had played for an ECB team before. In other words, about half the Astros team was not only new to the Astros, but new to ECB.
Also, 8 of the 20 had played on at least one AAA or AA team in the past and 8 of the 20 do not appear to have played travel ball until they were 10 or older.
I know these rosters aren't completely accurate records of a player's history, but I think it backs up the idea that there are several ways to skin this cat and it is completely possible to come to ECB later and play at the highest level. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2012 : 09:56:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Newbie BB Mom
Out of curiosity, I looked at the ECB Astros 2011 USSSA roster.
Out of 20 players listed, 9 were playing for the Astros for the first time, 3 were on their 2nd year and another 3 were on their 3rd. Only one had played for the Astros his entire travel ball career (7 years). In addition, only 3 of the 20 had been playing on any ECB team for 5 years or more. None of the 9 Astros first-timers had played for an ECB team before. In other words, about half the Astros team was not only new to the Astros, but new to ECB.
Also, 8 of the 20 had played on at least one AAA or AA team in the past and 8 of the 20 do not appear to have played travel ball until they were 10 or older.
I know these rosters aren't completely accurate records of a player's history, but I think it backs up the idea that there are several ways to skin this cat and it is completely possible to come to ECB later and play at the highest level.
What age Astros did you look up? |
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Choosing higher level teams
