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funnyhop
74 Posts |
 Posted - 10/09/2012 : 10:17:39
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College recruiter looking at two kids:
One kid has a high level of baseball talent but is struggling to keep B's and C's in high school.
The other is a straight A student, but is an average ball player.
By "high level" and "average" I mean under the umbrella of travel baseball.
Which one do you choose? |
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rangerman22
6 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2012 : 13:37:15
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No brainer, they are going to take the kid with good grades. College baseball programs get very few athletic scholarships to field a team. I think the number is close to 12. That means they have 12 scholarships for a team of 35. The reason they target the good grades is because the kid with the good grades has the potential to get an academic scholarship therefore leaving more in the baseball bank to recruit more players.
You will hardly ever see a full ride baseball scholarship. If you do 99.9% of the time that kid will never see a classroom. |
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AllStar
762 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2012 : 13:55:02
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quote:
Originally posted by funnyhop
College recruiter looking at two kids:
One kid has a high level of baseball talent but is struggling to keep B's and C's in high school.
The other is a straight A student, but is an average ball player.
By "high level" and "average" I mean under the umbrella of travel baseball.
Which one do you choose?
I would say they would probably go with the better player. I think the key is, "...everything being equal...", that is, if the talent level is the same, then look at the grades. With the difference in talent you imply here, a coach is going with the player that can help his team.
"Struggling to make B's and C's..." might not be acceptable in many of our homes, but it's plenty to keep an NCAA player eligible. |
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funnyhop
74 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2012 : 14:57:18
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Uh Oh, two replies and I think I am hearing two different things.
Not sure if struggling to make B's and C's in high school translates to struggling to make B's and C's in college.
In other words, I struggled in high school to make B's and C's, did not play baseball, and REALLY struggled to keep a C average in college. I can just imagine what a student athlete has to go through.
Thanks to both for your inputs............and more inputs welcome. |
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AllStar
762 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2012 : 15:45:03
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You are definitely hearing two different things. I guess I'd put it this way based on your description of the two players.
Pitcher throws 87-92 the other 80-85. Both have about the same control and 2 or 3 pitches. One is a so-so student, the other is a good student. Which one do you think South Carolina talks to?
I've never been through the process, so I may be way off base. |
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Mets69
70 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2012 : 16:38:23
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| Why can't the answer be neither of them? Or ... it depends? I would guess most coaches would want the most talented player that can also keep up with the academic workload at the school. I've seen college scouts from some of the more "academic" schools (at the Perfect Game tournaments) specifically ask about a kids GPA or SAT scores, and if they don't meet the teams criteria, they will pass on the kid and move on to the next one. In addition to the scholarship angle of combining athletic with academic scholarships, coaches would prefer to not have to worry about whether a kid will be able to keep up with the scholastic workload at the school. |
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RACGOFAR
208 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2012 : 16:52:31
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Coach Perno at UGA in a parent clinic last year said they look for three things: Academics, Attitude and Ability. He said all three are equally important, but they would not take a chance on a kid with low grades or a history of problems because they can't replace him if he does not pan out. Listening to him, it struck me that lots of players have the academics and the attitude, but its in the ability where the separation occurs.
In your example, a RH pitcher throwing 88-92 mph is going to be a prospect (and MLB draft pick) at every level of college ball, D1, D2, D3, NAIA, Juco. His grades and attitude will determine which school will be interested in him and what level he winds up at.
A RH pitcher with a 3.7 average and throwing 79-83 mph would be coveted by the private D1 schools who have high academic standards, but the major D1 colleges will not likely look at him because of his ability.
The BB scholarship rules at D1 level are crazy. Ex: They can only give a total of 12 full scholarships, but they have to split up those 12 scholarships among 27 of the 35 players on their roster. The other 8 spots for "walk ons" they recruit just as hard as they do for the 27 scholarship spots. |
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ryaajus
23 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2012 : 18:54:02
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| From what I've heard from scouts and a few recently drafted players rangerman22 is absolutely correct. Most cases, a kid has to qualify for a partial academic scholarship as well. He's also correct about the number of scholarships. We had a scout at our practice this summer and he talked to a couple of parents including me and the first thing he asked me was what high school is he attending and what is his gpa. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2012 : 20:39:14
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The answer is, it depends. D1 gets 11.7 scholarships, D2 gets 9. Both depend if the school is fully funded. Because of the scholarship limitations, coaches are looking for both highly talented kids and kids with high academics. Part of this is because they can give baseball money to kids without the high academics and they also need high academic kids who can get a lot of academic money and they don't need to use their baseball money on. That's not to say you can't be an academic kid and not get baseball money, but coaches do need a certain number of kids they don't need to give baseball money to.
It is a mixture and balancing act a coach has to deal with every year. How much baseball money do I have, how many kids do I need to recruit - so, how many high academic kids do I need to look for that I don't have to give baseball money to. Your best chances of getting recruited are to be high talent, high academic. Then the coach can get you in either way. Hope that makes sense. It will also depend on what the program needs. If they have 8 SSs already, they may not be willing to give another SS baseball money, but may take you because of your athletic ability and hitting if you are willing to come on the team with only academic money.
Also, D3 does not offer ANY baseball money. It's all academic. I think JUCO and NAIA are a little more generous with the money, but I'm not familiar with their rules. |
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coachdan06
433 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2012 : 00:07:10
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quote:
Originally posted by RACGOFAR
Coach Perno at UGA in a parent clinic last year said they look for three things: Academics, Attitude and Ability. He said all three are equally important, but they would not take a chance on a kid with low grades or a history of problems because they can't replace him if he does not pan out. Listening to him, it struck me that lots of players have the academics and the attitude, but its in the ability where the separation occurs.
In your example, a RH pitcher throwing 88-92 mph is going to be a prospect (and MLB draft pick) at every level of college ball, D1, D2, D3, NAIA, Juco. His grades and attitude will determine which school will be interested in him and what level he winds up at.
A RH pitcher with a 3.7 average and throwing 79-83 mph would be coveted by the private D1 schools who have high academic standards, but the major D1 colleges will not likely look at him because of his ability.
Heya mr racgofar im tryin to follow along on this but you got me confused :
what is the difference between the private d1 schools and the Major d-1 schools that you mention above |
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in_the_know
985 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2012 : 09:48:51
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quote:
Originally posted by coachdan06
quote:
Originally posted by RACGOFAR
Coach Perno at UGA in a parent clinic last year said they look for three things: Academics, Attitude and Ability. He said all three are equally important, but they would not take a chance on a kid with low grades or a history of problems because they can't replace him if he does not pan out. Listening to him, it struck me that lots of players have the academics and the attitude, but its in the ability where the separation occurs.
In your example, a RH pitcher throwing 88-92 mph is going to be a prospect (and MLB draft pick) at every level of college ball, D1, D2, D3, NAIA, Juco. His grades and attitude will determine which school will be interested in him and what level he winds up at.
A RH pitcher with a 3.7 average and throwing 79-83 mph would be coveted by the private D1 schools who have high academic standards, but the major D1 colleges will not likely look at him because of his ability.
Heya mr racgofar im tryin to follow along on this but you got me confused :
what is the difference between the private d1 schools and the Major d-1 schools that you mention above
When I read that I thought about a comparison of Duke and Vanderbilt to North Carolina and Tennessee. Not uncommon that the private schools who play D1 level concentrate on perhaps the lesser athletically gifted in favor of the more academically gifted. To maintain eligibility, students must maintain their GPA's. No offense to anyone here, but much more easily done at UNC & UT than Duke & Vandy. |
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RACGOFAR
208 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2012 : 09:59:35
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| The private schools can do more academic money and financial aid than the public schools. |
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RACGOFAR
208 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2012 : 10:03:46
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| And the private schools generally have higher academic standards, so they really have to take kids that they know can handle that. There are a tone of small private D1 programs, which are more typical than Duke, Vandy. |
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diamonddad
59 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2012 : 11:44:51
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From what we have experienced talent "almost always" trumps grades. D1 schools will make sure that when you get there you have the resources necessary to ensure that you do not fail. It's in there best interest to do so. I know first hand that LSU, Georgia, South Carolina, Clemson, Florida, etc. all have great student-athletic programs in place that make it mandatory for all incoming freshmen to attend regular study halls and mentoring sessions to make sure they are managing there time properly. they also have systems in place that monitor grades so that they can identify potential issues early to prevent them from being a problem.
I've heard from several head coaches they you have to try to fail in order to not succeed in most of these programs. D2 schools may be different as they might not have the same amount of money to put into the student-athletic programs, but I would think the system is similar. |
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zwndad
170 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2012 : 13:22:13
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I think the bottom line is this ... If you have the talent, you need to work as hard as possible to maximize your high school GPA. You want your grades to be an asset, not a liability. Guys going into 9th grade need to understand that. 9th & 10th grade can put you in a hole you can't dig out of.
If you already have the grades, but the top tier talent isn't there, then make sure you are focusing on the right schools to match your baseball, college life and post-college goals.
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2012 : 14:27:00
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quote:
Originally posted by zwndad
I think the bottom line is this ... If you have the talent, you need to work as hard as possible to maximize your high school GPA. You want your grades to be an asset, not a liability. Guys going into 9th grade need to understand that. 9th & 10th grade can put you in a hole you can't dig out of.
If you already have the grades, but the top tier talent isn't there, then make sure you are focusing on the right schools to match your baseball, college life and post-college goals.
Excellent post. Right on point. |
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diamonddad
59 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2012 : 16:46:06
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quote:
Originally posted by zwndad
I think the bottom line is this ... If you have the talent, you need to work as hard as possible to maximize your high school GPA. You want your grades to be an asset, not a liability. Guys going into 9th grade need to understand that. 9th & 10th grade can put you in a hole you can't dig out of.
If you already have the grades, but the top tier talent isn't there, then make sure you are focusing on the right schools to match your baseball, college life and post-college goals.
Bballman, the bit about your grades being an asset and not a liability is spot on! Getting into the hole takes literally no effort at all, but getting back out will take the rest of your high school career. My 10th grader is living this every day now that he has just verbally committed to an SEC D1 program. Thank God it wasn't too late!
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2012 : 19:56:40
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| Diamonddad, Zwndad said that, not me (can't take credit), although I agree with it 100%. Your son must be quite a ballplayer if he has committed to an SEC team as a sophomore!!! Best of luck to him on his baseball journey. Enjoy the rest of his time in HS, it will be over before you know it. Believe me, I know. Seems like yesterday my son was a freshman in HS and he is now a freshman in college. Where did all the time go??? |
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diamonddad
59 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2012 : 21:22:14
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quote:
Originally posted by bballman
Diamonddad, Zwndad said that, not me (can't take credit), although I agree with it 100%. Your son must be quite a ballplayer if he has committed to an SEC team as a sophomore!!! Best of luck to him on his baseball journey. Enjoy the rest of his time in HS, it will be over before you know it. Believe me, I know. Seems like yesterday my son was a freshman in HS and he is now a freshman in college. Where did all the time go???
Sorry Zwndad, that's what I get for trying to make a comment when I should be working! |
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bbmom2
119 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2012 : 08:21:14
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| This is sort of on topic and sort of off topic - on the subject of baseball scholarships - if a school does not have a football team, do they receive more scholarships overall - more to swimming, more to volleyball, more to wrestling and more to baseball than if they use the bazillion scholarships that football gets since they don't have a team? Or doesn't matter - those scholarships can't be used since their is no football team and all other scholarships remain the same? Always wondered this... |
Edited by - bbmom2 on 10/12/2012 08:38:04 |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2012 : 09:08:54
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| Doesn't matter. NCAA regulates how many scholarships per sport per Division. My son's team does not have a football team. Coaches made a point of saying that not having a football team actually freed up more money for the other sports in terms of facilities, uniforms, field, etc. But scholarships don't go up. |
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in_the_know
985 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2012 : 09:50:21
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quote:
Originally posted by bbmom2
This is sort of on topic and sort of off topic - on the subject of baseball scholarships - if a school does not have a football team, do they receive more scholarships overall - more to swimming, more to volleyball, more to wrestling and more to baseball than if they use the bazillion scholarships that football gets since they don't have a team? Or doesn't matter - those scholarships can't be used since their is no football team and all other scholarships remain the same? Always wondered this...
No, a school cannot "move" scholarships between sports. The NCAA regulates, by sport, what is available. Regardless of whether a school has 30 sports teams or one. Level playing field from a scholarship available perspective. |
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bbmom2
119 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2012 : 11:52:54
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| Thanks bballman and intheknow... more curious and wondered about it. |
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funnyhop
74 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2012 : 13:32:02
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| Very interesting and informative thread. I guess the best thing to do is keep working on skills AND grades..........something positive is bound to happen. |
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2012 : 15:34:17
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| Thanks Title IX!!! |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2012 : 17:52:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Spartan4
Thanks Title IX!!!
Don't even get me started. |
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College Recruiting - Which Kid Do You Choose?
