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coachdan06
433 Posts |
 Posted - 10/01/2012 : 01:31:05
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hey yall were hearing more all the time about kids dropping from their school team and jumping over to a alternate team - theres a sOurthern prospects and theres a east cobb program just for this
word is they both have a lotta kids who just dont want go back to the high school team and some say they have some really good ones coming in too . that means its not just they who couldn't make the team
i hear this happen a little some I think its nothing . I hear this happening like now im thinking somethings up
SO Whats Up ?!
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AllStar
762 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2012 : 12:11:35
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All the Varsity and JV players from my son's team are coming back.
High Schools probably aren't invulnerable, though. If a player's dad thinks that his son's talent isn't being developed and the 4 months on the High School team are wasted time, then a lot of families I know would make the switch if there was a viable option. |
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2playersmom
59 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2012 : 13:41:57
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Dan , what area of Atlanta do you live at ?
Around north end there is a lot of frankly stupid going ons with the high school coaches .
Remember that the schools have the parents pay the way so it really can be disgusting when ya have to pay to watch all of it !Summer play you can choose those coaches but not high school theires the problem.
We looked in to one of the org's you mention last year and didnt do it , but did hear a lot of reasons why people were : mainly Coaches ethics and behavior .
We will look at it again this spring |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2012 : 14:36:40
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quote:
Originally posted by 2playersmom
We looked in to one of the org's you mention last year and didnt do it , but did hear a lot of reasons why people were : mainly Coaches ethics and behavior .
I think that is the reason most of the people gave. However, most, if not all of them were people who did not make their HS teams. Those who don't have the talent to play will make excuses and blame others for why it's not happening for them.
I watched several of these Southern Prospect League games last year and the talent was, overall, sub-par. There were a few good players, but most of them were cut from very good HS programs. They probably would have played on many other HS teams that were not powerhouse programs, but, they were cut nonetheless.
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loveforthegame25
448 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2012 : 18:55:57
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| I'm wondering where all this talk is coming from. My son goes to a Cherokee county high school that has all its kids playing fall baseball. What schools are experiencing kids jumping ship from their high school teams? |
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yarddog
48 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2012 : 02:17:12
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My son graduated from a HS that has a top notch baseball program from Cobb County last year and I haven't heard about any members of his old team playing for the Southern Prospect League. I could understand your reasons for leaving if the HS program is the laughing stock of the region or if your son got cut from a powerful program.
Robda - Most good responsible HS coaches don't want to talk to the player’s families relating to team policies or playing time. If your feelings get hurt, they don't care. The days of daddy ball are long gone. I have not heard of any players (or families) walking away from a good responsible HS coach. I have heard of players being kicked off the team by that same coach because they couldn't follow the team rules or were raised in a way to show disrespect towards others including coaches.
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Edited by - yarddog on 10/02/2012 06:46:29 |
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coachdan06
433 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2012 : 05:15:53
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[quote]Originally posted by 2playersmom
Dan , what area of Atlanta do you live at ?
Beautiful Downtown Peachtree City 
Say Goodnight Dan |
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Dr. Old School
314 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2012 : 08:35:55
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I suspect there are some kids that fall into the category of actually making the HS team but being stuck behind a player one grade ahead and spending several seasons being the back-up. People try to say that being part of the team is what is important but not playing because HS coaches want to have a primary and a back-up at most positions (and won't use back-up players in other positions) makes for long seasons. Then they start thinking "Why would I want to try to play in college and go through the same thing?" (Now as adults we see that how college play should be significantly different than HS but as a teenager, it is sometimes harder to see without more life experience.)
For kids like this, some may look and think "Hey I would be better off playing in a HS Alternative league where I can play and get my development in rather than sitting the bench and getting sub-par development work in practice (I will argue that most HS programs don't do a good job of utilizing their practice times. If they did, you would see more bunting to move the runner, hit and runs, developing hitting behind the runner, sac flies, better relays, etc. Can you imagine what travel coaches would do with 12-15 hours a week of practice time on a dedicated field?) |
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2playersmom
59 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2012 : 12:35:33
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Dan , you are dateing yourself with the Laugh-In reference ! Funny !
Cant mention names but can say that a local player who played alternative league and not high school ball this spring he hit a long 3 run homerun over centerfield fence this last weekend . With a wooden bat !
I dont think he would have trouble making the high school team and needs no excuses.
We feel the alternative leagues are wonderful , just as in a business setting where competition makes everyone better -- if they choose to be better . |
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gasbag
281 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2012 : 18:43:59
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I'm wondering if it's the parents ego below or the kid whom instigates this ? Seems nowadays, instant gratification is where it's at. My little Johnny should be batting fourth and starting...no matter he's a freshman and there are two upper classmen ahead of him. Ever heard of a depth chart ? What are we doing to our kids and what are we teaching them ? Used to be an underclassmen making the Varsity team was an honor....not so much nowadays. Pretty sad really.
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Old School
I suspect there are some kids that fall into the category of actually making the HS team but being stuck behind a player one grade ahead and spending several seasons being the back-up. People try to say that being part of the team is what is important but not playing because HS coaches want to have a primary and a back-up at most positions (and won't use back-up players in other positions) makes for long seasons. Then they start thinking "Why would I want to try to play in college and go through the same thing?" (Now as adults we see that how college play should be significantly different than HS but as a teenager, it is sometimes harder to see without more life experience.)
For kids like this, some may look and think "Hey I would be better off playing in a HS Alternative league where I can play and get my development in rather than sitting the bench and getting sub-par development work in practice (I will argue that most HS programs don't do a good job of utilizing their practice times. If they did, you would see more bunting to move the runner, hit and runs, developing hitting behind the runner, sac flies, better relays, etc. Can you imagine what travel coaches would do with 12-15 hours a week of practice time on a dedicated field?)
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rippit
667 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2012 : 20:19:17
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My reply/ unproven theory to gasbag:
It seems that frosh get moved to varsity right from the get go if they are remotely good enough that you know they will be a superstar with a couple more years of growing.
Why? So they can freeze them aka make them suffer the sit out rule if they suddenly transfer.
Truth or fiction? True, they will play a whole lot more JV, but just enough V behind somebody to lock them in. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2012 : 21:12:36
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| Rippit, doesn't matter if you play varsity or not. If you switch schools, the rule is you cannot play varsity for a year, unless you hardship in. Doesn't matter if you only played on the freshman team or if you played every varsity game or no varsity games. You transfer without a hardship, you can't play varsity for a year. There is no locking in. |
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yarddog
48 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2012 : 03:20:54
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| To answer the original post, "What’s going on with the HS teams?" The better HS teams are weight training with their teammates before or after school about 3 times a week. The other 2 days are spent long tossing and doing 2 on 1's with the coaches in the cage or bullpens. It is a 9 month commitment that promotes team chemistry and improves their strength and skill sets immensely. It is hard work and is not for everyone. The rewards are huge if the team buys in to the program. Some HS teams play a fall schedule that is used for instructional purposes and to evaluate their talent for the upcoming season. I'm not sure if the Southern Prospect leagues commit that much time into player development, but that’s fine. Any baseball played by teens whether it is HS, alternative, or Rec is fine as long as they keep playing and enjoy the game. |
Edited by - yarddog on 10/04/2012 07:30:14 |
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rippit
667 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2012 : 07:00:24
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| Okay how about this scenario: student transfers to school outside his regular cluster. Was in his regular middle school as 8th grader then different school as 9th grader. Varsity eligible or not? |
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in_the_know
985 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2012 : 08:02:26
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quote:
Originally posted by rippit
Okay how about this scenario: student transfers to school outside his regular cluster. Was in his regular middle school as 8th grader then different school as 9th grader. Varsity eligible or not?
First off, middle school is irrelevant, so discount that for purposes of this discussion. You establish your school beginning with 9th grade.
It sounds like you're suggesting a "permissive transfer" in which your son enrolls in a school outside of the high school that you're home address districts you to attend (outside your service area). This is called a permissive transfer. (read section 1.6 of the linked info). If you attend a school outside your service area without one of the "exceptions" in the rules, you fall under the "migrant student" status in which you can compete at sub varsity level for one year, but are NOT eligible for Varsity level play for one year. Ditto if you transfer back to your service area school.
If you're planning on attending a school outside of your service area and plan on playing sports, you better understand the eligibility requirements. Hardships allow you to skirt the year sit out rule, but I don't believe not liking the high school coach qualifies as a hardship.
Finally, as you're reading the requirements, note that the online posting does not do any indentation, but when you look at the stipulations, you need to follow the number/lettering format to determine the actual rule. For example, 1.62.g.1.a is a stipulation. In only point that out so you don't misinterpret a rule by not reading it in its entirety.
http://www.ghsa.net/student-and-eligibility-information |
Edited by - in_the_know on 10/04/2012 08:25:14 |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2012 : 09:29:04
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quote:
Originally posted by rippit
Okay how about this scenario: student transfers to school outside his regular cluster. Was in his regular middle school as 8th grader then different school as 9th grader. Varsity eligible or not?
Looking through the rules that in the know posted, it looks like if you go from 8th grade to a school outside of the boundries of that school (not your districted school), you are considered a "migrant" student. You are not eligible for varsity play for one year - unless you meet hardship or "bonafide move" requirements. If, later you wanted to move back to your districted school, you would also have to sit out a year of varsity - unless you met the above conditions.
Last year we had a player who went to an out of district school starting his 9th grade year. I believe he was eligible for varsity because it was a new school and he signed up for it by the deadline. However, when he came back to his districted school, he had to sit out of varsity for a year. Parents thought he would be able to play since he was moving back to his districted school, but he couldn't.
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BuzzDad
5 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2012 : 09:51:06
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| Too bad about the angst of some of these HS baseball situations. We have been blessed with a great HS program that has brought a lot of joy to our family and our boys. They have played on some summer teams that have won "national championships" but those memories are nothing compared to the fun they have had on their HS teams, playing with their friends, going to the playoffs, doing road trips, ....... |
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baseball1
56 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2012 : 10:30:12
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YES that is for "The Better HS Teams" and it WILL pay off . The lazy or indifferent ' coaches ' will quickly find many reasons why ' its not for us ' blah blah . You know what the old saying is about what talks and what walks ?? ... great example here .
Thanks for bringing this out .
[quote]Originally posted by yarddog
To answer the original post, "What’s going on with the HS teams?" The better HS teams are weight training with their teammates before or after school about 3 times a week. The other 2 days are spent long tossing and doing 2 on 1's with the coaches in the cage or bullpens. It is a 9 month commitment that promotes team chemistry and improves their strength and skill sets immensely. It is hard work and is not for everyone. The rewards are huge if the team buys in to the program. Some HS teams play a fall schedule that is used for instructional purposes and to evaluate their talent for the upcoming season. |
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jongamefan
218 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2012 : 11:55:41
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YARD : going even further with developing a fall program to develop your spring team :
Most our schools in Gwinnett have fall baseball teams and they play other school teams and sometimes an Atlanta wide tournament of traveling teams
Its wide known the success of the Gwinnett high school baseball teams and no coincidence that fall programs are part of it . They wouldnt think of not having a fall program |
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in_the_know
985 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2012 : 13:49:00
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quote:
Originally posted by jongamefan
YARD : going even further with developing a fall program to develop your spring team :
Most our schools in Gwinnett have fall baseball teams and they play other school teams and sometimes an Atlanta wide tournament of traveling teams
Its wide known the success of the Gwinnett high school baseball teams and no coincidence that fall programs are part of it . They wouldnt think of not having a fall program
Jong,
Don't get completely wrapped up in the success of Gwinnett schools being a fall program. There's been a lot of previous talk on this forum about enrollment size and Gwinnett is a significant percent higher than it's neighboring counties regarding the size they build their schools to accommodate enrollment. That plays no small part in having overall better talent on their sports teams.
Granted, this means that many players who would otherwise make their varsity teams in neighboring counties may get overlooked and these alternate leagues may prove to be a great landing spot for them.
While some of the fall leagues are good, many players are participating in football or not participating in the fall leagues. Over the years, most of the fall games I've watched have been the equal to sub par rec level talent. If you're telling me that the starting varsity players from Gwinnett's high schools are all playing fall ball, I'll be surprised as I've seen some of the Gwinnett fall teams over the past few years and they sure don't perform at the same level as their spring teams.
Remember, fall teams are a HUGE fundraising opportunity for high schools. High School coaches are not allowed to coach the teams per GHSA rules, so you find a lot of teams coached by dad's or former players. Not a lot of significant development takes place in fall high school programs. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2012 : 15:49:23
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I don't know all the kids on that list, but I know one of them. He was told to not even try out for his HS team by the coach. He's a decent pitcher, but underperformed, in my opinion. I'm very happy he is playing beyond HS, but he is one who could not make his HS team.
No one EVER said you HAVE to play HS ball to play at the next level. I think what most are saying is that it is a ton of fun playing with the friends you grew up with and go to HS with. My son's HS team was far from a juggernaught. Kids did not think real highly of the coach - he was new and a 1st time head coach. But my son would not even have considered not playing for his HS. Grew up wanting to do it. Loved playing with his friends and competing against kids from other HS's that he played with in travel ball. There is a sense of pride and ownership that comes with playing for your HS that you just cannot get playing anywhere else.
I personally think it is a mistake to give up on playing for your school in favor of playing for one of these alternative leagues (unless it is the only option). I don't care what these guys say, very little college scouting goes on in the spring during the HS season. College coaches are too busy coaching their own teams to go out and watch and scout. I saw FAR more pro scouts at HS games this past spring than college coaches. |
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LLH
98 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2012 : 16:45:26
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| Anyone know the cost of these alternative teams? Are there families making a change to save money? |
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rippit
667 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2012 : 20:17:46
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quote:
Originally posted by LLH
Anyone know the cost of these alternative teams? Are there families making a change to save money?
You won't save money. Get out your checkbook. |
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Dr. Old School
314 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2012 : 21:24:55
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Gasbag,
The kids I was referring to would have much rather played JV ball and gotten game time in, than to spend time sitting on the bench. It's was not ego on anyone's part.
I will agree, though, that things were different when we grew up and I think it had as much to do with the leagues we played in had three age groups in it (minor league was 7-9 yr olds, little league was 10-12, Babe Ruth was 13-15, and American Legion was 16-18.
I think travel baseball having only one age group per team has caused players to miss that understanding of progression (you don't play a lot the first season, you play the secondary roles the second season, then you play the primary role the third season. Then you move up and start overa gain.) |
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AllStar
762 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2012 : 07:34:56
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quote:
Originally posted by bballman
No one EVER said you HAVE to play HS ball to play at the next level. I think what most are saying is that it is a ton of fun playing with the friends you grew up with and go to HS with. My son's HS team was far from a juggernaught. Kids did not think real highly of the coach - he was new and a 1st time head coach. But my son would not even have considered not playing for his HS. Grew up wanting to do it. Loved playing with his friends and competing against kids from other HS's that he played with in travel ball. There is a sense of pride and ownership that comes with playing for your HS that you just cannot get playing anywhere else.
Couldn't have said it better myself. My son's HS Senior class will probably have 4 kids sign and 4 more try to walk on. They have high expectations for the upcoming season, but like Bballman's son's team, they are not a juggernaut. |
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jongamefan
218 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2012 : 09:46:41
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KNOW: respectfully Ican say you are not familiar with the Gwinnett programs I speak of .
There IS development most definitely . These guys are for the most part very good and unlike as referred to earlier they are not teachers maskerading as coaches just to throw their weight around (oft literally  )
Our school there are very few football players as baseballers so no conflict or downgrading of talent
And I disagree too with suggestion that we win out here because the schools are bigger . There are multiple 'large' schools around Atlanta that still fail at baseball and typically other sports too . Cant beat even the smaller schools head to head .
It all comes down to coaches actual desire and ability to build a program not just put on a uni call himself a coach and pick up a paycheck.
We dont do it that way and results back that up
BALLMAN : I will guess that your sons team was not a juggernaut largely because the kids didnt think highly of the coach .
We dont have that here either it is a serious program : we feel fortunate that our son is able to partcipate in it rather than be stuck where everyone knows before the first pitch is thrown what the outcome is going to be week in week out
Respectfully it is hard to imagine how kids can have that ownership and pride that you mentioned when the coach is a joke and wins are tough to get
Do you mind my asking what school it is ,in what county ?
quote:
Originally posted by in_the_know
quote:
Originally posted by jongamefan
YARD : going even further with developing a fall program to develop your spring team :
Most our schools in Gwinnett have fall baseball teams and they play other school teams and sometimes an Atlanta wide tournament of traveling teams
Its wide known the success of the Gwinnett high school baseball teams and no coincidence that fall programs are part of it . They wouldnt think of not having a fall program
Jong,
Don't get completely wrapped up in the success of Gwinnett schools being a fall program. There's been a lot of previous talk on this forum about enrollment size and Gwinnett is a significant percent higher than it's neighboring counties regarding the size they build their schools to accommodate enrollment. That plays no small part in having overall better talent on their sports teams.
Granted, this means that many players who would otherwise make their varsity teams in neighboring counties may get overlooked and these alternate leagues may prove to be a great landing spot for them.
While some of the fall leagues are good, many players are participating in football or not participating in the fall leagues. Over the years, most of the fall games I've watched have been the equal to sub par rec level talent. If you're telling me that the starting varsity players from Gwinnett's high schools are all playing fall ball, I'll be surprised as I've seen some of the Gwinnett fall teams over the past few years and they sure don't perform at the same level as their spring teams.
Remember, fall teams are a HUGE fundraising opportunity for high schools. High School coaches are not allowed to coach the teams per GHSA rules, so you find a lot of teams coached by dad's or former players. Not a lot of significant development takes place in fall high school programs.
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Whats goin on @ the high school teams ?
