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toooldforthis
2 Posts |
 Posted - 08/17/2012 : 23:04:24
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| How about when a team offers your kid a spot, then turns around, after you accept, and says, never mind. I think we can do better. Try explaining that one to your son... |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2012 : 23:34:47
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quote:
Originally posted by toooldforthis
How about when a team offers your kid a spot, then turns around, after you accept, and says, never mind. I think we can do better. Try explaining that one to your son...
You explain to your son that there are jerks in real life and that is something you should never do. Explain to him that when you give your word, you don't go back on it. And because that coach did that, you should not trust him and it's probably a good thing in the long run that he's not playing for him because he's not a man of his word. Turn it into a teaching moment about how you're NOT supposed to act. |
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itsaboutbb
164 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2012 : 16:30:20
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quote:
Originally posted by bballman
quote:
Originally posted by toooldforthis
How about when a team offers your kid a spot, then turns around, after you accept, and says, never mind. I think we can do better. Try explaining that one to your son...
You explain to your son that there are jerks in real life and that is something you should never do. Explain to him that when you give your word, you don't go back on it. And because that coach did that, you should not trust him and it's probably a good thing in the long run that he's not playing for him because he's not a man of his word. Turn it into a teaching moment about how you're NOT supposed to act.
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toooldforthis
2 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2012 : 21:58:34
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| Thanks bballman... Well said... |
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PBK84
204 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2012 : 09:53:01
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Is there ever a reason that you could uncommit to a team? Without being on the "black ball list"
ex.Coach promisedone things and it turned out to be another.. |
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AllStar
762 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2012 : 11:20:13
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quote:
Originally posted by toooldforthis
How about when a team offers your kid a spot, then turns around, after you accept, and says, never mind. I think we can do better. Try explaining that one to your son...
Did the coach literally say, "I think we can do better."?
Run as far away in the other direction. |
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BaseballIsMyLife
6 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2012 : 11:24:47
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| As a parent, so many coaches put the huge pressure sale on the kids. EVERYONE knows that EVERYONE is looking around and the end of the season has now become the start of the next recruiting season even before final games are played. When teams have early tryouts and you are truly interested but other tryouts are not complete you are in a real pickle. So many (so so many) coaches will just say, "if he takes the slot now, great, he is in, but if not, it is open" without giving the boy a real chance to have time to evaluate his options. Total BS. It is the coaches who are not being honest and who are pressuring kids so doggone early to make a decision. |
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in_the_know
985 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2012 : 12:22:03
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quote:
Originally posted by BaseballIsMyLife
As a parent, so many coaches put the huge pressure sale on the kids. EVERYONE knows that EVERYONE is looking around and the end of the season has now become the start of the next recruiting season even before final games are played. When teams have early tryouts and you are truly interested but other tryouts are not complete you are in a real pickle. So many (so so many) coaches will just say, "if he takes the slot now, great, he is in, but if not, it is open" without giving the boy a real chance to have time to evaluate his options. Total BS. It is the coaches who are not being honest and who are pressuring kids so doggone early to make a decision.
Why is that BS?
Look at it from the coach/team's perspective.
I have a roster to fill. I want to put together a team with the best athletes I can assemble by position so that I can field a competitive and similarly talented team (meaning the talent spread from the best to the weakest player across my team isn't too significant).
Part of the appeal of my team is that I can share who's committed so that families can determine if they want to join the team. Questions such as depth by position (if my kid's a catcher and I have 4 solid catchers already, he may not be interested, etc.). Overall talent, etc.
My goal is to assemble this and have commitments. These commitments aren't to only me as a coach, but to all the other families and players.
If I make an offer, I'm not inclined to want to wait a week for an answer. If the player isn't willing to accept the offer and commit, I'm going to move on to my next best option. If I wait a week or so for candidate 1, and candidate 1 eventually declines, I may have very well lost candidates 2, 3 & 4 to other teams while I waited around.
I don't believe for a moment that seeking a quick commitment is BS for these reasons. If my team is the 2nd option to a particular player and he wants to wait and see if he gets an offer from his number 1 option, then that family needs to choose whether to roll the dice or not that he won't miss out if option 1 falls through. If there's an offer on the table, I don't see any reason at all why there can't be an expiration of that offer.
The onus is on the family to evaluate their options up front and be prepared for the possibilities. You know which teams you're interested in. You know when the tryouts are. You should be prepared with what you'll do if the order doesn't align perfectly to fit your needs. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2012 : 13:28:06
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quote:
Originally posted by PBK84
Is there ever a reason that you could uncommit to a team? Without being on the "black ball list"
ex.Coach promisedone things and it turned out to be another..
Personally, I say you ride out the season and find a new team for the next season.
I'm not sure the promise you are talking about, but if you find a coach that promises a starting position or a certain amount of play time, I would not go there. Things change over the course of a season. There are two things a coach must juggle throughout the couse of a season (among others). One is player development and the other is keeping his team as competitive as possible. To be fair to all kids, evaluations should be going on all year. If one kid is playing SS and his play is affecting the team in a negative way and there is another kid who has earned the opportunity to play in that spot, the coach has the responsibility to make that change. That's not to say that the original starter sits the bench for the rest of the season, but if another kid outplays and earns that spot, the coach has a responsibility to the rest of the team to make that move. No one wants to be on a team where all the kids know there is a better player not playing and possibly causing the team some losses, just because the coach promised him that spot.
Like I said, if a coach is making promises about a starting role and the position being "your's", I would stay away. The most a coach should promise a kid and family is that anyone will be given the opportunity to earn a starting spot. |
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PBK84
204 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2012 : 17:26:23
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quote:
Originally posted by PBK84
Is there ever a reason that you could uncommit to a team? Without being on the "black ball list"
ex.Coach promised one things and it turned out to be another..
Misrepresent instead of promise is a better word.Thinking your getting a AAA team and it turns out to be a AA. |
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pride coach
21 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2012 : 19:44:01
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Guys, maybe this is a bit old fashioned, but....from a coaches point of view.
Why not only try out for teams you want to make. meaning...
If I go to try out for a team, then I am going because I want to play for this team, AND I am hoping for an offer from this coach. If I (my son) does well and the coach makes me an offer, I should not only want to accept, I should be PREPARED to accept his offer at that time... then my yes is yes and then I am done with my tryouts and I know what team that I am on.
If I dont get an offer, then we take a second look to see what the next team that we would like to play for is...and we repeat the process. You might not get an offer from your first choice team, but you might be just the piece that the second team is looking for.
I understand the concept of wanting to keep your options open, or wanting to see who is interested in you as a player, but the whole process is starting to become like the kids on the cereal aisle at the store that cant make up their mind.
The parents that shuffle their sons from tryout to tryout, hitting every one of them might be looking for an ego stroke instead of the right team. If we all stop wondering if the grass is greener, and just plan for and work towards the team that is the best fit for our son this might be a smoother process each new season.
but like I said...maybe just old-fashioned. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2012 : 20:54:54
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quote:
Originally posted by PBK84
Misrepresent instead of promise is a better word.Thinking your getting a AAA team and it turns out to be a AA.
Well, in my mind, that's a matter of opinion, not fact. You're gonna have to stick this one out.
Almost any team can be seen as a higher or lower classification by different people at different times. One of the pieces of advice often given by people here is to go to a practice or a game of the team you are looking at before you decide. Maybe this is a lesson to be learned. |
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Phattso
143 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2012 : 22:49:25
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quote:
Originally posted by in_the_know
quote:
Originally posted by BaseballIsMyLife
As a parent, so many coaches put the huge pressure sale on the kids. EVERYONE knows that EVERYONE is looking around and the end of the season has now become the start of the next recruiting season even before final games are played. When teams have early tryouts and you are truly interested but other tryouts are not complete you are in a real pickle. So many (so so many) coaches will just say, "if he takes the slot now, great, he is in, but if not, it is open" without giving the boy a real chance to have time to evaluate his options. Total BS. It is the coaches who are not being honest and who are pressuring kids so doggone early to make a decision.
Why is that BS?
Look at it from the coach/team's perspective.
I have a roster to fill. I want to put together a team with the best athletes I can assemble by position so that I can field a competitive and similarly talented team (meaning the talent spread from the best to the weakest player across my team isn't too significant).
Part of the appeal of my team is that I can share who's committed so that families can determine if they want to join the team. Questions such as depth by position (if my kid's a catcher and I have 4 solid catchers already, he may not be interested, etc.). Overall talent, etc.
My goal is to assemble this and have commitments. These commitments aren't to only me as a coach, but to all the other families and players.
If I make an offer, I'm not inclined to want to wait a week for an answer. If the player isn't willing to accept the offer and commit, I'm going to move on to my next best option. If I wait a week or so for candidate 1, and candidate 1 eventually declines, I may have very well lost candidates 2, 3 & 4 to other teams while I waited around.
I don't believe for a moment that seeking a quick commitment is BS for these reasons. If my team is the 2nd option to a particular player and he wants to wait and see if he gets an offer from his number 1 option, then that family needs to choose whether to roll the dice or not that he won't miss out if option 1 falls through. If there's an offer on the table, I don't see any reason at all why there can't be an expiration of that offer.
The onus is on the family to evaluate their options up front and be prepared for the possibilities. You know which teams you're interested in. You know when the tryouts are. You should be prepared with what you'll do if the order doesn't align perfectly to fit your needs.
VERY well said... Hopefully some parents will read this.
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Big Dawg
22 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2012 : 02:12:53
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I get what your saying and agree if it was that simple but here is why what your saying doesn't work. (these are just examples please don't take dates literal)
try out 1, first choice
1.RBI Aug 5
2.Alpharetta Warriors July 14
3.Middle Ga Moccs July 28
You see the issue is your really wanted to play for a certain team at RBI which is the first choice but your second tryout came first and now said coach is applying pressure (rightfully so) and you dont get to wait to see if you make RBI now so its a tough decision and not as easy as you make it sound here.choices of tryouts don't always come in order. Just sayin.....
quote:
Originally posted by pride coach
Guys, maybe this is a bit old fashioned, but....from a coaches point of view.
Why not only try out for teams you want to make. meaning...
If I go to try out for a team, then I am going because I want to play for this team, AND I am hoping for an offer from this coach. If I (my son) does well and the coach makes me an offer, I should not only want to accept, I should be PREPARED to accept his offer at that time... then my yes is yes and then I am done with my tryouts and I know what team that I am on.
If I dont get an offer, then we take a second look to see what the next team that we would like to play for is...and we repeat the process. You might not get an offer from your first choice team, but you might be just the piece that the second team is looking for.
I understand the concept of wanting to keep your options open, or wanting to see who is interested in you as a player, but the whole process is starting to become like the kids on the cereal aisle at the store that cant make up their mind.
The parents that shuffle their sons from tryout to tryout, hitting every one of them might be looking for an ego stroke instead of the right team. If we all stop wondering if the grass is greener, and just plan for and work towards the team that is the best fit for our son this might be a smoother process each new season.
but like I said...maybe just old-fashioned.
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DecaturDad
619 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2012 : 08:45:28
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quote:
Originally posted by in_the_know
Why is that BS?
Look at it from the coach/team's perspective.
I have a roster to fill. I want to put together a team with the best athletes I can assemble by position so that I can field a competitive and similarly talented team (meaning the talent spread from the best to the weakest player across my team isn't too significant).
Part of the appeal of my team is that I can share who's committed so that families can determine if they want to join the team. Questions such as depth by position (if my kid's a catcher and I have 4 solid catchers already, he may not be interested, etc.). Overall talent, etc.
My goal is to assemble this and have commitments. These commitments aren't to only me as a coach, but to all the other families and players.
If I make an offer, I'm not inclined to want to wait a week for an answer. If the player isn't willing to accept the offer and commit, I'm going to move on to my next best option. If I wait a week or so for candidate 1, and candidate 1 eventually declines, I may have very well lost candidates 2, 3 & 4 to other teams while I waited around.
I don't believe for a moment that seeking a quick commitment is BS for these reasons. If my team is the 2nd option to a particular player and he wants to wait and see if he gets an offer from his number 1 option, then that family needs to choose whether to roll the dice or not that he won't miss out if option 1 falls through. If there's an offer on the table, I don't see any reason at all why there can't be an expiration of that offer.
The onus is on the family to evaluate their options up front and be prepared for the possibilities. You know which teams you're interested in. You know when the tryouts are. You should be prepared with what you'll do if the order doesn't align perfectly to fit your needs.
In the Know,
I completely agree with your post. My son and I just went through the try out routine. There were a few teams that we looked into both via open try outs and conversations with the coachs. Until you actually go to a tryout, meet the coach, see some of the potential players, you don't really know who your first choice might be. We had a few coaches call and invite my son to join the team. At that time, I asked for and recieved some more information.
I told the coach, I had to talk it over with my son, and would get back to him in 24 hours. (All of the calls wer during the day while I was at work.)
I would then get back to the coach and let him know that we were not interested or that we were not ready to commit. (There were some teams, that we were still considering,but could not say yes until we had more time to consider our options.) I was always polite and up front. I made it clear that I was not expecting any of them to hold a spot for us.
Once we had committed, I did let them know we had committed to another team and wished them luck. The feild continues to shrink each year so we will all be playing each other at some point.
I think as long as you are honest, and don't expect either a coach or a parent to wait for the other to decide, this can be a win for everyone. |
Edited by - DecaturDad on 08/21/2012 08:59:52 |
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in_the_know
985 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2012 : 08:45:37
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Big Dawg,
You're absolutely right. However, the poster I responded to was basically laying it all on the coaches for "pressuring" someone into making a decision. But the Moc's and Warriors probably don't care to wait around for RBI to select their team and hold out for whatever scraps fall their way. So I don't fault them at all for seeking players who want to be on their team.
So in your case, you do have a tough decision. Narrow your options down to one and hope for the best, or broaden your options and be prepared to make a decision if one of your "lesser" options is offered before your first choice.
My point is that you can't blame the coaches of these other teams for wanting a decision in a timely manner. It isn't a "BS" pressure move as the other poster stated, it is merely a team trying to prepare to meet their goals for the upcoming season. You can't expect them to keep an open seat for you at their table when they have a line at the door of people wanting in.
Likewise, and back to the topic of this thread, once you commit to a team, stick to it. |
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peashooter
297 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2012 : 09:13:44
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Sorry, about to Rant!
BaseballIsMyLife: I have to agree with in-the-know. Stan says I am not allowed to call people out, so I will say Generic Parent A will string along a coach until they get a better offer and not even have the courtesty to let that coach know they have chosen another team. I know I am biased as a coach, but I feel the parents 100% abuse this situation. I can tell you the number of times I have had calls from parents wanting a workout, and then they don't show, don't call back to cancel, etc. That's why I never did solo workouts. You can count on a 50% no show rate among parents. Hey, who cares that the coach is spending his time on a workout, its about me!
The grass isn't always greener on the other side. Parents are being selfish and taking the attitude of ME,ME,ME. If you go to a tryout and get an offer you should be ready to accept it on the spot. Don't go to the tryout if you are not willing to accept a coaches offer. You are milking the system.
Go to the tryouts you want, and if you don't get an offer, then contact other coaches for a private workout. I am sure there will be a team willing to extend their roster if you are good enough. Teams are always looking. |
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SavannahBulldog
50 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2012 : 14:32:06
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| Um, peashooter, I know you are speaking from the Coaches stand point, and I can understand your frustration, but your statement, "if you go to a tryout and get an offer you should be ready to accept it on the spot", is way off the mark. A tryout is an opportunity to see what a coach brings to the table. I want to know how my Son reacts to a coach and players he is unfamiliar with before making a decision. It's not about me, it's about him. I have to consult him before WE make a decision. I want the coach to be open and honest about everything. These kids have worked hard and earned the right to decide what fits them best. I was very impressed with the Coach we worked out with and my Son responded very well to him. We liked everything they had to say, but we can't make "knee jerk" decisions. Done that too many times. Hopefully we will get to see more and then make a sound decision. |
Edited by - SavannahBulldog on 08/21/2012 14:34:03 |
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Big Dawg
22 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2012 : 14:46:08
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| In The Know, that reply was to how "simple" pride coach made it seem. I completly agree and respect what you said. I see it both ways. I'm not having these issues just reading through and diagreed with how easy that poster made it sound. We are on the 643 Cougars, I was just making a point and example for the ones that do struggle with this. |
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2Boys29
2 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2012 : 21:34:36
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Here's my two cents...
I can understand that coaches would like parents to accept/decline an offer quickly. However, parents would like coaches to do the same. If parents pay $30, $50, or even $100 for what some teams call a clinic/tryout then have the courtesy of making a decision just as quickly as you would like one. In our experience there are some coaches who are courteous and provide immediate feedback and say great kid but we do not have a spot for him. While this may disappoint my son, at least they contacted us within 24 hrs and we can move on. The vast majority do absolutely nothing. Then send an email asking for a second or third look. Isn't this the equivalent of what parents do when they're looking for a better offer for their son?? All I'm saying is this entire silly season goes both ways. If you expect a quick response from parents then you better provide one yourself to all the kids that come out. This can easily be done now with email - you don't even have to speak with a parent/player. |
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kidsgame
35 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2012 : 12:57:56
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| I understand that players and coaches may need a little time to make decisions, especially as the kids get older - but I cherish the memory of my son leaping into my arms in joy at age 9 when we received his first official "offer" to play travel ball. As several days had passed since the tryout, we were ready to and did instantly accept that offer. Three years later, we are still grateful and playing for the same coach / team. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2012 : 15:29:20
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Good job kidsgame. I wish more families would pick a team and stick with it. My son played for the same team from 11 to 14, when the team disbanded for HS. He then played 2 years on his next team, until they disbanded because the non-dad coach had a younger son he wanted to coach. He then played his last 2 seasons for the same team. There is something to be said to picking the right team and sticking with them.
I know there are some circumstances beyond your control that it would be best to leave a team. But, if you do your homework and quit thinking that the grass is always greener, it is possible to be a pretty stable player and family. |
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AllStar
762 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2012 : 15:43:26
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quote:
Originally posted by bballman
Good job kidsgame. I wish more families would pick a team and stick with it. My son played for the same team from 11 to 14, when the team disbanded for HS. He then played 2 years on his next team, until they disbanded because the non-dad coach had a younger son he wanted to coach. He then played his last 2 seasons for the same team. There is something to be said to picking the right team and sticking with them.
I know there are some circumstances beyond your control that it would be best to leave a team. But, if you do your homework and quit thinking that the grass is always greener, it is possible to be a pretty stable player and family.
Great post.
So your non-dad coach became a dad coach? Did he get dumber between seasons?  |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2012 : 16:05:18
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Haha Allstar. No, he had been a non-dad coach for MANY, MANY years. Was with ECB when they started and actually coached the 1st Astros teams to their World Championships. Left ECB and had his own team for many more years. Then he had kids and his son got playing baseball. Tried to do both for a year, but between the demands of coaching two teams and pressure from his wife to "spend more time with your own son's team", he decided to give up the older team.
Now he can sit back and enjoy the "my son's not playing because the coach's son is there" drama. Should be fun. :)
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gasbag
281 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2012 : 16:11:56
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Just some random thoughts.....
1 - Why not utilize the fall season to see if you like a team/coach (and vice versa) and want to commit to playing the summer ? Split it up into two separate seasons. Try each other on for size and date before you make that big commitment.
2 - Sounds to me in every case, that we are not allowing our boys to make the decision but parents are making it for them. If this is the case, how much fun is that going to be ?
3 - My experience is that good teams and coaches will continue from year to year. These teams aren't looking to fill an entire roster but maybe just a few positions. They have an idea of what and whom they want and usually hold private workouts vs. these open workouts / fund raisers.
4 - I don't understand these open tryout / fund raisers...didn't we all do that in parks and rec ? Then it was used to spread the talent out and even the leagues up. I never paid a $100 fee at my local park ! Went to try out and entered into a draft based on how the kids were graded out. What's wrong with this picture ? Seems to me high level travel ball has gotten a little greedy and appears to be trending towards moneyball vs baseball.
5 - Look to join a team that you think you can be on for multiple years, and not just a short term, 1 year gig. To do that takes lots of time, a few toe stubs but when you get it right, it's worth it !
6- If your playing travel ball and going to an open tryout and you haven't any idea of which team or have not spoken to any coach es prior to the event, you as a parent have dropped the ball for your "Johnny". It's up to you to do the leg work, coordination, contacts, dialogues etc etc etc prior to any open workout.
OK so there's a few observations and comments based on may years of toe stubbing before finally getting things right ! Hope it helps someone !!! |
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Definition of commiting to a team
