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oldschooldad
203 Posts |
 Posted - 02/20/2012 : 17:59:10
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Now that the season is about to get in full swing, I am been think about the new bat rules. We all know there are many opinions about if the new BFP stamped bats are really any different than previous years, but I DON'T want to continue that discussion here.
I am wondering what is the penalty if a team or player uses a bat that is not stamped? Automatic out? No penalty just stop using it? Does the opposing team need to make the ump aware of questionable bat? Will the bats be checked before each at bat or each game?
Personally would feel that umpires should check before the game and if an incorrect bat is used, the batter should be called out. If team uses a second bat during event, they are disqualified.
Thoughts??
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DecaturDad
619 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2012 : 19:22:34
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Good question. I don't have a good answer. But I wonder how the umpire could be expected to keep track of what bats he has checked and what are "new" bats. I know some kids with two or three bats in their bag. And what if he has a batting cage bat that is not legal, but in his bag? I would think the rule could only be enforced once a player steps in the batter's box.
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Mad1
252 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2012 : 19:51:37
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First offense -Out and confiscation of bat for remainder of event. 2nd Offense- Ejection. -Per Rule Book
Altered bats- Suspension of player and coach per USSSA coaches meeting at beginning of season.
Our team rule is no bats in dugout that do not have USSSA mark. They are left at home or in car. Any found before game are given to parents to take to vehicle. |
Edited by - Mad1 on 02/20/2012 20:15:05 |
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touchemall
145 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2012 : 21:48:45
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| But is it up to the umpire to catch the old bats or is this something the coach from the opposing team has to question? And what if it is after the at bat or is not noticed until the 2nd or 3rd at bat? I feel like we need one more coach or a spotter up in the stands like NASCAR who is an expert in bats. Nobody has time for any of that. |
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Mad1
252 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2012 : 22:21:58
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Touchemall, I dont know the answer to that one. This past w/e, I never saw the umpire look at any of the bats, except once when one of our kids hit one out. The other teams and ours used very recognizable bats to us, to know they were current year model bats. The other teams only had two hits in our games, so none were ever suspect to us, or the umpires I would imagine. But looking at this past w/e, I would think the opposing coach would have to challenge.
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oldschooldad
203 Posts |
Posted - 02/20/2012 : 22:41:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Mad1
First offense -Out and confiscation of bat for remainder of event. 2nd Offense- Ejection. -Per Rule Book
Altered bats- Suspension of player and coach per USSSA coaches meeting at beginning of season.
Our team rule is no bats in dugout that do not have USSSA mark. They are left at home or in car. Any found before game are given to parents to take to vehicle.
But the bat would not be altered just not certified?!
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Card6
152 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2012 : 07:28:39
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B. 2012 and 2013. For 2012 and 2013, only those Small Barrel bats made by approved
USSSA licensed manufacturers that are either (1) Wood or (2) made with the old USSSA
mark or the New USSSA Mark will be allowed in USSSA play. This includes Tee Ball
bats that are longer than 23 inches. 23 inch and shorter Small Barrel Tee Ball bats from
approved USSSA licensed manufacturers will continue to be allowed in 2012 and 2013
without the old or New USSSA Mark.
Read the rule... 2 1/4 bats do not have to have the new stamp for 2012 usssa travel ball. 2011 2 1/4 bats with the old usssa 1.15 stamp are legal. My son uses a 2 1/4 bat not a big barrel. FYI before one makes a fool out of themselves and tries to confiscate a legal bat just because a 11u got a good hit. lol Rules apply when a child steps into the batter box not what is in the dug out. Everybody has practice/old bats. |
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Mad1
252 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2012 : 09:05:52
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| Nobody on here said the 2 1/4 bats had to have the new stamp. Just that all bats had to have USSSA marks. Our kids have batting cage bats too,, we just dont let them in the dugout, so there is no honest mistakes. Kids will grab a bat out of habit and we just dont want to have to look each time they step to plate, so we get rid of them before game time. Honestly, we dont have time to worry about the opponents bats, so we'll leave that up to the umpires, or TD's. |
Edited by - Mad1 on 02/21/2012 12:14:15 |
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neverquit
128 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2012 : 14:13:30
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| Wow...hope your not Mad. I think this is General Discussion where one can talk in General. Any info. that can help inform is good. I think that was what Card did. Most people may not be aware of this rule or that some prefer 2 1/4 bats over big barrels. Good to know Card. |
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oldschooldad
203 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2012 : 17:19:09
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Further research has given me a better understand of the new rules. Stepping into the batters box with a big barrel bat that does not have the BFP stamp can result in an automatic out. Bat is confiscated by the TD for the rest of the event.
still ??s about the 2nd offense rule. 2nd time in game or tournament. 2nd time for same player or same team.
also does the opposing coach or player or fans need to ask the umpire to check for the stamp? |
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in_the_know
985 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2012 : 17:50:43
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I doubt that there will be a consistent application or standard as to how this is carried out. To be frank, there have always been equipment rules in place. You cannot use a softball bat, however, have you ever seen umpires check bats before any contest (outside of high school)? Glove sizes are limited, but have you ever seen this checked? I doubt that you'll see any proactive checking by any TD's or officials. You will likely see a coach ask to have equipment checked if a suspicion is raised to an official or TD.
The only proactive checking of any equipment I've observed in the past 7 years is jewelry and color of sleeves/wristbands by pitchers.
As to violation of rules. Not sure about Triple Crown or anyone else, but USSSA clearly spells theirs out:
7.01.E
The official bat shall be round in cross section, straight in length and measure not more than 36 inches long, including tape or other grip additions to the bat, shall have a knob at the end of its handle, and not more than 2-1/4 inches in diameter for small barrel bats and not more than 2 and ¾ inches for big barrel bats at its largest part. Its
weight shall not exceed 31-ounces, including tape or grip addition to the bat. The bat shall have a grip of tape or some other material to facilitate holding the bat during the batter’s swing. The grip shall be not less than 10 inches long, nor extend to touch the taper or barrel of the bat. All key graphics, including USSSA and BPF markings, must be permanent and cannot be applied as decals or by any other method that would allow the key graphics to be easily removed or added to the bat.
Penalty:
First Offense - If the umpire discovers that the bat does not conform to USSSA Rule 7.01.E until a time during or after which the bat has been used in play, it shall not be grounds for declaring the batter out and/or ejection from the game. If the umpire discovers that a bat has been used to put a ball in play and before the next legal pitch, the defensive team will have the choice of the result of play or the batter being called out and all runners returning to the base occupied before the pitch.
Second Offense – If a team is found in violation of this rule a second time, then the manager will be ejected in addition to the First Offense penalty
quote:
Originally posted by oldschooldad
Further research has given me a better understand of the new rules. Stepping into the batters box with a big barrel bat that does not have the BFP stamp can result in an automatic out. Bat is confiscated by the TD for the rest of the event.
still ??s about the 2nd offense rule. 2nd time in game or tournament. 2nd time for same player or same team.
also does the opposing coach or player or fans need to ask the umpire to check for the stamp?
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Edited by - in_the_know on 02/21/2012 18:04:59 |
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Mad1
252 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2012 : 18:15:29
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| Not Mad at all, just saying nobody differentiated between the two sizes. Either small or large they still have to have marking for usssa , either old or new if big barrel. |
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Goin Deep
140 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2012 : 20:36:33
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If you play 14u and up just use BBCOR and all bases are covered. No stamp needed, etc. |
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in_the_know
985 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2012 : 20:50:56
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Actually, you have the same problem. Lots of the BESR -3 bats out there. Unless someone checks for the BBCOR stamp . . .
quote:
Originally posted by Goin Deep
If you play 14u and up just use BBCOR and all bases are covered. No stamp needed, etc.
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22202
263 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2012 : 21:42:49
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| I don't know if this has been asked or not BUT to ask an ump or td for an equipment check is that considered a "protest" which would require a protest fee? |
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in_the_know
985 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2012 : 23:52:41
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I wouldn't think so, really no different than asking for an appeal on a call. If you don't accept the official's ruling and choose to protest the ruling, then the fee would apply.
quote:
Originally posted by 22202
I don't know if this has been asked or not BUT to ask an ump or td for an equipment check is that considered a "protest" which would require a protest fee?
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EastsideBB
44 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2012 : 16:20:44
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| I think there are going to be some growing pains on the new bat requirements. Keep us posted on your actual experiences during the season. |
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itsaboutbb
164 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2012 : 14:23:11
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| Wouldn't it be real easy if every kid that comes to home plate show the ump the bat? |
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ChinMusic
126 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2012 : 15:17:09
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quote:
Originally posted by itsaboutbb
Wouldn't it be real easy if every kid that comes to home plate show the ump the bat?
I believe that responsibility is on the coaches, not the umpire
2012 NFHS rule change:
In addition, umpires no longer will be required to perform pregame equipment checks, as that responsibility will fall to coaches beginning next year (2012).
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in_the_know
985 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2012 : 17:46:43
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NFHS is high school and won't affect USSSA or any travel organizations. In high school, before every game, all players would lay their bats and helmets outside their respective dugouts and the umpires would inspect all equipment. Sounds like this is no longer required for the umpires to do in NFHS games.
quote:
Originally posted by ChinMusic
quote:
Originally posted by itsaboutbb
Wouldn't it be real easy if every kid that comes to home plate show the ump the bat?
I believe that responsibility is on the coaches, not the umpire
2012 NFHS rule change:
In addition, umpires no longer will be required to perform pregame equipment checks, as that responsibility will fall to coaches beginning next year (2012).
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ChinMusic
126 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2012 : 07:29:36
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quote:
Originally posted by in_the_know
NFHS is high school and won't affect USSSA or any travel organizations. In high school, before every game, all players would lay their bats and helmets outside their respective dugouts and the umpires would inspect all equipment. Sounds like this is no longer required for the umpires to do in NFHS games.
quote:
Originally posted by ChinMusic
quote:
Originally posted by itsaboutbb
Wouldn't it be real easy if every kid that comes to home plate show the ump the bat?
I believe that responsibility is on the coaches, not the umpire
2012 NFHS rule change:
In addition, umpires no longer will be required to perform pregame equipment checks, as that responsibility will fall to coaches beginning next year (2012).
Whether it's USSSA, Triple Crown, etc., umpires will not be checking bats before or during the game unless requested by a coach for a specific AB.
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penalty for not certified bat?
