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touchemall
145 Posts |
 Posted - 02/07/2012 : 12:33:16
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| As try-outs wrap up at the local high schools and the lists of who made the teams and who did not get posted - I wonder about the number of players who played travel ball. How many years of travel ball and at what level? Living in the hot bed of Atlanta where programs such as Home Plate, 643, ECB, etc. exist - does playing for these teams, and the coaches being aware of it, help your chances of making a HS squad? Do coaches even look at rec ball players any longer or is travel ball now a pre-requisit? I am curious to hear from those who either just made their 9th grade HS squad or did not on what it takes to make a team now. No, my kid is not even near HS age so this is not a parent with an ax to grind. I am just curious if making a HS baseball team is the same as when we played before all these clubs existed. Sorry if this topic has been discussed in the past. |
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billbclk
164 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2012 : 13:19:44
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Touch,
My son is a Jr. and plays HS ball. He started baseball in T-ball and travel at 11U and still plays travel in the summer/fall.
My opinion is that is depends on the HS coach as to whether it matters that players have travel experience or not. What I believe is that the learning
curve "probably" is lower for the travel player versus a Rec player. Please note I said probably. Although talent is talent, in some cases HS
coaches are not just coaching players on baseball fundamentals but also how "they" do things at that particular school. Those players that "get it" will
survive. The talented players that don't "get it" will play Sumer/Fall travel and still make it to the next level anyway. I don't know the number of players
beyond HS that did not play Summer/Fall travel (I like to call it Varsity Travel Ball) but I imagine that number would be low.
9th grade HS ball is about numbers as well as talent. Just like each new year in Rec and Travel is a weeding out process, so is 9th Grade and to a certain
extent JV baseball. Even if you have a team loaded with talent there are only so many spots on the varsity roster. The 9th Grade and JV rosters can hold as
many as the coach is willing to keep to maintain a certain level of funding for the program. |
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ChinMusic
126 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2012 : 13:35:51
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I'd expect a very large percentage of those making HS teams have played travel ball for several years at least. I'm not sure if the coaches are aware of that specific experience per athlete, but they can see that in the way the athletes perform at practice and scrimmages. I'm also in the East Cobb area, and with the level of competition, there are always good players that still can't break through. It might not be as tough in other areas, but there's a LOT of great players around here.
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rippit
667 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2012 : 15:30:29
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quote:
Originally posted by ChinMusic
I'd expect a very large percentage of those making HS teams have played travel ball for several years at least. I'm not sure if the coaches are aware of that specific experience per athlete, but they can see that in the way the athletes perform at practice and scrimmages. I'm also in the East Cobb area, and with the level of competition, there are always good players that still can't break through. It might not be as tough in other areas, but there's a LOT of great players around here.
I agree. We've all seen the kid at a travel tryout who has nothing but rec ball experience. You can tell by the way he throws, dresses, wears is hat/doesn't wear a hat, runs, etc. The same holds true for high school tryouts. It's easy to spot the ones with less experience and the experience is gained from playing travel ball.
Grades do factor in.
Reputation preceeds you.
In our area, the high school coaches hold camps/clinics at a couple of the baseball places and/or their own field and recognize talent when they see it. They learn last names and numbers from jerseys. They know well in advance who they will be seeing this time of year every year.
They take whatever number allows them to hit their $$$ numbers. In a really big high school the competition is tough.
I also think there is a disconnect on these boards between MAKING the team and PLAYING for the team. If my son sits the bench for 8-9 weeks in March and April at his high school as a freshman (starting next year), I'm fairly sure that he will switch to travel only just to play ball.
I probably know about 40 9th graders who just tried out at our local high school. I know them from rec as well as travel ball. I know who is going to play, whose daddy got him on the team, and who is being used because they could afford to write the check. Some will continue to develop and eventually make JV and even Varsity. If somebody's MOM knows all this, you can bet the high school coaches do.
Last thing: travel isn't rec ball but some parents never got that through their head. They want fairness. They want to be able to coach their kid from behind the fence.
Well guess what? Reports are that the ones with THOSE reputations are still running their mouths from outside the fence DURING tryouts just last week!! Do your son a favor and DON'T go to tryouts. Hush up and let your 14/15 year old just play ball! |
Edited by - rippit on 02/07/2012 15:33:59 |
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PeachFuzz
76 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2012 : 15:34:38
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| It's particularly tough in bigger HS's that don't have a frosh team (most HS's in the area do not). Our tryouts were attended by approx 70+ participants. There were a couple that you knew during warm-ups/long toss, were not at the level to make it. Those 2-3 players aside, there was a ton of talent that showed up. Needless to say, there are alot of disappointed players/parents this week....I did not envy the coaches job at all during tryout week...they had alot of very tough decisions to make. I take my hat off to the staff...they made the tough calls...they took some new kids, and let some returners go.....fortunately, my player was kept, but the cuts served as a real wake-up call for the ones who made it (both newbies/returners & parents). |
Edited by - PeachFuzz on 02/07/2012 16:23:11 |
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RACGOFAR
208 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2012 : 15:37:52
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My son is a Senior and did not start travel until he was 13. He has been in the HS program all 4 yrs. My observation is that our HS coach may have some limited knowledge of the rising 9th grader's playing history, but for the most part he is evaluating what he sees on the field, off the field, in practice, and outside of practice.
Everybody thinks they know who the studs are going got be on the 9th grade team, based on which travel team they played on. But somebody forgot to tell the coach, b/c his lineup was way different than the consensus picks, which, looking back 4 years later, The coach's picks were pretty spot on.
The 9th grade team four years ago was about 2/3 travel, 1/3 rec/allstar kids. Does travel ball help you make the HS team? Maybe, maybe not.
Does playing against better competition as you grow and develop make you a better ballplayer?
Does throwing 100+ pitches every weekend since you were 9 yrs old make you injury prone in HS?
Does playing 70-100 games a year for 5 yrs before HS burn players out on the game?
Does playing travel ball with coaches who don't know how to instruct or provide proper instruction help a player get ready for HS?
These are all rhetorical questions of course. From my perspective, my son's late entry into travel ball has helped him in HS because he has a fresh arm on a staff that seems prone to having sore ones during the season. |
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Dr. Old School
314 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2012 : 15:37:56
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I see a couple things that I think are interesting:
1) There are many players that come into tryouts without knowing where their skill set lines up with the other talent out there. For many it is because they have been playing rec ball and being one of the better players. For others it is because they have played a lower level of travel ball and fell into the trap of "If you play travel ball, you will get the experience you need to make the HS team.".
2) There are many players that have quitely gone about playing at higher levels of travel ball (and gotten overshadowed by the higher visible players) break out and play a much more visible role in HS. This could be because their stature or personality does not automatically bring them into the limelight. It also may be that they developed later than other kids and are still thought to be "behind" because that is where they were 2 or 3 years ago.
The key point to players trying out is:
* Just because you have been the sought after player in travel ball, if you can't show to the HS coach you can help him win, you won't make it on reputation.
* Just because you have not been one of the most sought after players in travel ball does not naturally put you at a disadvantage.
Go out and show you can play. |
Edited by - Dr. Old School on 02/07/2012 16:23:11 |
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beanball
222 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2012 : 21:02:18
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I think the experience will depend on the tallent level at your school. My 9th grader made the freshman team by the skin of his teeth IMO. He has played travel ball since 9U at Major or AAA level every year.
They had over 40 Freshman come out and the coach kept about 17-18. A lot of good players were cut. A lot of Soph players were cut.
Many of the decisions I think were made based on what positions need to be filled because the talent was that good, there were options at every position. Pitchers are always a premimum and if you can pitch a coach is likely to keep you because you can never have enough. If you're a lefty pitcher, even better.
I know of other schools in our county that did not even have 40 kids come to try-outs. Many of the players cut in our school would have easily made other teams in the county.
HS baseball is a funny thing and there does not seem to be rhyme or reason to any of it. I now have two in the program a Jr and Frosh. Both traveled a differrent paths. Jr. has been on Varsity since 9th grade but has seen little playing time. This will be his year to shine. |
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AllStar
762 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2012 : 23:35:10
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Everybody on my son's HS team plays travel. Everybody on his 13, 15 and Fall 16 YO teams plays for their High Schools. I think just the amount of practice and games helped him to really develop his baseball IQ as well as his mechanics.
Plus, until this off season he and I always hit the field at least a couple of times a week. This year he shut his arm down and just focused on strength and conditioning. Didn't pick up a baseball from 10/31 to the second week of January. Should have done that every year.
I'm pretty sure his coaches have no idea what teams the kids play for during the summer. And don't care. |
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Critical Mass
277 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2012 : 06:49:17
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| I have a freshman who will start JV and will dress all varsity games. He has played travel since 8U and will compete with a jr and sr for the varsity spot throughout the year. As Bean mentioned, returning talent and incoming talent dictate the level of competitiveness and factor into the travel or rec kids making the team. I heard news about a kid....who's been a beast on the Major level for years since 10U..NOT making JV and making the fresh team in a local county. That one was a head scratcher...but it has to mean that team and it's jv are LOADED. Good for them. I think travel matters if your kid isnt a beast or super-fast or a left handed pitcher. To have played travel ball at a solid level and been put in situations, to NOT have to be taught basic cut drills and situational plays is important to your kid's ability to particiapte AND contribute on the field. On a side note...it is cool to see all the kids we've played with and competed against land on their respective hs teams in some capacity. Way to go guys. C'mon baseball season!!! |
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Season
36 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2012 : 10:41:47
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| Preparing for the future it doesn’t matter if you played AA AAA or major travel. A majority of travel ball players in "major classifications" 9U-13U are the bigger / stronger kids in their respective age group, not necessarily the better more talented player. It's easier to stand out or dominate on "small fields" when you are an above avg size player.The equalizer occurs during HS tryouts larger fields and kids more equal in size and strength. Talent, skills, training, and fundamentals will be primary drivers in standing out or making the team vs (Ex.)the 12 year old kid 6'-2" throwing heat and going yard on a major team against the perceived best competition. |
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agent21
97 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2012 : 11:01:40
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| Rippit, I can certainly see a coach taking more players than needed just for the $$$ but think that would catch up with him in a year or two. IMO parents will not be happy paying the big bucks if their son does not get commensurate playing time. How much is wearing a uniform just to say you are on the baseball team worth? |
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rippit
667 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2012 : 13:10:37
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quote:
Originally posted by agent21
Rippit, I can certainly see a coach taking more players than needed just for the $$$ but think that would catch up with him in a year or two. IMO parents will not be happy paying the big bucks if their son does not get commensurate playing time. How much is wearing a uniform just to say you are on the baseball team worth?
You'd think so wouldn't you? Yet they have a new crop of parents every year who think it doesn't apply to their kid.
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beanball
222 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2012 : 16:02:40
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quote:
Originally posted by rippit
quote:
Originally posted by agent21
Rippit, I can certainly see a coach taking more players than needed just for the $$$ but think that would catch up with him in a year or two. IMO parents will not be happy paying the big bucks if their son does not get commensurate playing time. How much is wearing a uniform just to say you are on the baseball team worth?
quote:
You'd think so wouldn't you? Yet they have a new crop of parents every year who think it doesn't apply to their kid.
Truth be told, last year our program had 50+ for three teams. This year less than 45 for three teams.
I didn't know it but last year parents were complaining about play time. This year the cut families are complaining that their player was cut.
Go figure.
[/quote] |
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Critical Mass
277 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2012 : 20:30:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Season
Preparing for the future it doesn’t matter if you played AA AAA or major travel. A majority of travel ball players in "major classifications" 9U-13U are the bigger / stronger kids in their respective age group, not necessarily the better more talented player.
On some teams yes...on "most", not. They are just better baesball players 1 thru 9 at a minimum and have better pitching and athletes. Otherwise A teams would be competing with Majors, regardless of the fence distance, which i assume is your argument for the references of the sizes of the kids and field dimensions. There are cases where lower classification level kids blossom @ 60/90 and the past 10U -11U "Major" studs regress....good for them. At that point it comes down the each kid's determination to win every at bat/pitch/inning and outwork the competition to be thebest they can be. Some of those are sheltered kids of Coaching Dad's who have to figure it all out when he isn't in contol anymore.
If there were no more reasons for Major ball...then there wouldnt be Major ball...we'd all be playing A level ball, Major is where you play the best of the best, and it's just a different environment alltogether. |
Edited by - Critical Mass on 02/08/2012 22:22:23 |
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rippit
667 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2012 : 21:20:35
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| Beanball- lol. I think I've had to deal with those parents!!! Danged of you do. Danged if you don't. |
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NF1974
62 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2012 : 11:15:18
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here is my 2 cents worth on this topic. My son is a soph at a cobb county school and just made the JV team for the second year in a row. The highschool coach does not care about my sons travel ball background( travel since 11u) but is primarily concerned with building his program and winning games. he cut 18 boys(JV side) to get us down to 22( with about 5 as PO's). His cuts included a lot of travel ball players. He is also carryin a few boys, who I would say are on the team because of ; past loyalty to the program,parent involvement-read booster club and/or fundraiser queen/concession manager etc.. I have no problem with his decision to carry these boys,as he is doing what he thinks is best for the overall program. If my son was one of the bubble kids that got cut then I would be mad but such is life.
Secondly, my son has primarily gotten better because of travel ball and lessons-not his highschool. For example: last year our JV squad had a 18 game schedule of which we played probably 15 games(weather). If you figure there were 4AB's available per game for my sons position = 60 AB's. We, in fact, were not very good so it was more like 50 AB's. because he was a freshmen and do to his talent level, he wound up splitting time and probably got 25 AB's in games. i am not including practices.
The first weekend we were through with JV ball, he played in a tournament in which we were able to reach the championship game. We played 6 games and he got 20 AB's. The competition was as good if not better.
My point is that to get better you have to play. Baseball, like a lot of sports, is a game of repitition.
My kid loves playing for his school but he knows he is getting better because of his travel and other work. |
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Catch3dad
90 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2012 : 11:46:56
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quote:
Originally posted by RACGOFAR
My son is a Senior and did not start travel until he was 13. He has been in the HS program all 4 yrs. My observation is that our HS coach may have some limited knowledge of the rising 9th grader's playing history, but for the most part he is evaluating what he sees on the field, off the field, in practice, and outside of practice.
Everybody thinks they know who the studs are going got be on the 9th grade team, based on which travel team they played on. But somebody forgot to tell the coach, b/c his lineup was way different than the consensus picks, which, looking back 4 years later, The coach's picks were pretty spot on.
The 9th grade team four years ago was about 2/3 travel, 1/3 rec/allstar kids. Does travel ball help you make the HS team? Maybe, maybe not.
Does playing against better competition as you grow and develop make you a better ballplayer?
Does throwing 100+ pitches every weekend since you were 9 yrs old make you injury prone in HS?
Does playing 70-100 games a year for 5 yrs before HS burn players out on the game?
Does playing travel ball with coaches who don't know how to instruct or provide proper instruction help a player get ready for HS?
These are all rhetorical questions of course. From my perspective, my son's late entry into travel ball has helped him in HS because he has a fresh arm on a staff that seems prone to having sore ones during the season.
Does playing against better competition as you grow and develop make you a better ballplayer? YES. no doubt
Does throwing 100+ pitches every weekend since you were 9 yrs old make you injury prone in HS? If your coach is having a 9 yr or any other pre-teenager throwing close to 100 pitches run away as fast as you can!!!
Does playing 70-100 games a year for 5 yrs before HS burn players out on the game? Very few teams play over 50 games a year let alone 100 and certainly not for 5 years.
Does playing travel ball with coaches who don't know how to instruct or provide proper instruction help a player get ready for HS? playing for any coach at any level that provides little or improper instruction certainly doesn't help kids improve.
From my perspective, not playing travel ball hurt my older son's attempt to play HS ball. He was behind in knowing how to hold runners, seeing an 80+ mph fastball, seeing a real change up, or a REAL 12-6 curve ball.
JMHO
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oldschooldad
203 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2012 : 11:50:58
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| Does it help, hurt, or make no difference for a kid to wear his ECB or 643 or Homeplate or another travel team jersey to the tryout? how else would the coach know he even played travel ball? |
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NF1974
62 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2012 : 12:33:43
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oldschool,
In our case, i think think the expectation is that you wear a highschool jersey with sleeves underneath. Our head coach is pretty particular about uniforms,hair length etc. Incoming freshmen usually have a highschool t shirt and returners have plenty. Also, in our case, fundraisers have already been going on and their have been plenty of opportunities to pick up baseball gear.
The boys fill out a form which asks where did you play last season? I think this is where they would see that you played travel. |
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RACGOFAR
208 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2012 : 13:28:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Catch3dad
[quote]Very few teams play over 50 games a year let alone 100 and certainly not for 5 years[/b][/blue].
I'd be curious to know how many teams out there play less than 50. I guess if you go three and out every weekend you might not reach that number. But if you include preseason, scrimmages and pickup games, play through mid July and play a Fall schedule, you are going to be way past 50 for most teams. Guess that's for another thread..... |
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AllStar
762 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2012 : 23:42:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Catch3dad
He was behind in knowing how to hold runners, seeing an 80+ mph fastball, seeing a real change up, or a REAL 12-6 curve ball.
JMHO
Your son didn't miss as many 80+ mph fastballs as you would think from reading this board.... |
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coachdan06
433 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2012 : 00:10:50
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Not if im coaching in fact i take it as someone or probably more like their parents trying to get an leg up just by the uniform shirt.
specially at east cobb baseball they got sooo many teams all educateds know only a few teams every age bracket are really good and then not all the players on those teams are really good
so if you want give a honest image of skills show up with a baseball sleeve tshirt and let the bat glove and brains do yur talkin !!
quote:
Originally posted by oldschooldad
Does it help, hurt, or make no difference for a kid to wear his ECB or 643 or Homeplate or another travel team jersey to the tryout? how else would the coach know he even played travel ball?
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peashooter
297 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2012 : 09:16:47
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Does throwing 100+ pitches every weekend since you were 9 yrs old make you injury prone in HS? I have to disagree with the folks here. I am a firm believer in throwing more makes you stronger. Your arm is a muscle it gets stronger by throwing. You don't have a set number of bullets in your arm. I used to throw 30 min bullpen sessions before a game. I pitched 2 games in a row on JV at walton. Now, if you have poor mechanics you will blow your arm out with more throws. So if you have poor mechanics, you are just buying your time until you child does blow out their arm by reducing innings.
My biggest suggestion is to long toss every day, and when I say long toss I mean it. Throw to the maximum distance your arm can do. Keep the ball low, walk into each throw, and hold the finish. I used to play long toss across the entire outfield with Vlad @ the Expos. My pitching coaches hated that sight. I am convinced my pro career was shorter because they significantly hindered how many pitches and throws you could do. I feel I got weaker in pro ball because the longest bullpen session was 10 minutes and long toss was limited to 120 +- feet.
I am almost 40 now and my arm feels great, and I can still bring it. Ask my players! |
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ATLawman
32 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2012 : 11:29:56
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Quote:
Not if im coaching in fact i take it as someone or probably more like their parents trying to get an leg up just by the uniform shirt.
specially at east cobb baseball they got sooo many teams all educateds know only a few teams every age bracket are really good and then not all the players on those teams are really good
so if you want give a honest image of skills show up with a baseball sleeve tshirt and let the bat glove and brains do yur talkin !!
??? Can someone please translate this ??? |
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klhmlh
42 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2012 : 13:47:02
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quote:
Originally posted by coachdan06
specially at east cobb baseball they got sooo many teams all educateds know only a few teams every age bracket are really good and then not all the players on those teams are really good
I see posts over and over about how ECB teams are watered down. Does anyone know last years combined records of all the current ECB 16u teams? Doesn't most of the young men on any of these 15u and up ECB teams have to be able to play a pretty high level of baseball?
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Transition from travel ball to HS ball
