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rippit
667 Posts |
 Posted - 10/13/2011 : 13:40:11
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Coach just informed the team that the TD put out the pool play schedule yesterday afternoon and then a follow up email stating "he just found out the city was charging a gate fee" or some such nonsense. This is costing our team an extra $150 on top of the entry fee. Parents say if they'd know that we could have elected to spend that $540 somewhere else.
This guy has done this before by gouging parents $6-$7 per person DAILY and NOWHERE does it ever mention team or individual gate fees nor will he address it except to say "it's standard protocol".
Never again Mr. Casteel. |
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dgersh22
169 Posts |
Posted - 10/13/2011 : 14:22:38
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Not that I am defending the TD by any means, but it is typical that he charges $6.00 per person over I believe 14 at every tournament.
I believe the reason for the gate fee is now since it is at Sawnee Mtn. Park a rather large Forsyth County Park that has more going on at it than this tournament, to avoid confusion at the entrance where they usually charge the addmission the county has most likely told him that he won't be able to charge it at the entrance.
I wish TD's would just put the entry fee at what it really should be (gate fee + tournament fee) and call it the entry fee. Regardless they are getting the money off the backs of the parents that are already paying the money. |
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Budman
5 Posts |
Posted - 10/13/2011 : 16:27:01
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| I hate gate fees. I like the way the TD in Monroe runs his tournaments. He charges a entry fee + $100 gate fee up front. I have seen teams collecting $10 from each family to cover the additional fee. It seems like the TD would prefer this way because of not having to pay someone to collect and the security issues. |
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rippit
667 Posts |
Posted - 10/13/2011 : 16:40:02
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| Not disagreeing with you. Just annoyed that it's never anywhere on the guys website or usssa. Could have gone to any number of tournaments for less. Poor planning by this guy. It's a business. He should suck it up. |
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Dr. Old School
314 Posts |
Posted - 10/13/2011 : 22:23:33
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Putting on tournaments is not a "Not for profit" venture. Whether it is a team putting it on as a fundraiser, or a TD that is trying to do this as a job. There has to be some benefit for people to go out and put them on weekend after weekend or otherwise they could not do it. To ask them to do it for no benefit is like asking the owners of Six Flags to not charge people to get into their theme park.
There are costs associated with putting on a tournament (field rental, umpires, workers, trophies, sanctioning fees, etc). Over the course of a Fri-Sun tournament, a TD can spend almost 40 hours at the fields. That is on top of any work he had to do during the week putting together the bracket, fielding calls or e-mails by teams, etc. That is his personal time that has value. To ask him to do it for free is not realistic.
I realize that there are people that don't want to pay to get in and watch their kids play, but there is a value to seeing these games. The team entry fees cover the kids playing, not the viewing of all the games.
Do I think there are some TD's that gouge people? Sure. But for the most part, TD's are out there trying to put on tournaments for kids to play in and enjoy. The problem is, things are not free. Everything has a cost. |
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Bullpen@
21 Posts |
Posted - 10/13/2011 : 22:51:22
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| Come on, how tough is it to just charge an entry fee for the tournaments and be done with the annoying gate fees. It is just a marketing ploy to list a tournament at a lower cost and get fees at the gate. Heck, one place comes to mind that even charges for 7 year olds. Like they have a choice to come or not. |
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Dr. Old School
314 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2011 : 09:35:50
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| I always preferred a team gate fee as opposed to the individual gate fee. That way family members that kind of want to come watch can do so without having to pay the individual gate fee. Some can only come for one game, but there is no way to pro-rate a gate fee. The value is absolutely with the team gate fee. |
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rippit
667 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2011 : 11:40:58
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Not buying into that the gate fee is the profit. Just attended a tourney at the same park for less entry fee and no gate fee. The info this guy puts out never referenced any gate fee per team otherwise. Others do. When making the decision where to play
coach looked at total cost and location. Passed up at least 2 other tournaments for this one only to find out too late about this increase to get out and go somewhere else. If this TD was planning all along to charge per head then why did he not state it? Something smells funny here. |
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Dr. Old School
314 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2011 : 12:59:22
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rippit,
I am not saying that you don't have a specific gripe in this situation. I just see too many people that get worked up about TD's charging for entry, as if charging for a youth event is some how a violation of people's rights and the misuse of the kids.
Over the past 15 years, I can count on one hand the number of times I have been to a tournament(As a coach, a parent, or just a spectator) that there was not a gate fee charged. It should always be "Expected" and when there is not one, that is just a bonus.
Now, if a TD has typically included his gate fee in the total entry fee, but this time still charges the same entry fee but throws in a team gate fee, or individual gate fee, that is a different story, and cause for complaint.
The rule should always be, expect that the entry fee just covers the team entry into the tournament and that there will always be a per person gate fee, unless otherwise stated. If you get there and there is no gate fee, then it is a bonus. |
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Jack-of-Diamonds
152 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2011 : 13:33:49
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We're in this one too. I missed that email until I noticed this thread. So, thank you for the heads-up rippit. As you said, it was too late to cancel and go play somewhere else, but at least I was able to give our parents fair warning.
Frankly, I think the issue of gate fees is something the USSSA needs to address. Maybe if enough people bring it up with the State Director we might see some changes.
1) Gate fees should be published in advance
2) It would be nice to have a regulated limit based on the type of event,
whether it be a per person rate or team fee (such as $3 pp or $50 team
fee at Qualifiers, $5 pp or $125 team at State Level, etc...). Better yet,
outlaw gates and make the TD's roll it into published entry fees (I know
one fairly local U-Trip TD who does this already).
I spoke to the GA State Director about another issue (combining a Maj team into a AA tourney). Though that situation was successfully resolved and the TD willingly corrected it, I was also advised "if you don't like the way the guy runs his tournaments find another TD you do like and enter those events instead." I know that was meant in the best spirit, and good advice to live by, but location is a big factor. A little more structure from the umbrella organization on fees, scheduling and last minute combining of classes would cure a lot of ills. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2011 : 13:37:16
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Personally, I just expect to pay a gate fee where ever we go. If there is none, I am happy. My son has been playing travel ball since he was 12 and is now 18 and I have a hard time remembering where there was not a gate fee to get in somewhere. If your expectation is to not pay a gate fee when you enter a tournament, you will be disappointed and angry almost every time.
Come on, you folks have been around long enough to know this is part of what is involved in playing travel ball. I don't know why every time you get in a tounament you act so surprised that you have to pay to get in. |
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Dr. Old School
314 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2011 : 14:46:33
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| I will say that I do agree that USSSA needs to get some consistency with how tournaments are ran. I believe this variability is strongly related to them allowing non-USSSSA representatives to be TD's. Unlike Triple Crown that are ran by a TC representative. If you don't know how TC tournaments are ran, then you probably are new to that sanction body or have not been paying attention. The game rules are the same, the pitching rules are the same, the gate fees are the same, the timing for listing teams entered are the same, the entry fees are the same, the time when the game times come out are the same, etc. |
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Budman
5 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2011 : 15:44:24
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| I think rippit's original complaint was the "not knowing" of additional fees once he showed up to the tourney. Most TD's will post gate fee info in the tournament information section on USSSA.com. |
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bbmom2
119 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2011 : 16:29:50
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| Agree with Rippit here. We had the same thing happen to us this past spring at a USSSA event in Roswell. No team gate fee announced then you get to the park and bam... team gate fee, where's the checkbook? We collected from the parents for it since checkbook was not there - why should it be? Wasn't announced. Went back and looked and it was not opn the information page. It should be announced if there is a gate fee and how much it is. I expect gate fees when I go and don't mind chipping in to help the team pay the team fees as they typically aren't included in the team budget. I would have to pay it anyway. In this case, it's just not right especially when the tournament is so expensive anyway. Not worth if for a few USSSA points in my book. |
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Raider Mom
29 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2011 : 16:30:15
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| Please charge the team up front in the tourney fee. Nothing is free I get it. Parents just need to bring food and drinks to the tourneys. We recently went to a park and they had no hot food for the players. It does get expensive for the families. Tourney fee, gate fee, concession stand for players and extended family, gas and last but not least the hotel charges. Not complaing, love travel ball! Though lets be realistic, the economy is rough and not getting better anytime soon. Give us a break TD's.....we would appreciate it. |
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gatraveler
58 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2011 : 23:24:38
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quote:
Originally posted by bballman
Come on, you folks have been around long enough to know this is part of what is involved in playing travel ball. I don't know why every time you get in a tounament you act so surprised that you have to pay to get in.
So just because that's how it is, everyone should just go along with it? I'm glad this country's forefathers didn't feel that way. The point is that there is now heavy competition in this business. Teams are shopping around for the best deal, and hiding gate fees from them is just wrong. Competition will drive the price down, and teams need to make that clear to TD's. Change won't come until we demand it. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2011 : 10:15:17
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quote:
Originally posted by gatraveler
quote:
Originally posted by bballman
Come on, you folks have been around long enough to know this is part of what is involved in playing travel ball. I don't know why every time you get in a tounament you act so surprised that you have to pay to get in.
So just because that's how it is, everyone should just go along with it? I'm glad this country's forefathers didn't feel that way. The point is that there is now heavy competition in this business. Teams are shopping around for the best deal, and hiding gate fees from them is just wrong. Competition will drive the price down, and teams need to make that clear to TD's. Change won't come until we demand it.
You're not going to find anyone more pro founding fathers than me. However, this is not the government forcing something down your throat with penalty of jail time. It is a choice to play travel ball and gate fees are part of that. All I'm saying is expect to pay it and once in a while you will be pleasantly surprised. It's not going away and the older your kids get, the more it's going to cost. |
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baseball1
56 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2011 : 10:53:29
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quote:
Originally posted by rippit
Coach just informed the team that the TD put out the pool play schedule yesterday afternoon and then a follow up email stating "he just found out the city was charging a gate fee" or some such nonsense. This is costing our team an extra $150 on top of the entry fee. Parents say if they'd know that we could have elected to spend that $540 somewhere else.
This guy has done this before by gouging parents $6-$7 per person DAILY and NOWHERE does it ever mention team or individual gate fees nor will he address it except to say "it's standard protocol".
Never again Mr. Casteel.
Another example of why USSSA has lost their Atlanta business , to Tony at Triple Crown .......TD's errors & omissions are not families / teams problem$ |
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AllStar
762 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2011 : 20:41:38
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| I'm surprised anybody still plays USSSA. We stopped after 3 bad experiences out of 4 tries in the 11 and 12 YO years. |
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Last minute gate fee/USSSA
