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ramman999
241 Posts |
 Posted - 05/23/2011 : 08:58:35
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A question for the group.
We've seen plenty of teams as young as 8 with players locked into certain positions for entire weekends. We've also seen teams moving around players all day, regardless of game or inning.
I'd like to think at the younger ages (11u and below) we are still trying to develop players, and each player has a primary and a back up position or two.
At what point does all that moving become a problem? I am a strong believer in chemistry, and feel that you lose out of some of that when you never keep a set infield in for more than a few innings a weekend.
Was curious to see what others opinions were.. |
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reallycoach
64 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2011 : 09:14:01
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depends on what the team goals and expectations are. Developmental teams generally move players around alot and will normally end up as 500 teams. Teams that find and set postions generally do better than 500 but are looking more at the win/loss totals.
Now with all that said, playing above 500 means deeper into tournaments and playing more games, getting more reps.
Majors teams are more advanced devlopment and are working game theroy while aa/aaa are working player development.
IMO |
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AllStar
762 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2011 : 09:18:06
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quote:
Originally posted by ramman999
A question for the group.
We've seen plenty of teams as young as 8 with players locked into certain positions for entire weekends. We've also seen teams moving around players all day, regardless of game or inning.
I'd like to think at the younger ages (11u and below) we are still trying to develop players, and each player has a primary and a back up position or two.
At what point does all that moving become a problem? I am a strong believer in chemistry, and feel that you lose out of some of that when you never keep a set infield in for more than a few innings a weekend.
Was curious to see what others opinions were..
Well, Winter Leagues are used for development of players generally from 18-22 years old. I think it never really stops.
I guess that it depends on the goals of the team. If the team has explicitly stated that their goal is to win, say, Cooperstown, the USSSA Major State or the Triple Crown Nationals, then development takes a back seat to getting the team prepared to meet their stated goal and it makes sense that kids "win" their positions and lineups, defenses and pitching rotations get set up and don't change except for injuries and slumps.
If you look at the vast majority of the recruiting efforts on this board and in tryouts, the coaching staff is committing to developing the players for the "next level", i.e. high school. Like it or not, that means everyone plays some, if not a lot. It means that kids get more opportunities to fail than if you are on a team whose top goal is winning games and tournaments. It also means that your studs don't play every inning of every game.
Personally, I don't get coaches of teams of players younger than 15 whose goal isn't for every player to be better than he was at the beginning of the season, but if you are up front that winning > development, at least you've set expectations appropriately.
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2011 : 10:04:09
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| My question is why can't you have both?? Many of these teams are loaded with top talent and loaded with boys who are extremely versatile! Some of these major teams don't do anything but win90-95% of their games EVERY year....Are they not getting better?? I would wonder how you can continue to win at a ridiculous clip from 7-13U and not get any better? You can have it both ways, but many coaches with ZERO baseball background often use "development" as an excuse to move their son around or an excuse for losing. |
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ramman999
241 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2011 : 11:29:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Spartan4
My question is why can't you have both?? Many of these teams are loaded with top talent and loaded with boys who are extremely versatile! Some of these major teams don't do anything but win90-95% of their games EVERY year....Are they not getting better?? I would wonder how you can continue to win at a ridiculous clip from 7-13U and not get any better? You can have it both ways, but many coaches with ZERO baseball background often use "development" as an excuse to move their son around or an excuse for losing.
This weekend, case in point. Championship game, Kid on the mound gives up 7 runs in 2 innings on 6 errors - 4 errors are by players playing positions they are not the primary or secondary for - HUGE difference between being down 1-0 in the 2nd inning and 7-0. Completely changed the dynamic of the game, and although maybe doesn't change the outcome.
I'd like to think you can do both too - granted sometimes the ball just finds the wrong kid that is in the wrong spot at the wrong time, and maybe I am just venting, but it is frustrating to not go to a "lock down" lineup in a big spot AND still have a commitment to this philosophy. I think every team has it's primary and secondary position players identified - why wouldn't those be your Championship Sunday starters? |
Edited by - ramman999 on 05/23/2011 11:39:41 |
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cam1
39 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2011 : 11:58:40
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| I coach at 15u. We have only 12 on our roster, it's tight. We bat and play all 12 everygame. We are, I think competitive. We play at all levels of competition. Our goal as 3 dad coaches is to get all 12 of our guys better for highschool. All of our guys have multiple positions on the field. It works for us, but probably isn't for everyone. |
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jongamefan
218 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2011 : 12:47:48
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quote:
Originally posted by cam1
I coach at 15u. We have only 12 on our roster, it's tight. We bat and play all 12 everygame. We are, I think competitive. We play at all levels of competition. Our goal as 3 dad coaches is to get all 12 of our guys better for highschool. All of our guys have multiple positions on the field. It works for us, but probably isn't for everyone.
CAM:dont know your team ID but its the best way to go for everyone yeah even the parents who cant rant rave and grumble cuz johnny isnt on the field behind a kid who ya just know is a lesser player than he
Who wants a summer of that misery
Winning then is iceing on the cake
But just gotta get the right crowd of players to keep it afloat :
Lotsa teams try this only to satisfy huge over bareing parents who just wont sit for johnny not being out there every single inning that always causes dramatic problems to the chemistry tho not that will they care
Best success to you
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reallycoach
64 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2011 : 12:56:51
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I beleive it is correct majors teams get better, but they get beter at differnet things.
They get more conistent. Kind of like the 10-13 player who makes highlight reel plays and blows the routine out, or the batter who is hitting 650 until bases are loaded with two outs and strikes out. AS they continue to be presented with these situations these players get better at handling that pressure. However, they spend less time on fundamentals ( right or wrong) than AA/AAA teams.
Keep in mind Majors teams generally practice less but play many more games then the typical aa/aaa teams. This is where they learn to control emotions and stay focused regardless of the situation. |
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ramman999
241 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2011 : 13:26:29
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quote:
Originally posted by reallycoach
I beleive it is correct majors teams get better, but they get beter at differnet things.
Keep in mind Majors teams generally practice less but play many more games then the typical aa/aaa teams. This is where they learn to control emotions and stay focused regardless of the situation.
I think your on to something, but I don't know about the practice less, maybe more efficiently, or more so on advanced techniques and situational awareness... What I've seen (at least at 8u - 11u) is that the Major/Premier level players practice 5x as much - maybe only one or two with their team, but they also hit and drill on their own, as well as maybe get some instruction outside of "practice" They are the kids that actually do the towel drills when they get home, every day, on their own 
Also, the 9-11 kid on a major team skill wise can be the 3-5 kid on an AAA team, and a 1-3 kid on an AA team.. I always believed the major difference between an AAA team and a Major team is the drop off after the first 4 or 5 players.. |
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cam1
39 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2011 : 13:28:21
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We are really lucky. Have a great group of boys, most of which have been together awhile. I'm with Titan Baseball out of Cumming. It can be challenging though. We had 3 boys this weekend that couldn't play in the field. Having only 9. Had plenty of guys playing new positions.
I have seen some really great coaching at the major level, thats what seperates those teams IMHO. |
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AllStar
762 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2011 : 14:59:30
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quote:
Originally posted by cam1
I coach at 15u. We have only 12 on our roster, it's tight. We bat and play all 12 every game. We are, I think competitive. We play at all levels of competition. Our goal as 3 dad coaches is to get all 12 of our guys better for high school. All of our guys have multiple positions on the field. It works for us, but probably isn't for everyone.
So refreshing.
And you're pretty darn good, too.
Well done. |
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hotcorner
67 Posts |
Posted - 05/23/2011 : 21:50:34
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| Would it be safe to say if your boys are playing multiple positions they are getting a lot of reps at those postions in practice so they are prepared for a game. I see coach's move kids around who have seen very limited reps in practices at those positions. My question is what are the best ways to practice for developing boys as all around baseball players to include pitching, hitting, running, fielding, etc... |
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reallycoach
64 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2011 : 08:46:38
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| Ramm, you are correct they practice more on thier own. AS far as team practices, half as much at best. Typically two team practices a week or more if no tourney scheduled. But they'll play 80-90 games over the course of a season as opposed to 40-60. These players usually spend a significant amount of time with instructors. |
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When does development become a hindrance
