| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
CharlieHustle
11 Posts |
 Posted - 05/16/2011 : 10:31:08
|
| On our 10U major travel team, we have had many long discussions about the right age to begin throwing curveballs. A high school coach who pitched for UGA told me that as long as they throw it correctly, they can start at any age. A former Atlanta Braves pitcher with over 300 wins, said "when they get their drivers license". These are very different answers. I believe that too many fastballs can be as detrimental (or more) to the young arm as the curveball. I would like to hear some other opinions on this controversial topic. For a travel team, do you prevent all of the kids on the team from throwing curves until a certain age or is it left up to the parents ? |
|
|
LLH
98 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2011 : 11:38:16
|
We have arm injuries on our 14u team and this comes straight from the doctor that one of our player is using. The torque that is put on the elbow when throwing a curve ball is not a natural motion. He said that you can separate the growth plate at the elbow. He said that until you have hair under your arms it is not solidified.
IMO if you start throwing a curve ball too early you will be done by HS. Stick with a change up. It will get you a lot farther. |
 |
|
|
loveit
26 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2011 : 11:43:32
|
| There is a previous discussion on this subject that you would probably enjoy reading. It was titled "Why Throw Curveballs Now" authored by DuluthHardball on 5/19/2010.It has 29 comments to read. |
|
|
|
christheump
351 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2011 : 11:56:05
|
| My oldest didnt start throwing one until 15/16 on a regular basis. He always messed around with it but never really started working on it until them...His hammer has some major movement on it, and he also has a nasty screw ball that he will throw on ocassion, but never more than a few times. The most devistating pitch at the youth age is a good change up IMO. |
|
|
|
in_the_know
985 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2011 : 12:31:47
|
quote:
Originally posted by CharlieHustle
On our 10U major travel team, we have had many long discussions about the right age to begin throwing curveballs. A high school coach who pitched for UGA told me that as long as they throw it correctly, they can start at any age. A former Atlanta Braves pitcher with over 300 wins, said "when they get their drivers license". These are very different answers. I believe that too many fastballs can be as detrimental (or more) to the young arm as the curveball. I would like to hear some other opinions on this controversial topic. For a travel team, do you prevent all of the kids on the team from throwing curves until a certain age or is it left up to the parents ?
Best advice I've ever read or heard is that as soon as they have mastered the fastball and changeup, then and only then should you really think about adding any other pitches. At that time, you can be concerned with the next conversation of "are they physically ready". Basically, youngsters have growth plates until they hit puberty and the growth plates harden and no longer become an issue. Until that time, their growth plates will always be at risk from throwing in general (absent any additional torque from throwing junk pitches). Even after that, proper mechanics are needed. Too many kids at 10u aren't throwing with proper mechanics already.
As to WHO makes the call, you as the coach can clearly state, our team won't do it, then it doesn't matter what the parents say. If you as a coach, state that you WILL do it, then you should certainly respect any parent's decision to have their son excluded from being taught or coached to throw them.
Best thing you can do at 10u is teach proper mechanics, hitting spots, changing speeds, holding runners and fielding the pitching position. There's PLENTY of time for these kids to learn a curveball. No need to rush it unless you value winning little pieces of plastic more than your player's future baseball careers. |
|
|
|
aginga
25 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2011 : 15:14:37
|
In The Know, very well said. Seems there are several teams at 11u on up who are putting kids at risk throwing the curveball. Our team was at GA Tech this weekend and visited the locker room. One of our kids asked a GA Tech pitcher when did he start throwing curveballs and he said at age 15 and recommended not to do it any sooner, even with perfect mechanics. It was good for the kids to hear it from someone not a coach or parent.quote:
Originally posted by in_the_know
quote:
Originally posted by CharlieHustle
On our 10U major travel team, we have had many long discussions about the right age to begin throwing curveballs. A high school coach who pitched for UGA told me that as long as they throw it correctly, they can start at any age. A former Atlanta Braves pitcher with over 300 wins, said "when they get their drivers license". These are very different answers. I believe that too many fastballs can be as detrimental (or more) to the young arm as the curveball. I would like to hear some other opinions on this controversial topic. For a travel team, do you prevent all of the kids on the team from throwing curves until a certain age or is it left up to the parents ?
Best advice I've ever read or heard is that as soon as they have mastered the fastball and changeup, then and only then should you really think about adding any other pitches. At that time, you can be concerned with the next conversation of "are they physically ready". Basically, youngsters have growth plates until they hit puberty and the growth plates harden and no longer become an issue. Until that time, their growth plates will always be at risk from throwing in general (absent any additional torque from throwing junk pitches). Even after that, proper mechanics are needed. Too many kids at 10u aren't throwing with proper mechanics already.
As to WHO makes the call, you as the coach can clearly state, our team won't do it, then it doesn't matter what the parents say. If you as a coach, state that you WILL do it, then you should certainly respect any parent's decision to have their son excluded from being taught or coached to throw them.
Best thing you can do at 10u is teach proper mechanics, hitting spots, changing speeds, holding runners and fielding the pitching position. There's PLENTY of time for these kids to learn a curveball. No need to rush it unless you value winning little pieces of plastic more than your player's future baseball careers.
|
|
|
|
Grandcoach
21 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2011 : 19:20:50
|
| Part of the problem could be that those observing do not know what a true curve ball is, because a properly thrown two seam fastball will move somewhat like a 12 to 6 curveball. I have heard many parents and opposing players confuse this. Need to read the spin, and if the curve ball is thrown with the fingers pointing up then it can lead to problems. Experts states that there is no extra stress on the arm if a curve is thrown properly at any age. The key word here is "Properly", which is not the little league curve ball. Younger players need to concentrate on location, and controlled movement, and develop a good change up which will also move downward. Development is more important than winning at these younger ages, but I know this will be hard for some to understand. Hope this helps some! |
|
|
|
CoachDad
52 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2011 : 01:27:00
|
The answer to your question depends on if you would rather win some trophies when your kid is 12 or if you think he might end up wanting to play past middle school without having to make regular trips to the doctor.
In theory, if a curve is thrown properly, it may or may not do damage to the growth and development of the child's body. Who do you trust enough to teach your child to "properly" throw that curve and gamble with his future?
If your child needs to be a junk man to get batters out, perhaps you could teach him the sinker, the fork, the circle change. If he is a pitcher, then work on locating the four wire fastball, getting the two seam to dance and pulling a string on that changeup. Get the boy some infield help.
You are right, too, about the fastballs being detrimental. There is no substitute for teaching your kids to care for their arms. That's not just for pitchers, though. |
|
|
|
bluecup
49 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2011 : 06:44:14
|
The latest studies from the medical community indicate that the idea that kids hurt their arms due to throwing curveballs at too young an age is not true (the number of pitches is more important than what type of pitch):
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/26/sports/baseball/26score.html
"Each study concluded that curves are less stressful than fastballs and, based on the data collected, contributed little, if at all, to throwing injuries in youth players."
[However, to develop as a pitcher, learning to spot your fastball would likely be more beneficial to long term success.]
Appropriate age to throw a curve is also discussed here:
http://asmiforum.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=youth&action=display&thread=569&page=1 |
|
|
|
NotANewby
6 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2011 : 22:23:23
|
There is no reason to throw a curveball at a young age and risk injury. The most effective young pitchers against our team could hit their spots consistently and had change ups that fooled us easily.
I started teaching my son a knuckleball 2 years ago just for kicks and he can actually throw one with almost no spin now and has used it a few times with good success. Knuckleballs are great offspeed pitches with no stress to the arm but it takes a LONG time to learn. I imagine with about 3 or 4 more years of practice he will be able to throw it consistently every game. And then you can keep your curveball. :) |
|
|
|
CharlieHustle
11 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2011 : 10:09:28
|
Thanks for the responses. I did search for the topic before I posted, but I did not find the other threads. Our coach is completely against throwing curves, and I have prevented my son from throwing them. I am sure that there are many kids who will throw curves and not have any arm issues, as well as kids that never throw curves and do have arm injuries. I have noticed that when the kids start messing around with curves, at least initially, their other pitches suffer. Personally, I prefer that my son dedicate himself to learning everything that he can about pitching (without throwing curveballs). As stated by in_the_know, hitting spots, changing speeds, holding runners and fielding the pitching position will require more than 100 % of his efforts.
If you watch the Little League playoffs & world series this summer, you will see most, if not all, of the 12 yo pitchers throwing curves (sidenote: Dr. James Andrews is on the Little League board). In 2006, Little League partnered with the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill for a five-year study to determine if curves and other breaking pitches exacerbate arm injuries in youth. The results will hopefully be available this year. |
|
|
|
ramman999
241 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2011 : 11:47:03
|
I think that in the younger ages, most kids throw what they "think" is a curveball because it does have some break. In fact, I know from my own son's release and arm slot that the movement he gets on his fastballs and change ups can look like a curveball. He does not throw one, and I would never show any of my 10u kids how to throw a curve ball, nor will I call one in a game. But plenty of them play with throwing one on their own. I've got a few side-armers that you would swear are throwing one based on the movement, but they don't
Now, I've seen kids we've played throwing slip pitches, but to see a kid snap off a real curve would make me cringe.. A good fastball and change will get you real far - I like the 15+ age cut off myself - ... |
|
|
|
T13
257 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2011 : 12:47:40
|
New studies are in "Dr. James Andrews, the world's foremost athlete surgeon, and his team at American Sports Medicine Institute have recently finished extensive studies they say prove, conclusively, that throwing a curveball enacts no more force on the arm than a fastball. That's the good news. The bad news? Throwing a curve early can lead you down a dangerous road.
"It's not the pitch that's the problem," says Andrews. "It's the fact that kids who are throwing curveballs at the youth levels are generally dominant because young kids can't hit it," Which means that the kids who throw curveballs at that age will be trotted out to pitch as much as possible—and to throw their 'out' pitch as much as possible.
"We've tracked Little League games right through the Little League World Series, and as the competition grows, the kids throw curveballs up to 70 percent of the time," said Glenn Fleisig, PhD, Director of Research, ASMI, who co-authored the study with Andrews. "It's good that Little Leagues have enacted rules on pitch counts, but for say, a kid in the Dominican, if you see an unusually developed curveball at an early age, who knows the mileage on that arm?"
And mileage is what it's all about. In short, the curveball isn't a dangerous pitch per se. The real problem is never one pitch. It's pitching, period. Or too much of it, anyway."
|
|
|
|
SSBuckeye
575 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2011 : 13:17:42
|
| I fully acknowledge that Dr. Andrews is a world-renowned expert in this field, and I am not. But, I know what I've seen with my own two eyes, and you're crazy if you think that kids throwing curve balls at 10u-11u aren't doing harm to their arms. I get that it's possible to safely throw a curve ball. It's just that you so rarely see a kid doing it correctly. Why take the chance? For a $6.50 trophy? |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
Curveball Age
