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22202
263 Posts |
 Posted - 05/14/2011 : 21:40:45
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OK, so I read the USSSA multiple roster theard but would like a clairification.
#1 Can a player be on two different rosters for the same year, for the same age group, for 2 different teams at the same time?
#2 Does it matter if one team is "qualified" for a world series and one is not that they are registered online for?
#3 Who would the protest need to go to? The TD or the head umpire in charge?
Seems simple. Chris the Ump, do you know the rule? |
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in_the_know
985 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2011 : 23:03:45
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quote:
Originally posted by 22202
OK, so I read the USSSA multiple roster theard but would like a clairification.
#1 Can a player be on two different rosters for the same year, for the same age group, for 2 different teams at the same time?
#2 Does it matter if one team is "qualified" for a world series and one is not that they are registered online for?
#3 Who would the protest need to go to? The TD or the head umpire in charge?
Seems simple. Chris the Ump, do you know the rule?
#1 - PRIOR to being frozen on a roster - YES, a player can be on 2 or more different teams at the same time within the same age group. Note, they cannot participate on multiple teams during the same day, event, week, weekend or tournament whether in the same or different age group.
#2 - YES, it matters, because at that time, the qualified team's roster becomes frozen.
#3 - I would start with the umpire, but expect it to go to the TD since it's a rule interpretation question. According to the Protests section of USSSA rulebook:
12.01 Umpires will work to settle all situations on the field. Protests will be allowed for age and pitching violations or rule interpretations only. Protests must be declared to the Umpire-in-Chief and then to the League / Tournament Director before the next pitch following the dispute. If a call to be protested is the last recorded out of a game or on a game ending play, the protest MUST be filed prior to the umpires and the protesting team leaving the field of play. No protest will be allowed following the game. League / Tournament officials will rule on all protests and their decisions shall be final.
From the u-trip rules and by-laws, check out 3.05.A.1 & 3.05.B.1 below. It would appear that they could be on multiple rosters provided that none of the rosters are frozen. Here's a link to the complete rule book.
http://www.gausssabaseball.com/images/uploads/pdffiles/Rule_Book.pdf
3.05 Player Roster Eligibility –
3.05.A PRIOR TO BEING FROZEN TO AN OFFICIAL ONLINE ROSTER;
3.05.A.1 Players shall be permitted to participate with multiple teams in the same age division.
3.05.A.2 Players shall only physically play for one (1) team per day, event, tournament, week or weekend, regardless of age division and / or classification.
3.05.B AFTER BEING FROZEN TO AN OFFICIAL ONLINE ROSTER;
3.05.B.1 Players shall only appear on one (1) Official Online Roster per age division and shall only participate with such frozen team (unless previously released pursuant to these rules).
3.05.B.2 Players participating in multiple age divisions shall only appear on one (1) Official Online Roster per age division and shall only participate with such frozen team(s) (unless previously released pursuant to these rules) but shall not participate on any team below the classification of the oldest team in which they participate on.
3.05.B.3 Players shall only physically play for one (1) team per day, event, tournament, week or weekend, regardless of age division and / or classification. |
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rippit
667 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2011 : 12:48:57
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This concerns me too. We actually have a player frozen on our roster under his first name, last name per his birth certificate. He is on another roster under his middle name, last name and there are multiple variations of name spellings in years past for this same player. He has not asked to be released as he plans to play at least 2 more tournaments with us this year, yet he continues to play with this other team and I believe is supposed to play with them in a USSSA tourney in June - but is afraid he will suffer the wrath of the other coach if he asks to be removed from that USSSA roster right now as they mainly play a lot of independent tourneys.
I'd like to know the deal here. Should we release him? Or should the other team since our roster is frozen and their's isn't? |
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AllStar
762 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2011 : 17:19:51
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For Triple Crown, go to your tournament, Event Rules, Event Procedures:
"Rosters: May never exceed 20 players during the tournament series and Triple Crown World Series. If you have players quit or transfer to a different team, they remain frozen spots on your roster. Example: If your roster has 13 players at your first tournament, you then have 7 spots left to fill throughout the remainder of the qualifying season and before the Triple Crown World Series in Steamboat Springs (CO). At any given time, a player may only appear on one Triple Crown roster, regardless of age division. Before a player can be added to a second roster, that player must be released by his/her original manager; a player may only transfer one time during the season and may not transfer back to his/her original team.
BEFORE YOUR FIRST TOURNAMENT: Please print your roster off this site, get a signature from each player's parent or guardian, and bring the completed roster to the tournament. Any player without an authorized signature on the roster has no Triple Crown rights and assumes full personal liability for any action at a Triple Crown sponsored event. A team must only roster once per season; Triple Crown will keep your roster on file for future tournaments in the same season.
TRANSFERS: Player transfers are allowed if the original manager completes the "Player Release Form" and the form is submitted to a Triple Crown Representative at the time of the transfer. Call 970-223-6644 to request a copy of the Player Release Form.
NOTE: Triple Crown Sports reserves the right to review individual situations and make final decisions on roster rules. Triple Crown Sports also reserves the right to review player transfers and issue decisions on roster moves." |
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in_the_know
985 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2011 : 20:46:29
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quote:
Originally posted by rippit
This concerns me too. We actually have a player frozen on our roster under his first name, last name per his birth certificate. He is on another roster under his middle name, last name and there are multiple variations of name spellings in years past for this same player. He has not asked to be released as he plans to play at least 2 more tournaments with us this year, yet he continues to play with this other team and I believe is supposed to play with them in a USSSA tourney in June - but is afraid he will suffer the wrath of the other coach if he asks to be removed from that USSSA roster right now as they mainly play a lot of independent tourneys.
I'd like to know the deal here. Should we release him? Or should the other team since our roster is frozen and their's isn't?
This one's pretty easy. USSSA rules specifically state HOW a player is required to be listed on their online registration:
"3.03 A player shall be eligible to compete in the USSSA Baseball program as long as he abides by the USSSA Constitution and the Official Baseball National By-laws & Rules when his first name, last name (no middle names, nick names, shortened names, slang names, initials, prefixes or suffixes are allowed) and date of birth (in proper format – mm/dd/yyyy) are listed EXACTLY as they appear on his original birth certificate, as a member on an eligible team’s Official Online Roster.
3.04 A player who is in violation of USSSA Constitution or the Official Baseball National By-laws & Rules shall be an illegal player."
Not much room for misinterpretation here. If he is particpates under any other names or birthdates, he (and the offending team) is in violation of the rule and thus, according to rule 3.04, is an illegal player.
If you look further into the rules below, the team manager is responsible for meeting the rules for the online roster. Not sure how USSSA rules with regard to the player becoming illegal for one or both rosters, and if one, which one, but since we're talking about USSSA and their Directors making the ruling, you can guarantee that the ruling will likely be inconsistent and senseless. I would suspect that the teams with him listed by any name other than his First and Last name per his birth certificate would be the teams found in violation.
"3.06.F The team manager shall be responsible for all aspects of eligibility of the players and the information of the players contained on the team’s Official Online Roster pursuant to these rules. This includes but is not limited to; age eligibility, classifications of teams the players may participate on in other age divisions, classifications of previous teams the players may have participated on, legal names of the players, and correct dates of birth of the players.
Rule 3.06.F Comment: A player’s first name, last name (no middle names, nick names, shortened names, slang names, initials, prefixes or suffixes are allowed) and date of birth (in proper format – mm/dd/yyyy) MUST be listed EXACTLY as they appear on his original birth certificate pursuant to USSSA Rule 3.03.
3.06.F.1 The intentional or unintentional act of adding ineligible players to the team’s Official Online Roster shall be grounds for team manager suspension.
3.06.F.2 The intentional or unintentional act of incorrectly spelling a player’s name on the team’s Official Online Roster shall be grounds for team manager suspension.
3.06.F.3 The intentional or unintentional act of incorrectly entering a player’s date-of-birth on the team’s Official Online Roster shall be grounds for team manager suspension.
3.06.G State Directors shall have the authority to approve or reject all players contained on a team’s Official Online Roster. Such authority is to include player additions and / or releases prior to and subsequent of being frozen except when a player addition or release has been approved by the USSSA Baseball National Committee. State Director approval of a team’s Official Online Roster shall not release the team manager of his responsibilities pursuant to these rules." |
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prestont
197 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2011 : 10:21:43
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We played up in Chattanooga this weekend, and one of the parents on a team we faced said there was a kid that played on 2 different teams in the SAME tourney.
Evidently the kid played for team 1, left and played for team 2 for about a month, then returned to team 1. One of the parents said they were walking around watching games, and saw the kid playing for the other team on another field after playing with them in the morning.
Not sure how that works but definitely thought it was odd.
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ljames
48 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2011 : 12:54:59
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quote:
Originally posted by prestont
We played up in Chattanooga this weekend, and one of the parents on a team we faced said there was a kid that played on 2 different teams in the SAME tourney.
Evidently the kid played for team 1, left and played for team 2 for about a month, then returned to team 1. One of the parents said they were walking around watching games, and saw the kid playing for the other team on another field after playing with them in the morning.
Not sure how that works but definitely thought it was odd.
Not legal at all.
3.05.B.3 Players shall only physically play for one (1) team per day, event, tournament, week or weekend, regardless of age division and / or classification. |
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in_the_know
985 Posts |
Posted - 05/16/2011 : 15:19:44
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quote:
Originally posted by prestont
We played up in Chattanooga this weekend, and one of the parents on a team we faced said there was a kid that played on 2 different teams in the SAME tourney.
Evidently the kid played for team 1, left and played for team 2 for about a month, then returned to team 1. One of the parents said they were walking around watching games, and saw the kid playing for the other team on another field after playing with them in the morning.
Not sure how that works but definitely thought it was odd.
If it was a USSSA tournament, then definitely illegal. If it was another sanctioning organization, then probably illegal, but you'd need to check their specific rules regarding rosters. All my comments on this thread are specifically stating USSSA rules since the OP asked for USSSA clarification. |
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Shut Out
512 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2011 : 09:18:36
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| What about different age groups? |
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rippit
667 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2011 : 10:12:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Shut Out
What about different age groups?
My understanding is this for spring ball/USSSA: example - 14U AA and 13UAAA okay as long as you don't play for both teams in the same weekend. Both rosters frozen too. Doesn't matter.
Due to some kids dropping off at some point in the next month, we are getting kids (or trying to )to fill in during non sanctioned tourneys as we are frozen and can add only 3 for USSSA. Those guys can't be frozen on other rosters and play USSSA with us.
Likewise, my son is now on the hunt to pick up weekends he was supposed to be playing with our team, but due to people suddenly being too busy for baseball and thereby cutting our tournaments down due to lack of roster players, he is left with no team playing in some tournaments and wants to fill in for other teams - within the rules of course. |
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in_the_know
985 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2011 : 10:39:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Shut Out
What about different age groups?
Prior to rosters being frozen, they can play on multiple rosters within the same age group AND other age groups.
After rosters being frozen they can no longer be on additional rosters within the frozen age group, nor can they appear on rosters BELOW the age group of the frozen roster. For example, if your kid's lowest legal age group is 13u, he can be on rosters of a 13u, 14u, 15u, etc. team. If he's on a frozen 14u roster, then he can still be on the 15u Roster, but may no longer be on the 13u Roster (unless released by the 14u Team), nor could he be on any other 14u roster.
"3.05.B.2 Players participating in multiple age divisions shall only appear on one (1) Official Online Roster per age division and shall only participate with such frozen team(s) (unless previously released pursuant to these rules) but shall not participate on any team below the classification of the oldest team in which they participate on."
At no time can a player be playing on multiple teams (within the same age group or different age group) during the same day, week, tournament, etc. per rule 3.05.A.2 & 3.05.B.3 |
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yankeedad
133 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2011 : 12:31:04
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@Shut Out
I think ljames answered your question in his post:
3.05.B.3 Players shall only physically play for one (1) team per day, event, tournament, week or weekend, regardless of age division and / or classification. |
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rippit
667 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2011 : 12:41:09
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| in the know - then this rule is being broken by a few. personally know a kid on a 14AA frozen roster and a 13AAA frozen roster. alternates weekends playing with each team. |
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in_the_know
985 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2011 : 14:00:48
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quote:
Originally posted by rippit
in the know - then this rule is being broken by a few. personally know a kid on a 14AA frozen roster and a 13AAA frozen roster. alternates weekends playing with each team.
Unless someone reports it, it will likely continue. But in the case you raise, according to the rules the player cannot be on ANY other 14U than the frozen team and on NO rosters below 14U age group. |
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baseballready
188 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2011 : 15:29:44
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What if the 13AAA team was frozen first and then the 14AA? Seems this would be acceptable.
quote:
Originally posted by in_the_know
quote:
Originally posted by rippit
in the know - then this rule is being broken by a few. personally know a kid on a 14AA frozen roster and a 13AAA frozen roster. alternates weekends playing with each team.
Unless someone reports it, it will likely continue. But in the case you raise, according to the rules the player cannot be on ANY other 14U than the frozen team and on NO rosters below 14U age group.
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2011 : 16:16:21
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quote:
Originally posted by rippit
in the know - then this rule is being broken by a few. personally know a kid on a 14AA frozen roster and a 13AAA frozen roster. alternates weekends playing with each team.
It would have to be reported for anything to be done about it.....It doesn't really matter tho IMO...It is just another way to keep a kid off the field. If his dad is ok with his son playing 4 million innings a season it wouldn't be my business to report it. A lot of coaches will stop at nothing to keep their team from the top, even if it means keeping a 12-13U kid that loves baseball off the field...Some teams just don't play enough baseball to satisfy some families or boys, so they look for other teams to pick up with. |
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Shut Out
512 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2011 : 16:46:29
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| where i see it broken over and over is where their name is just a little differnt on each roster. e.i. John Doe on one roster and Jonathon Doe on the other. |
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T13
257 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2011 : 14:35:11
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| If you read the rule.....its Classification (A, AA, AAA, etc.) that matters not age....so if you are playing on a 13AAA which is frozen you can play on a 12 AAA team, but not a 12 AA team! |
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Kids on multiple teams
