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Catch3dad
90 Posts |
 Posted - 04/27/2011 : 18:50:31
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There has been a lot of talk regarding what makes a team fun and successful. Most seem to center on a head coach and parents understanding and agreeing with the philosophy of the team. You may think "winning is the only thing that matters" or believe in playing everyone and don't care if they win or lose. Most of us are probably in the middle somewhere. But what should the role of the assistant coaches be in determining that philosophy? Should Jr's dad automatically become the assistant on his team? What about the other parents,coaches, and players? Does it change if most of the team is returning and Jr's dad is made a new assistant coach? What role should the new coach take? Should he have any say over playing time or batting order? What if he wants to make major changes to the roster or the playing personality of the existing team? What about the other parents and players that choose the team based on the head coach, the players, and the make up of the team the previous year or before the new coach was in the picture?
My son was with a very strong Major team that made significant roster changes from one year to the next. Those changes were ones that most of the returning parents understood. But then a new dad was made an assistant coach was well. IMO it was all down hill from that point on. Many kids left or were "encouraged" to look for a different teams etc. I have found a new team for my son and am very glad I did. Bottom line in my case was the new assistant coach was a major negative. Do others have similar situations?
I am really looking for both sides of things. Have there been coaching changes to your team that have made a major positive impact as well?
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2011 : 22:51:14
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| Too many dads feel the need to coach IMO....I appreciate anybody who will give the boys the time and help them learn but some people just flat out don't have the experience around the game to coach. Some teams have 7 coaches and make decisions by committee but I think the successful head coaches welcome the input but at the end of the day THEY MAKE THE DECISION!!! There is nothing worse than an assistant coach with no clue that makes an ignorant decision, only to have 5-6 other coaches who won't speak up to fix the problem... |
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stafcoach1
10 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2011 : 06:41:15
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| Assistant coaches are as important as the head coach and should be a reflection of the values and philosophy of the head coach. My most successful assistant coaches were hired on and had no dog in the fight. College kids that either play at the collegiate level or have played through high school and travel are a great resource. The kids on the team will listen because the age barrier isn't so different and they seem to relate to one another. IMO. |
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Hurricane
351 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2011 : 08:51:38
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| If a coach, head or assistant has a player on the team make sure he is really one of the best 4 or 5 on the team. If not you will run into problems all season. Most dads don't look at their son objectively. Feel like they deserve to play just a little more than the next player because they are volunteering their time to coach. Even some head coaches will give more opportunities to other players because they feel like they owe the parents for helping with menial tasks they rather not be bothered with. Whether unconscious or not. I seen a coach never say a word to his son for missing a ball or not being where they are suppose to be on a play, but when it's another player, really get loud about it or try and point out the mistake made by the other players. At least be consistent with all players. We have an assistant coach this season whos son is one of our top five and no one says a word. Another assistant whos son could be bottom 3 and people assume the head coach plays his son more because dad is helping. |
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AllStar
762 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2011 : 10:21:16
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I would always run practice plans, pitching plans and lineups past my Asst Coaches beforehand and ask for input, suggestions, etc. Most of the time they either didn't respond or responded "Looks good."
Occasionally they would make suggestions. I usually incorporated the suggestions. On the rare occasion I didn't we talked it through. A couple of times they convinced me. When I didn't I just knew that if something looked or went wrong, I was going to get the grief for it, so I stuck to my guns.
A couple of times people complained about moves that we had made at an Assistant Coach's suggestion. I NEVER, NOT ONCE, threw an assistant under the bus. Basically said, "We all talked about it, but it was my decision."
Can't say I always got the same courtesy. |
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ramman999
241 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2011 : 13:35:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Hurricane
If a coach, head or assistant has a player on the team make sure he is really one of the best 4 or 5 on the team. If not you will run into problems all season.
I think that when it comes to dad coaches, this is true - the top 5 or an extremely knowledgeable baseball guy with no ego - the last thing you need is someone who pays for play (fund raising, helps out, does the grunt work) simply so his son can play - gotta ask yourself - would that player make the team if his dad wasn't a coach?
quote:
Originally posted by Hurricane
I seen a coach never say a word to his son for missing a ball or not being where they are suppose to be on a play, but when it's another player, really get loud about it or try and point out the mistake made by the other players.
I think thats from jealousy and egos get in the way and if someone feels threatened because they son maybe isn't carrying his share, they deflect onto others.
I've also seen this work a little in reverse too - a daddy coach so obsessed with what his son is doing on the field during practice that it takes away from the others. You have dad running the outfield, but too busy watching his son take infield, for example. |
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HITANDRUN
436 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2011 : 09:26:03
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Good point Ramman99, I have seen some dads going crazy when their son isn't doing well but let others slide. Di-tracts from the whole team.
I have also seen coaches putting the same players in the same positions (usually their kids) over and over with the same results and not even trying to change it up. Then pretending they don't know what is wrong. Hey your son missed 4 routine ground balls at SS and threw 3 over the first basemans head, in the last three games so we gave the other teams 7 extra outs, the other coaches son playing catcher had 10 pass balls, maybe we should try some other kids in their positions. |
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tmeigs37
72 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2011 : 22:03:24
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| I am an ex professional and collegiate player who is doing it for the love of the game and do not have any relation to any kid or parent and my assistants are ex college players in the same boat zero relation to any kid or parent just there to make these kids better ball players by this time next year. I have a real job in medical sales and my assistants just finished their college career. So I try my best to avoid the parents being to involved for that reason now i have asked some dads to assist with some drills etc but thats the extent. |
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oldschooldad
203 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2011 : 22:46:25
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Recently saw an assistant coach working with a team before the game and in the dugout during the game that gives me some concern. The coach in question is presently prohibited from being involved with any team in any role or capacity by a very large, national recognized association; he is not even allowed to attend games as a spectator. The event I saw him at was sanctioned by a different organization but I was able to confirm that he has attended and helped to coach this team in various events that have been run and sanctioned by the same association that has officially excluded him.
My question is does anyone know what the penalty for his actions are? Does the team involved get penalized? What about the head coach for letting this occur? Are the players penalized? Are the penalties retroactive to events he was involved in previously?
How does one make the appropriate people aware of the infractions?
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coachdan06
433 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2011 : 01:59:27
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i say to all the parents who do not like the assistant coach;
you do not get to decide who the assistant coach is although he certainly owes you respect and also you owe him respect
if ya cant live with this then its either become a coach yourself or move out quickly so not to trouble others who actually are enjoying the team ,that includes your son - the assistant coach is not there for your approval
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Hurricane
351 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2011 : 09:13:58
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quote:
Originally posted by ramman999
I seen a coach never say a word to his son for missing a ball or not
I've also seen this work a little in reverse too - a daddy coach so obsessed with what his son is doing on the field during practice that it takes away from the others. You have dad running the outfield, but too busy watching his son take infield, for example.
We used to have a guy coaching 3B for us who was always talking to his son in the dugout while coaching third or while his son was on deck. Never paying attention. He left our team the next year and when we played them the next season we would have our catcher throw behind their runners at 3B when the coaches kid was batting or on deck because he was talking to him or watching him too closely. We picked off 3 guys in one game. |
Edited by - Hurricane on 05/10/2011 10:08:37 |
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AllStar
762 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2011 : 09:27:17
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quote:
Originally posted by oldschooldad
Recently saw an assistant coach working with a team before the game and in the dugout during the game that gives me some concern. The coach in question is presently prohibited from being involved with any team in any role or capacity by a very large, national recognized association; he is not even allowed to attend games as a spectator. The event I saw him at was sanctioned by a different organization but I was able to confirm that he has attended and helped to coach this team in various events that have been run and sanctioned by the same association that has officially excluded him.
My question is does anyone know what the penalty for his actions are? Does the team involved get penalized? What about the head coach for letting this occur? Are the players penalized? Are the penalties retroactive to events he was involved in previously?
How does one make the appropriate people aware of the infractions?
I saw that in my older son's rec league. I would imagine there are bylaws that you can look up and there should be a web site with points of contact to report it to.
I would also assume that they forfeit any game that he was part of. Depending on the organization, it could probably be retroactive, especially if it is something like USSSA or Triple Crown and the games in question qualified the team for some sort of Champions of the Universe tournament in Paris or London or Orlando....
The rec example I saw should be reported not because of wins, but because people thought they were signing their kids up to play for Coach A and they got Coach B. I feel sorry for those kids and parents.
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Hurricane
351 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2011 : 14:09:31
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quote:
Originally posted by oldschooldad
Recently saw an assistant coach working with a team before the game and in the dugout during the game that gives me some concern. The coach in question is presently prohibited from being involved with any team in any role or capacity by a very large, national recognized association; he is not even allowed to attend games as a spectator. The event I saw him at was sanctioned by a different organization but I was able to confirm that he has attended and helped to coach this team in various events that have been run and sanctioned by the same association that has officially excluded him.
My question is does anyone know what the penalty for his actions are? Does the team involved get penalized? What about the head coach for letting this occur? Are the players penalized? Are the penalties retroactive to events he was involved in previously?
How does one make the appropriate people aware of the infractions?
If the national recognized association is a sex offender registry, I would call the cops. |
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3sondad
220 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2011 : 14:45:28
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I know people intend to do their best and try do things for the right reasons. Then others don't even try.
How many teams have you been part of that EVERY kid tried out the next season? It has happened to us once in 10 seasons of travel ball. One of the dad's during that teams second year tryout said something to me like "when a team tries to improve the talent, they degrade the parents." The first season was great and we exceeded expectations and everyone wanted to be part of the team. They made numerous changes and brought in a couple of new coaches and ended up with one coach and four assistants. It seemed to me four assistants were there for their kids and their kids only. The new parents were vocal with their complaints to anyone and everyone. No more team after that season. Half of the coaches kids quit baseball.
We joined a team in the fall one year. There were two coaches. All during winter workouts, two coaches. Come the first tournament we have FIVE coaches all over the dugout. When I asked how the hell did that happen the manager said... "Well one guy said he was going to pull his son off the team if he did not get to coach. Then the next guy heard what happened and he said he would pull his son if he did not get to coach and then the next guy ...." That turned out to be a lousy season for everyone involved. I think only three kids went back to that team. And only one coach survived.
Standing on the soap box ;-)
I have noticed that when you have more than three coaches the dynamics of the team can get out of hand. We have four coaches on my son's team and last I checked it is two against two. (Good thing we didn't add another assistant). The parents and the assistants are demanding winning tournaments. Without really knowing knowing or understanding what it takes. The parents blame the coach and the assistants, the coaches blame the coach and the parents, the coach blames the coaches and the parents. etc. I am sure most of these discussions occur in front of their kids and that can lead to problems in the dugout (especially at the older ages). Anyway, I saw a weakness in my son's team and volunteered to help that area out at practices. (Not a coach, a dad helping out.) I don't have any expectations of the team winning without the preparation. I believe you teach the boys to win in ALL parts of the game, give them a strategy, and most importantly YOU do everything YOU can do to build the kids' confidence. I want them to believe when they pitch they can hit the flea that just landed on the catcher's mitt. When they hit I want the confidence not only that they will hit the ball, but they will hit it hard. When they field they have the confidence enough in themselves to believe they will catch every bad bounce and to believe that the person in front of them cannot get to the ball and it is going to be their play to make. It is only then, a funny thing happens, the wins start to come. Without any blaming or name calling, the wins will come. Without the five coaches yelling at the players while standing in front of the dugout. Without the parents screaming onto the field. The wins will come. Without the parents calling the coaches after every game. The wins will come. IMHO any conversations between the coaches, the coaches and parents, and the parents to parents should be about how to help each other to build the boys' confidence. Not did you hear what Suzy said about Coach? Did you hear what Coach said about Suzy? Hey coach, Tom said you should be doing this at practices and especially that during a game. It does not take any of that junk to win. Build the kids' confidence and let it happen, DON'T HINDER IT!!!
Off soap box and on to the next baseball field. ;-) |
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RACGOFAR
208 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2011 : 08:50:31
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Having several assistants can cut both ways. The team culture plays a part in it as well. Some teamas are built and managed simply to win and there is nothing wrong with that. At the other end of the spectrum are teams that simply want to play ball together and have more control than they woudl in a rec. program.
What I've seen over 11 years generally is teams whose focus on winning tend to be in harmony so long as the winning continues. But when the winning stops as it inevitably does during a season, things start to blow up and parents begin to question coaching decisionsand turn their focus towards their son.
Multpile assitants works for us because our focus is on development and competing. We want to win as much as anyone else; however, we view winning as a byproduct of that focus. Our assistants have head coaching experience and could easily manage/head coach a team if they wanted to. That sounds like a recipe for disaster, but we consider it positive. Each have a responsibility: Pitching/bulpen, bases and defense, and dugout. Each coach is responsible for that area of the team's performance, which includes practice planning for their assigned areas. Last year I coached 3rd base and was the head coach. This year, I am the Manager and sit in the dugout. This has helped our team tremendously for many reasons.
When you coach a base and are the head coach, you miss a lot of stuff going on in the game that is important. Particularly things going on in the dugout. Now I am much more tuned in to the game and the boys' focus and attitude. The dugout coach and I spend a lot of time keepng the boys centered and focused and helping them stay off the results rollercoaster. This has translated into better execution and performance for the team as a whole. Its rare that any team plays their best and loses. But if you play your best baseball, does it really matter that you lost the game? Not to me. Most teams lose because they beat themselves: leadoff and 2 out walks, multiple errors, loss of focus leading to poor execution at the plate on the bases and defesne, etc. Giving the other team a win by beating oursevles are the losses that drive me crazy!
Having strong assistants works for us because we all share the same coaching philosophy and we all have the same vision for the team. Of course we don't always agree and I regularly ask for their input. But when the rubber hits the road, final decisions on things like the lineup, the defense and the rotation are mine and mine alone.
As parents, we naturally want what's best for our own son. As coaches, we have to do what's best for the team, not each individual player. When parents, players and coaches buy into this kind of team culture, the team will thrive. Its easy to buy into the "we want to win" culture. you can't buy in to the "team" cuture. It has to be nurtured and grown and it is hard to do and even harder to keep. But boy when you get it, its fun for everyone and it it does not matter how many assitants you have involved. |
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Hurricane
351 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2011 : 13:46:32
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quote:
Originally posted by RACGOFAR
As parents, we naturally want what's best for our own son. As coaches, we have to do what's best for the team, not each individual player. When parents, players and coaches buy into this kind of team culture, the team will thrive. Its easy to buy into the "we want to win" culture. you can't buy in to the "team" cuture. It has to be nurtured and grown and it is hard to do and even harder to keep. But boy when you get it, its fun for everyone and it it does not matter how many assitants you have involved.
I love this part of your post. A great coach will do what is best for the team. |
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Stinger44
49 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2011 : 13:53:54
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quote:
Originally posted by RACGOFAR
Having several assistants can cut both ways. The team culture plays a part in it as well. Some teamas are built and managed simply to win and there is nothing wrong with that. At the other end of the spectrum are teams that simply want to play ball together and have more control than they woudl in a rec. program.
What I've seen over 11 years generally is teams whose focus on winning tend to be in harmony so long as the winning continues. But when the winning stops as it inevitably does during a season, things start to blow up and parents begin to question coaching decisionsand turn their focus towards their son.
Multpile assitants works for us because our focus is on development and competing. We want to win as much as anyone else; however, we view winning as a byproduct of that focus. Our assistants have head coaching experience and could easily manage/head coach a team if they wanted to. That sounds like a recipe for disaster, but we consider it positive. Each have a responsibility: Pitching/bulpen, bases and defense, and dugout. Each coach is responsible for that area of the team's performance, which includes practice planning for their assigned areas. Last year I coached 3rd base and was the head coach. This year, I am the Manager and sit in the dugout. This has helped our team tremendously for many reasons.
When you coach a base and are the head coach, you miss a lot of stuff going on in the game that is important. Particularly things going on in the dugout. Now I am much more tuned in to the game and the boys' focus and attitude. The dugout coach and I spend a lot of time keepng the boys centered and focused and helping them stay off the results rollercoaster. This has translated into better execution and performance for the team as a whole. Its rare that any team plays their best and loses. But if you play your best baseball, does it really matter that you lost the game? Not to me. Most teams lose because they beat themselves: leadoff and 2 out walks, multiple errors, loss of focus leading to poor execution at the plate on the bases and defesne, etc. Giving the other team a win by beating oursevles are the losses that drive me crazy!
Having strong assistants works for us because we all share the same coaching philosophy and we all have the same vision for the team. Of course we don't always agree and I regularly ask for their input. But when the rubber hits the road, final decisions on things like the lineup, the defense and the rotation are mine and mine alone.
As parents, we naturally want what's best for our own son. As coaches, we have to do what's best for the team, not each individual player. When parents, players and coaches buy into this kind of team culture, the team will thrive. Its easy to buy into the "we want to win" culture. you can't buy in to the "team" cuture. It has to be nurtured and grown and it is hard to do and even harder to keep. But boy when you get it, its fun for everyone and it it does not matter how many assitants you have involved.
Well said...
Coaching my 9 yr old last fall in Rec bball I knew I blew it when when right after a mistake on a crucial play he looked at me on the bench :(
As a dad I see it in baseball all of the time.
If a kid is more focused on how a coach will react to their play rather than focusing on the play, doom is at hand.
I think it is why so many kids leave baseball the first chance they get.
An overbearing coach, dad or not but especially so, is ten times more damaging than an apathetic parent.
Seeing how some coaches and assistants browbeat can you blame a kid for bolting? |
Edited by - Stinger44 on 05/11/2011 14:03:05 |
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Thequestion
3 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2011 : 15:03:44
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quote:
Originally posted by oldschooldad
Recently saw an assistant coach working with a team before the game and in the dugout during the game that gives me some concern. The coach in question is presently prohibited from being involved with any team in any role or capacity by a very large, national recognized association; he is not even allowed to attend games as a spectator. The event I saw him at was sanctioned by a different organization but I was able to confirm that he has attended and helped to coach this team in various events that have been run and sanctioned by the same association that has officially excluded him.
My question is does anyone know what the penalty for his actions are? Does the team involved get penalized? What about the head coach for letting this occur? Are the players penalized? Are the penalties retroactive to events he was involved in previously?
How does one make the appropriate people aware of the infractions?
What is the penalty for a coach that is suspended from USSSA being involved in coaching a new team during USSSA hosted events as well as USSSA santioned events? No particular penalty listed in rules.
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Assistant Coaches
