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baseballmom1
6 Posts |
 Posted - 04/02/2011 : 19:09:04
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Got a question for all of you ball coaches? I want to know why a coach wants to play daddy ball by moving every single player around in positions to please the parents or child? I do not understand it cause, it cant be good for each player to be moved around from one position to another. So can you please give me your advice on this.
These are older boys 11 and up |
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Gwinnett
791 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2011 : 20:21:33
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| Mom, there's a lot of varibles on this question. Is this during pool play or bracket play? What level do these 11u players play at, ie--A,AA,AAA,Major? How many players are on your team? When you say "daddy ball" do you mean coach has a son? Does coach move his son? Are there boys playing a position they can't handle? Are the parents telling the coach what to do? More detail will help answer your question. |
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baseballnutz
427 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2011 : 20:35:16
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| One reason might be the coach is preparing the boys for the next level. When the HS coach asks hey "Johnny" go play RF he won't be lost because his coach stuck him on 2b for the last 5yrs and he never shagged flys or worked on back ups or relays from the OF. The old saying is if you can hit the coach will find a spot for you isn't always the case when most can swing it as good as the next. Being able to play many positions gives the kids a chance to get on the field as they move forward. It's not always about winning today. |
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AllStar
762 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2011 : 21:37:48
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11 YO's are not older boys. The kids should learn how to play multiple positions. The only problem I would have is if they were to put kids in positions that a) they are completely unsuited for, b) really put the team at a competitive disadvantage. Some kids are just built to play the corners or catch, some are built to play middle IF and OF.
On our younger teams (10-12) we let everybody that wanted to pitch have a shot, or a couple of shots. Some of them quickly realized they didn't want to pitch as much as they thought. 
Not to mention we only had 11 players on our 11U team. Everybody had to play at least 2 positions.
Not sure how moving kids around is daddy ball. Maybe some more details on what he is actually doing and when would help.
Finally, if your son only wants to play one position, maybe he should let the coach know that. Might mean some time on the pine when other boys are playing that position, but if that's what he wants...
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2011 : 22:53:12
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| I have never heard people say moving kids around is daddy ball.....It is usually the other way around I thought?? I think all the boys should play innings in the OF and the IF. Mine is a much better SS than a CF but he gets many innings in the OF. Now I am not a big fan of moving kids around on Sundays or during elimination games, but some teams are good enough to pick the defensive positions out of a hat and still win. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2011 : 09:16:25
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quote:
Originally posted by baseballnutz
One reason might be the coach is preparing the boys for the next level. When the HS coach asks hey "Johnny" go play RF he won't be lost because his coach stuck him on 2b for the last 5yrs and he never shagged flys or worked on back ups or relays from the OF. The old saying is if you can hit the coach will find a spot for you isn't always the case when most can swing it as good as the next. Being able to play many positions gives the kids a chance to get on the field as they move forward. It's not always about winning today.
I agree with this 100%. Curls to this coach for teaching the kids to play all positions. And Baseballnutz is right. When you get to HS, you don't know where the team is going to need you. You could be asked to play anywhere. The more positions a kid is comfortable playing, the better his chances of getting in the lineup. In my book, this is way more important than winning at this young age group. No one will remember who won what at 11u. Playing on your HS team will be much more memorable. Keep things in perspective. |
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loveforthegame25
448 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2011 : 10:08:30
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| I think we need a definition of daddy ball to continue this topic. |
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coachdan06
433 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2011 : 23:47:59
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quote:
Originally posted by loveforthegame25
I think we need a definition of daddy ball to continue this topic.
Game you are right on.
daddy ball is to us as grandparents watching the next generation promote their own offspring to the detriment of the team usually to resolve there frustrations as a youth player
no one else has a chance at the son or daughters positions or place in the bat order and if that hurts the team which is typically does then you got daddy ball
most parks both rec and travel put up with it because those are the guys who are most willing to put up with the loudmouth parents who typically don't know anything about baseball or sports in general : so that they can be the coach of a team and ya gotta tip your cap on that one !
most people walk quick after dealing with dysfunctional people but these zealous dads hang in there especially when there son wouldn't be on the team otherwise , so its a fair balance in my eyes.
what I dont know here is why moving players around is daddy ball unless the lady means coach is movin em around to satisfy the good ol boy network entrenched in the park : my resolution to that one is get up and get out of that park at earliest opportunity if that's the custom behavior with the coaches and there network of dads |
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christheump
351 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2011 : 09:25:41
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quote:
Originally posted by loveforthegame25
I think we need a definition of daddy ball to continue this topic.
To me a perfect example of daddy ball is most rec league all star teams...It seems that only the coaches kids get picked for all stars regardless of playing abilities. |
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Gwinnett
791 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2011 : 09:53:44
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Ump, isn't that the truth! I thought it was bad in baseball but now I am dealing with softball and its even worse....lol
quote:
Originally posted by christheump
quote:
Originally posted by loveforthegame25
I think we need a definition of daddy ball to continue this topic.
To me a perfect example of daddy ball is most rec league all star teams...It seems that only the coaches kids get picked for all stars regardless of playing abilities.
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AllStar
762 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2011 : 12:45:29
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quote:
Originally posted by 2playersmom
o yea and coach its to only way to handle a daddy ball park it is to get away from it
We took the boys out of a local park and amazingly enough they were good all-stars the next year at a different place .
So the All Star coaches at the new park didn't have sons on the team?
You've struck gold. |
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Alter-Ego
802 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2011 : 13:14:07
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Of all the dad's I have ever seen that coached their kid, I cannot recall a single example of that dad not being accused of daddyball, at least an occurrence or two. Even the coaches that had clearly the best player on the team still got accused of it when their kid stood out. Maybe it is because when your kid is pitching or hitting, or making a play, it is almost impossible to disconnect yourself from the excitement as a parent.
He starts to hear "He always watches his kid bat but when my kid is hitting, he is always talking to one of the other coaches." or "When his son is pitching he is watching every pitch, but when my kid is on the mound, he just watches the batter and catcher." Eventually feeling guilty about giving any praise out loud to his kid.
The coach eventually either quits paying as much attention to his kid (and misses the thing that we as parents want to see most of all, our kids being successful in the game.) or quits coaching so he can watch his kid without having to hear complaints from other parents. Both are a shame. |
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christheump
351 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2011 : 14:02:39
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| Not bashing daddy-ball, and there is nothing wrong with the coach of the all-stars having their kid on the team. But I have witnessed too many times, all the kids on the team are sons of the coaches who coached the teams in the league that year. Some worthy...some not so worthy. But to say that type of "brotherhood" doesn't exist is just wrong. |
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Stinger44
49 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2011 : 14:18:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Alter-Ego
Of all the dad's I have ever seen that coached their kid, I cannot recall a single example of that dad not being accused of daddyball, at least an occurrence or two. Even the coaches that had clearly the best player on the team still got accused of it when their kid stood out. Maybe it is because when your kid is pitching or hitting, or making a play, it is almost impossible to disconnect yourself from the excitement as a parent.
He starts to hear "He always watches his kid bat but when my kid is hitting, he is always talking to one of the other coaches." or "When his son is pitching he is watching every pitch, but when my kid is on the mound, he just watches the batter and catcher." Eventually feeling guilty about giving any praise out loud to his kid.
The coach eventually either quits paying as much attention to his kid (and misses the thing that we as parents want to see most of all, our kids being successful in the game.) or quits coaching so he can watch his kid without having to hear complaints from other parents. Both are a shame.
I think Alter-Ego is right.
What kind of dad does not want the best for his kid?
Unless I was paying for coaches who had no kids on the team I would expect some 'Daddy Ball'.
In fact, a coach who has a kid and gives them the cold-shoulder for appearance sake shows poorer judgment than one who fudges* a bit.
Give me a break, coaches are people too! (most of them anyway)
*yes I know it may detract from other players but that's the rub isn't it? At what point do we see enough and pick up the line-up card? At some point a lot of us decided it was just easier to complain.
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TAZ980002
831 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2011 : 14:41:09
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| To me, it's simple to explain Daddy Ball. It's when a Dad coaches so that he has control of what positions his son plays/where he bats in the lineup. The Dad is simply not willing to take the chance that his son won't play where he thinks he should. Maybe he's always coached him, maybe he started coaching because he couldn't handle someone else deciding where and when his son plays. It's not always bad for the team but most of the time it causes problems. Some Dads are very realistic of where their son stands in regards to talent and some are clueless. Of course there are some in between also. |
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AllStar
762 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2011 : 15:26:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Bandit_Hawk
To me, it's simple to explain Daddy Ball. It's when a Dad coaches so that he has control of what positions his son plays/where he bats in the lineup. The Dad is simply not willing to take the chance that his son won't play where he thinks he should. Maybe he's always coached him, maybe he started coaching because he couldn't handle someone else deciding where and when his son plays. It's not always bad for the team but most of the time it causes problems. Some Dads are very realistic of where their son stands in regards to talent and some are clueless. Of course there are some in between also.
That's probably a pretty good summation.
What percentage of the coaches do you think fit your "worst case definition", i.e. he does it to the detriment of the team?
Conversely, what percentage of the coaches' kids really are among the top players on their teams? |
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Alter-Ego
802 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2011 : 17:09:13
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I am going to take a "off the top of my head" swag.
I think 20% of the coaches have kids that are in the top 5 on the team.
I think 60% of the coaches have kids that are somewhere in the middle and don't really do anything with their kid that significantly affects the ability of the team to compete.
I think there are 10% of the coaches who have a kid on the team that is in the bottom 2 but don't really do anything with their kid that significantly affects the ability of the team to compete.
The remaining 10% are the coaches who have kids in the bottom 2 but play them in key positions, and in key spots in the lineup, that causes their team to not be able to compete.
Unfortunately these coaches stand out so much that it makes it look like the numbers are a lot higher.
These are travel ball numbers. I believe league ball is more like 5%, 40%, 25%, and 30% respectively.
Just my opinion. |
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rippit
667 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2011 : 21:01:16
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I'd like to look at it another way. He's had coaches who pushed him down so he wouldn't overshadow their kid.He had one coach who batted him last in the lineup so other coaches wouldn't consider him for allstars. He's had coaches who put their little circle of friends kids in all the wrong spots causing that team to lose all the time. All we want is for him to have an equal chance to shine and prove his stuff.He's worked very hard to get to the top of his current team and it's very hard for him to deal with the pressure of staying on top bc he now hears all the yammer from the parents who have kids sitting in the dugout. Our current head coach is a great guy but is a big old softy. I let the chips fall and try to keep my distance. However, it does seem that lately, the squeaky wheels are getting the grease.
This brings me back to the topic of whether stats should be published. When it gets like what we are currently experiencing, I say YES!! Let the numbers talk!!! |
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biged
198 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2011 : 07:37:45
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A bigger problem is when Daddy Ball spreads to include assistant coaches and friends of assistants. As a player it is difficult to deal with one kid who has a position locked down, but when a team has several positions sewed up it becomes impossible to get fair treatment. One obvious sign of Daddy ball is when you see four or more uniformed coaches in the dugout. One of my favorite shames is when a paid coach is hired by dads. Now you have $$$$$$ influencing coaching decisions. Dad or Dads and their friends are essentially the "board of directors" acting as CEOs. They will usually hire some young ex-college ball player who is easily manipulated.
When my son was ten he played for a very successful travel ball team (runner up in Cooperstown and Pony National Champs, Fl state champs). Head coach had a kid on the team. He was without and doubt the weakest player on the team. Coach said, Hey do you think I would coach this if my son wasn't playing? I know my kid is the weakest player and you know that he is going to play 2nd base regardless of ability. If you don't like it, see yea. At least he was honest and everybody knew where they stood. |
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HITANDRUN
436 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2011 : 07:51:01
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I will throw my 2 cents in. It has been my experience that most coaches who played a pretty high level of baseball (College and up) will tend to play less daddy ball than those that never played the game at all. I think that is one of those life lessons baseball teaches you about earning your spot or working to keep it.
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jongamefan
218 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2011 : 09:28:06
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great thing we saw about high school ball was that all this dads sons and friends sons favortism nonsense + manipulation went strait out the window
thats when the previous dad's favored kids found out the way things really were and where they really stood against others - and so did there dads !  |
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lownotside
8 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2011 : 11:12:39
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| What if your kid is a pretty good outfielder...but his true ability is at pitching. How will his true ability ever be recongized if the coach dosen't move the kids around? Its travelball if your not happy with the coach find a new team. |
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ddhubbart
11 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2011 : 13:30:06
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| Its a lose-lose for everyone. If you have a kid who is a star and his dad is the coach you will still have someone complain. The first thing a non-coaching parent needs to do is ask their kid "Are you happy?" My son plays on a fantastic 9U team. He is left handed so his positions are limited. However, we have several kids who sit quite a bit and hit at the bottom of the order and these same kids are perfectly happy even though they would shine elsewhere. We have been blessed with coaches who teach team first. |
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itsaboutbb
164 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2011 : 22:54:25
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| Lets get back on track...moving kids around I think gives the kid a better baseball IQ. They will learn it quicker and understand what to expect from their teammates during the game. My sons team does this with my son. They have him play all over. He has played 5 different positions. Some games when he comes out of the dugout I wonder were he is going next. He loves it and at 13 he knows when its high school time he will have a slight advantage over a kid who only knows one position. |
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davidh6265
27 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2011 : 01:22:46
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| I'm not defending "daddyball" at all, but GENERALLY SPEAKING, coaches' sons are better ball players than the average kid on the team. Maybe because those dads have spent a lot more time throwing the ball in the front yard with the kids from a very early age. |
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AllStar
762 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2011 : 09:52:33
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quote:
Originally posted by davidh6265
I'm not defending "daddyball" at all, but GENERALLY SPEAKING, coaches' sons are better ball players than the average kid on the team. Maybe because those dads have spent a lot more time throwing the ball in the front yard with the kids from a very early age.
I just did a quick, unscientifc review of 5 JV rosters with players that I am familiar with. It looks like about 50% of the players' dads coached them at one time or another that I know of for sure. I don't know how many of them are playing a lot, a little or not at all.
I think Alter Ego took a swag at some percentages that are probably pretty realistic, i.e. daddy ball exists but is probably not as prevalent/universal as you would think from reading this board. Especially in travel. Could be a case of disgruntled customers being more vocal than satisfied ones.
Of course past results are not indicative of future returns and your mileage may vary.  |
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moving players around from position to position
