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bmoser
1633 Posts |
 Posted - 02/04/2011 : 17:09:32
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Points well taken bballman. When you've been through this all before and get a chance to look back, you gain perspective. No doubt us first timers can learn from more experienced Dads/Coaches. I often post in the older age groups seeking advice. You can go to "13U Field Size" topic to see my most recent query.
I'm just unwilling to learn the lesson right now that cut off dates have no impact on baseball success. There is too much evidence to the contrary. Maybe I'll come around to your way of thinking if my son sticks with it long enough. |
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6bomber
68 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2011 : 19:18:26
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| thanks 4 the input bballman. i have done the same with my son. he has played competitive travel ball since 8u. starting 13u this year. he has stayed with the same group of kids and coaches all the way. i didn't decide to play with this group, he did. hope my son keeps his interest in ball throughout school. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2011 : 22:32:09
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Moser, my stance on the age cutoff is this. It is what it is, so why worry about it. No matter where the cutoff is, there will be older birthdays and younger birthdays. The stats may show that certain birthdays produce more players at the higher levels, but there are still a lot of players with "bad" birthdays that move on.
When the age cutoff was August 1st, my son was always one of the youngest, and one of the smallest, but was always one of the best on the team. Didn't really matter. Untill he played 12u for the 2nd time, he never played a game of baseball being the age of the age group he played in i dont think it hurt him. I actually think it helped him because he had to perform up. He was challenged and had to meet that challenge. When he played his 1st year of travel at 12u, he was 11 the whole time and still got the team MVP award. That was as the 2nd youngest kid on the team. And he possibly the smallest kid on the team.
After the age change, he had one of the "good" birthdays. But I think his make up and skills were developed and ingrained from those years playing with a "bad" birthday. It came in handy when, as a 5'8", 150 lb. Freshman, he was a starting pitcher for the HS varsity team. Pitched complete games against the two teams who wound up playing each other for the 5A state championship. He beat one of them. He was not intimidated playing against all those huge seniors because he was always playing against kids that were bigger and older than him when he was younger. That's what I think anyway.
Anyway, like I said, it is what it is. If your kid has a "bad" birthday, there's nothing you can do about it. Don't make excuses, don't give your kid an excuse. Expect him to perform. Expect him to be as good or better than the other older kids. Expect him to have fun and enjoy what he is doing. I think if you do that, he will be well prepared by the time he gets to HS. Regardless of what month he was born in.
Just my thoughts. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2011 : 23:46:48
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So, your saying that if you have a "bad" birthday, you might as well give up? Maybe the majority of the people who make it the majors have a "good" birthday. So what? That still leaves a lot of people with a "bad" birthday who have also made it. I don't accept that if you have a "bad" birthday that your fate is sealed. It's just not true.
I have seen the studies, but refresh my memory. What percent are they saying are the majority? Is it 51% or 75% or 90%? My other question would be what is the percent of the general population who have a birthday during the "good" birthday months vs the "bad" birthday months? Is there a higher percentage of people in general born during these months?
Either way, this should never be used as an excuse. If there are 750 MLB players and 75% have a " good" birth month, that's 563 players. That means there are 187 players in the MLB with "bad" birthdays. Why can't your kid or my kid or some other Georgia kid with a "bad" birthday be one of the 187. It's not impossible to be successful with a "bad" birthday. Why use it as an excuse? Work hard, play hard and be one of the minority.
Bmoser, I'm not really sure what you mean by you prefer to discuss the majority. Does that mean you just accept that "bad" birthday kids will not make it? They say that 90% of new small businesses fail in the first year. Does that mean that people should not try to start their own business? I say of course not. If that were the case, this country would not be anywhere near the greatest country in the world - as it is. People should be able to dream and have opportunity to achieve those dreams. They should never be handcuffed by something like "the majority don't succeed". If you're trying to say that "bad" birthday kids have an inherent disadvantage, I just don't accept it. If a kid has talent, he should pursue his dreams and he should have the opportunity to go as far as that talent will take him - regardless of the month he was born. |
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2011 : 17:08:23
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bballman:
You are making a lot of false pretenses. I'm just stating the facts, birth month matters in the success of an athlete. That's all. The majority agree. I am not saying or insinuating anything else. |
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SluggerrrJack
3 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2011 : 22:41:38
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bballman,
Did you say your son has a July birthday, is 17, and a junior? If so, he has a great baseball birthday –one of the oldest in his grade and on his travel team. If this is true, I’m not sure how you can say age doesn’t make a difference. IMO, playing up at 11 and 12 isn’t the same as playing up or completing against older players in high school and beyond.
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2011 : 08:59:55
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Yes, that is what I said. So he does have a good birthday for HS. He has a middle of the road birthday (IMO) for travel. However, I also said that from 7 - 12, he was 3 weeks away from the age cutoff. So for those ages, he was one of the youngest. His last year playing before the date change, he was the second youngest and probably the smallest kid on the team and still got voted MVP for the season. I believe that those years of playing up against kids that were almost a year older than him helped shape who he is today.
I also think that Moser and I are coming at this from two different angles. I could be wrong, but I think Moser is saying that the facts are - the age cutoff date helps those kids whose birthday falls soon after the cutoff. That is probably true since those kids will be older and presumably bigger having matured sooner. I am just saying that regardless of that, if your kid has a late birthday relative to the age cutoff date, he should continue to strive to excel and be the best. There is nothing in any study that says there are NO players who don't reach the next level due to their birthmonth. I don't think any one out there should give up or allow their kids to give up because they don't have an optimal birthmonth. It is still possible to excel regardless of birthmonth. That's just the way I feel about it. |
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Stinger44
49 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2011 : 11:13:00
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Well, what we have here is two people battling for their ideas.
One relying on cold facts the other standing on principle.
I lean toward bball because of some of his sparkling posts, but off course hard facts are hard to argue.
Maybe it is time to say lets just agree to disagree and move on.
Might I suggest it end on an adult level ...perhaps a wiffle bat battle while dressed in full catcher gear a la Wii Sports Resort ? |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2011 : 11:49:33
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Stinger, I am not ignoring the facts, I'm really just talking about my perspective on how to deal with them. Like I said, if 75% of Major Leaguers have a desirable birthmonth, that still leaves 25% who don't. It is not impossible to make it to the next level with a non-desireable birthmonth. Why use it as an excuse - I am not implying that you have done that Moser, not at all. I'm just saying, it can be done. Our kids birthday's are what they are, we can't change them. So why worry about it? Like I said, it's not the facts I'm arguing about, just my resonse to it and how to deal with those facts.
I'll leave it at that. No more posts on it. |
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msmiga
50 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2011 : 14:20:30
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Hello All.
There have been a number of studies performed over the years regarding "Relative Age Effect" in sports; many of which can be found in the Journal of Sports Sciences. These studies are usually summarized on a handful of pages making reading time minimal. Exclusively on the subject of baseball there was a study done by Thompson, Barnsley, & Stebelsky some years back. I apologize for not including anything here as I could not recall the title and therefore could not retrieve a site from which to access the study. Still, there all very similar no matter the sport so I'm including a few links to those. Most, if not all refer to the "relative age effect" when players are younger, yet the studies seem to reveal that the gap in performance, in general, decreases as the players age. Both are Adobe .pdf files.
Here are a couple links to studies -
http://www.international.ucla.edu/cms/files/soccer.pdf
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/blogs/freakonomics/pdf/RelativeAgeEffectSportsMusch2001.pdf
Good Luck to you all this coming Season.
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2011 : 16:19:40
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msmiga:
I shared this thread with a Dad of a Freshman College Pitcher who earned a full ride to a small school, and he agreed that by College, the birth month matters very little. Each year, it matters less and less. Just gotta make it that far. |
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Baseball Success and Age Cut-Off Dates!
