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TODDS
153 Posts |
 Posted - 01/16/2011 : 12:21:32
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| Any opinions both good and bad on having composit bats rolled. Know very little about it and was wondering if this is something that some are doing and if so does it really help with hitting/distance. If so, are there local companies that offer this and again, if so any recommendations on who to use? |
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2011 : 14:34:30
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| I don't think it is legal?? It is very common in mens softball, but doesn't add the distance that "shaving" the bat does....But I don't think it is necessary for kids, and directional hitting is MUCH more difficult with the pitch coming in faster than 8 miles an hour. Also, I'm not 100% sure but I think there are legal consequences for doing so? Mine is a pitcher and these come-backers will end up killing someone, especially when these hot bats are made even hotter. I'm against all the new bat regulations, I don't really think anything is wrong with the bats we are using now. But to make these bats even hotter will only give a boy some false sense of confidence and risk injury to a pitcher. JMO but this should stay in mens softball(where EVERYBODY does it!!) |
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G-Man
326 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2011 : 15:35:12
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This is the last year of using any type of Hot bat. The new BBcor guidelines go in to effect for Usssa and other travel ball organizations for the 2012 season. Usssa has already released a statement about the new rule.
I had the opportunity the other night to see these new BBcor bats being used in a hitting tunnel. They hit like wood, sound like a ball coming off a metal pipe LOL and have a very small sweet spot. They hit just like wood. BBcor will change the power game of baseball as we know it now. |
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Gwinnett
791 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2011 : 16:25:05
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Just heard today from our coach that some tournaments are going to start checking bats for being rolled or shaved. If they find your bat to be one of these you can be fined up to $500, possible suspension for the player and team. You can't see rolled bats with the naked eye so they will have something to magnify to see and check for swirel marks.
In fact, there is talk of Triple Crown outlawing composite for this season. Nations and USSSA will be the season after.
The more you hit on these composite bats the hotter they get!!!! |
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sward
369 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2011 : 16:26:15
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Stay away from it. The new bat standards (2010 College, 2011 High School). In my opinion in 2011 or 2012 travelball orgs will move to bbcor. I heard these bats are "reinforce" and rolling wont work the same. Some kids will get discouraged by the lack of "pop" with these new bats. I think the current bats provide a false sense of confidence with rolling.
The new bats are going to be like using wood with the way the ball comes off the bats. Pitching is going to get better and Defensive teams are going to be stronger. I have not used the bats, but this is what I have heard from college coaches. |
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2011 : 18:32:37
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I haven't really noticed a distance difference with rolling a bat, but it just breaks the bat in faster. While I'm sure a lot of people say they notice distance what we have noticed with our softball bats is a larger sweet spot and more consistency, and they way they "check" the bats is with a compression tester. In Disney at the mens USSSA championship if a batted ball is either a HR or goes within a safety circle of the pitcher all bats were checked. A positive check was an immediate disqualification for if the same team was caught twice. But the machine was VERY VERY inconsistent and one bat was tested 3 times and passed twice and failed once.
Scott, are you going to be seeing these bats any time soon?? I would like to see a HS batting practice with these bats. If they are as toned down as I keep hearing bunting is gonna make a BIG comeback!!! |
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BTO
97 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2011 : 19:48:45
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| The bats the kids use today are crazy hot whether rolled or not. The adjustment to the BBCOR standard will SHOCK folks on how much these current bats give these kids today a false sense of hitting. The little 85 lb. 11 year old crushing balls 250ft. is not real. I hear from the college ranks that it is a "HUGE difference. Small ball, base running, defense and pitching. Those four things will be highlighted again in the youth ranks........ When I played years ago. The old Easton "Black Magic" was the best bat around. We thought we had died and gone to heaven when we put in our hands. The only thing special about that bat was it was weighted right and durable. The whole team would use the bat for an entire season. Times have changed. Most kids have 2 to 3 bats in their bags today. |
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WGT
24 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2011 : 21:49:16
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| SWARD, How will pitching and defense become better just because of a bat being less hot? When you play in a wood bat tourny are the scores lower because the pitching and defense are better or is it the bats don't have as much juice? I think the new bat standard will definitely change the way runs are produced but I don't beleive it will be responsible for making a kid a better pitcher or defensive player. If anything, a kid has to become better to pitch and defend against a hot bat. IMO. |
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Jacked-up
59 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2011 : 23:28:28
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| Rolling a bat only breaks it in quicker...The ONLY way to determine if it has been shaved or rolled, as earlier stated is by a compression test and the those machines are not cheap. Based on all the discussions on profiteering by the TDs, it would not make sense to purchase the machines. In fastpitch, ONLY the 18U GOLD (elite of the elite) do compression tests for the National tournament ONLY. If composite bats are only good for 1 more year, no need to test bats...Now, as Americans, someone or bat company will come up with a bat that meets the standards and still be hot. First company to do so will make a killiing... |
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loveforthegame25
448 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2011 : 18:15:48
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| OK, someone define what this means |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2011 : 21:20:55
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My understanding of what bat rolling is, is basically stretching the metal out to make it thinner, essentially giving it more trampoline effect. From what I have heard, the BBCOR bats will be pre broken in. They will not get hotter as they are used.
My opinion about bat rolling? Don't do it. It is possibly illegal and, in my mind, unethical. Go with what you got and follow the rules. |
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Gwinnett
791 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2011 : 22:47:37
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Jacked, our coach just went to a seminar for coachs and tournament directors on how to identify the markings of a bat that has been rolled, shaved or siliconed. In this seminar they showed how each has to be done. Showing the tell tale signs of any one of those, and yes they can be identified. The new way to identify a rolled bat is with magnified goggles which are cheap. All the participants watched how a bat was rolled then they showed them how to identify swirl marks on the bat with the goggles. When the bat is shaved usually the end cap has been tampered with to open it up. For siliconing the bat they were shown where to look for the drill marks. This seminar was primarily for coachs who have suspision of the other team maybe using a altered bat. They to, can take a closer look at any bat of the opposing team if they want. Don't be surprised if you see some coachs with wierd goggles looking at bats.........
I know they use compression testing for mens softball and yes it is inaccurate.
You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out a bat has been tampered with. So, a compression test is not the "ONLY" way to figure out if someone has done any of these tampering methods.
Love, so all this means you could be fined, possibly suspended if you decide to alter your composite bat and they catch you because your son hit a ball 260-300' and he's 11..lol
Will they really check? I don't no... My son hits the ball plenty hard enough without composite. I will say he does like his composite bat a lot. You can get the same affect by hitting on your bat 1000's of times before the season without any markings except from a ball. Right now he's swinging his bat about 400-500 times a week. |
Edited by - Gwinnett on 01/18/2011 08:55:54 |
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moccs
349 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2011 : 22:55:26
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BTW- Under the new USSSA rules -- any player caught using a bat that has been rolled will result in a one year suspension for the entire team and coaches !!
This is according to a meeting that I attended with Matt Trebechon and Bubba Smith on Saturday. |
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baseballnutz
427 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2011 : 08:47:59
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| My understanding is bat rolling is used to break in composite bats faster and evenly vs having to hit it 200-400 times to achieve the same goal. |
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Gwinnett
791 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2011 : 09:51:05
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Bottom line is if you get CAUGHT you will face severe consequences, not only for the player but the team as well.
So I guess if your a coach you will want to check your players bats and inform them if they have done anything to there composite bats the team could suffer BIG time!
I'm very sure there will be lots of coachs checking or policing there opponents.
That would SUCK if you were on some team and 1 player ruined it for everyone else. Maybe that players parents could reinburse the rest of the team for there losses! |
Edited by - Gwinnett on 01/18/2011 13:36:40 |
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2011 : 09:51:32
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| Gwinnett, I have heard the goggles are VERY VERY inaccurate. More so than the compression tester, there are over 1500 pending reviews of people who were suspended because a "bat expert" looked at a bat thru some funky goggles. Most of these cases are never enforced because a company such as USSSA can't prove that the player had the bat altered(There are TONS of guys who have been caught plead ignorance OVER AND OVER again)...Rolling has a minimal effect on aluminum bats anyway so I'm not sure how many cases there are regarding aluminum. The guys who don't do this in their garage know what they are doing, and they get more and more creative by the day. The bat manufacturers do VERY little to help the situation, you can buy an end-cap from them for under 10$ These caps can be boiled off, pried off, and sometimes just popped off. Also, regarding the bat manufacturers they will allow a bat that has been rolled/shaved to be returned, not exactly punishment for altering bats. As long as there are people who are smart enough to alter a bat it will continue to happen. There are already some new forums popping up on how to alter the BBCOR bats. I don't even think going to wood would matter, those are regularly cheated up too.. |
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sward
369 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2011 : 10:25:07
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Pitchers become better bc the bats have less juice. Mis-hits don't travel as far. Some balls that get through the infield or past an outfielder, won't. Small-ball and the running game will be more important...this aspect will require defenses to execute more. Sorry, I didn't mean it literally. I think we are on the same page though.
quote:
Originally posted by WGT
SWARD, How will pitching and defense become better just because of a bat being less hot? When you play in a wood bat tourny are the scores lower because the pitching and defense are better or is it the bats don't have as much juice? I think the new bat standard will definitely change the way runs are produced but I don't beleive it will be responsible for making a kid a better pitcher or defensive player. If anything, a kid has to become better to pitch and defend against a hot bat. IMO.
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HITANDRUN
436 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2011 : 10:27:51
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I would be pretty upset if my son bought a used bat from a used sporting goods store or off the internet and I found out it had been tampered with and he was suspended.
I would if the store would be liable or trained to see if a bat was tampered with.
Maybe wood bats will make a comeback. Are wooden bats outlawed in any tournaments? Someone said Cooperstown wont let you use wood is this true? |
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TAZ980002
831 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2011 : 10:40:25
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I just haven't noticed a big difference between my son's aluminum and composite bats. I think it's more important for him to put a good swing on the ball rather than worry about what he is hitting with.
I do like the sound of the composite bat better than the aluminum though. |
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moccs
349 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2011 : 10:59:58
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| That is the reason but there are two problems. Number one it is illegal and number two is once it is rolled the rating is generally higher than approved. Not as much of a problem with ratings this season but definitely beginning August 2011 for the 2012 season. |
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patent pending
66 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2011 : 11:03:23
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| Look up bat rolling on you tube and you can see the process for anyone un sure about rolling. Im not sure why speedeing up a bats break in process is illegal. Now bat shaving is cheating and should be illegal. I also read USSSA is currently developing low cost compression testers . To be sold to Tournament directors for less than $ 500. All TDs will have to have them on site in 2012 at usssa events. |
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Gwinnett
791 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2011 : 15:06:20
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I never seen any of these goggles or compression testers or have I ever seen any umpire, tournament director, other coach examine any bat on any team we've ever been on. However, I bet there will be some coachs getting a little upset when there team is getting stomped that will use this as an excuse to look at bats....LOL
Truth be told we were thinking about having our bat rolled just to break it in. I mentioned it to my coach and he told me the story I posted.
Honestly, you have to be a great hitter to begin with, to get the full affect of altering a composite bat. You could be a average hitter and do all three things to your bat and not tell a difference. That's why they are out lawing the bats, because when in the hands of a great hitter they can be very dangerous or lethal to a pitcher.
Kind of like men who think buying very expensive custom made golf clubs will make them shoot better on the golf course...lol You know the ones--and they still can't break 80 or 90 or even 100......lol |
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22202
263 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2011 : 15:32:29
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| Can someone explain the process of "rolling" a bat? |
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2011 : 15:52:50
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| The problem with the "low cost compression tester" is they aren't accurate....Last year at Disney there were 4 instances where BRAND NEW STILL IN WRAPPER bats failed compression tests, and several guys got away with having shaved bats, they PASSED the compression tests. Softballfans.com has hundreds of posts about it. I personally don't think there is anything wrong with the bats, millions of kids play baseball across the country with minimal injuries, but apparently the rest of the world disagrees. Balls can be cheated too, but I think this is only in softball, has anyone heard of people using unofficial balls in youth baseball?? |
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RACGOFAR
208 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2011 : 09:06:48
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Composite bats, over time, become "softer" creating more trampoline effect of the ball off the bat. Rolling a bat simply means putting the head of the bat under pressure to break in the carbon fibers and soften the bat. The machines that do this are basically vices made with roller pins. You place the bat in it, torque it down between the rollers and you crank a handle and the bat is "rolled" under pressure.
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bat rolling
