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rippit
667 Posts |
 Posted - 01/10/2011 : 20:25:48
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| Is putting a gun on a pitcher going to make him over throw and hurt his arm? If he's already throwing accurately, won't he naturally throw as hard as he can without some guy having to put a number on it? |
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Cardsfan17
24 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2011 : 22:33:49
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| Keep in mind this is the 10u/11u perspective from the parent of a pitcher. I have a gun, but if Im being honest it was a bad decision to buy one. My kid has good control and velocity, but I just had to know how fast he was throwing. All it did was make it over throw his pitches and look terrible doing it. I put it away and he threw great again. Don't get me wrong, there is a place for using the gun. Checking the speed difference between the fastball and the change can be useful. If you can clock him w/o him knowing it might also help. My advise, for what it's worth, is forget the gun. If your kid is throwing accurately and can change speeds and location, the gun won't matter. Good luck this season. |
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Mike Corbin
523 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2011 : 23:32:03
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| We usually use one, but we don't tell the kids the speeds. We use it primarily to see where the kids are compared to earlier in the year and make sure we know of any sudden drops in speed. |
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Alter-Ego
802 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2011 : 23:54:12
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I have seen many occurrences of kids trying to overthrow when they see that a radar gun is out. The only benefit I can see is in comparing FB speed with the off-speed pitches. It's good to see what reduction in speed they are throwing, especially with a change-up. Many times I have just called out the differential and not the actual speeds.
I saw several occurrences of pitchers, during the Perfect Game events, trying to out throw other pitchers on the team. |
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beanball
222 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2011 : 07:15:04
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| If a kid see the gun he will naturally over throw, its human nature. The gun is good about once or twice a year -- and just for a handful of pitches. To put a gun on a kid every time out is a waste of time. First of all it really doesn't matter until he's 15 or 16. If anyone tells you their 12 or 13U player is throwing 75 or 80 just nod and move on. If you want to see 80 go look at the 15's and tell me your 12U is throwing that hard. |
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rippit
667 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2011 : 08:32:30
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"difference between the fastball and the change"...
That's valid and something that would have never occurred to me to check. Players need to trust their pitches and know they are working more than just the balls and strikes factor. I guess the batter taking a hack and getting fooled must be such a rush!! |
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12uCoach
357 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2011 : 10:39:39
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| In our experience, we would use the gun and tell the player to just throw. Then we tell them to throw at 85% (don't care if they know what we mean, just repeat the statement) and find that a majority of the players threw just as fast, or faster and with greater accuracy when they had to concentrate on the throw. That is the speed we used in January as the base speed to improve upon for June |
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baseball1
56 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2011 : 11:09:55
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| Difference in speed from fast ball to changeup , given that both are delivered with the same arm motion-speed ,is at every level of the game a huge advantage to the pitcher. Glavine and Pedro Martinez were masters at it....use the gun to support the development of this .. |
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sgates
48 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2011 : 11:10:44
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Ive used one on a regular basis with my team the last several years(now 11u)......my reasoning and all my kids know it, I dont care "how fast they are throwing" as long as its relative to their changeup.....So I actually pay more attention to their changeup speed then their fastball which seems to work well with them over throwing, etc....If Ive got a kid "only throwing 55mph", which may be the 4th "fastest" on my team, but as long as his changeup is 45-48mph, thats what Im concerned with and stress to them. Most of my long time players now dont even ask what their fastball is, they ask what their changeup is first!
Good Luck
Steve Gates
EC Stars 11u |
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Jacked-up
59 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2011 : 13:38:51
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| I have a gun. What amazes me is how many parents want to argue w/ me on the accuracy WHEN it is their kid throwing. I was told I had weak batteries, wrong angle, etc....My response is that the gun don't lie and has no reason to either....Once you use one for a while you can determine a kid's speed w/in 1-2 MPH. |
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2011 : 17:15:42
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| I think many different guns give many different readings...Last year with Signature Park, Coach Renz had a gun that was consistently 4-5MPH faster than the Bushnell I have. I did a little research and different technology gives different readings, pretty simple to understand I guess....We use the gun often, a couple of our boys do throw harder or "overthrow" but the accuracy is usually MUCH worse...Also, we gun after a couple innings to make sure the boys are still pretty close to where they started at...I dunno who else does this but after 60 pitches most boys have a drop off in speed and you can really tell their mechanics are suffering. Not exactly rocket science but we use the gun for that as well. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2011 : 20:55:01
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If you want real accuracy, use a Jugs or Stalker. The Bushnell will, in my experience, read 4-5 mph below a Jugs or Stalker. One of the greatest lessons the kids can learn, is that if you over throw, velocity will suffer. The best velocity comes from good mechanics with the whole body working together. The sooner they understand this, the better off they will be. There will be no way to escape the radar gun once they get to HS and aspire to get to the next level.
BTW, I have a Jugs gun in excellent condition that I used occasionally and really don't use any more. If anyone is interested in buying it from me, PM me. |
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rippit
667 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2011 : 21:03:26
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| spartan - how old were these guys that Renz was putting a gun on? |
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coachtony
236 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2011 : 22:03:50
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We played a team last year that had a parent with a gun sitting right behind the fence behind the umpire. The parent never used the gun for his teams pitchers but always did for ours. Wonder why? ;)
--T
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2011 : 11:28:40
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| Rippit, I only used it when our 10U team was pitching but Kevin told me that it his gun reads faster than a Bushnell. That is really all he said but I know for a fact and I think Jacked-Up told me the same thing that over 75? the Bushnell isn't as accurate either way.?.? I'm not really sure what MPH it was but it was over what any of our boys could throw. |
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2011 : 13:32:58
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| I have a radar gun that's the size of a smart phone and looks like one too! Everyone thinks I'm reading a text message, or checking my e-mail. Its called "Pocket Radar". Its plus/minus 1 mph from all the other guns I've compared it to. It cost $200 including shipping. |
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2011 : 14:58:17
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| You showed me that thing at the Collins Hill tryout and I couldn't believe it!! I went home and found them online, they are awesome and if I didn't already have one I would get one. Have you compared it to a Stalker gun?? I'm thinking about buying one with 2 other parents....No real reason but we can get a great deal on it. |
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2011 : 17:26:58
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I'm not sure what guns I've matched my pocket radar up with, but there's been at least 3 different makes/models. I think the tan colored one was a Bushnell, but the gray and black ones I don't know what they were.
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RACGOFAR
208 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2011 : 21:03:36
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| There is a radar gun app for IPhone. $10 or less. Coach friend has it and says it works for all purposes noted here. |
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2011 : 22:31:38
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Geez, I have it all backwards. I have a $10 cell phone and a $200 radar gun when I should have a $200 cell phone with a $10 app 
I wonder if there's an iphone app for shoveling snow? My son saw me shoveling snow yesterday and asked me what I was doing...he had never seen anyone shovel snow before! I told him when I was his age, I used to shovel driveways for cash. He said "if you wanted cash, why didn't you just ask your parents?"
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Edited by - bmoser on 01/12/2011 23:12:20 |
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coachdan06
433 Posts |
Posted - 01/12/2011 : 22:51:48
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[quote]Originally posted by Jacked-up
I have a gun. What amazes me is how many parents want to argue w/ me on the accuracy WHEN it is their kid throwing. I was told I had weak batteries, wrong angle, etc
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rippit
667 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2011 : 08:42:00
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Good one moser!! I need a new phone - guess I'll get the iphone and a $10 radar gun app. I imagine the looks on some parent's faces will be priceless!! That will make it so worthwhile!!
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RACGOFAR
208 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2011 : 09:16:15
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| Upon further investigation, I found a $6 sports radar app for blackberry. Will purchase and post results. These apps aren't really radar at all. Uses complex algorithms and sound to calculate speed based on what you want to track. |
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2011 : 10:33:33
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| I looked at the reviews of the iPhone app...and apparently they are pretty accurate....Supposedly within a couple MPH |
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rippit
667 Posts |
Posted - 01/13/2011 : 11:19:45
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| @racgofar - where did you get that? |
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sward
369 Posts |
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Radar guns
