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bmoser
1633 Posts |
 Posted - 11/30/2010 : 07:24:02
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| When are they due out? Seems like it was this time last year they were posted. |
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gausssa
209 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2010 : 00:41:05
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| They will be out in January...must wait till most everybody get's registered and see who's going to try to "fly under the radar"!!!! LOL |
Edited by - gausssa on 12/02/2010 08:30:00 |
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2010 : 12:46:59
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| The sandbagging is ridiculous.......certain teams boast about winning 14 tourneys playing AAA when they should be major...or AA when they should be AAA...Why doesn't USSSA actually crack down on this?? |
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gausssa
209 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2010 : 14:36:02
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| Reclassification is one of the most difficult processes we do every year for several different reason's. Do we get it right everytime on every team in every age group? No, that's why i look at teams weekley and listen to calls/emails in order to do some research on what a team or teams are doing. With the way teams roster's change from year to year or even month to month it's hard to know who is flying under the radar or sand bagging. That's why we take another strong look at it in late April first of May. Another one of the improvements Georgia USSSA hopes to make this year....Thanks for your thoughts. |
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crackedbats
160 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2010 : 15:03:02
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| my son is in 11AA. They number of teams there is quite numerous. Especially when compared to AAA or Major. Some should move up because some of the teams have no business at that level. |
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G-Man
326 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2010 : 17:48:12
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I agree with you. However unlike Florida in Georgia it doesnt seem like they want to reclassify teams at any time. Im not going to beat this horse again but IMHO in the long run its going to hurt Ga usssa. I have already seen the damage. Where tournaments were scheduled and lower division teams either said they would not come or dropped out of tournaments because sandbagging team/teams were entering. I have even been told a story by another coach who said a team was told they couldnt come to a tournament because other teams said they would drop out if this happened. Oh before Bubba ask no this does not affect my son.
quote:
Originally posted by crackedbats
my son is in 11AA. They number of teams there is quite numerous. Especially when compared to AAA or Major. Some should move up because some of the teams have no business at that level.
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2010 : 19:29:05
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I agree 1000% cracked bats.....I remember when we played AA at the 9U age group....There were a few teams that won every single game but only played AA teams....
Thanks Bubba, I know you are working hard...I just wish there was a way to keep it from happening....Maybe a penalty of some sort for the AAA teams who pick up major caliber players(2-3-4 of them) and continue to register for AAA tourneys....I understand this can more than likely never happen but I would sure like to see it!!! |
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itsaboutbb
164 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2010 : 10:43:23
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quote:
Originally posted by G-Man
I agree with you. However unlike Florida in Georgia it doesnt seem like they want to reclassify teams at any time. Im not going to beat this horse again but IMHO in the long run its going to hurt Ga usssa. I have already seen the damage. Where tournaments were scheduled and lower division teams either said they would not come or dropped out of tournaments because sandbagging team/teams were entering. I have even been told a story by another coach who said a team was told they couldnt come to a tournament because other teams said they would drop out if this happened. Oh before Bubba ask no this does not affect my son.
quote:
Originally posted by crackedbats
my son is in 11AA. They number of teams there is quite numerous. Especially when compared to AAA or Major. Some should move up because some of the teams have no business at that level.
Not only does it effect Utrip it affects all the other tourneys because people know who they are and wont enter. I see Forsyth County Slugfest having less teams this year because of only having 2 classes. But you never know. |
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RACGOFAR
208 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2010 : 15:46:38
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The slugfest will have more teams this year. Last year we wanted to play up in 10u Major and at the last minute a Major team dropped out, leaving the other 3 teams to scramble for a place to play. We wound up in a decent tourney, but not our first choice. The other Major teams had to travel out of state to play that weekend.
Having two classifications will work out well and teams can choose which one they want to be in (right?). A few teams will sandbag and play in the lower when they should be in the higher, but its up to the TD to catch those guys and put teams where they should be.
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2010 : 16:23:09
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Everyone knows I am not a fan of more than 2 classifacations as I believe it even further waters down the talent pool in travel ball(way way way too many teams)....But I completely agree, the Slugfest is supposed to be a charity event and they are setting up this tournament to have less teams??
This will never get fixed, no matter how hard Bubba tries....The only way to truly fix sandbagging teams is to have one class and make everyone play major, and we both know that is a HORRIBLE IDEA...both for major and AAA teams....It happens in every state, some coaches feel the need to win these trophies.....I would rather win 1 major tourney with our team than 16 AAA tourneys like a couple teams did last year!! |
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coach0512
123 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2010 : 21:49:18
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And Spartan, those teams who won the 16 trophies walk around calling themselves a top notch team! I won't mention names but one of the teams mentioned in another thread as being one of the top 10 teams around won their "World Series" title by playing mediocre AA teams that were beat by almost everyone else who played them also.
Sandbagging has GOT to be Bubbas hardest task each year. There's just no great answer. |
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2010 : 11:59:07
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The only answer IMO is a penalty, but I think it would be impossible to prove that a coach intended to sandbag to "win".....I think the best answer is move teams up when they start winning, take a sample of 10 games and if a team wins 7-8 move them up, they could always be moved back down....I said it on another thread but some teams are consider a "top" team because they have a stellar win-loss record not because they are a top team!!
I agree that Bubba has his hands full!!! |
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oldschooldad
203 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2010 : 13:09:27
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| Very interesting topic. A lot of opinions about who is doing it and what can and should be done about it. It seems to me however, that many of the folks calling out sandbagging teams are also the same one that have no problem with teams "borrowing" players for big tourneys. JMHO but I believe you should play with your core group of kids and don't pick up kids from other teams. Play the best competition you can. If you are winning games and tournaments at one level, try stepping up a level. It will make the entire team better players in the long run. |
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2010 : 14:29:06
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| Great point, tough to just judge but I have no problems with teams borrowing players to play in major events....I have let mine play in tourneys that didn't matter with other teams before so I guess I am guilty of that(late May or June)...But if a team wants to pick a player up for an NIT or Disney or something IMO that is a little different than picking a kid that throws 70 up to go win a AA tourney....Maybe nobody else sees a difference but it is hard to compete at the major level for many teams without picking an arm up for tourneys lasting longer than a weekend. San Diego Stars, Texas Bandito's and Team Florida(many many others) all picked up players for big events last year, and I don't think any of those teams wouldn't be regarded as a top 10 team, so those pick-ups were battling teams with other "hired guns" as well. Also, I don't think more than 10% of pick-ups occur before May anyways, after that some teams stop playing and many kids have to pick up with other teams to continue playing....Our team last season stopped in the beginning of May, so for us to continue playing we had to find another team. |
Edited by - Spartan4 on 12/04/2010 16:33:05 |
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seminole tony
147 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2010 : 16:36:59
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How about making it so a team that wins 4-5 tournaments in their class automatically moves up. Also after that team wins two tournaments the roster is frozen and any team member that wants to play ball for another team can only move down(major to AAA or below). No releases from coaches or USSSA to play elsewhere. You play down or sit out. No jumping state lines to play on another team if you are on frozen squad. Violate this rule and the team sits out all end of season tournaments and voids all wins with the illegal child.
This would thin out the hired guns jumping from team to team, tournament to tournament, state to state.
Make a combined data base of USSSA, Triple crown, and all other sanctioning baseball org. This would be really nice to be able to follow players everywhere. Each child would be registered with their birth certificate and would eliminate having to carry it to every tournament. Update a photo every year and questions about age and team affiliation would be eliminated. End of season invitationals and Elites where a team can pick up 3-4 more players would be the only time a child could switch teams and then it would be for only one team till the season end date. That child would then become a member of that team and could not go back till after the season. This would stop teams from helping other teams into special tournaments.
Make the season August to July. After that each child is a free agent. Sign with a team and your locked up. PERIOD. Sounds real extreme but we've all been to tournaments with discrepancies about a child's age or team.
It'll make you think alot longer about jumping from team to team each year. And...I do understand about team chemistry, this will just make you do your homework before moving.
Those teams out there that are sandbagging just to collect points to be able to say "THE #1 RANKED TEAM IN STATE IN USSSA" just don't matter. Kids and parents should be checking other resources other then "that" teams web site anyway.
I'm a firm believer in developing your team and trying to win it all. Not winning small local tournaments then picking up 3-4 "STUDS" to win Elites. If you can't do it with your team you ain't the best.
This would effect fall ball for teams that need players for fill ins for football players. May be a high price for correcting problems????? |
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2010 : 00:06:07
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| I think that is an extreme......Like I said earlier, there hasn't been a team win the elite 32 without a pickup in quite some time and I don't know when it will happen again....Even the best teams around still pick an arm up...And I don't think TC, USSSA, Nations, or other sanctioning body will ever combine for the sake of freezing rosters to make things "fair"...There is just too much money involved, when a kid can't play with other teams during USSSA play he simply finds a team that isn't playing USSSA. Other sanctioning bodies know this and they would never risk making less money IMO....The money these guys are making is #1 for most TDs and ALL sanctioning bodies.... |
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gausssa
209 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2010 : 21:44:04
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Spartan4, To say i have my hands full when tryin to monitor these teams is so true. The problem guys, is there is "no perfect system" to use when doing re-clssification. It's % of numbers of teams,end of previous year ranking's (points and power ranking), returning players,added players & class,dropped players & class, and good ole fashion "human elimate" and i could go on and on...I feel for the most part we get it right but do we miss on some? Sure!!! I can promise those phone calls usually don't go very well. Again, the system isn't perfect and never will be. I will keep plugging along.
Thanks guys. |
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Alter-Ego
802 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2010 : 10:31:25
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This all becomes less important when you get out of the younger age groups. At around 13U and above, teams know enough about each other, and who is playing where, to know which tournaments they want to play in. Teams look at the TC list of committed teams and decide whether they think they can compete with that group or not. If not, they play somewhere else.
The stronger teams start playing up an age group to continue to challenge themselves. They are no more interested in beating up on teams than the lower level teams are to get beat up on.
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G-Man
326 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2010 : 03:31:12
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Great point Tony!!! In Florida they started moving teams up right after their 3rd tournament win. The asst state director there who ran tournaments knew these teams and told them. You win or go to the championship you get moved up to the next division right after the tournament is over. This is not a hard example to follow.
quote:
Originally posted by seminole tony
How about making it so a team that wins 4-5 tournaments in their class automatically moves up. Also after that team wins two tournaments the roster is frozen and any team member that wants to play ball for another team can only move down(major to AAA or below). No releases from coaches or USSSA to play elsewhere. You play down or sit out. No jumping state lines to play on another team if you are on frozen squad. Violate this rule and the team sits out all end of season tournaments and voids all wins with the illegal child.
This would thin out the hired guns jumping from team to team, tournament to tournament, state to state.
Make a combined data base of USSSA, Triple crown, and all other sanctioning baseball org. This would be really nice to be able to follow players everywhere. Each child would be registered with their birth certificate and would eliminate having to carry it to every tournament. Update a photo every year and questions about age and team affiliation would be eliminated. End of season invitationals and Elites where a team can pick up 3-4 more players would be the only time a child could switch teams and then it would be for only one team till the season end date. That child would then become a member of that team and could not go back till after the season. This would stop teams from helping other teams into special tournaments.
Make the season August to July. After that each child is a free agent. Sign with a team and your locked up. PERIOD. Sounds real extreme but we've all been to tournaments with discrepancies about a child's age or team.
It'll make you think alot longer about jumping from team to team each year. And...I do understand about team chemistry, this will just make you do your homework before moving.
Those teams out there that are sandbagging just to collect points to be able to say "THE #1 RANKED TEAM IN STATE IN USSSA" just don't matter. Kids and parents should be checking other resources other then "that" teams web site anyway.
I'm a firm believer in developing your team and trying to win it all. Not winning small local tournaments then picking up 3-4 "STUDS" to win Elites. If you can't do it with your team you ain't the best.
This would effect fall ball for teams that need players for fill ins for football players. May be a high price for correcting problems?????
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USSSA Re-classifications
