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LLH
98 Posts |
 Posted - 09/08/2010 : 09:55:46
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| Just wondering what everyone's thoughts are on this. Local HS Coach is teaching lessons at a local facility. My son is in 8th grade and looking for a new pitching instructor. Do you think it would help or hurt to go to person who will be his coach next year? Will he benefit more by learning what the coach is going to want or will it hurt by allowing the coach to form an early opinion. He will not light up the gun, has not broke 70 yet, 68-69 and looks better against a batter than without. |
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CoachDad
52 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2010 : 11:37:39
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| I wouldn't go to my local HS coach for anything bur fundraising advice. However, your local HS coach may know something about baseball. |
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Taterhater
66 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2010 : 14:23:06
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| It is a conflict of interest for a high school coach to charge anyone who is in his feeder system for lessons. |
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Gold Glove
129 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2010 : 16:06:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Taterhater
It is a conflict of interest for a high school coach to charge anyone who is in his feeder system for lessons.
Happens much more than you realize. |
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ec1
40 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2010 : 20:45:21
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A quality Head Coach in High School would not give paid lessons to anyone in his school district---would be a huge conflict of interest. If they do, beware. quote:
Originally posted by Gold Glove
quote:
Originally posted by Taterhater
It is a conflict of interest for a high school coach to charge anyone who is in his feeder system for lessons.
Happens much more than you realize.
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sward
369 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2010 : 23:59:12
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| You could just visit one the HS Baseball Camps and learn this information. I don't think it is a conflict until 9th grade. There just needs to be an understanding up front. |
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in_the_know
985 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2010 : 01:34:46
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I would steer very clear of paying him for lessons. If you don't end up liking what you're paying for, what will you do? Stop going and risk burning a bridge which may affect your kid's chance of making the team or continue to pay for something that may not be working for you?
If your thoughts are that you can "buy" your way onto the team by paying for these lessons (and I'm not saying that it is, but it's certainly not a stretch for some) then you're really talking about a completely different agenda than getting your son some lessons.
There are enough excellent options around metro Atlanta that you'd be better served to utilize. Consider that if/when your son makes his HS team and goes through a rough patch. Wouldn't it be nice to have a professional to work with who is already familiar with your son and who your son is comfortable with to provide a different perspective than he's getting from the HS coaching staff?
Just food for thought. |
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Alter-Ego
802 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2010 : 08:35:29
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I don't think it is a conflict of interest until he starts charging kid on his HS teams.
The biggest question to ask is "Is he a good pitching instructor?"
If so, for a kid that may need to be seen a lot more than just the couple of days of tryouts to be appreciated, it might be very beneficial. |
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behindtheball
18 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2010 : 09:36:20
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Doesn't matter if he's the second coming of Johnny Sain, the HS coach shouldn't be charging kids who'll be coming into his program. It creates a minefield of potential conflicts. The same conflicts arise when HS or travel team coaches charge players for hitting/pitching/condition workouts. Do those paying gain an advantage? Are they seen in a better light as they get more face time with the coach? If you don't buy in are you viewed as less of a team player?
Point is, doon't get in a situation where these questions need to be asked. |
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Alter-Ego
802 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2010 : 14:15:05
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It starts to get to the topic of whether a HS coach should be able to do lessons or not, then. Otherwise they have to interview all potential clients to see where they live.
What if you have been going to an instructor for a while and they suddenly get hired as a coach at the HS you are, or will be, attending? Do you quit going to him?
Does it matter whether a coach is a head coach, a paid assistant, or a voluntary coach?
I just think this is a situational thing and has to be looked at on a "Case by Case" basis.
None of them are getting rich coaching in HS, so it makes sense that some may try to supplement their income with giving lessons on a subject they should be qualified for.
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Taterhater
66 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2010 : 21:40:00
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Before I comment any further, let me say that I was a high school head baseball coach in Georgia for eight years. I know the rules. Very well. With that in mind, it is a 100% conflict of interest for a coach to charge anybody in his feeder system for lessons. You don't have to believe me. Call the GHSA and ask. I already know the answer you will get.
Secondly, even though it is a conflict, it happens ALL the time...not "more than I realize". I know it goes on. Coaches also give lessons in their school's indoor facilities, outdoor cages, or on their high school fields. All of these are conflicts of interest and will get a coach in trouble.
It is not a situational thing. It is not "case by case". It's clearly against the rules.
In regards to baseball camps, if any of the school's facilities or property is used, the school must be compensated. This doesn't happen much. I know of coaches who pocket the money and do not put any of it back in the program. I'm not saying that they are doing wrong on purpose, I truly believe most of them don't even know they are doing wrong.
However, this isn't an issue where it's a matter of perspective or opinion. The expectations from the GHSA are clear. Call them and ask. |
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Taterhater
66 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2010 : 21:44:24
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One more thing...a high school coach also opens himself up to the "undue influence" rule if he gives lessons to a kid who then transfers to his school. The word "minefield" was used before and this is an accurate description of what happens when a high school coach is paid for lessons.
Again, it happens all the time, but it is still against the rules. Like I said, this isn't a matter of opinion. Even so, there are a bunch of coaches that do it. So, if you want to take your son to a high school coach for lessons, do so with your eyes wide open and know the potential problems on both ends. All in all, it is a bad idea. |
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Alter-Ego
802 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2010 : 06:13:08
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Excellent input Tater. That gives a really good perspective of the "rules" side of it and makes the decision point a lot clearer. When GHSA rules violations come into play, the answers are much less subjective. Thanks for bringing up this side of it.
So LLH the answer to your original question is "Don't do it. Find them a good instructor that is not involved with the school system." |
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Gold Glove
129 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2010 : 15:27:04
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Tater,
Is there a difference between getting paid to coach, whether it is a feeder team or summer high school; or getting paid for lessons in the eyes of GHSA? |
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Taterhater
66 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2010 : 22:35:36
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Good question. I assume that you are speaking of a high school team that stays together for the summer but is coached by someone other than their school coach.
Technically, summer high school ball is different. The reason for this is because summer baseball can not be mandatory. Now, I know coaches that totally ignore this rule and "make" kids play summer baseball for their school team. But, in reality, this is illegal.
If the coach is paid by the school system, or is listed as being officially a part of the team (i.e., a "volunteer" community coach), he is subject to all of the same GHSA rules as a "regular" coach. If he isn't an official part of the team, then he's not subject to those rules.
I hope I answered your question. |
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GoGators
21 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2010 : 10:40:19
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| I agree that high school coaches should not give lessons. It does conflict interest. They usually do not know what the travel ball coaches know in the first place. High school coaches are the Mark Richts of baseball and Travel coaches are Urban Meyers. |
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CoachDad
52 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2010 : 16:23:32
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| You mean high school coaches can't teach kids how to tackle and travel ball coaches can't teach kids how to snap the ball? |
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GoGators
21 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2010 : 18:09:59
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| haha Thats close to what i mean. Maybe both teams can get it together for a good 1 later this fall. |
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gasbag
281 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2010 : 18:10:25
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| Taterhater.....didn't you tell me you had a good recipe for gator that tastes like chicken ? Please forward so we all can enjoy some this year ! |
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coachdan06
433 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2010 : 01:15:36
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Definite conflict of interest not only a high school coach but also if a travel coach
Very awkward position to put oneself in should they respect their image and reputation
There are some local travel programs current who make MANDATORY that a certain amount of money must be paid to the coach for coaching and this is flat out extortion without the criminal element
You know the story , pay me money for lessons even if you take instruction from others cuz Ill show you the "right way to do it" if you dont then you wont play as much as the kids who do come to my lessons.
Huge ethical issue and this wont be the only one with that coach & team , politics are sure to follow you can bank on it .
From these teams , Run dont walk !! |
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Gold Glove
129 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2010 : 08:51:52
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CoachDan,
Are you saying do not play for a team with a paid coach? No opinion from me one way or the other as I have seen both good and bad. But all I hear these days are "get rid of the dads, we want paid coaches!" |
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Alter-Ego
802 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2010 : 09:49:56
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| I think Coach Dan is talking about the additional instruction, outside of the team practices, that some paid coaches require. I think this is a conflict of interest if you are already being paid by the families to coach the team. |
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coachdan06
433 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2010 : 15:18:52
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glove: paid coaches are great if theyre worth the money and are committed
to force additional money be paid to that coach or his organization for lessons by that coach , that is a bad can of worms to open
quote:
Originally posted by Gold Glove
CoachDan,
Are you saying do not play for a team with a paid coach? No opinion from me one way or the other as I have seen both good and bad. But all I hear these days are "get rid of the dads, we want paid coaches!"
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Would you go to HS Coach for lessons?
