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Blue
7 Posts |
 Posted - 08/24/2010 : 14:00:11
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I'd love to hear opinions on this. What age does a kid "have to" play travel baseball? I've heard people say if a kid stays in rec ball "too long" they won't be looked at for travel ball, no matter how good they are. I've heard other people say if you start them too young they burn out or worse, get injured. I've seen posts from teams looking for players but requiring "2 years travel ball experience". Some parents are simply horrified at the idea of their boy playing rec ball beyond the age of 9.
Is it awful to let a kid play rec ball until they are 12 or 13? Will they be overlooked simply because they stayed in rec ball? |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2010 : 15:10:18
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| My opinion is if they are good enough, it doesn't matter until they are in HS. My son is 17, so it was a few years ago, but he played rec ball until he was 11. At 12 he started travel ball and he has been fine. Playing on one of the top travel teams out there and has been a starting varsity pitcher since his freshman year in a 5A school. On the other hand, I have seen kids who started playing travel at around 9 who are no longer in the game. It all depends on your son and how he develops. There is no reason, with good coaching, he can't develop just as much playing rec as travel. You will definetely hear other opinions. Bottom line is, do what you feel is best for your son. Don't worry about what everyone else is doing and if your son has the talent, it won't matter when he switches over from rec to travel. JMHO. |
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Foul Territory
32 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2010 : 15:22:12
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To the statement of staying in rec ball "too long" will result in not being looked at for travel ball I say: NOT TRUE. Coaches and managers like to know the history of a player and probably would prefer to have a player will lots of high level experience, however it's not necessary. I think one of the biggest gains a child gets from travel ball is comfort playing in intense situations and environments.
A "rec ball" player will however probably need continued personal instruction at an earlier age than a "travel ball" player.
It's actually a route I'd recommend to a family that struggles to make the time commitment travel programs require.
Example: Two players play 8U All-Stars together. Player A decides to jump in feet first the following season and play travel ball. Family makes a $1700 commitment to be on the team and now travels 15 miles further than before to weekly team practices. And is now committed to 16 weekends of baseball in and around metro as well as a postseason weeklong trip to Florida.
Player B decides to return to the recreation program for another season. Family decides to get twice a week hitting instruction at local facility at $40 a session starting in January. That's five months of instruction/twice a week at the same cost Player A's family paid just to say they're on the team.
I'd argue that if Player B was not a better hitter than Player A before their 9U season, he will be by the end of the summer.
So my final thought is travel ball is not necessary until 11U and maybe 12U depending on the area and recreation program you're a part of. Also key to know the mental make up of the player. If he's very self confident you can wait longer. |
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Hurricane
351 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2010 : 16:49:46
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| My opinion and many will disagree. If a kid can play he can play, if he is good teams will want him even if he never played with a travel team before. Pitchers probably save their arms sticking to rec ball. My honest opinion is if you play rec ball until 12 and are pretty good, you will make a travel team at 13. Maybe not the best one around but there are so many you will make one. If you are athletic strong arm and can run you will catch up pretty fast when the testosterone kicks in. I think Travel Baseball before 12 is probably a waste of time and money. I would be willing to bet any kid that makes it to Division I College or Minor League baseball could have played rec until 12 and still would have gotten just as far. |
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Shut Out
512 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2010 : 17:11:56
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| If their good enough they will never be overlooked. |
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sirlurker
187 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2010 : 19:41:18
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| There are a lot of variables to consider in that question. Some rec programs are excellent programs with good competition and good coaches but many are not. As has been stated, if the kid is good he will find a team when he decides to go travel. For us, the decision was my son's. He had gotten bored making all star each year and then going back to a team the next season where you had to start all over with basic throwing and hitting techniques for those players that had never played baseball before. When a travel team invited us to play, my son said yes with no hesitation. But not all travel teams are built equal, some are not far above rec teams. From our experience, when we decided to go travel - there were at least 3 or 4 players in our rec program that were equal to or better than my son in playing ability but when we went back to watch some games two yrs later, my son's skills were much better than those kids he played with in rec. He had been getting better coaching, more competition and more games. So if your son is having fun, getting good coaching and playing competitively then rec programs are great but if not then travel ball is an option to consider. |
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loveforthegame25
448 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2010 : 20:29:57
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Alter-Ego
802 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2010 : 20:47:17
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I want to give you the "If they are good enough..." speech but truth is, each year they stay in league ball after 11u, the further behind they get. There are 1% of the league players that are good enough to make the HS transition without getting more competitive play in. (Leagues like NYO are very much exceptions to the rule. they have a very solid program and do a good job of playing competitive tournaments at the end of the season.)
The key thing to continued development is to play against challenging competition. Unfortunately, few rec leagues offer that level of competition. |
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TAZ980002
831 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2010 : 21:08:27
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| Blue, both of my boys started at the age of 9u, right after Peewee All-stars. It seemed like once the competitive bug got inside them from All-stars, rec ball just wasn't interesting any longer. |
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Blue
7 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2010 : 21:11:46
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Wow - I really thought I would hear a lot of the same thing which is "Get him in travel ball NOW"! Glad to hear we're not alone in our thinking if he's good enough he'll make a decent team even though he's never played travel before (outside of All Stars).
Foul Territory you must be reading my mind. We have considered travel ball but then thought of going the route of staying rec and investing our money in good private coaching for another season or maybe even two.
Biggest challenge is finding a decent rec program. Kids have left in droves and not just the "top" talent. Seems everybody wants to be on a travel team these days.
Thanks for the feedback. |
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coachdan06
433 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2010 : 00:47:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Hurricane
My opinion and many will disagree. If a kid can play he can play, if he is good teams will want him even if he never played with a travel team before. Pitchers probably save their arms sticking to rec ball. My honest opinion is if you play rec ball until 12 and are pretty good, you will make a travel team at 13. Maybe not the best one around but there are so many you will make one. If you are athletic strong arm and can run you will catch up pretty fast when the testosterone kicks in. I think Travel Baseball before 12 is probably a waste of time and money. I would be willing to bet any kid that makes it to Division I College or Minor League baseball could have played rec until 12 and still would have gotten just as far.
hurricane :i can not agree more with all you say
our observations : travel before 11 maybe 12 is very very much about dad ball and buddy ball so are the park "all star teams"
smart famlies with talented sons leave and often go to high accomplishments while the parks teams within a year or so are non competitive if not completely disbanded.
12 year old ball is where the earlier favored kids are quitting because they are being out cleerly classed by other kids and are old enough now to not like it
my direction with all this is to say wait until 12 better 13 when all the other nonsense is largely eliminated youll have alot more fun tooo |
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Top Gun
59 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2010 : 09:23:13
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My only recommendation relative to getting into travel ball by at least 11U is preparation and exposure to other teams for 12U. This is the Cooperstown year, and unless you plan on moving down to Columbus or Warner Robbins to play Little League, it's an experience I hope every kid that loves baseball will have a chance to be a part of. If you start playing travel ball at 12U, it will be more difficult, but not impossible, to find a good Cooperstown-bound team. Up through 14U, it is about providing kids a fun atmosphere with great experiences like Omaha, Disney, Panama Beach and Myrtle Beach.
It all gets pretty serious at 15U for those who are settling in on their high school and possible post high school baseball from here on out. It's just too bad that people take it so seriously up to that point and lose perspective that baseball is one activity among many that a kid can learn sportsmanship, life lessons, how to make friends, and how to have fun at something you are passionate about. |
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Alter-Ego
802 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2010 : 13:41:31
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I truly believe it is most important for a kid to play where they are challenged, against competition that makes them better. For many kids, that is league ball or AAA and below travel ball. (I personally feel that kids can go either way on this option and still work out fine.)
If a player dominates in pitching (or hitting) on a league ball team, they will never be challenged to progress to their full potential. You don't want the first time a player gets challenged to be when they are trying to make the HS team.
Overall, if a kid is succeeding and failing pretty evenly in league ball, I am not sure there is a big reason to move them to travel before 13U, unless they just want to play with a bunch of their friends each year (which leagues don't typically let you do). If league play does not provide the level of coaching development you think your kid needs, get him some lessons before giving up and going to travel assuming they will get it there. That is not always a guarantee either.
The hardest part, though, is to be honest with yourself as to where you feel your kid needs to be. The question is, many times, not whether they CAN compete somewhere else, it is whether the other situation provides the best overall opportunity for their development and enjoyment. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2010 : 14:24:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Alter-Ego
You don't want the first time a player gets challenged to be when they are trying to make the HS team.
Alter, I agree with this statement 100%. However, my opinion (and this is all opinion) is that you don't have to play travel ball from 9 years old to accomplish this. If you play when you are 13 or 14 and even at 12, you should be fine if your talent level is there. I hear what everyone is saying about rec being watered down, and that is probably much more true than it was 7-8 years ago when my son played, but from birth to 12 or 13, baseball should just be about learning the skills and having FUN!!. If the kids enjoy it, they will continue to play. Not saying you can't have fun playing travel at the younger ages, but I think you can still have fun playing rec for a lot less money than it costs to play travel.
And Hurricane is right. It will save a lot of wear on the arm not playing year round. My son has always pitched, but when he played rec, he always had the summers off from baseball. Played in the spring and fall, but that is a far cry from startting in early March and essentially playing through end of October or into November.
Enjoy it while you can, time flies by awfully quick. I can still remember my little boy at 7 and 8 years old playing baseball. He is now a junior in HS and I really don't know where the years have gone. Taking him to showcase for a D1 college coach tonight. Very exciting in a way, very sad in another way. Only 2 years of HS left and who knows what lays beyond that. I cherish every moment I spent with him over the years. |
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bigcatsdad
22 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2010 : 18:37:33
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| Honestly, it is 12 or 13 as several have stated. Hopefully each player will build upon each year and peak at 17-18 when it really matters. Before 12, you're probably wasting money with lessons that you as a parent can teach by watching others and with enough repetitions. |
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jongamefan
218 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2010 : 10:35:38
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quote:
Originally posted by coachdan06
quote:
Originally posted by Hurricane
My opinion and many will disagree. If a kid can play he can play, if he is good teams will want him even if he never played with a travel team before. Pitchers probably save their arms sticking to rec ball. My honest opinion is if you play rec ball until 12 and are pretty good, you will make a travel team at 13. Maybe not the best one around but there are so many you will make one. If you are athletic strong arm and can run you will catch up pretty fast when the testosterone kicks in. I think Travel Baseball before 12 is probably a waste of time and money. I would be willing to bet any kid that makes it to Division I College or Minor League baseball could have played rec until 12 and still would have gotten just as far.
hurricane :i can not agree more with all you say
our observations : travel before 11 maybe 12 is very very much about dad ball and buddy ball so are the park "all star teams"
smart famlies with talented sons leave and often go to high accomplishments while the parks teams within a year or so are non competitive if not completely disbanded.
12 year old ball is where the earlier favored kids are quitting because they are being out cleerly classed by other kids and are old enough now to not like it
my direction with all this is to say wait until 12 better 13 when all the other nonsense is largely eliminated youll have alot more fun tooo
Heres the thing about travel ball too at 12u many many are Dads kids being spotlighted even though their size (too big or too small) is beginning to work against them bvecuase the big field is next
Why fight those aggravations and politics for no gain wait until they are washed out and the less talented non dad players up and quit too , then you enter a field of competition and no time wasted ! |
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G-Man
326 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2010 : 11:06:24
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I disagree with this statement. In my humble opinion it is never a waste to get a player good quality instruction. Everything baseball is about muscle memory. Dad watching other players mechanically and then trying to teach this to their child could cause bad habits to be developed. There are much finer points within certain mechanical aspects of baseball that unless you are very familar with them, you may miss seeing them unless you know what to look for. Hense you may give your child only half of that mechanical tool to work that particular baseball skill and possibly create bad mechanics that will take longer to repair.
Muscle memory takes about 1400 to 1600 hours to develope. Bad muscle memory takes almost double that to break. So why not give a player the complete proper way to perform a baseball skill as early as possible by a trained professional coach.
quote:
Originally posted by bigcatsdad
Honestly, it is 12 or 13 as several have stated. Hopefully each player will build upon each year and peak at 17-18 when it really matters. Before 12, you're probably wasting money with lessons that you as a parent can teach by watching others and with enough repetitions.
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Hurricane
351 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2010 : 11:26:59
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quote:
Originally posted by G-Man
I disagree with this statement. In my humble opinion it is never a waste to get a player good quality instruction. Everything baseball is about muscle memory. Dad watching other players mechanically and then trying to teach this to their child could cause bad habits to be developed. There are much finer points within certain mechanical aspects of baseball that unless you are very familar with them, you may miss seeing them unless you know what to look for. Hense you may give your child only half of that mechanical tool to work that particular baseball skill and possibly create bad mechanics that will take longer to repair.
Muscle memory takes about 1400 to 1600 hours to develope. Bad muscle memory takes almost double that to break. So why not give a player the complete proper way to perform a baseball skill as early as possible by a trained professional coach.
There are still many instructors and coaches out there giving bad information some more than dad. They think they know what goes on in a baseball swing and don't have a clue.
Squish the bug, I still hear major coaches telling players this and it kills me. |
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biged
198 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2010 : 12:17:57
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| No AGE is good. Quit while you still have a life. Once you start travel ball it is over. All your money and time will be consumed. |
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G-Man
326 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2010 : 12:34:05
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I agree with that but this is why you must do your research before using a particular instructor. Just because someone played in the Minors or Majors doesnt mean they know how to instruct. I know a lot of guys that were very good hitters in the pros but cant relay to a student how to do the same thing.
The point with my comment was to suggest that its never too early to start a child learning proper mechanics for any particular baseball skill. Its all about the muscle memory and only time and practice is going to help.
quote:
Originally posted by Hurricane
quote:
Originally posted by G-Man
I disagree with this statement. In my humble opinion it is never a waste to get a player good quality instruction. Everything baseball is about muscle memory. Dad watching other players mechanically and then trying to teach this to their child could cause bad habits to be developed. There are much finer points within certain mechanical aspects of baseball that unless you are very familar with them, you may miss seeing them unless you know what to look for. Hense you may give your child only half of that mechanical tool to work that particular baseball skill and possibly create bad mechanics that will take longer to repair.
Muscle memory takes about 1400 to 1600 hours to develope. Bad muscle memory takes almost double that to break. So why not give a player the complete proper way to perform a baseball skill as early as possible by a trained professional coach.
There are still many instructors and coaches out there giving bad information some more than dad. They think they know what goes on in a baseball swing and don't have a clue.
Squish the bug, I still hear major coaches telling players this and it kills me.
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Hurricane
351 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2010 : 13:23:50
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| What you will see is the better athletes will go farther in baseball regardless of what they do before age 12. Good Reps bad reps it doesn't really matter (look at some of Dominicans) what it comes down too is how well they run and how strong their arms are. |
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Alter-Ego
802 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2010 : 14:24:45
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Hurricane,
I completely agree that there are some instructors out there that are doing a dis-service to the kids they are instructing. That is the research that has to go into the process when finding the right instructor. If a person has not proven to be an experienced player (College and above) or proven to be a very successful coach or instructor developing players, don't spend $50/hr taking lessons from them. (Not that being an experienced player is an auto pass to being a good instructor. Just because you can do something does not mean you can teach it.)
Do your homework.
I see a lot of instructors that teach a lot of things wrong. If after 2 or 3 months, when your son does work outside of lessons, you don't see improvements in that skill, I would suggest evaluating if you are getting your money's worth. |
Edited by - Alter-Ego on 08/26/2010 14:46:23 |
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coachdan06
433 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2010 : 15:38:41
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quote:
Originally posted by biged
No AGE is good. Quit while you still have a life. Once you start travel ball it is over. All your money and time will be consumed.
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Hurricane
351 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2010 : 16:07:15
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I agree Alter-Ego excellent point, if you don't see improvment then time to try someone else.
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cop311
44 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2010 : 17:17:06
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| One thing no one mentioned is that all rec programs are not created equal. While it is true if a kid has the skills they can make a travel team at 12-13-14. I wonder how many kids who had the talent at 8-9-10 quit baseball at 11-12 because it's not much fun to have 6 kids show up to practice, teams with kids who are first time players, and unable to work on more advanced skills. I knows my son was very frustrated at his 9 year old rec experience so we left at 10. Going to a travel team may be what some kids need to keep their interests up. Just a thought. |
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coachdb007
20 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2010 : 19:58:57
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| Alter sounds like you have all the knowlege to instruct. How about $55 an hour? |
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Age to start Travel Ball
