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crackedbats
160 Posts |
 Posted - 05/31/2010 : 21:48:15
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This must be new math or something. How does a 2-1 team with a lower runs allowed(which is the first tie breaker) end of getting shafted out of the elimination bracet in favor of EC Stallions? Team Gwinnett Blue had a 2-1 record with 5.67 runs allowed and EC Stallions had a 2-1 record with 6 runs allowed yet the ECB math team put the Stallions in the 12 spot. Also, the bracket was drawn up incorrectly. The seeds should have been:
1. Titans 3-0 1.33 runs allowed
2. Astros 3-0 2.33 runs allowed
3. Hurricanes 3-0 3.00 runs allowed
4. GA Panthers 3-0 3.33 runs allowed
5. LA Tigers 2-1 3.33 runs allowed
6. EC Rawlings 2-1 4.33 runs allowed Run diff of 3.67
7. Megastars 2-1 4.33 runs allowed Run Diff of 1.00
8. Vipers 2-1 4.33 runs allowed run diff of .33
9. EC Longhorns 2-1 4.67 runs allowed run dif 2.67
10 Kenn Mustangs 2-1 4.67 runs allowed run dif of .33
11 TN Dores Blck 2-1 5.00 runs allowed
12 Team Gwin Blu 2-1 5.67 runs allowed
13 EC Stallions 2-1 6.00 runs allowed
So the elim brackets should have been seeds 1,2,3 and 4 getting byes.
Then the draws shoud have been:
#5 LA Tigers vs #12 TG Blue
#6 EC rawlings vs # 11 TN Dores Black
#7 Megastars vs #10 Kenn Mustangs
#8 PC Vipers vs #9 EC Longhorns
Instead the brackets ended up with 1,2,3 and 4 getting byes and the remaining games were definitely a mess
#5 LA Tigers vs #10 Kenn Mustangs
#6 EC Rawlings vs # 8 PC Vipers
#7 Char Megastars vs #11 TN Dores Black
#9 EC Longhorns Vs #13 EC Stallions
Here is the tie breaker off the Tournament website:
Pool Standings Sorted on the following:
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1) Winning Percentage - Descending
2) Number Wins - Descending
3) Number Loses - Ascending
4) Tied Teams (vs. each other) Winning Pct - Descending
5) Avg Points Allowed - Ascending
6) Avg Run Differential with a maximum of (8) - Descending
7) USSSA Points - Descending
8) Date Team Entered USSSA Database
I would think TG Blue would be a little irrate over the snafu....or maybe not since they didnt have to wait around ECB only to be sent home due to the rain. Maybe we need accountants to do the bracket next time |
Edited by - crackedbats on 05/31/2010 21:51:58 |
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Tigers89
2 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2010 : 08:51:28
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| If I am not mistaken only the top 2 teams from each pool advance. TG Blue was third in their pool. My question would be how come the Charlotte Hurricanes were allowed to violate the pitching rules, which occured in an extra inning game. One of their pitchers threw 9 innings in 3 days. Violation of this rule does not allow advancement to bracket play as stated in USSSA rules. |
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bat man
23 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2010 : 08:55:06
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| Hey cracked, I feel your pain, but was under the impression that the top 2 teams from each pool were to advance. TGBlue ended up third in their pool. However, it seems the ruling masters at EC decided to change the method for seeding, and then changed it back again! Go figure that one out. |
Edited by - bat man on 06/01/2010 11:37:05 |
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anonymous
2 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2010 : 08:57:34
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| The first determinant of whether or not a team advanced to elimination was being a pool winner as stated by USSSA. Since the EC Stallions won their pool and Team Gwinnett Blue did not, susbequent tie break rules were not applicable. THere was no screw-up in the seeding. Nice try. |
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bat man
23 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2010 : 08:58:52
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| So, who will get the "berth" for the Elite 32???? |
Edited by - bat man on 06/01/2010 11:37:05 |
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crackedbats
160 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2010 : 12:12:32
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| if they only took top 2 from each pool then I stand corrected. ty for the information anonymous. If I have ruffled feathers then I apologize. |
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sdrhitman4
17 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2010 : 13:24:38
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The ECB Titans got the birth and if they don't take it then it will be passed to the ECB Astros.
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greglomax
1031 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2010 : 13:58:00
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Because the last set of games on Saturday night were rained out, and would have to be played on Sunday, it was unfortunate that the brackets had to be reduced from 16 teams to 12. (This was after the Fri night games got rain delayed and finished well after midnight.)
Here was the letter that went out on Saturday night, well before all the bracket games had been played:
Sat, May 29, 2010 at 11:38 PM
Coaches – the schedule for tomorrow has been changed as well as the format for the event due to rain outs we experienced tonight and field limitations. Our intent is to have all teams finish their 3 pool games. We will then take the top two teams from each pool and have a 12-team single elimination bracket. The top 4 pool winners (based on USSSA tie breaker criteria) will be seeded 1-4 and receive a first round playoff bye. The 5th and 6th seeded pool winners and the 1-6th seeded second place teams will be seeded 5-12 respectively, and will play in four 1st round bracket games. Pool protection will be in effect in the first round to ensure that two teams from the same pool do not match up in first round games. Pool protection only in the first round. Pool protection, if necessary, will be effectuated starting with the lowest possible seed first.
We have attempted to call all teams these changes will affect. We used the numbers supplied to us in tournament entry forms, etc. We are also sending this email.
There are many debates over seeding. While the tie-breaker rules are clearly defined; whether you simply rank all teams without consideration of the pools they are in, or not, is not.
I realize some will argue that all teams should be considered in one group, based on the tie breaker rules, and seeded out accordingly, while others believe that how you fare against your pool should be given a higher priority.
Both have their flaws.
If you don't consider the pools, a tough pool could have a pool winner that goes 2-1 and gives up a lot of runs, not even make bracket play because they were beaten, by the tie-breaker rules, by a 3rd place team in another pool that went 2-1 but did not give up many runs.
I don't believe that any team that wins their pool should not advance to bracket play.
In this event, we had to go down to 12 teams give the number of field slots we had available. There were 6 pools, which means we needed to take the top 2 teams from each pool. All the pool winners got seeded 1-6 and the 2nd place teams got seeded 7-12, based on USSSA's tie-breaker rules. (The one change we had to make was switching the EC Stallions and TN Dores Black because of pool protection. That paired the EC Stallions up against the EC Longhorns instead of the Charlotte Megastars, who had been in their pool.)
Unfortunately mother nature was not finished messing with us and rained out the bracket games on Sunday evening.
I held a coaches meeting, after the rain stopped, and explained that we were washed out for the evening and would have to try to start back up at 8am on Mon morning, but would have to reduce the game times in order to get them in. We still wanted to allow the 12 teams an opportunity to play if possible.
Unfortunately, again, Mother Nature had a different plan and rained on us at 6am Monday morning unlike it had rained anytime previously that weekend.
We then had to reduce the bracket field down to the top 4 teams as it would take most of the day, assuming it did not rain any more, to even get fields ready.
By early afternoon we were able to get one field ready and notified the 4 teams that the 3 games (2 semi's and 1 champ) would begin at 3:15pm. The 2nd and 3rd seed teams were in the dugout around 3pm, and the lightning detector went off. About 3:15 a monsoon set in and flooded the fields again.
So much for adding insult to injury.
I hope any of you that have to run a tournament (especially if you are like me and volunteering to do it) never have to deal with these types of circumstances.
Good luck in your next tournament, both on the field, and with the weather.
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Edited by - greglomax on 06/01/2010 19:30:56 |
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13udad1234
34 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2010 : 16:21:55
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quote:
Originally posted by anonymous
The first determinant of whether or not a team advanced to elimination was being a pool winner as stated by USSSA. Since the EC Stallions won their pool and Team Gwinnett Blue did not, susbequent tie break rules were not applicable. THere was no screw-up in the seeding. Nice try.
1.Stallions didn't win their pool.
2.ECB changed it to top twelve teams in the tournament due to rain not top two from each bracket |
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rbihit
10 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2010 : 07:08:10
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Greg -
If you seed the top 4 by runs allowed, which you did, you must stay consistant throughout. You seeded 1-4 based on runs allowed, gave them a bye, and then seeded 5-6 which were also pool winners. The 4th seed had 1 loss, so a runs allowed tie break was used to seed 5-6. If you are going to do it the right way due to inclement weather, you give all pool winners a bye, then have the #2s play in. Otherwise, you seed 1-12 based on runs allowed no matter what happens in their pool. Since you shortened the tourney and were going to offer consolation games, this would have been proper scenario. Here is the rest of your email:
Sat, May 29, 2010 at 11:38 PM
Coaches – the schedule for tomorrow has been changed as well as the format for the event due to rain outs we experienced tonight and field limitations. Our intent is to have all teams finish their 3 pool games. We will then take the top two teams from each pool and have a 12-team single elimination bracket. The top 4 pool winners (based on USSSA tie breaker criteria) will be seeded 1-4 and receive a first round playoff bye. The 5th and 6th seeded pool winners and the 1-6th seeded second place teams will be seeded 5-12 respectively, and will play in four 1st round bracket games. Pool protection will be in effect in the first round to ensure that two teams from the same pool do not match up in first round games. Pool protection only in the first round. Pool protection, if necessary, will be effectuated starting with the lowest possible seed first.
We have attempted to call all teams these changes will affect. We used the numbers supplied to us in tournament entry forms, etc. We are also sending this email.
"The schedule for the remainder of the weekend is attached. Teams not making playoffs that wish to have a consolation game will be accommodated to the extent we can. We may have up to 4 consolation spots – these will be assigned with all fairness taken into account. If you would like a consolation game – please let me know tomorrow by calling (number ommitted)."
Why would you not just eliminate the consolation games (4 spots) and keep the 16 team championship bracket with the wild card scenario that everyone signed up for, and then give the other 2 pool winners their bye that they earned?
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Alter-Ego
802 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2010 : 10:19:41
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rbihit,
A 12 team bracket can't have 6 teams having a bye the first round. That only leaves 6 teams to play-in which would feed only to 3 winners to the 6 byes. Meaning 3 teams would get two rounds of Bye. |
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rbihit
10 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2010 : 12:10:34
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| Alter-ego - Correct, but this tourney was supposed to have had 16 teams initially and had a bracket set up for it. My point was to keep the 16 teams, not 12 and offer 4 spots for consolation. |
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whits23
596 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2010 : 13:40:43
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| who signed the letter/email that was written? |
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rbihit
10 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2010 : 14:37:03
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| Greg Lomax |
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teddy41
421 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2010 : 12:26:04
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It probably was not the case here but i hate to see tourney directors or host parks having teams participate in their own events.
I know at east cobb people rent the complex so ECB teams playing in it is not that bad but no director or anyone affiliated with a tournament should ever have a team in the event. It is just not good business.
Its like having a best burger contest hosted by macdonalds |
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Alter-Ego
802 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2010 : 09:19:04
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Teddy,
I agree. That would always be my preference. |
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