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TAZ980002
831 Posts |
 Posted - 05/04/2010 : 21:36:11
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| Pool schedules will be out soon - name your final 4 for the gold bracket here. |
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TAZ980002
831 Posts |
Posted - 05/04/2010 : 22:02:25
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1. VENOM BASEBALL--MARIETTA, GA
2. EAST COBB LUCK--MARIETTA, GA
3. SHARKS BASEBALL--MARIETTA, GA
4. 6-4-3 DP COUGARS--MARIETTA, GA
5. 6-4-3 DP JAGUARS--MARIETTA, GA
6. HOLLY SPRINGS EXPRESS--HOLLY SPRINGS, GA
7. SHARON SPRINGS SPARTANS BLACK--CUMMING, GA
8. CHEROKEE REDS--WOODSTOCK, GA
9. GEORGIA RAPTORS--CUMMING, GA
10. SANDY PLAINS WILDCATS--MARIETTA, GA
11. EAST COBB TITANS--MARIETTA, GA
12. SHARON SPRINGS SPARTANS BLUE--CUMMING, GA
13. HOMEPLATE CHILIDOGS (SANCHEZ)--PEACHTREE CITY, GA
14. CARTERSVILLE ROOKIES--CARTERSVILLE, GA
15. WARRIORS BASEBALL--CUMMING, GA
16. GEORGIA JACKETS GOLD--ALPHARETTA, GA
17. GEORGIA JACKETS WHITE--ALPHARETTA, GA
18. NORTH GEORGIA COUGARS--RINGGOLD, GA
19. ALPHARETTA ATHLETICS--ALPHARETTA, GA
20. EAST COBB ASTROS--MARIETTA, GA
21. WILLS PARK WARRIORS--ALPHARETTA, GA
22. SANDTOWN RED SOX--ATLANTA, GA
23. WEST FORSYTH DIAMOND DAWGS--CUMMING, GA
24. GEORGIA OUTLAWS--ROME, GA
25. HOMEPLATE CHILIDOGS (LAWSON)--PEACHTREE CITY, GA
Knowing who is playing might help !! |
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TAZ980002
831 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2010 : 05:53:54
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| bmoser, they are out. BTW, tough draw for the Warriors. Did you make Tony mad somehow in an earlier post ??? |
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Wildcatmom5
13 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2010 : 09:57:17
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| I think for the most part the pools look pretty well matched. SP Wildcats has Cherokee Reds and HP Chili Dogs (Lawson). We are down a player with a broken thumb but I am looking forward to a beautiful weekend of baseball. |
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Shut Out
512 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2010 : 12:37:17
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Way too much time on my hands:) Here is my guess at how the pool play shakes out.
Team # Team Name Win Loss
A1 643 Cougars 1 1
A2 GA Jackets W 0 2
A3 Sandtown 2 0
B1 Sharks 0 2
B2 Alpha A's 1 1
B3 Cart Rookies 2 0
C1 Sand Plains 1 1
C2 Cher Reds 0 2
C3 HP Lawson 2 0
D1 ECB Titans 2 0
D2 Holly Springs 1 1
D3 HP Sanchez 0 2
E1 Will Park 1 1
E2 WFD Dawgs 0 0
E3 ECB Astros 2 0
F1 GA Outlaws 1 1
F2 GA Raptors 0 2
F3 643 Jaguars 2 0
G1 Warriors 1 1
G2 GA Jackets G 1 1
G3 NGA Cougars 1 1
H1 SH SP SP Blue 1 1
H2 ECB Luck 1 1
H3 SH SP SP Black 1 1
H4 Venom 1 1
Gold bracket teams in no order
643 Cougars
Sandtown
Alpha A's
Cart Rookies
Sand Plains
HP Lawson
ECB Titans
Holly Springs
ECB Astros
GA Outlaws
643 Jaguars
GA Jackets G
NGA Cougars
SH SP SP Black
Venom
Silver bracket teams in no order
GA Jackets W
Sharks
Cher Reds
HP Sanchez
Will Park
WFD Dawgs
GA Raptors
Warriors
SH SP SP Blue
ECB Luck
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Shut Out
512 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2010 : 06:59:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Shut Out
Way too much time on my hands:) Here is my guess at how the pool play shakes out.
Team # Team Name Win Loss
A1 643 Cougars 1 1
A2 GA Jackets W 0 2
A3 Sandtown 2 0
B1 Sharks 0 2
B2 Alpha A's 1 1
B3 Cart Rookies 2 0
C1 Sand Plains 1 1
C2 Cher Reds 0 2
C3 HP Lawson 2 0
D1 ECB Titans 2 0
D2 Holly Springs 1 1
D3 HP Sanchez 0 2
E1 Will Park 1 1
E2 WFD Dawgs 0 0
E3 ECB Astros 2 0
F1 GA Outlaws 1 1
F2 GA Raptors 0 2
F3 643 Jaguars 2 0
G1 Warriors 1 1
G2 GA Jackets G 1 1
G3 NGA Cougars 1 1
H1 SH SP SP Blue 1 1
H2 ECB Luck 1 1
H3 SH SP SP Black 1 1
H4 Venom 1 1
Gold bracket teams in no order
643 Cougars CORRECT
Sandtown CORRECT
Alpha A's CORRECT
Cart Rookies CORRECT
Sand Plains CORRECT
HP Lawson CORRECT
ECB Titans CORRECT
Holly Springs CORRECT
ECB Astros CORRECT
GA Outlaws CORRECT
643 Jaguars CORRECT
GA Jackets G CORRECT
NGA Cougars CORRECT
SH SP SP Black WRONG
Venom WRONG
Silver bracket teams in no order
GA Jackets W CORRECT
Sharks CORRECT
Cher Reds CORRECT
HP Sanchez CORRECT
Will Park CORRECT
WFD Dawgs CORRECT
GA Raptors CORRECT
Warriors CORRECT
SH SP SP Blue WAY WRONG
ECB Luck WRONG
NOT BAD IF I DO SAY SO MYSELF..... |
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Peanutsr
171 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2010 : 22:18:36
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What a terrible ending to what was a pretty good tournament.
643 up by one run in the bottom of the sixth. One out sandtown had a man on third. Batter hits ball to deep left field. Outfielder catches ball at the wall, throws the ball in which is cut off on edge of grass between short and third. Ball is thrown to third base and runner is called out for leaving early. I have to admit that I was watching the catch and did not see wether or not the runner tagged. I know that the runner went back to third, and if he left early it was not obvious. IMHO there was no way the outfielder was going to throw the runner out, the runner did go back to the bag. ( he didn't just run and cross home before the ball was caught )This was a championship game between two teams who fought hard. I think you have to let the kids play. |
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in_the_know
985 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2010 : 22:48:49
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Peanutsr,
What you described wasn't the situation or what the call was.
There were runners on First and Third and one out. Flyball to Left was caught and throw was made to plate. Runner from third properly tagged and advanced and slid in safely ahead of throw. Runner from First advanced to Second, HOWEVER, never tagged up. The runner had been creeping toward second and never returned. The catcher threw down to first where the out call was made for the third out and, since it was a force, what would have been the tying run did not count.
There was never an appeal made at Third.
I heard from more than one person watching that it was the right call. |
Edited by - in_the_know on 05/09/2010 22:53:42 |
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dirtdawgs
58 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2010 : 00:41:43
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In the know... If that is really what happened then the call was blown. That is not a force. It is a delayed force and the run would have counted. Too tired to look up the rule but know it is on the list of most often missed rules. Here is the crazy thing saw another tournament locally end the same way last weekend.
A force play is in effect anytime a runner is forced to leave his base because the batter became a runner. rule 4.09 decided to look it up.
That is a horrible rule for an experienced umpire to miss and I cant beleive the other coach didnt know it. Hope your senario is wrong because that it just horrible. |
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Peanutsr
171 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2010 : 07:42:19
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If that was the call, since the runner crossed home before the tag was made at first, shouldn't the run have counted?quote:
Originally posted by in_the_know
Peanutsr,
What you described wasn't the situation or what the call was.
There were runners on First and Third and one out. Flyball to Left was caught and throw was made to plate. Runner from third properly tagged and advanced and slid in safely ahead of throw. Runner from First advanced to Second, HOWEVER, never tagged up. The runner had been creeping toward second and never returned. The catcher threw down to first where the out call was made for the third out and, since it was a force, what would have been the tying run did not count.
There was never an appeal made at Third.
I heard from more than one person watching that it was the right call.
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rock44melnix
110 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2010 : 08:40:26
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| Umpires blew this call BIG TIME. It's not a force out it's a timing play. Because of it being a timing play if the run crosses home "legally" meaning he tagged properly, prior to the appeal or the live ball appeal/throw to the base to get the runner out who left early, run would count. NFHS rule 8-2-6h = if the appeal is the 3rd out, all runs scored ahead of the legal appeal would count. This sounds as though it was a live ball appeal in the original post. If the 3rd or 4th out resulting from an appeal occurs on a timing play run counts, if those outs result through a force out then runs don't count. BAD BAD call here. |
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bulldogbaseball100
59 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2010 : 09:04:47
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| This would be a force out not a timing play. If runner at first base fails to tag up and a throw to first is caught by 1B then no tag is needed... just the force. It would appear the right call was made. |
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baseballpapa
1520 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2010 : 09:26:32
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| Are we all sure that what happened. So far there are 2 conflicting examples of the play. Could someone with knowledge such as the TD or umpire let us know what really happened and if the call was really blown we might use it for future reference to make sure that some other team is not denied a fair opportunity. If the second example is true then I would think the call was blown and the rules citing the error made public. If it was not a blown call then the umpires should have the opportunity to let us know what rule they were applying when making the call they did. Umpires are human and will always make mistakes and mistakes are greatly magnified when the outcome of the game is on the line. My problem is with umpires that are not trained or qualified to be on the field to make the call. Did we have good umpires that made a bad call or did we have untrained umpires that did not have a clue what call to make. |
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touchemall
145 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2010 : 10:12:16
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| Did the team who lost appeal the field ruling and were they able to site the rule at the time to the umpire or head official? Was not there but am curious if an appeal and/or formal protest was made since this was based on a rule not being applied properly. |
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rock44melnix
110 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2010 : 15:13:25
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BDOG - you are wrong, dead wrong. Don't mean to sound mean but you are wrong. It's not a force, the runner isn't forced anywhere, it's a timing play. Get the case book out for NFHS rules and they site specific examples. This is a timing play. Casebook p 138 top of page beginning paragraph states under topic heading "Runs scoring on 3rd out" - "If a runner leaves a base too soon on a caught fly ball and returns in attempt to retag, this is a time play and not a force out" runner is not being forced to advance to 2B and has already established 1B so he can't be forced there. Same case book pg 138 bottom of page rule 9.1.1 Situation B "With one out, R1 is on 3b, and R2 is on 2b, batter hits long fly ball that is caught by F8. R1 remains in contact w/his base but R2 nearly advances to 3b. Throw to F4 arrives at 2B ahead of R2's return. RULING: R2 is out for 3rd out. IF R1 scored before R2 was retired, THE RUN COUNTS. The inning ended w/ a play in which the 3rd out was NOT a force out. Another example would be on page 139 Situation F. Conversely, let's say that bases were loaded, and instead of fly ball being caught dropped in for a single, and runner at 1b, missed 2b on his way to 3b and appeal was made that he missed the bag at 2b. Runner would be out there for 3rd out (if there were 2 outs v 1) and NO RUNS would score since the 3rd out would have been a force out.
The umpires made the wrong call as described in the post here - due to thinking it was a force play v timing. |
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Sox
55 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2010 : 15:36:10
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The tournamnet director call me this morning to explain, The umpires made the wrong call, the TD apologized and felt bad about what took place. The kid on 1st even if he didn't tag up, The run that crossed home plate and should have counted because the appeal to first was made after the kid who did tag up cross the plate with only 2 outs, the appeal to first made the trird out. this is not a force out. The game should have continued on with a tie score 4-4, International rules, The same way we did on Saturday. It's over we lost and there is nothing we can do about it. I feel bad for my players, The umpires didn't think about them, They told me to shut up and they had made the right call, when I tried to explain they didn't want to hear it. My kids played their heart out to the end, I'm proud of them.
Tony Douglas
11U Sandtown Red Sox
quote:
Originally posted by baseballpapa
Are we all sure that what happened. So far there are 2 conflicting examples of the play. Could someone with knowledge such as the TD or umpire let us know what really happened and if the call was really blown we might use it for future reference to make sure that some other team is not denied a fair opportunity. If the second example is true then I would think the call was blown and the rules citing the error made public. If it was not a blown call then the umpires should have the opportunity to let us know what rule they were applying when making the call they did. Umpires are human and will always make mistakes and mistakes are greatly magnified when the outcome of the game is on the line. My problem is with umpires that are not trained or qualified to be on the field to make the call. Did we have good umpires that made a bad call or did we have untrained umpires that did not have a clue what call to make.
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baseballpapa
1520 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2010 : 16:38:30
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| Papa can only hope that before I expire that I can find a little of the class that Coach Tony of the Sox has. The one's of you that know me well know that I would be still be at East Cobb and have the umpire in a headlock. He is a class act and we could all learn from his response but it does not minimize the rotten way that this game ended. He is right that it is over and done with and he is also right to be looking to the future. I heard something the other day that I hope sticks with me and I believe that it was Kung Fu Panda that said it, It goes something like this: " Yesterday is History, Tommorrow is a Mystery, and today is called the Present because it is a gift. In other words we all should be glad that we are here to fight another day. |
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TripleCrownAdministrator
240 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2010 : 16:42:32
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To all 11 and under coaches, players, and fans:
The incidient that took place in the final inning of the championship game yesterday was very disappointing from a tournament director's standpoint. I will try and clearly explain what happened yesterday and then let it go and not comment any further.
The championship game was between the two best teams of the tournament. Sandtown Red Sox and the 6-4-3 DP Cougars who are both very well represented and have outstanding programs. The score was 4 to 3 in favor of the 6-4-3 DP Cougars going into the bottom of the 6th inning. Sandtown had runners at 1st base and 3rd base with one out in the game. The next batter hit a normal fly ball to left field. The left fielder catches the ball for out #2 and the runner from 3rd base tags up and is headed for home with the tying run. The throw from the left fielder is headed for the plate and then all of a sudden 6-4-3 realizes the runner at first base had not gotten back to first to retag after the caught flyball. They fire the ball to first base for the apparent third out of the inning.
Now this situation is a timing play. If the runner from 3rd base scores before the runner is thrown out at 1st base, then the run should have counted and the game would have been tied up. I asked the umpire behind the plate, did he cross the plate before the throw was made to first base???? He answered that yes the runner did not make it home before the throw to first. However, everyone else in the park saw that the runner had clearly made it home before they realized the kid from first had not gotten back to the bag to retag. Ultimately the only call that matters is the one from the umpire.
Obviously there was madness in the air and the Sandtown Red Sox fans had felt that they had been cheated out of the game. They felt that the game should have been tied and gone to extra innings. It shook me pretty good as a tournament director because you never want any game to end like that in any situation. You had kids in tears and it was total chaos everywhere. I tried to do the best that I could to present a well deserved ceremony, but knew something just was not right.
All in all, it was an outstanding tournament. It just ate at me during the drive home from Atlanta to Jacksonville late last night. I called Coach Tony Douglas personally and apologized for the blown call at the end of the game. I also called Danny Pralgo and explained to him what the call should have been. We all learned from this situation and all now know that baseball is a very funny game. Too many crazy things happen and you try to get the call correct. Sometimes we get it right and sometimes we fail to get it right because of our own inexperiences.
Just wanted to take the time out to personally thank all 25 teams that participated with me this past weekend. All of the teams have been huge supporters of our organization and we look forward to hosting a very huge state tournament from June 4th to 6th in Cumming.
Thank you and see you soon on the diamond.
Tony VonDolteren
GA Triple Crown Baseball |
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6bomber
68 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2010 : 18:06:26
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i don't know him personally, but Mr. VonDolteren sounds like the kinda guy you would want to play for. he is honest about
the game and acknowledges the problems. not all directors would call the team and apoplogize for the results. wish
we had some representation for the umpiring in the snit in tallahassee this past weekend. heard complaints from all age groups. (we had 4 bomber teams playing 9u-12u) especially the game between bombers and longhorns. we lost our coach and
they almost lost their coach. these officials ruined what could've been a good game. |
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baseballpapa
1520 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2010 : 18:12:13
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| Ok, I have now read enough on this forum and another forum that makes me believe that the umpires made a terrible mistake in the Sandtown and 643 Cougars championship game. I would think that as many times as Tony with Triple Crown has been on this site that he would want to respond to our concerns with the umpiring. I would like to know if these umpires and their association was hired by Triple Crown or were they provided by East Cobb. There is not much to be done now that would benefit the Sox and I am sure that 643 played just as hard as the Sox and if I know 643 the way that I do I would bet that they are as disappointed as us that the game ended this way. Is there some way that Triple Crown could assure us that these umpires will not be used in future tournaments. The Atlanta area has thrown a lot of support toward Triple Crown with the last 2 11U tournaments having over 32 entrants. That is a lot of money being spent and we should expect a quality umpired event with the amount of money being paid. |
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ERROR ON 6
47 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2010 : 19:03:17
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| Sounds like 643 stole a good one from the Sox. You got to hate for the Sox boy's, Play that hard, beat them in pool play and then to have the Championship "given" to 643 must be disappointing. Hopefully the Sox's players realize who was/is the better team! They proved head to head in pool play |
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baseballpapa
1520 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2010 : 21:34:21
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| Error on 6: Papa hates to but I must disagree with you on this one. What you have in this situation is 2 great teams battling down to the very last out and that is all any great team is shooting for. They both had the opportunity to win the game up to the last out. Unfortunately we will never know who might have won what should have been a international tie breaker but I can assure you that 643 did not have anything to do with the umpires making a mistake and they should not be put down for playing what I have been told was a great game by both teams. |
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baseballnutz
427 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2010 : 22:17:53
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| A balk to send the game to extra innings in pool play and a tie game (if the play would have stood) going to extras in the champ does not lead me to know who the better team is - I think we all hate the way the game concluded and wish it could have played out on the field, but stating 643 stole something because an umpire doesn't know the rule seems like a reach. |
Edited by - baseballnutz on 05/10/2010 23:14:52 |
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CoachMark
216 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2010 : 07:36:07
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quote:
Originally posted by baseballpapa
Ok, I have now read enough on this forum and another forum that makes me believe that the umpires made a terrible mistake in the Sandtown and 643 Cougars championship game. I would think that as many times as Tony with Triple Crown has been on this site that he would want to respond to our concerns with the umpiring. I would like to know if these umpires and their association was hired by Triple Crown or were they provided by East Cobb. There is not much to be done now that would benefit the Sox and I am sure that 643 played just as hard as the Sox and if I know 643 the way that I do I would bet that they are as disappointed as us that the game ended this way. Is there some way that Triple Crown could assure us that these umpires will not be used in future tournaments. The Atlanta area has thrown a lot of support toward Triple Crown with the last 2 11U tournaments having over 32 entrants. That is a lot of money being spent and we should expect a quality umpired event with the amount of money being paid.
Papa - the umpires in question are usually two of the best in my opinion. And I know that Tony does his best to find the best umpires and fields to give us the best experience possible. For most of the events TC holds at ECB, the umpires are provided by NUA, as was the case this weekend. These two particular umpires are independents from Savannah who are not perfect, but are better than most.
NUA does a lot of training and it particularly good at using cases like this as 'teaching moments' for all umpires where mistakes were made. I have seen them spend day(s) at our park going through laborious & tedious work to get their umpires as best prepared as they can be. They also do a nice job of handling complaints and have a form on their website at http://www.nuaumpiresusa.org/ to do this.
This is an unfortunate situation because of the timing, but bad calls are part of the game, just like bad hops, bloop hits, and the many of crazy things that can happen in a baseball game. I feel bad for the Sox players but my guess is that Coach Tony will make them a better team because of this. And hopefully we'll all get to see these two teams battle again. It'll make the next game that much more interesting.
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Sox
55 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2010 : 08:41:31
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6-4-3 Didn't steal anything, They had nothing to do with the umpire's call, Danny told me Face to Face, that he was sorry for the outcome of the game, I want him to know that 6-4-3 did everything they needed to do win, 1 bad call will never decide the out come of a game. 6-4-3 won and they desreve to do so.
Tony
11U Sandtown Red Sox
quote:
Originally posted by ERROR ON 6
Sounds like 643 stole a good one from the Sox. You got to hate for the Sox boy's, Play that hard, beat them in pool play and then to have the Championship "given" to 643 must be disappointing. Hopefully the Sox's players realize who was/is the better team! They proved head to head in pool play
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rock44melnix
110 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2010 : 08:53:28
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Overall, I thought the umpiring was not too bad, but there were several instances where the rules were most certainly not understood by a few of the umpires doing the 11U games. I saw a few w/strange and tight strike zones to a fairly "wide" strike zone, a missed call here and there but I think most of us would agree these are issues that are part of the game and they happen. What is not part of the game though is when umpires do not know how to apply certain rules or don't know or understand them and these are the areas that improvement is needed. We had a few balk calls against us that I was just astonished were called. One was called because my pitcher was pitching from the stretch and using a slide step, runner got to 2b and the same pitcher from the stretch stopped using the slide step and the ump called that a balk because this new delivery was not the same as what he did when the runner was at 1B. GULP??? Had another balk called w/the age old myth that a RH pitcher must disengage the rubber to throw to 1B, neither call affected the game but who knows how they may have affected the mind of the pitcher at the time. And both are wrong application and understanding of the rules.
A few months back after the Slugfest tournament was played and several complaints were laid out, there was a gentleman who got on this forum from the umpire organization NUA I believe. Well this is the organization where the umpires were from that officiated this past weekend's tournament as well. If this same person is reading this posts, we certainly would like to hear from you now that these issues are against the NUA umpires that did this tournament. Again, overall I don't think at least at our games they were that bad, calls will be missed and strike zones will never be agreeable to us all, but knowing these rules has to get better.
Tony as usual put on a great event and continues to be responsive and set the standard for TDs to run tournaments by. |
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