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JJJ
12 Posts |
 Posted - 03/26/2012 : 08:09:59
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| It looks like team jumping is in full gear - ALREADY. I'm hearing some rumblings at East Cobb and it doesn't sound good. It should be an interesting couple of weeks to see where everyone lands. |
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BravesFan
533 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2012 : 09:08:22
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imo, it's worse this yr cause teams are carrying more players so playin time gets squeezed for some and even the regulars as coaches try and get others some time in the field and a few AB's. Just heard last week one east cobb kid is already on his 3 team since christmas and 6-7 others at east cobb and other teams will be making changes in the next few days. Grass isn't always greener on the other side folks, time to be a parent and teach your boy to make a stand and get some pt and not run from comp cause it onlys gets harder as you get older, trust me on that one.
When your boy gets to HS and he dont play in the 1st few games will you quit then too? |
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rudeboy
37 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2012 : 10:35:34
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| Well stated BravesFan! Some parents are setting their kids up for a rude awakening! |
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1ballplayer
97 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2012 : 10:58:22
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This topic strikes particularly close to home for us as we had to forfeit 2 games this weekend, our first pool play game and our second bracket game, because we were misled by a couple of parents. Although we confirmed their commitment to this tournament earlier in the week, they decided to go play for another team and did not even give us the courtesy of a phone call!
As a result, we are having an open tryout this week for anyone who wants to play on a good team doing everything we can to compete and have fun. See our post in the 12u tryout section for more details.
Mike Oliver
12u ECB Diamondbacks |
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eastcobbkreskin
143 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2012 : 11:23:09
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It becomes a bit like musical chairs, when the music stops, the kids at the tail end of the lineups lose their spots to these jumpers. Yes the team bringing the jumper on might be better short term but, what do you do with the extra kid in the lineup? the team is never the same. Along with the playing time issues, you have the financial implications and the many conversations that are more than likely overheard by the kids, all justified by the coach in the name of making the "team better". What happened to picking a team and playing until the end of the season with the team you picked?
I guess it would be ok, if in preseason, that you set the following expectations for the team:
1. playing time is earned, no playing time is guaranteed
2. if you do not like a decision a coach makes, tough, no discussion
3. we do not expect everyone to be at practice, therefore, having a good practice week will not guarantee you playing time
4. we will treat all kids on the team the same, regardless of whether their dad is coaching or a large donor, unless they are from out of town and we do not get to see them practice during the week, so we will be treating them a little differently than the rest of the kids who are making all of the practices
5. we will reserve the right to add players to the team during the season at any point regardless of the successes we have had, in order to make our team better and to win more than we already have
6. all payments must be in before the season starts, there will be no refunds, unless we let a kid go, because we mutually agree that he is a good kid that is a bad fit to our team and we made a mistake choosing him in the first place
7. although we do not publish this one, we do say it, at least after a loss or a tough game, you know, in the team huddle, we are committed to this team, to teaching life lessons like working thru adverse conditions (learning to live with the decisions that we make), and to making the boys into great young men. blah blah blah
Will the boys believe this last one? or will they never be satisfied with their decisions? as there will always be a better player available that will jump because they are not satisfied with their decision. The only people that can stop this madness are the coaches that will stand up and coach the teams they choose and the parents who will decide it is time to see if Johnny can learn to work thru some struggles and get better and be a team player rather than the quitting/jumping for a so called better situation again and again.
Any coach that has brought one of these jumpers onto his team is part of the problem. The only exception is the team that has injuries and do not have enough kids to field a team. |
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Outtahere
43 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2012 : 11:40:10
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| Curious as to what a coach sees as a good sitting rotation? I saw one kid on an ECB team never touch the field for 2 games on Saturday. He didn't look injured either. |
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SHoward
29 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2012 : 11:43:13
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| Not sure if this was related, but I heard ECB Diamondbacks forfeited a pool game this weekend. Not good for the ECB brand. |
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ecball
72 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2012 : 13:12:26
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Interesting topic as this is the biggest issue with travel ball today. I’ve been doing this longer than anyone in this age group and there are many reasons for it. The most obvious reason is the buying of players. There are one or two teams that get called out on it but it’s going on everywhere in this age group. I don’t think this stuff is going on at 11’s but we have some parents who are just dying to win. I can name 12+ kids that I know of that they haven’t paid a dime to play AND they didn’t the last year or the year before that. Parents of some of the better players are gaming the system and clearly taking advantage of coaches and parents that want to win that trophy. Can you blame them? If 10 coaches from ECB are calling, saying please come play for me and I will scholarship :) you, then who holds the power for that season? These parents can’t pay a dime to the team but they have two brand new bats, new shoes and can travel out of town for a $600 a weekend out of town trip. Then coaches can’t believe it when they leave them high and dry two months later. If you sell your sole and pay for kids you better win EVERY weekend or you will lose them because they have no skin in the game. I have some of the best players in the state and everyone pays the exact same amount. I’m not paying for any kid to come play for me! It’s 11 and 12 year old youth baseball. Seriously? I should get paid, not the other way around.
There are wayyy too many teams at this age and the head brass at ECB told teams to merge back in August but nobody listened. Now you have teams that can’t even field enough to play because kids have quit. Also, there are so many coaches and parents that have one goal – beat the Braves. I know it because every new kid I add each year says that’s all his former team talked about. Because of this attitude, coaches and parents sell their sole to try and compete for the top spot. The problem is that once you buy a kid, he has zero commitment and will leave as soon as he isn’t hitting 3rd and playing SS or your team isn’t playing on Sunday night. The top two teams in FL, aren’t even all from the same state, let alone the same area. All of those kids are bought and paid for and their rosters will be revolving doors every week because there is zero commitment. It’s very difficult to compete with teams that have bought the biggest and oldest kids in the country.
I predict this non-sense will stop at 13’s as parents and coaches aren’t going to pay for another kid to play on his son’s team and take away playing time AND then eventually quit in the middle of the season causing more issues. It doesn’t make any sense and yet we watch and know who is paying for who each weekend. It makes no sense – their child is sitting out while the kid(s) they bought are playing in his spot. It’s all out there as parents quit teams and then spill the dirt to the next team which is also why everyone knows who is who on this board. Each kid has to get ready for high school and sitting out (to win a $2 trophy) isn’t getting them ready. Coaches will get smarter and say, it’s $2,000 in Sept. and until you give me your money you aren’t on my team. Nobody leaves teams after they just paid $2,000. My favorite is when I hear the “shouldn’t we help out the less fortunate”. Really, is that what folks are doing – helping the less fortunate? Nobody is paying for the weaker players to play. It’s always the top players - always. Once I hear that a team is buying the bottom three kids on the roster, I will believe it’s for the good of society. Until then, it’s all about winning at all cost…
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Edited by - ecball on 03/26/2012 14:00:46 |
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Glenn Newton
57 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2012 : 13:34:24
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quote:
Originally posted by 1ballplayer
This topic strikes particularly close to home for us as we had to forfeit 2 games this weekend, our first pool play game and our second bracket game, because we were misled by a couple of parents. Although we confirmed their commitment to this tournament earlier in the week, they decided to go play for another team and did not even give us the courtesy of a phone call!
As a result, we are having an open tryout this week for anyone who wants to play on a good team doing everything we can to compete and have fun. See our post in the 12u tryout section for more details.
Mike Oliver
12u ECB Diamondbacks
these families should be banned from east cobb, that is a shame, their parents ego's cost the existing 7-8 players a chance to play baseball. Absolutley ridiculous. |
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ecball
72 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2012 : 14:20:50
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JMO - nobody was out recruiting at your tournament. That story is so far from reality that it's comical. An assistant coach was asked (by me) to go take a look at a kid who contacted me two weeks earlier about an open roster spot. That assistant never spoke to the kid or parent so if he was "recruiting" he is the worst of all time at it.
He went out to give a thumbs up or down as that kids dad called and asked that I come watch him play. Since that wasn't going to be a good idea, I sent someone else. I don't go watch games between other teams for that exact reason and have never met the dad or kid and have never even seen the kid play. I don't recruit (period). Never have and never will. Either a kid wants to play for me or they don't. The only thing I will do is post an opening and that's it. Those that want to try-out can call or email. |
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ballfan14
12 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2012 : 14:47:33
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Guys,
This has gone on for many years and will go on for many more until East Cobb decides to stop it. I firmly believe once you committ to a team at the beginning of the year, you stay until the end supporting that team as if you were part of the franchise. There are always exceptions, so develop a process to deal with them. I also believe, at East Cobb, that fellow teams should not be allowed to pick up each others players until the end of the season. It's just to easy to cut or bench a kid in hopes he will quit so you can go "steal/recruit" another teams player(s).
Has anyone stopped to think why it is so prevalent? It's because the system allows it to happen and sadly, even at this age, it's all about money and prestige. Structure drives behavior and the current structure needs to be changed. |
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doubleplay11
45 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2012 : 15:10:49
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| Sometimes the team or coach is not what it presented itself as and it is just not a good situation, you just gotta go. You sometimes sign up with a team and it is not what you thought it was. I know that is not what most are talking about here, but sometimes it is better to move on. |
Edited by - doubleplay11 on 03/26/2012 16:56:12 |
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ecball
72 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2012 : 15:39:51
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ballfan14 - I agree with a lot of what you are saying but the real issue is coaches and parents paying kids to begin with. If a parent has already paid $2,000 he isn't going anywhere. If you buy kids and you don't win, you should expect that it won't end well. Why not just make everyone pay the same amount? I know it's a crazy idea!I don't blame the parents one bit for getting paid - it's not their fault. It's the same argument that is made in college football when players get paid under the table. Why blame the kids if boosters (in this case coaches) are offering incentives. That's on the school or in this case the team - not the kids or parents.
I lost a kid a couple years back to a team that offered a free ride -I wasn't matching the deal. I said, if someone is crazy enough to pay me for my 10 year son to play, I may just hang em up and go on vacation. When I explain what goes on in travel ball to people outside of this they think it's absolutely nuts for someone to pay for an elementary school kid to play baseball. Sanity has long left travel baseball. The only reason kids get bought is because a parent or coach says, this one little Johnny can put us over the top and we will be the #1 team!!! It rarely, if ever, is a matter of financial hardship where a kid has to borrow a bat or a glove just to play. If parents can't afford it, then create payment plans but you have to get something up front.
This has been going on for years but to say that it's late March and a kid hasn't paid a dime and then blame the organization....That's a stretch. |
Edited by - ecball on 03/26/2012 16:56:41 |
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5220 Fans
112 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2012 : 15:56:13
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100% agree ECBall...Living in Northeast Florida I get to witness some of the sillyness you speak of in regards to one of the "hired gun" teams first hand. I cant wait till the kids move up to 13u and beyond. I really believe that the larger base paths, as well as larger fields will be a HUGE neutralizer. So to the "hired gun" teams and parents and espically coaches enjoy the (what?) maybe 10-15 dollar trophy. All will even out within the next year to 18 months.
quote:
Originally posted by ecball
Interesting topic as this is the biggest issue with travel ball today. I’ve been doing this longer than anyone in this age group and there are many reasons for it. The most obvious reason is the buying of players. There are one or two teams that get called out on it but it’s going on everywhere in this age group. I don’t think this stuff is going on at 11’s but we have some parents who are just dying to win. I can name 12+ kids that I know of that they haven’t paid a dime to play AND they didn’t the last year or the year before that. Parents of some of the better players are gaming the system and clearly taking advantage of coaches and parents that want to win that trophy. Can you blame them? If 10 coaches from ECB are calling, saying please come play for me and I will scholarship :) you, then who holds the power for that season? These parents can’t pay a dime to the team but they have two brand new bats, new shoes and can travel out of town for a $600 a weekend out of town trip. Then coaches can’t believe it when they leave them high and dry two months later. If you sell your sole and pay for kids you better win EVERY weekend or you will lose them because they have no skin in the game. I have some of the best players in the state and everyone pays the exact same amount. I’m not paying for any kid to come play for me! It’s 11 and 12 year old youth baseball. Seriously? I should get paid, not the other way around.
There are wayyy too many teams at this age and the head brass at ECB told teams to merge back in August but nobody listened. Now you have teams that can’t even field enough to play because kids have quit. Also, there are so many coaches and parents that have one goal – beat the Braves. I know it because every new kid I add each year says that’s all his former team talked about. Because of this attitude, coaches and parents sell their sole to try and compete for the top spot. The problem is that once you buy a kid, he has zero commitment and will leave as soon as he isn’t hitting 3rd and playing SS or your team isn’t playing on Sunday night. The top two teams in FL, aren’t even all from the same state, let alone the same area. All of those kids are bought and paid for and their rosters will be revolving doors every week because there is zero commitment. It’s very difficult to compete with teams that have bought the biggest and oldest kids in the country.
I predict this non-sense will stop at 13’s as parents and coaches aren’t going to pay for another kid to play on his son’s team and take away playing time AND then eventually quit in the middle of the season causing more issues. It doesn’t make any sense and yet we watch and know who is paying for who each weekend. It makes no sense – their child is sitting out while the kid(s) they bought are playing in his spot. It’s all out there as parents quit teams and then spill the dirt to the next team which is also why everyone knows who is who on this board. Each kid has to get ready for high school and sitting out (to win a $2 trophy) isn’t getting them ready. Coaches will get smarter and say, it’s $2,000 in Sept. and until you give me your money you aren’t on my team. Nobody leaves teams after they just paid $2,000. My favorite is when I hear the “shouldn’t we help out the less fortunate”. Really, is that what folks are doing – helping the less fortunate? Nobody is paying for the weaker players to play. It’s always the top players - always. Once I hear that a team is buying the bottom three kids on the roster, I will believe it’s for the good of society. Until then, it’s all about winning at all cost…
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tae281
447 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2012 : 15:57:26
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quote:
Originally posted by 1ballplayer
This topic strikes particularly close to home for us as we had to forfeit 2 games this weekend, our first pool play game and our second bracket game, because we were misled by a couple of parents. Although we confirmed their commitment to this tournament earlier in the week, they decided to go play for another team and did not even give us the courtesy of a phone call!
Mike Oliver
12u ECB Diamondbacks
Mike,
Sometimes a phone call to the previous coach can shed so much light into what you might be getting into, food for thought... |
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Bullpen@
21 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2012 : 16:02:53
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quote:
Originally posted by JMO
What I find bad for the ECB brand is the jumping from one ECB team to another ECB team. Especially when teams have to forfeit tournaments because of a few bad eggs.
All in the name of glory. I seen one of the top ECB teams coaches recruiting at our tournament this weekend.
How can the ECB brand let this happen. What makes it worse is that these supposed team jumpers have not payed a single dime because of tough times. What are you teaching your son, Winning is more important than your values.
ECB brand, please put a stop to this. Boot them out of ECB.
JMO, Of all people to comment. I guess jumping from a non-ECB team to one is fine. |
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JMO
174 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2012 : 17:18:38
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Bullpen
I am not going to Bash on the team I played for in the fall. I have respect for the coach there. I left at the conclusion of the fall season. I paid all my team dues. I will not go into why I left as to not bash the other team. I could have taken complete advantage of the situation. they had a pro coach, which I could have used his knowledge to advance my son's skills through the winter. I did not choose to do this because I did not want to leave them high and dry. I have more values then others. I gave them plenty of time to find a new player. I moved on in a proper way and can keep my head up high when I see them at tournaments. |
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stanlewis
545 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2012 : 17:20:46
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| Please discuss this in general and not let it turn into calling out teams, organizations, parents, etc. |
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BangTheBox
121 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2012 : 17:23:44
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5220 Fans
We are seeing it too in NE Fla and I assume in this age group is what you are referring to. It has crept into St. Johns as well. You are right next year will eliminate most of the hired gun syndrome. The nonstop recruiting is a big issue as well. At least EC can implement changes to stop it. We would have to run a few out of town to improve the overall outlook here.
quote:
Originally posted by 5220 Fans
100% agree ECBall...Living in Northeast Florida I get to witness some of the sillyness you speak of in regards to one of the "hired gun" teams first hand. I cant wait till the kids move up to 13u and beyond. I really believe that the larger base paths, as well as larger fields will be a HUGE neutralizer. So to the "hired gun" teams and parents and espically coaches enjoy the (what?) maybe 10-15 dollar trophy. All will even out within the next year to 18 months.
quote:
Originally posted by ecball
Interesting topic as this is the biggest issue with travel ball today. I’ve been doing this longer than anyone in this age group and there are many reasons for it. The most obvious reason is the buying of players. There are one or two teams that get called out on it but it’s going on everywhere in this age group. I don’t think this stuff is going on at 11’s but we have some parents who are just dying to win. I can name 12+ kids that I know of that they haven’t paid a dime to play AND they didn’t the last year or the year before that. Parents of some of the better players are gaming the system and clearly taking advantage of coaches and parents that want to win that trophy. Can you blame them? If 10 coaches from ECB are calling, saying please come play for me and I will scholarship :) you, then who holds the power for that season? These parents can’t pay a dime to the team but they have two brand new bats, new shoes and can travel out of town for a $600 a weekend out of town trip. Then coaches can’t believe it when they leave them high and dry two months later. If you sell your sole and pay for kids you better win EVERY weekend or you will lose them because they have no skin in the game. I have some of the best players in the state and everyone pays the exact same amount. I’m not paying for any kid to come play for me! It’s 11 and 12 year old youth baseball. Seriously? I should get paid, not the other way around.
There are wayyy too many teams at this age and the head brass at ECB told teams to merge back in August but nobody listened. Now you have teams that can’t even field enough to play because kids have quit. Also, there are so many coaches and parents that have one goal – beat the Braves. I know it because every new kid I add each year says that’s all his former team talked about. Because of this attitude, coaches and parents sell their sole to try and compete for the top spot. The problem is that once you buy a kid, he has zero commitment and will leave as soon as he isn’t hitting 3rd and playing SS or your team isn’t playing on Sunday night. The top two teams in FL, aren’t even all from the same state, let alone the same area. All of those kids are bought and paid for and their rosters will be revolving doors every week because there is zero commitment. It’s very difficult to compete with teams that have bought the biggest and oldest kids in the country.
I predict this non-sense will stop at 13’s as parents and coaches aren’t going to pay for another kid to play on his son’s team and take away playing time AND then eventually quit in the middle of the season causing more issues. It doesn’t make any sense and yet we watch and know who is paying for who each weekend. It makes no sense – their child is sitting out while the kid(s) they bought are playing in his spot. It’s all out there as parents quit teams and then spill the dirt to the next team which is also why everyone knows who is who on this board. Each kid has to get ready for high school and sitting out (to win a $2 trophy) isn’t getting them ready. Coaches will get smarter and say, it’s $2,000 in Sept. and until you give me your money you aren’t on my team. Nobody leaves teams after they just paid $2,000. My favorite is when I hear the “shouldn’t we help out the less fortunate”. Really, is that what folks are doing – helping the less fortunate? Nobody is paying for the weaker players to play. It’s always the top players - always. Once I hear that a team is buying the bottom three kids on the roster, I will believe it’s for the good of society. Until then, it’s all about winning at all cost…
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ecb7
100 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2012 : 17:33:46
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| Here is the reality of team jumping majority of times its not the Potential New Coach, or Player. 99% of the time it's the parents that are pushing and making these decisions for there son's. If there son is not batting 4th in the lineup and playing Shortstop every inning of every game and God Forbid you were to lose one game of course it's because lil Johnny batted 6th instead of 4th and the person playing his position made one error in 6 attempts. If we don't teach critical life skills to you kids such as sticking things out and working hard to get what you really want then we are just training a generation of quitters and somebody always looking for the easy way out of everything. Once parents realize its not all about living your dreams through your son or going to Disney for Elite 32 at all cost then some of this stuff may slow down. At 12U its all about development and getting ready for the big diamond were real baseball really starts. |
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outtahere14
2 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2012 : 17:40:25
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I think it is the right of the parent to decided whats best for thier kid from a coaching standpoint, every coach at east cobb differs in strategies to get the kids better in some way or another.
Kicking kids out of ECB for a decision that an adult makes is ridiculous.
I happen to know one of the Parents and Kid on the DBs,he had to leave his team in the fall which was a major team not because he had a problem with the coach or the team, but for reasons not baseball related.The kid is a great kid and very humble on and off the field, and could prob. start on anybodys team.I have followed the kid since lastyear, I talked to his dad everytime we are at the park. The guy was in an uncomfortable situation.He expressed how bad he felt,but at the end of the day we all make decisions for our kids, and it has to be a decision that you dont regret at the end of the year. Long Season!
A forfeit is not good, but when you loose a coach and his kid, and three or four kids hanging by a thread its time to meet with those families and see where they stand before loosing your teams money for a tournament.Honestly i agree with working thru adversity and i think parents should allow there kids to go thru some struggles but by all means if you dont think the program suites you or your child then its your right to protect your childs intrest.
If i eat at a restaurant and the foods not good, when i leave more than likely i dont return.
Does that mean that the next restaraunt should say you cant eat here cause you didnt like the way the food was
prepared at the other restaraunt, No you eat there, if you like it you return.
Why would a coach turn down talent,if there not on a team. |
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2012 : 17:40:36
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quote:
Originally posted by stanlewis
Please discuss this in general and not let it turn into calling out teams, organizations, parents, etc.
Stan, it is WAY more fun to read when it is personal.....JMO
Seriously, we have jumped off a team before due to the team performance(did it during the fall). But I don't feel like how the team was going to be coached or the talent level that was promised was really as promised. I think it can definately go both ways, coaches say A LOT of things to get a kid. Agree/Disagree on the money thing too, there are a few kids who I know for a fact couldn't afford to play at the top level and I think it is a good thing that those kids get helped out(some NOT ALL deserve it)....But as Mike said there are also TONS of kids who get a free ride that can afford it, just like there are a ton of kids who have freaking contracts regarding how you can treat their son and what positions he can play for how many innings per tourney etc etc etc....I also don't think for one second that the kids don't have any say in it, the kids know when the team they are on sucks...They know when they have no defense behind them and the team they are playing against is just killing them..So when that team comes calling they wanna make a change, not all kids but I don't think we can say that ALL kids wanna stay with their current team. Some kids wanna leave a great team and play for a team with almost no talent if that means they can play SS, and some parents think their child should be starting here or there and pitching here and hitting here. This problem will never go away and there is nothing people can do about it, many people are always looking for the bigger better deal and some find it and some never do. Beating the Braves is many teams #1 goal because you have been at the top for how many years now?? Consider it a compliment!! |
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Gwinnett
791 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2012 : 17:59:21
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You got that right!
quote:
Originally posted by ecball
Interesting topic as this is the biggest issue with travel ball today. I’ve been doing this longer than anyone in this age group and there are many reasons for it. The most obvious reason is the buying of players. There are one or two teams that get called out on it but it’s going on everywhere in this age group. I don’t think this stuff is going on at 11’s but we have some parents who are just dying to win. I can name 12+ kids that I know of that they haven’t paid a dime to play AND they didn’t the last year or the year before that. Parents of some of the better players are gaming the system and clearly taking advantage of coaches and parents that want to win that trophy. Can you blame them? If 10 coaches from ECB are calling, saying please come play for me and I will scholarship :) you, then who holds the power for that season? These parents can’t pay a dime to the team but they have two brand new bats, new shoes and can travel out of town for a $600 a weekend out of town trip. Then coaches can’t believe it when they leave them high and dry two months later. If you sell your sole and pay for kids you better win EVERY weekend or you will lose them because they have no skin in the game. I have some of the best players in the state and everyone pays the exact same amount. I’m not paying for any kid to come play for me! It’s 11 and 12 year old youth baseball. Seriously? I should get paid, not the other way around.
There are wayyy too many teams at this age and the head brass at ECB told teams to merge back in August but nobody listened. Now you have teams that can’t even field enough to play because kids have quit. Also, there are so many coaches and parents that have one goal – beat the Braves. I know it because every new kid I add each year says that’s all his former team talked about. Because of this attitude, coaches and parents sell their sole to try and compete for the top spot. The problem is that once you buy a kid, he has zero commitment and will leave as soon as he isn’t hitting 3rd and playing SS or your team isn’t playing on Sunday night. The top two teams in FL, aren’t even all from the same state, let alone the same area. All of those kids are bought and paid for and their rosters will be revolving doors every week because there is zero commitment. It’s very difficult to compete with teams that have bought the biggest and oldest kids in the country.
I predict this non-sense will stop at 13’s as parents and coaches aren’t going to pay for another kid to play on his son’s team and take away playing time AND then eventually quit in the middle of the season causing more issues. It doesn’t make any sense and yet we watch and know who is paying for who each weekend. It makes no sense – their child is sitting out while the kid(s) they bought are playing in his spot. It’s all out there as parents quit teams and then spill the dirt to the next team which is also why everyone knows who is who on this board. Each kid has to get ready for high school and sitting out (to win a $2 trophy) isn’t getting them ready. Coaches will get smarter and say, it’s $2,000 in Sept. and until you give me your money you aren’t on my team. Nobody leaves teams after they just paid $2,000. My favorite is when I hear the “shouldn’t we help out the less fortunate”. Really, is that what folks are doing – helping the less fortunate? Nobody is paying for the weaker players to play. It’s always the top players - always. Once I hear that a team is buying the bottom three kids on the roster, I will believe it’s for the good of society. Until then, it’s all about winning at all cost…
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5220 Fans
112 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2012 : 18:52:26
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I really like this part..... (see underline)
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Originally posted by BangTheBox
5220 Fans
We are seeing it too in NE Fla and I assume in this age group is what you are referring to. It has crept into St. Johns as well. You are right next year will eliminate most of the hired gun syndrome. The nonstop recruiting is a big issue as well. At least EC can implement changes to stop it. We would have to run a few out of town to improve the overall outlook here.
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Originally posted by 5220 Fans
100% agree ECBall...Living in Northeast Florida I get to witness some of the sillyness you speak of in regards to one of the "hired gun" teams first hand. I cant wait till the kids move up to 13u and beyond. I really believe that the larger base paths, as well as larger fields will be a HUGE neutralizer. So to the "hired gun" teams and parents and espically coaches enjoy the (what?) maybe 10-15 dollar trophy. All will even out within the next year to 18 months.
quote:
Originally posted by ecball
Interesting topic as this is the biggest issue with travel ball today. I’ve been doing this longer than anyone in this age group and there are many reasons for it. The most obvious reason is the buying of players. There are one or two teams that get called out on it but it’s going on everywhere in this age group. I don’t think this stuff is going on at 11’s but we have some parents who are just dying to win. I can name 12+ kids that I know of that they haven’t paid a dime to play AND they didn’t the last year or the year before that. Parents of some of the better players are gaming the system and clearly taking advantage of coaches and parents that want to win that trophy. Can you blame them? If 10 coaches from ECB are calling, saying please come play for me and I will scholarship :) you, then who holds the power for that season? These parents can’t pay a dime to the team but they have two brand new bats, new shoes and can travel out of town for a $600 a weekend out of town trip. Then coaches can’t believe it when they leave them high and dry two months later. If you sell your sole and pay for kids you better win EVERY weekend or you will lose them because they have no skin in the game. I have some of the best players in the state and everyone pays the exact same amount. I’m not paying for any kid to come play for me! It’s 11 and 12 year old youth baseball. Seriously? I should get paid, not the other way around.
There are wayyy too many teams at this age and the head brass at ECB told teams to merge back in August but nobody listened. Now you have teams that can’t even field enough to play because kids have quit. Also, there are so many coaches and parents that have one goal – beat the Braves. I know it because every new kid I add each year says that’s all his former team talked about. Because of this attitude, coaches and parents sell their sole to try and compete for the top spot. The problem is that once you buy a kid, he has zero commitment and will leave as soon as he isn’t hitting 3rd and playing SS or your team isn’t playing on Sunday night. The top two teams in FL, aren’t even all from the same state, let alone the same area. All of those kids are bought and paid for and their rosters will be revolving doors every week because there is zero commitment. It’s very difficult to compete with teams that have bought the biggest and oldest kids in the country.
I predict this non-sense will stop at 13’s as parents and coaches aren’t going to pay for another kid to play on his son’s team and take away playing time AND then eventually quit in the middle of the season causing more issues. It doesn’t make any sense and yet we watch and know who is paying for who each weekend. It makes no sense – their child is sitting out while the kid(s) they bought are playing in his spot. It’s all out there as parents quit teams and then spill the dirt to the next team which is also why everyone knows who is who on this board. Each kid has to get ready for high school and sitting out (to win a $2 trophy) isn’t getting them ready. Coaches will get smarter and say, it’s $2,000 in Sept. and until you give me your money you aren’t on my team. Nobody leaves teams after they just paid $2,000. My favorite is when I hear the “shouldn’t we help out the less fortunate”. Really, is that what folks are doing – helping the less fortunate? Nobody is paying for the weaker players to play. It’s always the top players - always. Once I hear that a team is buying the bottom three kids on the roster, I will believe it’s for the good of society. Until then, it’s all about winning at all cost…
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ballfan14
12 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2012 : 18:57:07
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ecball,
I think we are on the same page philosophically.......the paying delimma is part of the structure that I am talking about. As long as any organization allows that to happen, then it will happen. If the organization had rules against it, would it still happen? Yes, but not at e same rate. Structure drives behaviour! When teams want to win so bad, that they pay a kid to play on their team, it shows what their "morales" really are. I agree totally that no one has the money to pay for their kid to play, then walk after the season starts. That is unless they did not pay to start with.
One last comment......I would wager that NO (I really mean NO) top team is innocent here. It occurs at every age group. I bet they have all paid for players, trips or a combinations of both at some time or another. All of this, to win a 12u baseball game.........at the end of the day what is that teaching the kids? Nothing IMO.....except the wrong thing and inflates the egos of the parents even more an they already are. |
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BballNut
73 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2012 : 22:21:46
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A few things to consider:
1. Since when did wanting to beat a top team really become such a bad idea? If we don't aspire to get better, why are we in this?
2. Every team is not a good fit for every coach, child or parent? Sometimes that is figured out after commitment. It seems to be okay for a coach to make a decision contrary to the parent or child but not the parent. I see this as being no different than finding a new job. Who hasn't changed jobs and left a company that you "committed" to, because it was the right fit at the time? When that fit changes, for whatever reason, you usually are leaving your present company high and dry. The person complaining is usually the one on the bad side of the deal. It's life, and everyone gets to make decisions they feel are in their best interests - right, wrong or indifferent.
3. This whole notion that it's just about winning a $2 trophy really needs to stop. When that's the sole motivation, ANYONE can get sold out.
4. As a coach, are you any better by taking a kid that is currently on a team than the parent who leaves a team? Remember, unless you are getting the rec ball stud that has gone unnoticed or a new kid from out of town, you are getting a kid that is coming from another team, regardless of whether you recruited the player or he sought you out. Don't forget the goose and the gander.
5. Everyone spews this is about getting kids ready for high school. We have to honestly decide if we are doing this to really prepare kids for high school or if we are still doing this because somewhere along the way our desire to win overshadowed our motivation to teach baseball and life skills. If preparing kids for high school was really your motivation, 90% of what we see would not be going on. In addition, coaches would be more candid with parents, and parents would have more realistic expectations. I once spoke with a coach who said, "If every one of my kids who wants to play high school baseball isn't able to make his team, then I have failed". Now maybe this is an aggressive and overly optimistic viewpoint, but I've watched this coach in action and while he likes to win, he is truly "coaching" his kids both on and off the field. This is what it should be about at 12. |
Edited by - BballNut on 03/27/2012 08:48:00 |
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