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mstimpson
57 Posts |
 Posted - 03/20/2012 : 09:14:44
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Hey all! Have a little extra time on my hands the last couple of days , so thought I'd throw out a few post. There has been a lot of talk lately of 12U kids throwing 70+. Let me state that I am not dispelling any of these claims, but I just do not recall this coming up last year, so I pose the question! How is this happening?
- Are these the post puberty boys?
- Have mechanics improved since last year?
- How accurate are the guns? Are we talking out of the hand or when the ball reaches the plate?
Again, like I said, I am not saying this information is false. I just never saw this much on the 12U site last year or on the 11U site as well. Starting to seem that it is common place for a team to have a couple of flame throwers on their teams.
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Edited by - mstimpson on 03/20/2012 09:16:23 |
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ecb7
100 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2012 : 11:22:37
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| I've seen or played against almost every elite team from Georgia and Nobody in my opinion throws mid 70's. It's kind of like hearing about that elite football player that runs the 40 in 4.2 then get to the combine and runs a 4.5. I knew Dontrelle Willis when he was 12 years old and he could throw it that hard but that dude was a freak at 12. |
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Gwinnett
791 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2012 : 11:44:40
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| What's interesting is someone posted they clocked the 11u kids at upto 72 mph on four different pitchers. It was also said that the 11u kids were pitching faster than the 12u.....lol. Please. Get real. |
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ecb7
100 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2012 : 12:29:17
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| Clocking Kids on your Iphone or Android App doesn't Count for legit Speed... |
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prestont
197 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2012 : 12:45:57
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I'm interested to hear some of the comments here.
Pitchers job is to..... get outs 
It was fun watching some of the kids throw smoke this past weekend. The kid from NJ who plays on the Central Florida Gators looked good. Much better control than when we saw him last summer in Myrtle Beach. Bringing the heat, and hitting spots at this age is fun to watch.
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Edited by - prestont on 03/20/2012 14:37:23 |
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FLABB
183 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2012 : 12:57:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Gwinnett
What's interesting is someone posted they clocked the 11u kids at upto 72 mph on four different pitchers. It was also said that the 11u kids were pitching faster than the 12u.....lol. Please. Get real.
Yes probably using a radar gun from the local hardware store. Need to use a pro calibrated type gun. Mid 60s is common at this age then one can start checking Birth Certs if they get into the 70s. Not to mention the stress on young arms. It is the kid that throws in the 50s with great command that should stike fear in the hearts of coaches! |
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Jacked-up
59 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2012 : 13:16:02
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I can personally verify that I have gunned a 12U player at 72MPH. Used a bushnell radar gun. I have used it side-by-side w/ expensive ones and it degrades at the higher speeds. I am pretty comfortable w/ it in the 60s...So his speed was probably a few mph faster...
I also recall gunning a kid from Miami a few years back at 74MPH...12U Pony tournament... |
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peashooter
297 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2012 : 13:20:23
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Have you seen some of the 12U kids...6'2" 200 lbs.... Just saying. Don't forget there is a HUGE difference between max velocity and average velocity. Don't get hung up. Especially at the 15-18 age groups. When we charted games, we would track every pitch and velocity. Just because a guy hit 95 2X a game, he may be 91-92 the rest of the game.
ECB should have a skills challenge at the next tournament. $10 a head and you enter the velocity challenge 10 pitches, trophies for 1-3rd place. That would be cool! While at it lets have a coaches velocity challenge too! Frank Wren doesn't return my calls! haha |
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sgates
48 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2012 : 13:49:40
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IMO, the last 12yo to hit the mid-high 70's on a true jugs gun, not a $100 bushnell gun, is the Bandit that was the National Player of the year last year. The closest it gets at our age level to this player is the former Grasshoper, now Gator. They are on a level like no other as far as speed.
You're correct ecb7, I hear the 4.3-4.4 talk all the time, once you put a real timer on them, 4.6-4.7 becomes the reality and the excuses start. It may look 75 because its from 50', but my guess at the end of the day, on a true jugs gun, high 60's. Is high 60's fast for 12u, Of course it is, especially from 50'.
I wish somebody with a true calibrated jugs gun would show up to the BOTS and show the difference between reality and wishful thinking, heck I may go buy one for fun! Ha! |
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T13
257 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2012 : 13:55:42
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| Kids in the little league world series were throwing upper 70's according to ESPN (and according to many on this board these kids would get rocked in travel ball?).....so it doesn't surprise me if some 12 year olds who are probably hitting puberty are reaching that speed.... |
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ecb7
100 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2012 : 15:26:24
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| We need not to get so caught up in how hard a kid throws at 12 anyways. Pitching is Really about Deception, Location, Movement, and knowing the weaknesses of your opponent. Ask any Pro Ball Player they will rather go against a guy that throw 95 mph with no movement then a guy with tons of movement but his best fastball might be 88 mph ie. Greg Maddax. Dusty Baker is a life long friend of my family and he always tells me there are tons of guys that throw in the 90's in there farm system that will never make it because they don't have the previous mentioned items that are vital to become a successful pitcher at any level. |
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ranger32
13 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2012 : 15:31:56
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| i think the kids at the LLWS are on a 46 foot mound and not 50. |
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rippit
667 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2012 : 15:32:49
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quote:
Originally posted by T13
Kids in the little league world series were throwing upper 70's according to ESPN (and according to many on this board these kids would get rocked in travel ball?).....so it doesn't surprise me if some 12 year olds who are probably hitting puberty are reaching that speed....
There were at least 2 kids from WR clocked by ESPN hitting actual speeds of 75-78. Both do very well at the 14UAAA or Major level currently although they haven't turned 14 yet.
Don't remember seeing anyone say those particular kids would get rocked in travel ball. From watching some of the games at the state level, there were a few players from each team rounding out the rosters that might struggle a bit jumping from a postage stamp field to regulation size. BUT, pretty sure they'll be okay after a period of adjustment. |
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sgates
48 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2012 : 23:10:34
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While at it lets have a coaches velocity challenge too! [/quote]
My $$$ would be on Hoss |
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peashooter
297 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2012 : 08:42:24
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| I will take the Hoss bet! (stretching out the noodle now) haha |
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mstimpson
57 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2012 : 09:27:18
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quote:
Originally posted by sgates
While at it lets have a coaches velocity challenge too!
My $$$ would be on Hoss
[/quote]
C'mon coach! Hoss may get me on the nasty, but I can run that thing up there with the best of them ! (for one pitch then call the paramedics)! |
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BangTheBox
121 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2012 : 10:18:17
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ecb7 thank you for that.
Our team is blessed with a solid group of kids that want to take the bump.
Our team has one true pitcher who understands the game and situations. He does not throw hard maybe 50-55 with 8 mph off his change up. I have a gaggle of throwers who throw harder at approximately 60 with them reaching 65 or so when they rear back and bring it. Problem is that the throwers lack the control and spot location. Of course we are working with that weekly and they are improving. Our main slower pitcher has thrown agains elite and mid level major teams (we are AAA) and shut them down for the duration. Of course he makes mistakes but I would put him up against any lineup out there. Many times our flame throwers get rocked due to the grooved fastball and on the second go around with the lineup they struggle.
Mind you we have a no curve rule and we lose a bunch because of it. Many dads tell me their kid can throw the hook and I say that is great when you play catch with them. Our ace relies on fastball, change and knuckle occasionally and does just fine. We are not out to win the Elite just to develop our boys and implement a few upsets along the way.
quote:
Originally posted by ecb7
We need not to get so caught up in how hard a kid throws at 12 anyways. Pitching is Really about Deception, Location, Movement, and knowing the weaknesses of your opponent. Ask any Pro Ball Player they will rather go against a guy that throw 95 mph with no movement then a guy with tons of movement but his best fastball might be 88 mph ie. Greg Maddax. Dusty Baker is a life long friend of my family and he always tells me there are tons of guys that throw in the 90's in there farm system that will never make it because they don't have the previous mentioned items that are vital to become a successful pitcher at any level.
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Flatbat22
18 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2012 : 15:25:09
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| Stalker radar guns record the ball out of the hand. It doesn't matter what distance it is from. Obviously, on the shorter distance it plays harder, but it has no effect on the speed of the ball out of the hand. Most all stalker guns have the ability to record both out of the hand and speed when it reaches the catcher. Pro scouts use the recording out of the hand. |
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11UFAN
149 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2012 : 21:03:14
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quote:
Originally posted by mstimpson
quote:
Originally posted by sgates
While at it lets have a coaches velocity challenge too!
My $$$ would be on Hoss
C'mon coach! Hoss may get me on the nasty, but I can run that thing up there with the best of them! (for one pitch then call the paramedics)!
[/quote]
I will definitely take Hoss, average for 5 pitches. I'll even give 2 to 1 odds. |
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peashooter
297 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2012 : 19:12:26
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mstimpson
After today, I think I might have a few backers...haha! |
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peashooter
297 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2012 : 19:14:34
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11UFAN
2-1 odds, 5 pitches...What's the max bet? I am in...set it up. I will come to EC |
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ddb
1 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2012 : 21:33:35
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Hi,
In North Carolina, the Dirtbags have at least 2 kids hitting 70 mph measured crossing the plate. The Fayetteville Elite Generals Nationals have a kid consistently hitting 70 mph. NC Indians also have a kid hitting 70 mph. I have seen dozens of kids pitching 63-67 range. Most are big kids with big frames and hitting puberty early.
Thanks
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ivpartner
80 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2012 : 16:22:38
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| We played the Little Caesars Orange 12U- MICH team in the ATL Super NIT a few weeks ago. Using a Pocket Radar, I clocked their top pitcher consistently 70-72 and he hit 75-76 twice and I didn't clock all of his pitches. The kid looked sixteen but wasn't a overly huge kid but boy could he bring it. All of the parents thought that the mound must have been setup at 46' vs. 50' because the ball got to the plate sooooo quick. I have clocked several kids in ECB tournaments hitting 70 on their 4 seam fast ball this year, BUT nobody that hit this kids velocity. |
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Braves2018
1 Posts |
Posted - 04/05/2012 : 09:48:05
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| We've had a few of these 70+ mph guys come through our Richmond Braves organization the past few years, including two this year so we know what to expect and what we've found is that most of the time the numbers are inflated as some of you have already said/seen. Most of the people out bragging on the velocities are the same guys who ask how fast they throw on 60 feet versus 50 feet so you take it with a grain of salt. With that being said though it's not uncommon anymore. We saw the GA Bandits/MBA Pride kids last year throw legit 80 mph by summer on the top end, and our own shortstop who has hit 77 mph already this year. We also saw the Dirtbag/Gator in question hit 74 as well. As fast as that is to someone's point earlier they still need their secondary pitches to have success against the strong teams, but 70+ does get on you quick at 50 feet. From what I've seen though 95% of the kids who throw that hard also know how to pitch and have developed the other pitches as well. |
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Calif_Baseball
292 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2012 : 20:57:09
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quote:
Originally posted by T13
Kids in the little league world series were throwing upper 70's according to ESPN (and according to many on this board these kids would get rocked in travel ball?).....so it doesn't surprise me if some 12 year olds who are probably hitting puberty are reaching that speed....
Funny how most think they would Rock those boys from the LLWS. Do you think they don't play travel? I know because all of them I have known since birth.#24 is my sons best friend and he threw mid 70's at the LLWS for Ocean View LL In Huntington Beach. He throws in the 80's now at 13. The Pitcher for Mexico that was hitting 78 mph plays for the SD Stars now with So Cal Angels with Nick Allen. Most of our boys have been playing 14's on the big field, So you don't hear a lot about them. As far as the 11's LOL I went to the elites last year and there was NOBODY in 10's that was even close to high 60's. I know all the boys on that Fla Team they are talking about and most throw in the Mid to High 60.
To answer your question....YES there are a lot of 12 year olds that throw in the 70's and not if any in 11. |
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BangTheBox
121 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2012 : 10:15:58
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Velocity is overrated. If you cannot command the fast ball your done. Look at Darvish last night.
These kids have hit pueberty early. My sons best friends dad is an Ortho and warns us constantly.
quote:
Originally posted by Calif_Baseball
quote:
Originally posted by T13
Kids in the little league world series were throwing upper 70's according to ESPN (and according to many on this board these kids would get rocked in travel ball?).....so it doesn't surprise me if some 12 year olds who are probably hitting puberty are reaching that speed....
Funny how most think they would Rock those boys from the LLWS. Do you think they don't play travel? I know because all of them I have known since birth.#24 is my sons best friend and he threw mid 70's at the LLWS for Ocean View LL In Huntington Beach. He throws in the 80's now at 13. The Pitcher for Mexico that was hitting 78 mph plays for the SD Stars now with So Cal Angels with Nick Allen. Most of our boys have been playing 14's on the big field, So you don't hear a lot about them. As far as the 11's LOL I went to the elites last year and there was NOBODY in 10's that was even close to high 60's. I know all the boys on that Fla Team they are talking about and most throw in the Mid to High 60.
To answer your question....YES there are a lot of 12 year olds that throw in the 70's and not if any in 11.
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