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nscuda01
47 Posts |
 Posted - 02/21/2012 : 10:09:16
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What are the standard guidelines for recruiting? What are the unwritten rules and the ones that are broken the most? Is it ok for a coach to go after kids mid season?
We see alot of it all the time and then the coaches lie and blame it on the parents approaching them. |
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sgates
48 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2012 : 13:28:16
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| I have relationships with several coaches that do it the right way and actually give the other guy a call and ask the question, "Hey, I sure could use X for next year do you have intentions of releasing him?" Then there are guys out there that will Tonya Harding you in a second and degrade you personnally, your team and your coaching staff. Its part of process that we all deal with every off season and during the season. To each his own though, who am I to judge how somebody else runs their team, I worry about mine and let the chips fall where they may. But to answer your question, Meyer and Kiffin have nothing on some of these guys around here! |
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bbjunkie
38 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2012 : 14:00:19
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| I am conflicted over this. I think it is probably okay as long as the parents/kids are not approached at the park. If a coach can get their number and call them to see if they have any interest it should not be a big deal. It is ultimately on the parent to make the decision to jump ship. However, I would probably be upset if someone did it to our team. This is not something we do. I think the ultimate question is why are you looking for someone mid season. If it is because of injury or a player left the team then you owe it to the team to find a quality replacement which means they are probably already on another team. But if you are looking to replace players on your team due to performance, etc then it is ridiculous to me at 12 years old. It also drives me crazy when coaches bring in outside players to play these big tournaments and sit some of the kids that have been there the whole year. That tells me immediately that it is not about the kids but the coach's ego. |
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in_the_know
985 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2012 : 18:03:58
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I'm not clear on your question. As written, it sounds like you're asking if it's alright for a coach to try and poach a kid from another team DURING the current season (i.e., leave your current team now for my team). If that's your question, then that is totally out of bounds. It's wrong on every level. Honestly, I wouldn't want to play for a team that shows no loyalty at all. It will only be a matter of time before you're being displaced for his next poach.
If your question is related to recruiting in mid-season for the next year, then I agree with junkie's approach. Not at the park.
IMHO, the best recruiting tool any coach can use is to carry himself professionally at all times. Coach your team well, have high standards for yourself, your players and your parents. Lead by example. Do that and the families and players worth having will be tripping over themselves to get on your team next year. |
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BangTheBox
121 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2012 : 18:39:06
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Amen to that. We have a few here in Northeast and Central Fla. And one takes the cake and attempts to plant seeds and poach while kids are on the field in the game. He did it this weekend at a tourney.
In the know you hit it on the head in that these egocentric coaches will eventually displace kid and family when the next 12u A Rod comes along.
quote:
Originally posted by sgates
I have relationships with several coaches that do it the right way and actually give the other guy a call and ask the question, "Hey, I sure could use X for next year do you have intentions of releasing him?" Then there are guys out there that will Tonya Harding you in a second and degrade you personnally, your team and your coaching staff. Its part of process that we all deal with every off season and during the season. To each his own though, who am I to judge how somebody else runs their team, I worry about mine and let the chips fall where they may. But to answer your question, Meyer and Kiffin have nothing on some of these guys around here!
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peashooter
297 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2012 : 17:02:20
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I have already seen it this year. Pretty lame when a coach approaches a parent on your team asking for a phone number. Clearly they are in it to "Coach" their players versus winning, NOT!
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BangTheBox
121 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2012 : 22:25:55
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Funny thing is that many of these coach types we see are above average to great coaches or appear to be due to the talent pool they assemble. For the most part they are composed of paid coaches. Many parents feel that they are on a money and/or ego grab. There needs to be a line drawn in the clay and unfortunately many of the above mentioned coaches just do not get it and continue to recruit when they should stand pat.
quote:
Originally posted by peashooter
I have already seen it this year. Pretty lame when a coach approaches a parent on your team asking for a phone number. Clearly they are in it to "Coach" their players versus winning, NOT!
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Edited by - BangTheBox on 02/23/2012 07:23:01 |
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bbjunkie
38 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2012 : 08:53:13
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| I think most of us agree that some of the tactics these coaches use are ridiculous for 12 yr old baseball. However, lets not lose sight of who is ultimately responsible for this (the parents). I understand the parent in a bad situation because of personality issues, etc trying to get out but a lot of times they are trying to move their kid on to bigger and better things instead of playing with their friends at their home parks. I promise the team you play for at 11 and 12 yrs old will have nothing to do with a kids ability to play HS baseball, get a scholarship or getting drafted 6-8 years from now. All we should be worried about at this age is making sure they are getting quality coaching and they are having fun playing baseball. |
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Outtahere
43 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2012 : 11:43:39
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| As a parent I am looking for a role model not just a coach. We watched our current coach last season and was impressed with the integrity and the way he talked to the kids and other parents. We should be careful of who gets to influence our kids. They get enough bad. |
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FLABB
183 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2012 : 14:55:53
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| At the Ocala tourney last weekend there were a few expletives being thrown around from coaches the youth ages to the older ages. We do not need competitive coaches acting like they were raised in the streets with a street lingo! i do not understand how parents can put up with that. Many just shrug becasue the team is above average etc. Sad. |
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BangTheBox
121 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2012 : 09:30:46
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Junkie
Beautiful post. You said it all in a few sentences. Just as in 6-8 years from now we do not know what will happen. Players being pigeon held at one position on many teams hurts their development. Also two articles I recently read state that all the one sport specialization is causing overuse injury to your 12 yr olds and takes the fun out of it eventually. Also, an article of pro athletes' states that they played multiple sports and they attribute that to their athleticism.
Let the recruiters recruit and laugh as their roster will revolve like boys at an old fashioned kissing booth.
quote:
Originally posted by bbjunkie
I think most of us agree that some of the tactics these coaches use are ridiculous for 12 yr old baseball. However, lets not lose sight of who is ultimately responsible for this (the parents). I understand the parent in a bad situation because of personality issues, etc trying to get out but a lot of times they are trying to move their kid on to bigger and better things instead of playing with their friends at their home parks. I promise the team you play for at 11 and 12 yrs old will have nothing to do with a kids ability to play HS baseball, get a scholarship or getting drafted 6-8 years from now. All we should be worried about at this age is making sure they are getting quality coaching and they are having fun playing baseball.
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Edited by - BangTheBox on 02/24/2012 09:44:08 |
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peashooter
297 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2012 : 10:42:55
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| As a coach, I have been disappointed with my peers. I have had many coaches reach out to my parents trying to steal kids. I will begin to list these coaches and teams to help parents out there know the motivations of teams. Win at all costs versus coaching. One thing I would never do is approach a kid on another team, asking them to leave, or approach their parents asking them to leave. |
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bbjunkie
38 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2012 : 11:21:23
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I think there is a pretty clear line here. If a team is just looking to upgrade a player and drop another then that is a problem. You made the choice to pick him up and you need to stick with it. However, there are a lot of teams out there that still need to fill spots because of kids leaving for a variety of reasons or they just never filled the roster during tryouts. Of course at that point coaches are going to look for kids to fill the spots.
Now peashooter if you know someone is doing the first part than yes they obviously have a win at all costs approach. If a team is part of the second group I am not sure how that has anything to do with win at all costs vs coaching.
As I stated before the parents are huge in this. No one can "steal" a player. It has to be a parents decision to move on to another option whether for the right or wrong reason.
quote:
Originally posted by peashooter
As a coach, I have been disappointed with my peers. I have had many coaches reach out to my parents trying to steal kids. I will begin to list these coaches and teams to help parents out there know the motivations of teams. Win at all costs versus coaching. One thing I would never do is approach a kid on another team, asking them to leave, or approach their parents asking them to leave.
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BB301
24 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2012 : 11:29:16
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quote:
Originally posted by peashooter
As a coach, I have been disappointed with my peers. I have had many coaches reach out to my parents trying to steal kids. I will begin to list these coaches and teams to help parents out there know the motivations of teams. Win at all costs versus coaching. One thing I would never do is approach a kid on another team, asking them to leave, or approach their parents asking them to leave.
How do you deal with it if a parent of a kid on another team approaches you? This happens quite frequently. It can get misinterpreted as a coach recruiting that player when in fact the coach was the one that was approached. I am in the camp of playing with the kids that you started the season with. Circumstances may require that you add someone along the way, but that should be the exception instead of the rule. |
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Catch3dad
90 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2012 : 12:03:30
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quote:
Originally posted by peashooter
As a coach, I have been disappointed with my peers. I have had many coaches reach out to my parents trying to steal kids. I will begin to list these coaches and teams to help parents out there know the motivations of teams. Win at all costs versus coaching. One thing I would never do is approach a kid on another team, asking them to leave, or approach their parents asking them to leave.
Shooter, not sure of the circumstances regarding coaches talking to your players or their parents but "stealing" kids are pretty strong words.
IMO if a coach makes a casual inquiry about a player, its not a big deal. If they aren't interested they say so.
When a coach is extremely aggressive and wont take no for an answer, is disparaging the current coach, brings in new and different players every chance he gets then word gets out. Travel baseball is a small world. Players and families will learn to stay away. No need to name names. (Plus don't think Stan would never go for it )
One other point. If a coach is trying to improve his team by getting stronger players or players that fill a need, he is not necessary a "win at all cost" guy. If you are only looking to coach kids and trying to make them better, why hold a tryout? Just let the first 12 that pay their money be on the team. Helping a team and players get better means getting better players on the team. Battle for playing time. Trying to move up in the line up, Etc. Many of us will agree that there are too many teams in the 12u age group. If a player or two from one team joins another team, that may actually be an overall win for the players.
Again JMHO |
Edited by - Catch3dad on 03/09/2012 12:09:09 |
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peashooter
297 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2012 : 12:22:53
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If you want players, all you have to do is post here. This site gets tremendous traffic. If a kid on a team was looking to move, they will reach out to you. This is not 1995 and you have to call people. Calling other teams players is attempting to steal kids in my opinion, why else would you do it? I get it baseball has become nothing more than a huge recruiting effort even at the 9U level. It drives me nuts, and it is NOT why I coach.
On the tryout front, I hold tryouts to see a kids makeup. Is he having fun, can he listen to instruction, what are the parents like, are they in baseball for the right reasons. I am sure most all other coaches use it as a pure talent play. I do not. I look for kids who love the game, smile, listen, and want to get better. I didn't invite back many good players who I thought were in it for the wrong reasons. Then I look for kids with RAW talent that I can hopefully make better. Once again, as I tell my parents. I want to see their kids playing in HS and think that I helped get them there.
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bbjunkie
38 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2012 : 12:33:59
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Catch3,
I agree completely. I was only referring to a coach dropping a player during the current year to pick someone else up that is better. If you held the tryout and picked the kid then stick with him through the year. The end of each season is another story. I think we are on the same page but maybe I wasn't clear in my last post.
quote:
Originally posted by Catch3dad
quote:
Originally posted by peashooter
As a coach, I have been disappointed with my peers. I have had many coaches reach out to my parents trying to steal kids. I will begin to list these coaches and teams to help parents out there know the motivations of teams. Win at all costs versus coaching. One thing I would never do is approach a kid on another team, asking them to leave, or approach their parents asking them to leave.
Shooter, not sure of the circumstances regarding coaches talking to your players or their parents but "stealing" kids are pretty strong words.
IMO if a coach makes a casual inquiry about a player, its not a big deal. If they aren't interested they say so.
When a coach is extremely aggressive and wont take no for an answer, is disparaging the current coach, brings in new and different players every chance he gets then word gets out. Travel baseball is a small world. Players and families will learn to stay away. No need to name names. (Plus don't think Stan would never go for it)
One other point. If a coach is trying to improve his team by getting stronger players or players that fill a need, he is not necessary a "win at all cost" guy. If you are only looking to coach kids and trying to make them better, why hold a tryout? Just let the first 12 that pay their money be on the team. Helping a team and players get better means getting better players on the team. Battle for playing time. Trying to move up in the line up, Etc. Many of us will agree that there are too many teams in the 12u age group. If a player or two from one team joins another team, that may actually be an overall win for the players.
Again JMHO
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nscuda01
47 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2012 : 13:05:11
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Peashooter: I agree. Those in Lake City this weekend better hide the women and children because Team TPX will have the hooks out and by the time it is over will have a retooled team with all the best Maj Talent including team Fla. and the stealth and cent fla gators. By the time it is over they will have a baseball farm system.
quote:
Originally posted by peashooter
As a coach, I have been disappointed with my peers. I have had many coaches reach out to my parents trying to steal kids. I will begin to list these coaches and teams to help parents out there know the motivations of teams. Win at all costs versus coaching. One thing I would never do is approach a kid on another team, asking them to leave, or approach their parents asking them to leave.
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ONE WAY
48 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2012 : 15:22:46
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| Can someone tell me the reason why kids/parents play. Some kids/family's play for other reason. I know it does not matter but I played DIV1 major college basketball, I could dunk in the 7th grade I had college coaches talking to me and my mon at 12yrs old not high school coaches college coaches. As a JR.I tore up my knee so bad I never played again but basketball paid my why through school. How can you tell a kid/parent not to go for something. Some of use donot have an open check book to pay for our child's playing time. Their are a lot of parents that say LET BASEBALL PAY FOR COLLEGE. When do you start thinking that way? I have no idea. Like I said for me it was 7th grade and if you think people are not looking at kids at this age WAKE UP THEY ARE. So why are they playing travel baseball for fun or for the long term. THe kid's/parents for different reason.I AM NOT MAD AT YOU for what ever reason they do!!!!!!!!!! |
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FLABB
183 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2012 : 15:44:00
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There are very few Div One full rides and the smaller schools have ev en fewer. An average player with great grades stands a better chance of getting a fully compensated college education and the chance to play some ball at the same time.
quote:
Originally posted by ONE WAY
Can someone tell me the reason why kids/parents play. Some kids/family's play for other reason. I know it does not matter but I played DIV1 major college basketball, I could dunk in the 7th grade I had college coaches talking to me and my mon at 12yrs old not high school coaches college coaches. As a JR.I tore up my knee so bad I never played again but basketball paid my why through school. How can you tell a kid/parent not to go for something. Some of use donot have an open check book to pay for our child's playing time. Their are a lot of parents that say LET BASEBALL PAY FOR COLLEGE. When do you start thinking that way? I have no idea. Like I said for me it was 7th grade and if you think people are not looking at kids at this age WAKE UP THEY ARE. So why are they playing travel baseball for fun or for the long term. THe kid's/parents for different reason.I AM NOT MAD AT YOU for what ever reason they do!!!!!!!!!!
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Edited by - FLABB on 03/09/2012 18:43:15 |
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2012 : 15:47:41
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| You think there are college/pro recruiters/scouts looking at 12yr olds??? |
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rakin
32 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2012 : 19:18:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Spartan4
You think there are college/pro recruiters/scouts looking at 12yr olds???
I agree with you Spartan4! I think the thread has been highjacked! ONEWAY, I hope you mean other coaches are watching? There are no college, high school or pro coaches looking at these boys for baseball. Now, if you are dunking in the 7th grade. heck yes, someone should be looking at you! How many people dunk in 7th grade? How many of us know a slick fielding, flame throwing, fleet footed, power hitting 12-13 year old? I know quite a few. Until college baseball brings in the big money like college basketball, no 12-13 year olds getting recruited. Sorry parents! |
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