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moss21
54 Posts |
 Posted - 06/07/2011 : 16:32:15
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I know that the people from USSSA reads this site all the time. So I think that they need to post what the rules say and how they are going to handle the situation. I have talked to teams in all age groups that are in the same fix that we are in.
It's funny a year ago Papa is on this site bashing USSSA and now he is on here begging them to change the rules just for him. I agree that they are the top 12 old team around here, but like Mr. Smith asked me, whenever you set your tournaments up for the year why didn't you circle the week of the USSSA state championship? Because the only way your team can play in a USSSA World Series is you have to play in the Ga.Championship and only in your age division.
All I can say is what fair for one team is fair for all. |
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longball1
34 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2011 : 19:55:13
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| Moss21, has your team traveled to five different states playing in USSSA super NIT's???? Have you guys ever won a Super NIT in your on state? I believe that there is a much different sitiuation here than what you are describing. Please don't try to hitch your wagon on what someone else trying to do, when you have not gone the extra mile like the Bandits, to work this out. |
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TAZ980002
831 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2011 : 21:33:36
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Moss, not sure what you are trying to accomplish here but the Bandits are not asking for the rules to be changed or broken. USSSA has the option of granting special exemptions to this rule and that is what we are asking them to do.
We will continue to pray for your injured players. We hope that they are recovering quickly. |
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Braves2017
7 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2011 : 10:33:52
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We respect the Bandits wish to negotiate in private but I couldn't help posting our support. The Richmond Braves National are a USSSA-first organization because of our admiration for what USSSA has built in the Elite 32(the only true non "pay to play" national championship)....and we are in this for the competition!
USSSA - The 2011 Georgia Bandits 12U are what the Elite 32 is all about. 5 Super NIT's (including GA) and all they get for it is the opportunity to lock horns with the rest of the country in what is truly the most competitive national event. Please resist the pull of buearocracy and do the right thing for USSSA, the majority of their Elite 32 competitors (we cant wait to play them - ok, in pool play or the final only ), and the 12 boys and their families who have pursued excellence with a vengance for an entire year. Please dont let some baseless technicality decide the end of their journey. Let the boys decide that for themselves.....they have earned it!
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PANNI
30 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2011 : 12:10:54
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BH, I am hoping for the best for the Bandits as we all know that if the Bandits are not allowed to participate, then this will not be a true National Championship. We also made the argument last year that we won 4 Super NITs and played almost exclusively USSSA tournaments. We were told there were no options available other than to play in your state tourn. We will be in the situation next week that we have to play in a state tourn to qualify. This tourn has 4 teams as of now. What if it doesn't make or gets rained out. Are we out too?? We have a tourn locally the same week that has 12+ teams that would allow each family to save money, probably in the range of $500-700 per family. We asked the USSSA state director if we could pay the entry fee, forfiet, etc and were told this would not qualify us for Disney. No exceptions, the rules are the rules. Alos, last year, we checked each team at the 11U Elite 32 and if my memory serves me correctly, every team did participate in their state tourn.
Now that being said, I would think exceptions would apply to state tourns. that do not make or get rained out. Also, possibly documented multiple injuries to a team. If your team has injuries to multiple players and were unable to put enough players on the field, this could be an exception. But a scheduling conflict?? This is a tough one. Maybe USSSA could show a little love and appreciation to the Bandits and reschedule the GA State tourn for the following week.
My recommendation for next year?? We call a coaches conference and let USSSA know that unless the rules are changed to something more agreeable, we would all boycott this org. and look elsewhere. Amazing how capitalism works and strength in numbers. Someone would be more than happy to take their place. My thought, after you win one Super NIT, if you are fortunate enough to win a 2nd, this would exempt your team from the state tourn. Or you could compete at a state tourn in the state you won the Super NIT and / or be able to compete in a higher age division to qualify.
My thought here is USSSA will make arrangements to make this happen as they should, but these arrangements should be permanent for ALL teams in the future. Good Luck in Cooperstown and we look forward to seeing you guys in Orlando.
quote:
Originally posted by Bandit_Hawk
Moss, not sure what you are trying to accomplish here but the Bandits are not asking for the rules to be changed or broken. USSSA has the option of granting special exemptions to this rule and that is what we are asking them to do.
We will continue to pray for your injured players. We hope that they are recovering quickly.
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baseball papa
123 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2011 : 12:44:46
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| Thank you so much Braves 2017. Papa was going to keep his mouth shut on this one until the proper channels had been followed but I can't help but to let you know how much we respect your great team and how much we appreciate your support. |
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TAZ980002
831 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2011 : 13:57:26
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I've said in another post that this is an issue to be hammered out between the Bandits and USSSA. We have talked to Bubba and he is doing his job to the best of his ability. He is looking out for both USSSA and the Bandits. Rule 7.03 allows for some wiggle room for many of the reasons that Panni mentioned and probably many more.
We will continue to deal with it privately with USSSA and hopefully come to an agreeable solution.
Braves2017, thank you very much for your support. Hope to see you guys again soon. |
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bball2008
100 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2011 : 14:28:22
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| The big issue here is precedent. Like PANNI's squad, there have been teams in every year past that have been made to travel to their state championship at the cost of hundred's of dollars for each of their parents in order to keep their Elite berth. The rule should definitely be changed but it needs to be done at the beginning of a season rather than at this stage so that it does not appear that preferential treatment is given to a team that simply had a scheduling conflict. Otherwise USSSA may have a powder keg on their hands from teams & parents that have busted their budgets in the past to follow said rule. Lots of eyes and ears watching the outcome of this dilemma. |
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moss21
54 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2011 : 14:30:02
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| The older Stixx team last year was in the same situation that the Bandits are in right now. They did the same thing and went to Cooperstown instead of playing in the state tournament,USSSA not only didn't let them go to Disney, but they also had to forfit the $1000.00 they sent for the Elite-32. That is the only wagon that I'm hitching to. |
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wareagle
324 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2011 : 15:44:58
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Tough decision with no good answers. Rules are made to be followed, but I have seen USSSA or their directors bend many other rules to benefit themselves.
I would like to wish the Bandits the best of luck, they are truly a remarkable team. I would think that the teams in the Elite 32 are looking to play the best teams out there, and you certainly have to put the Bandits in that group.
Sure would hate for the other teams to miss the opportunity to play the Bandits because as the great philosopher Ric Flair said, "IF YOU WANT TO BE THE MAN, YOU GOTTA BEAT THE MAN"
Good Luck Bandits. |
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Braves2017
7 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2011 : 18:09:40
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Sorry BH, have to follow-up here....My last on this, I promise.....I'm counting on USSSA to be the kind of organization that will right-a-wrong or improve a process on the spot. There's no need to wait for the end of a season or consider "precedent". This is not a courtroom....its youth baseball and our definition for "precedent' is "water under the bridge". USSSA has spent many years as a trailblazer in travel ball, which means they have continuously learned and improved faster than anyone else. Its "grass-roots" at its best and we play travel ball to avoid the beauracracy that has 12 and 13 yr old man-children pitching from 45 feet and running 60 ft to first base in Williamsport every year....because thats what they did in 1972!! I feel for those that were affected by this issue in previous years but I vehemently disagree that we should continue to make the same error or that current teams should suffer. As travel ball continues to grow, the sanctioning body that is able to analyze dated regulations and adapt to changing landscapes will lead all others. All the eyes and ears in the world could be watching this but they will be looking for USSSA to do what is RIGHT, regardless of those that would only be happy if others experience an equal hardship....with all due respect, that thinking is backwards and I'm counting on USSSA to continue moving FORWARD and leading the way in this ever-growing/changing travel ball phenomenon. If I have faced wrong-doing, i would hope to work towards change for the sake of my children and those that come after me. Pls forgive me if I ever get to a point that I want to share my hardship with my children before helping to solve the problem.
Find a good solution for this obvious and growing conflict, fix it now and stay flexible to adjust it, as we continue this road of improving the quality of baseball in America for our children and their children. |
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2011 : 18:21:41
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| This whole situation is a JOKE!! It is another way to grab money by USSSA....Sure you earned your berth but until you give us another 500$ for the state tourney it isn't "validated"....What a joke |
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Nationals10
36 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2011 : 18:53:34
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There is no easy solution to this problem. Answer.... follow the rules set forth at the start of this season. Longball- most have not done what the Bandits have done this year... congrat's on a great team and year.... doesn't make it ok to bend the rules for them. The only answer is follow the rules........ or have another state qualifier the next week. In previous years when you had to play in the sub-state tournaments, I met a team at a neutral site and played a best of three series just because at that age(14) no sub-state event made and was told prior to this best of three if I couldn't work something out like that... I couldn't go to my World Series.... How was the tournaments not making my fault?
Well, we worked it out...played and got to go. Braves 2017 - I can respect your post.....and that is what the elite 32 is all about, however, that is all USSSA events, not really sure Cooperstown is worried about USSSA or it's rules. Bottom line - Rules are Rules and made to play by and follow...... This is my reference to the problem.... Would you want USSSA to allow a team to fly a player in to the Elite 32 and put on the roster after cutoff time?
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Edited by - Nationals10 on 06/08/2011 19:31:33 |
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bball2008
100 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2011 : 20:08:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Braves2017
Sorry BH, have to follow-up here....My last on this, I promise.....I'm counting on USSSA to be the kind of organization that will right-a-wrong or improve a process on the spot. There's no need to wait for the end of a season or consider "precedent". This is not a courtroom....its youth baseball and our definition for "precedent' is "water under the bridge". USSSA has spent many years as a trailblazer in travel ball, which means they have continuously learned and improved faster than anyone else. Its "grass-roots" at its best and we play travel ball to avoid the beauracracy that has 12 and 13 yr old man-children pitching from 45 feet and running 60 ft to first base in Williamsport every year....because thats what they did in 1972!! I feel for those that were affected by this issue in previous years but I vehemently disagree that we should continue to make the same error or that current teams should suffer. As travel ball continues to grow, the sanctioning body that is able to analyze dated regulations and adapt to changing landscapes will lead all others. All the eyes and ears in the world could be watching this but they will be looking for USSSA to do what is RIGHT, regardless of those that would only be happy if others experience an equal hardship....with all due respect, that thinking is backwards and I'm counting on USSSA to continue moving FORWARD and leading the way in this ever-growing/changing travel ball phenomenon. If I have faced wrong-doing, i would hope to work towards change for the sake of my children and those that come after me. Pls forgive me if I ever get to a point that I want to share my hardship with my children before helping to solve the problem.
Find a good solution for this obvious and growing conflict, fix it now and stay flexible to adjust it, as we continue this road of improving the quality of baseball in America for our children and their children.
Precedent is an issue because the families of teams from as early as a season ago were MADE to pay hundreds of hard-earned dollars each and take the time to travel to play in their state tournament in order to secure their berth to Disney. Those teams asked for the same concession from USSSA that the Bandits are asking and were not allowed to forgo their state tournaments. Not saying it's right because it really isn't. The Bandits clearly are deserving and should be able to represent GA in Disney. But rules are rules and if you don't bend them for some teams but do for another under the same circumstance then the rules become confusing.
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DBL PLAY
34 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2011 : 22:07:47
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| The question here is why now? Why is this problem being discussed now, it should have been worked out at the time CDP gave you the week of your state tournament or did you think because you are the Bandits that there was no way USSSA could keep you out of the Elite 32 and you would worry about it when you have to. Lots of times teams or people in general develop a feeling of larger than life or that maybe they are so good that they are bigger than the game ( not saying the Bandits are doing this ) It's not a bad thing to be confident just sometimes that confidence can lead us to a false sense of entitlement. If the Elite 32 is so high on the list of things to do and the issue is so big maybe CDP park should have been out of the question or vice verse if you were just looking for the experience of Cooperstown. Sometimes we must look at the bigger picture and realize that some things aren't meant to be but for what ever reason something better maybe just on the horizon. If I've done my home work correctly I see that the NABF WS is the week before Disney and that you (Bandits) are signed up for that. It would be pretty tough on the kids, parents and financially to do this. Not to mention the Bandits do have a track record for injuries so it might be a good thing by not playing the Elite. Besides I think the NYBC is your (Bandits) goal and the NABF will take you there. |
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OBXBlue
33 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2011 : 23:03:51
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| This may or may not solve the problem, but if the state tournament were to start on say Friday afternoon around 5, and the Bandits took the field and threw a pitch, and then all piled in their cars and headed off to Cooperstown, would that count as "playing" in the state tournament? I bet the other teams in the states would not frown upon seeing those cars leave for the weekend. You boys might not be able to sweep the skills competition like I predict, but at least you could qualify for E32. Just a thought and question. I think any team with this resume should be afforded the chance to play. Heck, waive the rule and let them come play in our states in Greensboro later this month. Would love to play them. |
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11baseball11
90 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2011 : 08:37:34
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| Just add 9 rec ball players to your roster and have them play the state tourney. Teams add players all the time, print cheap t-shirts and be done with it. |
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Braves2017
7 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2011 : 09:55:03
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First let me say, I know I'm breaking a promise and I respect all who have posted here.
Spartan4 -Finally a voice of reason in the crowd....thanks for letting me know i'm not crazy for:
1. Not settling for the "rules are the rules...blah, blah". Some rules become out dated and lose their relevance. We can and should challenge and promote change, when the purpose of the rule no longer passes the common sense test.
2. Speaking up when I hear that other teams offered to pay the State Tournament reg fee and forfeit....and were denied. Now this really confused me. Because the only reasonable basis for the rule was to ensure National travelling teams pay homage to their State USSSA organization. I suspect this was a product of laziness and someone trying to come up with a quick answer instead of doing some analysis and finding the root of the problem...and solving it.
3. Not agreeing that because past teams were hurt by the rule, that we should ensure that current teams are equally hurt. (Silly is a nice word for this one) Especially when we all agree, the problem is the rule is dated, purposeless and needs to be amended. If I had known those teams that were affected last year, I would have helped and encourage them not to accept the wrong, but work to change it for everyone. No special favors or exceptions in this case. Just change the rule for all going forward. If I knew and understood the purpose of the rule (remember, i was thrown for a loop when I heard they couldn't pay the reg fee and forfeit), I would be writing USSSA to try and help with an amendment that helps them acheive their objective but is fair and relevant to their current day customers. I just cant for the life of me determine what the ultimate objective is.
4. Expecting the top travel ball sanctioning body in the country to take this under consideration and do a complete and thorough job of modifying the rule so that it no longer puts them in this uncomfortable position.....and now, not later, if we agree its wrong, it will not be any less wrong at the end of the season.....act now (I sincerely hope this is what USSSA is doing)
5. Realizing that this is a "special case" that cannot compare with other rule violations like roster-adds after the deadline. Breaking this rule does not give a team an unfair advantage at the Elite 32.....its irrelevant. USSSA did not build this world series to be "arguably the top 32 teams in the country.....who attended their State tournament".
6. Understanding the progression of travelball in the US and realizing that effective co-exist strategies between Cooperstown, USSSA, NYBC and others is a good thing for our sport and makes this a topic, worthy of healthy discussion.
Thanks again Spartan4. I agree with you.....its silly. On a good note, it probably would have took a team as prolific as the Bandits to raise this to levels senior enough at USSSA to implement a real solution to benefit all future participants. |
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2011 : 09:56:20
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I had the same idea. Their roster is frozen though, and I think you are only allowed 2 or 3 adds after a roster becomes frozen.
quote:
Originally posted by 11baseball11
Just add 9 rec ball players to your roster and have them play the state tourney. Teams add players all the time, print cheap t-shirts and be done with it.
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Edited by - bmoser on 06/09/2011 12:20:52 |
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in_the_know
985 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2011 : 12:14:29
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quote:
Originally posted by 11baseball11
Just add 9 rec ball players to your roster and have them play the state tourney. Teams add players all the time, print cheap t-shirts and be done with it.
I was going to suggest they do the same thing except their roster is frozen, therefore USSSA rules dictate that the maximum roster additions they can have at this point is 3. |
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Shut Out
512 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2011 : 12:46:16
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| Pool play doesn't start until Sunday in CDP. I say play pool play and "lose" in GA then haul butt up to CDP by Sunday. Ask CDP for a late check in. |
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mlbscout
77 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2011 : 12:47:00
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I have been away from baseball due to a prolonged illness which required surgery. I'm fine now but missed a big chunk of my son's recball games. Good thing he will make the all-star team. I guess I returned to the forum at the right time. This is a very interesting situation. I would first like to state that in my opinion the Bandits should be given serious consideration to join the group going to the elite 32 world series, as long as they can meet the critria for rule 7.03. This rule gives the administrators from USSSA some room to make subjective decisions. If for whatever reason the powers to be at USSSA deny them the opportunity to play at Disney, the only person or persons to blame are the coaches. This is not a new team. They should have known ahead of time what the requirements were for participation at the elites. There is no need to blame USSSA or change the rules. There are at least 12 different weeks during which the Cooperstown tournament could have been be played. Although one of the main goals of nationally ranked teams is to win the national tournament at the end of August, it would be nice to also win the elite32. If because they did not play a State tournament the bandits are denied entry inspite of winning several super nits, USSSA could let them in by awarding them an at-large berth. They have done this in the past and I don't think they would require paricipation in a state tourney (I'm not 100% sure of this). I'm convinced that there are several teams who would prefer that they not be given a chance (to increase their chances of winning at Disney) while there are others who would prefer for them to be allowed to participate so that they can have the opportunity to beat them.
Once again , for the kids' sake and all their hard work and dedication during the season, I hope they're allowed to particpate. It is a shame that the coaches have put this nice bunch of kids in such an agonizing situation.
quote:
Originally posted by wareagle
Tough decision with no good answers. Rules are made to be followed, but I have seen USSSA or their directors bend many other rules to benefit themselves.
I would like to wish the Bandits the best of luck, they are truly a remarkable team. I would think that the teams in the Elite 32 are looking to play the best teams out there, and you certainly have to put the Bandits in that group.
Sure would hate for the other teams to miss the opportunity to play the Bandits because as the great philosopher Ric Flair said, "IF YOU WANT TO BE THE MAN, YOU GOTTA BEAT THE MAN"
Good Luck Bandits.
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mjones9226
81 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2011 : 12:47:03
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| What is the criteria to be awarded an 'at large' bid? If they are not eligible due to the state rule then you know there is an opening. Seems to me award them an at large bid. Not knowing the criteria for selection how could they not be the top choice? I Understand it has not worked for some in the past, but 2 wrongs don't make it right. IMO it would be the right thing to do, and doing the right thing superdcedes dated rules. I would think the other qualifiers would want them there (or they should), meaning no kids get hurt due to the situation. If they are not allowed to play you have an entire team that gets hurt. Common sense just ain't so common anymore. Award them an at large bid. Nobody could argue they are not deserving, and USSSA can just take their licks from those that disagree, and be done with it. |
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kingofthehill
40 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2011 : 12:49:16
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| my son plays out of Orlando. I say let the best teams come play. Bandits are a top 10 to 15 team so they should be there. |
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Shut Out
512 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2011 : 12:52:50
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| Not too mention with the Year the Bandits have had i say just ask the other 31 teams to come to East Cobb for a invite tourney instead and let them all boycott Disney. It would cost less; the facilities are just as good at ECB and these other 31 just want a chance to beat the bandits anyway. |
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TAZ980002
831 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2011 : 15:45:15
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@ dbl_play: this isn't a new issue for us. Our coach has been working on it for months.
@ mlb_scout: we applied for week 9 with Cooperstown but were told the only week we could play is week #2 |
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