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bmoser
1633 Posts |
 Posted - 05/10/2011 : 20:18:20
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Will the weather hold out? When will the pool games be released? Will Tony make us all wait until tomorrow morning 10 am? Is this the strongest field of the year after the SNIT?
Which venues will be added to handle this many teams? Cumming? Folks seem touchy about that. |
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Slider23
4 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2011 : 23:24:05
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| Pool schedule out. Bandits should have plenty of pitching left after pool play.... come on.........where's the challenge? |
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TAZ980002
831 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2011 : 11:22:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Slider23
Pool schedule out. Bandits should have plenty of pitching left after pool play.... come on.........where's the challenge?
Well Slider, the Bandits didn't have anything to do with the pool schedule. 47 teams in this tournament and the Bandits won't be challenged? Come on ... |
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2011 : 11:45:32
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Slider,
That could be said of other teams as well. Don't you agree? |
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baseballnutz
427 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2011 : 12:42:41
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| The Bandits have more #1's than any team around, it may have hurt their seeding (which I doubt) if they had a tougher draw but not their pitching. It looks to me like all the top teams got a pretty fair draw which makes for a good Sunday. |
Edited by - baseballnutz on 05/11/2011 12:47:11 |
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touchemall
145 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2011 : 13:39:39
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| Maybe they should make the Bandits play with one arm tied behind their backs. But then someone would still complain of an unfair advantage by them. Or make them spot teams ten runs and two outs each inning. ha |
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Southside mom
6 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2011 : 14:18:20
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| I understand that it appears the Bandits got an easy pool draw, but please don't hastily discredit so easily the two teams that will play them. I know the Bandits are an EXCELLENT team, but my son is on one of the teams who is paired up against the Bandits in pool play, and he is excited to finally be able to play against them. He is well aware that the odds are greatly stacked against us, but we are up for the challenge. Remember, sometimes it is the quiet ones you have to watch out for. |
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2011 : 15:21:02
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I have not seen how the pools transition in to the brackets yet, but if they do NOT face each other in early brackets, my final 4 are Bandits, Sandtown, Rocket City Roadrunners, TN Naturals. I see it as time for some out of State teams to break through. Just one guys WAG.
If you look at this event as a 48 team field, it can be daunting, so we might want to look at it as a 7 team field. Your team, and the other 6 you will have to beat to win it all. Most teams have an easier time wrapping their arms around that concept. |
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TAZ980002
831 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2011 : 16:01:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Southside mom
I understand that it appears the Bandits got an easy pool draw, but please don't hastily discredit so easily the two teams that will play them. I know the Bandits are an EXCELLENT team, but my son is on one of the teams who is paired up against the Bandits in pool play, and he is excited to finally be able to play against them. He is well aware that the odds are greatly stacked against us, but we are up for the challenge. Remember, sometimes it is the quiet ones you have to watch out for.
We said Mom !! |
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2011 : 23:14:06
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Weather??? Strongest field of the year besides SNIT? Anyone giving the the out of State team a chance to make the final 4? (I am).
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baseball papa
123 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2011 : 23:23:47
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| Papa agrees with Mom. This is Baseball and you always have a chance if you play hard and with heart. I expect both teams that the Bandits will play in pool play will do both. Ask the Bones if you should show up. The Bones did not beat my Bandits but they did put the only bird poop on our windshield so far this year. Mom, You can trust Papa when I tell you that your team is not being taken lightly by the Bandits and I wish you and your kids the best. |
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BBall123
395 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2011 : 09:42:07
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You are all missing the point here, the pools are not set up this way to protect the bandits. They are set up this way to protect the other top teams from the bandits to help insure the top teams get to the gold,quarters and semis.
The bandits dont need any help and fear no one. |
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in_the_know
985 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2011 : 12:01:30
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quote:
Originally posted by BBall123
You are all missing the point here, the pools are not set up this way to protect the bandits. They are set up this way to protect the other top teams from the bandits to help insure the top teams get to the gold,quarters and semis.
The bandits dont need any help and fear no one.
Pretty far reaching to say that it's to protect other teams from the Bandits since this is the 9th Triple Crown 12u event in the state and only the 2nd the Bandits have entered. The brackets are always set up balancing the top teams across pools for the reason you describe. It's much better if the brackets stack up with the top tier teams in the gold, the mid tier in silver and third tier in bronze. You end up with level competition and better bracket games by doing so. You also "protect" teams in the mid and third tiers by not "sending" top majors into those brackets by design. If it happens because teams can't get it done, so be it, but to set pools that would guarantee it would not be in the best interest of all involved in the tournament. It's not being done to protect teams from the Bandits. It's being done to protect all teams from one another on the way to bracket. |
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Shut Out
512 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2011 : 12:03:37
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| I guess based on the pool play the Cougars won't have a problem getting to gold either. Wills Park 2nd team and their 11U. |
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Coach D
167 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2011 : 15:17:20
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So we should just be OK that all the top teams get a cake walk to Sunday while everyone else battles it out? If the top teams had to battle in pool play like the rest of us Maybe they wouldnt be the top teams????
Our team is happy playing better competition as we know that is what makes you learn and grow as a team.But that doesnt mean we agree with the set-up. |
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2011 : 16:59:15
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| I wouldn't mind seeing TC do an occasional hat draw event just to change things up. |
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11UFAN
149 Posts |
Posted - 05/12/2011 : 18:01:38
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I think TC does a great job ensuring a competitive tournament for all levels of skill involved. This "set-up" gives everyone a real chance to play as many games as possible on Sunday while giving all teams a chance to knock off the top competition in pool play when it is not a do or die situation.
Throw your best at teams like the Bandits and don't worry about Sunday pitching. Heck if you play the Bandits and win (or even keep it close) who cares what happens on Sunday. Your team will be better for the experience.
Every team can make it to the top bracket, but are not penalized on Sunday if they don't. Obviously with the number of teams these TC tourneys draw they are doing something right! I think this "set-up" is one of the biggest reasons they draw so many teams.
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Edited by - 11UFAN on 05/12/2011 19:09:03 |
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Coach D
167 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2011 : 10:00:00
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No the reason they draw so many teams is because everyone wants a chance to beat the best teams.And apparently this is the only outfit in town that has the connections to venues large enough to field such an event. You have the SNIT in henry County is the only other event in Georgia that draws,or that could handle so many teams.I assure you for out of area teams that have to play on Thurs/Friday , this is not a good "set-up" .
But like I said , we decided to sign up and will have a great time playing the great competition we will face.We have no hard feelings toward TC or any particular teams just posting our perspective from the outside looking in.
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2011 : 12:25:27
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It's highly preferable to play Thursday and/or Friday because then you have zero chance of having to play 3 games Saturday over a 14-hour time span which requires deeper pitching, and more stamina.
Also, if you play Thursday or Friday, you are in pools A-H which are the easier pools in collective team strength, so there are two major advantages of weekday games.
Pools M and L are the toughest pools in collective team strength, and they both have a possibility of the 3-game, 14-hour day.
Now, if your team just cannot do Thursday, or Friday, then 10/Noon Saturday game times would be the next best, but those come with a 3-game 12-hour potential scenario.
If you assign Majors=3, AAA=2, AA=1, then average each pool:
C&I = 1.67 easiest pool
D&G = 2.0 2nd easiest pool
A,B,E,F,H,J,K = 2.33 about average
N&O = 2.5 3rd toughest pool
L = 2.67 2nd toughest pool
M = 3 toughest pool
The bolded pools have weekday games that place less stress on the pitching staffs & team stamina. Thus, C appears to me to be the most preferable pool, and M the least, followed closely L.
If you look at the most preferable pools' strongest teams, you can isolate the teams that have the biggest advantage overall. Conversely, if you look at the least desirable pools' weakest teams, you will find the teams with the toughest challenge overall.
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Edited by - bmoser on 05/13/2011 12:43:59 |
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TAZ980002
831 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2011 : 13:27:13
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quote:
Originally posted by bmoser
It's highly preferable to play Thursday and/or Friday because then you have zero chance of having to play 3 games Saturday over a 14-hour time span which requires deeper pitching, and more stamina.
Also, if you play Thursday or Friday, you are in pools A-H which are the easier pools in collective team strength, so there are two major advantages of weekday games.
Pools M and L are the toughest pools in collective team strength, and they both have a possibility of the 3-game, 14-hour day.
Now, if your team just cannot do Thursday, or Friday, then 10/Noon Saturday game times would be the next best, but those come with a 3-game 12-hour potential scenario.
If you assign Majors=3, AAA=2, AA=1, then average each pool:
C&I = 1.67 easiest pool
D&G = 2.0 2nd easiest pool
A,B,E,F,H,J,K = 2.33 about average
N&O = 2.5 3rd toughest pool
L = 2.67 2nd toughest pool
M = 3 toughest pool
The bolded pools have weekday games that place less stress on the pitching staffs & team stamina. Thus, C appears to me to be the most preferable pool, and M the least, followed closely L.
If you look at the most preferable pools' strongest teams, you can isolate the teams that have the biggest advantage overall. Conversely, if you look at the least desirable pools' weakest teams, you will find the teams with the toughest challenge overall.
Wow Bmoser, just when I think I've seen the depth of your analytical abilities, you come up with a gem like this !!! |
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Frydaddy
80 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2011 : 13:48:21
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As a Tennessee team we come down to play great competition. We were very pleased to match up with 2 other major teams in pool play since we weren't guaranteed anything after that. Although in Backyard Brawl we went 1-1 and didn't qualify for the Gold bracket we still were very pleased to play a lot of different quality competition which is what we were seeking. TC does a very good job of this and certainly helps being attached with some great venues.
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2011 : 17:23:56
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Bandit_Hawk,
Some gray-hairs do Crossword Puzzles, some play Scrabble, others do Sudoku to exercise their noodle. I do this. Besides, I had 2 hours of yard work staring me down, and this was a great way to stall.
My earlier analysis began at the outset, and moved forward in time. Another way to look at it is to begin at the end, and work backwards.
Looking at the end result...none of the 4 winners of TC events in the ATL Metro played weekday games. Bandits, Powder Springs Indians, Chilidogs Black, and Sandtown...all began pool play Saturday. Two teams earned a bye to avoid a 3-game Saturday, and only the PS Indians and HP Chilidogs Black ran the 3-game 14 hour Saturday gauntlet and came out on top Sunday.
Conclusion: while weekday games provides teams an easier path, it does not guarantee a successful result.
Enough stalling, time to clean the garage. I need to back the cars out...if I could just remember where I put my keys :(
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11UFAN
149 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2011 : 19:01:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Coach D
No the reason they draw so many teams is because everyone wants a chance to beat the best teams.And apparently this is the only outfit in town that has the connections to venues large enough to field such an event. You have the SNIT in henry County is the only other event in Georgia that draws,or that could handle so many teams.I assure you for out of area teams that have to play on Thurs/Friday , this is not a good "set-up" .
But like I said , we decided to sign up and will have a great time playing the great competition we will face.We have no hard feelings toward TC or any particular teams just posting our perspective from the outside looking in.
I guess I don't get your point. If you are not one of the "best" and the reason you sign up for these big events is to play the best this set-up gives you the best odds of playing one of the better teams in pool play plus your chances of getting knocked out in the first round of bracket play should be less because you get placed in a more competitive bracket after pool play. I am by no means a Bmoser but I think this makes sense.
So it seems you get the best of both worlds, playing at least one of the top teams in pool play and playing more games in total. IMO this makes all the teams better in the long run (by playing the best and playing a lot).
If TC did a blind draw there would be no reason to have G/S/B brackets. I actually kinda miss the old double elimination set-up after pool play, one and done on Sunday is tough but I guess with this number of teams it would add too many games and would be tough on the pitching. I always loved seeing teams work their way through the losers bracket. |
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Coach D
167 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2011 : 23:22:39
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| 11u . I do see your point and agree with you. The point is the better teams have a better chance starting on Sunday elimination as they did not have to go to one of their aces to get through pool play to the gold bracket.That leaves the mid level teams with less pitching in the elimination round to face the better teams. It would just be nice to see the big boys battle in pool play sometmes and see who is really the deeper team(s) . I agree also about the double elimination that is where its at!!! |
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TAZ980002
831 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2011 : 07:22:17
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I actually liked it better when these tournaments were not broken into multiple brackets after pool play. When my son was playing 9u he was on a team with not much pitching depth. They could hang with just about anyone for 1 game. After their top pitchers were used up though, the following games got real interesting. They played a TC event and faced the Bay Bombers early in bracket play and sent them home in a low scoring battle but then lost to a good Astros team in a high scoring game. Both games were fun though.
Bottom line, I think that by not splitting the brackets up the teams had to manage pitching better. The teams that were not deep in pitching were exposed earlier but had the chance to battle with anyone. I think that there a lot of good reasons to split them up also. I'm just glad that there are so many quality teams and tournaments for our boys to play. |
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in_the_know
985 Posts |
Posted - 05/14/2011 : 07:53:06
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Probably the best point to be taken from all this discussion is that tournament baseball is different than "seasonal" baseball.
In tournament ball you strategize as to when you have to pitch a player and how long can he go before having to pull him and still have innings and arm protection in the tank for later in the tournament. Likewise, sometimes you won't throw your ace against the best team you face in pool, rather choosing to save him (almost conceding defeat) so that he will be available to get you deeper in pool.
This is why that on any given day any team can beat another if the circumstances shake out correctly. With that said, I do believe that the top tier teams would still shake out as top tier teams in best of 3 or 5 series against the field as most of these teams have greater pitching depth and tend to have stronger hitting line-ups and defenses than the mid to lower tier teams. That said, if you were to play more 3 of 5 or 5 of 7 series, I think most teams would tend to have more losses spread out across all teams, ie., top teams would have a few more losses and lower rung teams would likely have fewer losses in that format.
In tournament ball, you don't make out your lineup to win every game. Before everyone goes nuts, I didn't say that you don't try to win every game. I believe that once you submit your lineup, you and your boys make every effort to win with what you put on the field, however, there is a HUGE difference between trying to win a game and win a tournament with regard to how and when you set your lineup on the field.
quote:
Originally posted by Coach D
11u . I do see your point and agree with you. The point is the better teams have a better chance starting on Sunday elimination as they did not have to go to one of their aces to get through pool play to the gold bracket.That leaves the mid level teams with less pitching in the elimination round to face the better teams. It would just be nice to see the big boys battle in pool play sometmes and see who is really the deeper team(s) . I agree also about the double elimination that is where its at!!!
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