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Gwinnett
791 Posts |
 Posted - 05/03/2011 : 09:35:27
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11 AND UNDER DIVISION (WILL SPLIT INTO SILVER AND GOLD BRACKETS AFTER POOL PLAY WITH 16 PAID TEAMS):
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1. EAST COBB TITANS--MARIETTA, GA
2. SHILOH TITANS--SNELLVILLE, GA
3. SFCB BARRETT BASEBALL--CUMMING, GA
4. GEORGIA JACKHAMMERS--ADAIRSVILLE, GA
5. EAST COBB RAYS--MARIETTA, GA
6. SOUTH GWINNETT TITANS--SNELLVILLE, GA
7. ROSWELL HORNETS--ROSWELL, GA
8. 6-4-3 DP JAGUARS--MARIETTA, GA
9. NICEVILLE TRAVELING EAGLES--NICEVILLE, FL
10. SHARON SPRINGS SPARTANS BLACK--CUMMING, GA
11. PATRIOT BASEBALL ACADEMY--JOHNS CREEK, GA
12. WILLS PARK TITANS--ALPHARETTA, GA
13. EAST COBB YANKEES--MARIETTA, GA
14. WILLS PARK WARRIORS--ALPHARETTA, GA
15. SMASH BASEBALL--CUMMING, GA
16. SFCB RANGERS--CUMMING, GA
17. HOBGOOD STORM--WOODSTOCK, GA
18. 6-4-3 DP COUGARS--MARIETTA, GA
19. SANDY PLAINS WILDCATS--MARIETTA, GA
20. EAST COBB LONGHORNS--MARIETTA, GA
21. EAST COBB BRAVES--MARIETTA, GA
22. east cobb nationals--marietta, ga
Looks like a good group of teams? |
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2011 : 11:27:19
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| Just missing the Stealth and the Grays...... |
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Gwinnett
791 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2011 : 14:00:31
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Spartan, I guess you guys changed your mind? It ought to be a great weekend! Glad to see you & the Braves get in it!
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Originally posted by Spartan4
Just missing the Stealth and the Grays......
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Edited by - Gwinnett on 05/03/2011 14:05:29 |
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BravesFan
533 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2011 : 16:46:51
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looks like 3 east cobb teams jumped in last minute with the Braves headlining this group, with all they have going on, I see them pulling this one out. Some good teams won't make to the Gold bracket, looks like a strong group of teams.
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BballNut
73 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2011 : 22:39:14
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| Schedule is out for 11Us. |
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Gwinnett
791 Posts |
Posted - 05/04/2011 : 09:05:31
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FRIDAY 6:00 PM EAST COBB #7 East Cobb Yankees A1 A2 Hobgood Storm
2 FRIDAY 6:00 PM EAST COBB #8 East Cobb Braves B1 B2 Roswell Hornets
3 FRIDAY 6:00 PM AVIATION FIELD #3 6-4-3 DP Cougars C1 C2 Sandy Plains Wildcats
4 FRIDAY 8:00 PM EAST COBB #7 Wills Park Warriors D1 D2 Smash Baseball
5 FRIDAY 8:00 PM EAST COBB #8 SFCB Rangers E1 E2 Wills Park Titans
6 FRIDAY 8:00 PM AVIATION FIELD #3 Georgia Jackhammers F1 F2 East Cobb Nationals
7 SATURDAY 9:00 AM EAST COBB #7 East Cobb Yankees A1 A3 Sharon Springs Spartans Black
8 SATURDAY 9:00 AM EAST COBB #8 East Cobb Braves B1 B3 Patriot Baseball Academy
9 SATURDAY 9:00 AM AVIATION FIELD #3 6-4-3 DP Jaguars G1 G2 East Cobb Titans
10 SATURDAY 9:00 AM ALL TOURNAMENT #2 6-4-3 DP Cougars C1 C3 South Gwinnett Titans
11 SATURDAY 11:00 AM EAST COBB #7 Hobgood Storm A2 A3 Sharon Springs Spartans Black
12 SATURDAY 11:00 AM EAST COBB #8 Roswell Hornets B2 B3 Patriot Baseball Academy
13 SATURDAY 11:00 AM AVIATION FIELD #3 6-4-3 DP Jaguars G1 G3 SFCB Barrett Baseball
14 SATURDAY 11:00 AM ALL TOURNAMENT #2 Sandy Plains Wildcats C2 C3 South Gwinnett Titans
15 SATURDAY 1:00 PM EAST COBB #7 Georgia Jackhammers F1 F3 Shiloh Titans
16 SATURDAY 1:00 PM EAST COBB #8 SFCB Rangers E1 E3 East Cobb Longhorns
17 SATURDAY 1:00 PM AVIATION FIELD #3 East Cobb Titans G2 G3 SFCB Barrett Baseball
18 SATURDAY 1:00 PM ALL TOURNAMENT #2 Wills Park Warriors D1 D3 East Cobb Rays
19 SATURDAY 3:00 PM EAST COBB #7 East Cobb Nationals F2 F3 Shiloh Titans
20 SATURDAY 3:00 PM EAST COBB #8 Wills Park Titans E2 E3 East Cobb Longhorns
21 SATURDAY 3:00 PM ALL TOURNAMENT #2 Smash Baseball D2 D3 East Cobb Rays
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moccs
349 Posts |
Posted - 05/04/2011 : 16:42:34
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| Amazing how well TC creates the matchups to make sure that the teams have a chance to get in their prospective brackets. You dont see many games where the top teams play each other in pool play or the lower teams play each other in pool play. Do they use usssa rankings , nations or head to head in any way or just triple crown results ? It is definitely not a blind draw. Dont see many suprises in pool and look to see Braves - Longhorns-Shiloh- Rays- 6-4-3, Yankees ,Springs Black and Wills Park Titans in Gold .. |
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gafan
66 Posts |
Posted - 05/04/2011 : 19:09:33
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| I think its interesting to get another person's perspective on your own team on this board, especially when they think your team is better than you think it is. :) |
Edited by - gafan on 05/04/2011 20:03:33 |
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Storm Baseball
212 Posts |
Posted - 05/04/2011 : 21:12:27
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| Yes, it is always amazing how the East Cobb teams are never in the same pool...random, huh? |
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cnettles
36 Posts |
Posted - 05/04/2011 : 21:37:32
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| I am in total agreement with Moccs. There is no doubt that the EC teams and the "Major" teams are given what could be defined as an easier path to the gold bracket. It is what it is and upsets could and hopefull will happen but its so clear that you can't have a tournament at EC without EC representation. |
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 05/04/2011 : 22:59:00
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quote:
Originally posted by moccs
Amazing how well TC creates the matchups to make sure that the teams have a chance to get in their prospective brackets. You dont see many games where the top teams play each other in pool play or the lower teams play each other in pool play. Do they use usssa rankings , nations or head to head in any way or just triple crown results ? It is definitely not a blind draw. Dont see many suprises in pool and look to see Braves - Longhorns-Shiloh- Rays- 6-4-3, Yankees ,Springs Black and Wills Park Titans in Gold ..
Some teams will always have MUCH MUCH harder draws than other teams, but I completely agree that the tournament seems to be set up to ensure a majority of the top teams make the gold bracket....I don't really have a problem with it, if a middle of the road major team got the Braves and Stealth in pool and lost both I'm not sure anything could keep them from winning the silver bracket. Most major coaches IMO don't want to play in the silver bracket much less dominate it. Just my two cents |
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gafan
66 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2011 : 08:17:31
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| As a AAA team, I like it when our team has one Major and one team similar to us in our pool. It gives us a chance to possibly win one and be able to see the best competition too. Since we would probably get hammered in the Gold Bracket, we always hope to be at the top of the silver bracket just so we can be competitive. |
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crash davis
4 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2011 : 08:20:48
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| I have an idea on why East Cobb usually does not play East Cobb in pool play.. The same reason why 6-4-3, Homeplate, Sharon Springs and other major associations don't when there are more than one of their teams in a tournament. I say if you travel to a tournament and you have to play the same team from your park that's dumb but sometimes you can't help it because of travel. If you have a tournament at your own park no matter whose hosting it and you have to play the same team from the park than that just stinks cause you can do that any given day of the week. |
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JBR
43 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2011 : 09:49:19
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| I echo what GAFAN said. My philosophy is this: if we expect to win the tournament we have to beat the best of the best at some point along the way. I don't care if it happens on Friday or on Sunday. Am I happy we drew the Braves in our first pool game? Nope. Am I looking forward to playing them? Absolutely. |
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BballNut
73 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2011 : 13:39:00
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First of all, this is not to diminish in any way the great job TC Sports is doing in Georgia with the tournaments. We all appreciate their efforts. It is just extremely frustrating to see tournament after tournament the way the pools are selected to give the advantage to the higher ranked teams particularly when there are gold and silver brackets (at least this is the appearance). I would love, JUST ONCE, to see an obvious "blind draw" which pits teams against the luck-of-the-draw. Instead, what we see time and time again are the majors teams never going against each other in pool play, which appears to be stacking the cards for a "higher classification" playoff in the gold bracket.
If TC Sports and other organizations want to see Majors teams go head-to-head, why not just keep the tournaments separate and eliminate the "open" play? Now, on the flip side, we all recognize the upset that could occur should a lower ranked team be able to pull it off, but we know the odds of this happening are generally low. Also, we also recognize the benefits of lower ranked teams getting "good play" in during these tournaments. BUT, it sure would be nice if wasn't so obvious during every open tournament.
Can anyone shed any light as to how the pools are determined? Is "luck-of-the-draw" too much to ask for? What's wrong with a Majors team playing in the silver bracket if they don't rank high enough in pool play. There should really be a level playing field that gives every team who pays to participate the same shot at the gold bracket.
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Edited by - BballNut on 05/05/2011 14:12:14 |
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BballNut
73 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2011 : 15:05:18
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I also sent this post to Tony of TC Sports in an email. Here's his reply. At least it sheds some light as to the rationale behind how the pool games are set up for anyone who is interested. Agree or disagree with the rationale? I'm now partial.
Tom,
The way that we set up the pools is exactly how you explained it in your e-mail. Why would you do a "blind draw"???? This would really cancel out the importance of the Silver bracket. Why pit MAJOR versus MAJOR in pool play???? or even better why pit the AA versus other AA teams in pool play???? Then once the AA team goes to gold bracket get whacked and go home after 3 games. The whole explanation of this is thing is to allow the teams to fight it out in pool play and then be able to compete at their level come elimination time! I know if I was a lower level team, I would take my lumps on Friday night and early Saturday, then have a great chance to play more games come elimination time! If we did a blind draw, then you are basically setting up two GOLD BRACKETS with MAJOR TEAMS winning both of them! Makes no sense. This is our reasoning behind this whole thing. This also allows the AAA teams to play the Majors under a more relaxed atmosphere and not the fear of having to go home with a loss. Also gives teams a peace of mind, knowing that if they stink up the place in pool play, they will not have to turn around and play the number one seed in the tournament and pretty much go home. I hope that I shed some light into this topic and hope to see you there this weekend.
quote:
Originally posted by BballNut
First of all, this is not to diminish in any way the great job TC Sports is doing in Georgia with the tournaments. We all appreciate their efforts. It is just extremely frustrating to see tournament after tournament the way the pools are selected to give the advantage to the higher ranked teams particularly when there are gold and silver brackets (at least this is the appearance). I would love, JUST ONCE, to see an obvious "blind draw" which pits teams against the luck-of-the-draw. Instead, what we see time and time again are the majors teams never going against each other in pool play, which appears to be stacking the cards for a "higher classification" playoff in the gold bracket.
If TC Sports and other organizations want to see Majors teams go head-to-head, why not just keep the tournaments separate and eliminate the "open" play? Now, on the flip side, we all recognize the upset that could occur should a lower ranked team be able to pull it off, but we know the odds of this happening are generally low. Also, we also recognize the benefits of lower ranked teams getting "good play" in during these tournaments. BUT, it sure would be nice if wasn't so obvious during every open tournament.
Can anyone shed any light as to how the pools are determined? Is "luck-of-the-draw" too much to ask for? What's wrong with a Majors team playing in the silver bracket if they don't rank high enough in pool play. There should really be a level playing field that gives every team who pays to participate the same shot at the gold bracket.
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cnettles
36 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2011 : 16:18:37
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| Kudos to Tony. Great reasoning and explanation. Thats why we play the games!!!! |
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PATbb
58 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2011 : 18:02:05
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| Having an easy pool play schedule allows you to still get into the gold bracket and at the same time you are able to save a lot of pitching as opposed to playing in a tough pool and having to use pitching in order to get into the Gold bracket making it more difficult to win thru to the Ship. It would be interesting to see these "major" teams have to play one another occasionally in pool play and have to eat some pitching during pool play much like the rest (AAA) of the teams have to do in order to make sure they make the gold bracket and thru to the ship. |
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ecball
72 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2011 : 19:55:09
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It doesn't always work out that way as we had to play shiloh in pool play in the last tc event. I think they are a top 5 team so that wasn't exactly an easy draw.
Another advantage for seeding the pool play is that many major teams will throw some other kids against non major teams thus making for better games and giving more kids pitching opportunities. By doing this it saves the top pitchers arms from over use. The issue I have with the usssa tie breaker is that they do it based on runs allowed so if a team is up by 15 runs they still end up pitching their top kids in order to limit the runs in a blow out. |
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2011 : 21:38:16
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quote:
Originally posted by PATbb
Having an easy pool play schedule allows you to still get into the gold bracket and at the same time you are able to save a lot of pitching as opposed to playing in a tough pool and having to use pitching in order to get into the Gold bracket making it more difficult to win thru to the Ship. It would be interesting to see these "major" teams have to play one another occasionally in pool play and have to eat some pitching during pool play much like the rest (AAA) of the teams have to do in order to make sure they make the gold bracket and thru to the ship.
Come to a USSSA tourney to see the "major" teams play one another.....We play with different sanctioning bodies every weekend and other than TC we play other "major" teams the entire weekend!!
I agree 100% with what Coach Kirksey said as well about saving pitching, playing a couple AAA teams keeps the top 3-4 kids from pitching in every single game it seems like....Allowing other kids to pitch not only allows other kids to pitch but I believe it saves boys from throwing the max innings allowed from Feb-July!! |
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PATbb
58 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2011 : 22:16:19
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easy Spart, no one was questioning whether you play majors or not, this post was not about USSSA but more about how TC sets up the pool play and getting into and thru the gold bracket, as for saving pitcher's arms( the top 3 or 4), I believe this would apply to all teams being able to save your top pitchers arms as any team would have a better chance against a AAA than a major team and would be able to get other pitchers on the mound and not over pitching the 3-4 best pitchers
quote:
Originally posted by Spartan4
quote:
Originally posted by PATbb
Having an easy pool play schedule allows you to still get into the gold bracket and at the same time you are able to save a lot of pitching as opposed to playing in a tough pool and having to use pitching in order to get into the Gold bracket making it more difficult to win thru to the Ship. It would be interesting to see these "major" teams have to play one another occasionally in pool play and have to eat some pitching during pool play much like the rest (AAA) of the teams have to do in order to make sure they make the gold bracket and thru to the ship.
Come to a USSSA tourney to see the "major" teams play one another.....We play with different sanctioning bodies every weekend and other than TC we play other "major" teams the entire weekend!!
I agree 100% with what Coach Kirksey said as well about saving pitching, playing a couple AAA teams keeps the top 3-4 kids from pitching in every single game it seems like....Allowing other kids to pitch not only allows other kids to pitch but I believe it saves boys from throwing the max innings allowed from Feb-July!!
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PATbb
58 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2011 : 22:30:51
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I am sure there are exceptions, however the Braves playing Shiloh in the pool play did force the top 5 - Shiloh team into a 13th or 14th seed which then put them up against a strong 4 seed which they lost to in the first bracket round....... of course it did not affect your Braves too much as you pushed thru the 11, 13 and 2 seed to get to and beat the 8th seed Rays and win again which most of us have come to expect.
seed quote:
Originally posted by ecball
It doesn't always work out that way as we had to play shiloh in pool play in the last tc event. I think they are a top 5 team so that wasn't exactly an easy draw.
Another advantage for seeding the pool play is that many major teams will throw some other kids against non major teams thus making for better games and giving more kids pitching opportunities. By doing this it saves the top pitchers arms from over use. The issue I have with the usssa tie breaker is that they do it based on runs allowed so if a team is up by 15 runs they still end up pitching their top kids in order to limit the runs in a blow out.
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Spartan4
913 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2011 : 23:16:51
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| That didn't exactly make sense, by allowing kids who don't normally get a chance to pitch you rest your teams top arms or at least try to limit the amount of pitches they throw. Also, the other boys get an opportunity to work on pitching, holding runners, pick off moves and other things that those boys don't usually get to do. |
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yankeedad
133 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2011 : 08:44:55
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I really like the rationale that TC uses for their pool play games & the explanation Tony provided was well done.
@ecball
I agree 100% and like the points you provided. TC does a really good job with their Tie Break Seeding procedure and Run differential maximum(Maximum run spread per game is 7 regardless of score).
I like the Run differential maximum the best and here is why:
1. It levels the playing field when there is an error in seeding & a one team spanks another team that is playing poorly.
2. It takes away the incentive to pound on another team which can be demoralizing to 11 year olds. I cant blame a coach for running the score up as much as possible if it will help their seeding for Sunday. If a coach knows the most he will get out of a win is 7 runs then he is less likely to win by 20.
3. This also helps with Tie Break scenarios(See points 2,3,4,5 below)
The Tie Break is good because is rewards overall performance followed by defensive performance:
Two Way Tie
1. Head to Head between tied teams
2. Total Run differential
3. Runs Allowed
4. Runs Scored
5. Actual run differential in last pool game
6. Coin Flip
I got this specific info from the bottom of the Showdown in Savannah bracket page & assume this is standard practice for TC:
http://www.triplecrownsports.com/showbracketgen_gameinfo.asp?tournyid=4281&divisionid=81
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umpstake
2 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2011 : 13:43:42
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quote:
Originally posted by moccs
Amazing how well TC creates the matchups to make sure that the teams have a chance to get in their prospective brackets. You dont see many games where the top teams play each other in pool play or the lower teams play each other in pool play. Do they use usssa rankings , nations or head to head in any way or just triple crown results ? It is definitely not a blind draw. Dont see many suprises in pool and look to see Braves - Longhorns-Shiloh- Rays- 6-4-3, Yankees ,Springs Black and Wills Park Titans in Gold ..
AND EC TITANS |
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tae281
447 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2011 : 20:30:24
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quote:
Originally posted by moccs
Amazing how well TC creates the matchups to make sure that the teams have a chance to get in their prospective brackets. You dont see many games where the top teams play each other in pool play or the lower teams play each other in pool play. Do they use usssa rankings , nations or head to head in any way or just triple crown results ? It is definitely not a blind draw. Dont see many suprises in pool and look to see Braves - Longhorns-Shiloh- Rays- 6-4-3, Yankees ,Springs Black and Wills Park Titans in Gold ..
mocs,
WP Titans and Longhorns are playing in pool as are the WP Warriors and Rays so that's two good match ups. Sharon Springs has to play the Yankees who are playing really well so there are some good pool games but you will not see the top teams like the Stars, Braves or Rays play each other in pool but it makes Sunday's bracket much more interesting. |
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