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loveit
26 Posts |
 Posted - 03/10/2011 : 16:51:04
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| My son's pitching coach commented that he couldn't believe that these kids are still pitching at 50' with the speeds they are pitching at! He said, "do you know how hard it is to hit that speed at that distance!?" (This coach pitched in college world series, drafted into the majors and now works with MLB pitchers. He is well qualified.) It got me to thinking. Are these Major level pitchers so skilled that, really, they have a powerful advantage over the batter? Was the 50' length created with more of the Little League skill level in mind? What are your thoughts on the learning curve for a batter used to AAA pitching just entering the Major level arena. What is the effect once they move to 54' next year and then 60' the following year? |
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BREAMKING
323 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2011 : 22:22:38
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| I think when they changed age date to allow older kids it made the fences to short and the distance to close. I wish they would have never changed it. Any park before the date change fences are way to short. In late 80's had a 6ft 1 12 year old that could throw 72 and he was a freak. Now that is not as rare to see. |
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sward
369 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2011 : 23:58:58
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| Offspeed is the difference. Look at the change from 46 to 50. It will be similar from 50 to 54 and 54 to 60. The CU is more of a game changer....not just that but a pitch on the black at 50 could turn into a ball 6-8 inches off the plate at 54. Hitting the black is tougher. |
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G-Man
326 Posts |
Posted - 03/11/2011 : 01:23:36
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This is a great topic. This is one of the reasons I have been talking about how the game changes when you hit the big field. After 12u forget having a multitude of pitchers carry a team by shuting down a team's hitting. What is also scary is the fact that there are kids out there who will hit those 70 + mph pitchers from 50ft. I believe more now than back when I played ball or even any of my players when they played at the younger age groups. Thats a testiment to the progession of baseball and these young men.
I personally believe at 12u it should be 54/80 and at 13u and beyond its 60/90. The game really doesnt start till you hit that 60/90 field. There are too many more variables beyond a 50/70 field that have to be overcome in order to have success.
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 03/11/2011 : 07:55:31
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From the Little League World Series distance of 46', hitters' reaction times are similar to that of Major Leaguer's when the pitchers are throwing in the high 60's to low 70's. The TV network televising the LLWS would show a small graphic after each pitch showing the MLB mph equivalent using hitter reaction time as the basis for comparison.
I think the lightweight aluminum/composite bats our 12u boys use today, and the additional 4 feet (we use 50 feet not 46 like Little League) makes the pitcher's advantage "fair". Highly skilled hitters are still able to to hit .300+ against highly skilled pitchers. Now when you get to the Elite level pitcher who throws 70+ mph with a breaking ball and a change up, it does seem to get a bit lopsided.
12u is considered a "pitchers year" as compared to 11u and 13u where the mound distance favors the hitters.
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HITANDRUN
436 Posts |
Posted - 03/11/2011 : 08:14:01
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| Imagine facing these same pitchers at 46 feet like Little League? I think Bream hit it on the head though. |
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KoopsDad
73 Posts |
Posted - 03/11/2011 : 13:11:26
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quote:
Originally posted by HITANDRUN
Imagine facing these same pitchers at 46 feet like Little League?
For the better hitters, i do not think hitting the 70's fastball from 50 ft is that difficult once you are used to seeing it. My son's team played Columbus in the LL State finals last year in Columbus with their ace regularly hitting 78-79 on the JUGs gune for the first 3 innings and that is from 46 ft. We hit him well (4 HRs and none cheap) because our boys were "turned up" for him. In my opinion, the problem with 46 or 50 ft for 12 yr olds is that the pitcher is too close to the plate with the bats these boys are swinging. I dont care how good your reaction time is, there will be balls hit so hard that you have no prayer of catching and you can only hope that the ball does not hit you in the head. I've seen that happen off the bat of a 12 yr old and directly into the eye of the pitcher. Kid had no chance. Forget the hitters....they can handle it. It is the pitchers that there should be concern for at this age. |
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bball2008
100 Posts |
Posted - 03/11/2011 : 13:36:31
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It seems to me that the 46' mound used by LL not only gives an exponential advantage to the pitchers but causes some horrific swing mechanics by the hitters. 8 out of 10 never even take a full swing. I think it's become a safety risk for both pitcher and hitter to be squaring off from 46' at 12-13yrs old.
It is very apparent that the above avg hitters will hit any fastball by 12u or 13u nowadays whereas back when we were kids those 1 or 2 freak pitchers that threw 70+ mph remained unhittable until practically high school. I have to believe that the abundance of curve balls/football pitches/breaking balls we see at the younger age groups now is due to the incredible advancement of young hitters today(as well as overzealous coaches and parents). The only breaking balls we saw at 10, 11 or 12 back in the day was a funky sidearm version that rarely found the strike zone and wasn't overly effective. |
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loveit
26 Posts |
Posted - 03/11/2011 : 14:29:16
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Thank you all for your responses. Such great insight that I knew I would get here!
I am just trying to gain perspective on what my son is experiencing. We were AAA last year and have now been moved up to Major level. In the two tournaments that we have participated, he has had a handful of at bats. Though he has made contact and even had a F8 & F9, he is struggling. My first instinct is to be concerned as to weather he will be able to achieve batting success at this level. After his pitching coach said what he did about the distance being so short(with no knowledge of my son's batting struggles), it gave me pause. Maybe there is a very tall learning curve he needs to scale to become skilled at 12u Major batting.
KoopsDad,
You use the phrase "once you are used to seeing it". What do you think that timeline would be to a kid new to Major pitching? Also, I agree with your concern for the pitcher. I saw that kid get hit in the eye. Worst thing I ever saw on a baseball field!!
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KoopsDad
73 Posts |
Posted - 03/11/2011 : 15:38:58
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quote:
Originally posted by loveit
You use the phrase "once you are used to seeing it". What do you think that timeline would be to a kid new to Major pitching?
This is a hard question to answer because i think it totally depends on the kids talent level. With major pitchers, it is not necessarily a speed difference but also command, pitch variety, control, AND speed. I have seen many AAA pitchers that could pitch major so you are probably seeing some similar pitching already....just not a team full.
The truly elite teams like the one i am with now (Bandits) may be blessed with a staff of elite major pitchers, but that is more the exception that the rule. In general the major difference between AAA and a true major team is just overall better play in ALL aspects of the game and quality players top to bottom...not just with the pitching. |
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baseballpapa
1520 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2011 : 07:05:57
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| Papa will pitch batting practice sometimes and the kids did the math to determine what type heat Papa was bringing. The tests proved that Papa pitching from 22.7 feet translated into a 40 mph changeup. The only problem was is the pitch they calculated was my fastball. I have given up pitching and will stick to posting. There is a saying on the baseball forums that the pen is mightier than the bat. |
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2011 : 08:43:08
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bball2008 "8 out of 10 never even take a full swing"
bball, I too noticed all the short choppy slap swings at the LLWS last few years, but since so many kids were swinging like that, I figured that there must be a reason for it because it didn't look normal, or fundamentally correct.
I surmised that only the strongest and quickest hitters could swing the bat normally with sound fundamentals and still get the bat into the hit area vs. 70+ pitching from 46 feet. All the rest had to alter their swings to catch up to the ball. By altering, I mean they eliminate the timing step with the front foot, the loading is reduced or eliminated, and there is less hip rotation. They just pull their hands towards the anticipated contact point hoping to make solid contact. All other movement is reduced or eliminated. |
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