| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| kbuck |
Posted - 11/04/2009 : 14:54:35
I would like your opinion on something. I am a tournament director with a new organization and I have noticed and heard of a few things that has me concerned about tournament baseball.
First off, let me say that I got into this "business" to help promote youth sports and to provide a great experience to youth baseball teams in the state of Georgia. I have two kids that play travel baseball and I enjoy being around the park and watching kids play ball. Don't get me wrong, I do this to make money as well but it is not the driving factor for why I do it. I do it because I enjoy it!
My question to you is when do you know this has gotten out of hand? Certain people with USSSA have been getting ugly with, fussing at, some teams that play in other organization's events. This is childish in my opinion. All organizations are going to have to compete with each other no matter what. That is fine and that is a part of running a business. That is actually good for the teams. But bad mouthing other organizations because they pose a "threat" is unacceptable. You as coaches and parents should not condone this behavior. We should all get along the best we can and be respectable and do our best to provide the better product and teams will want to play in our events instead of taking the threatening route.
I am sorry I had to bring this up but I just had to get it off my chest and wanted to see if anyone else has been esposed to the bad mouthing. I will continue to hold tournaments and try to do the best I can for the teams. Anything outside of that is beyond my control.
Good luck to all of you next spring and hope to see you on the field. |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| kingofthehill |
Posted - 11/19/2009 : 15:53:29
They are in it for the money. It's a business. Their roster policy has more loop holes than the IRS tax codes. What I am reading here is the same stuff that goes on in Ohio. They act like they are the only game in town. Director doesn't return calls and they cater to certain teams. |
| gausssa |
Posted - 11/15/2009 : 19:26:23
That is a National Office "I.T." issue. However, i'm going to the National Meeting this week in California. I will inquire about that. Hey, never hurts to ask right? |
| Alter-Ego |
Posted - 11/15/2009 : 19:03:17
I agree Titan. As a parent, I would like to see my own kid's info to ensure it is correct. I don't want to find out after the fact. |
| bmoser |
Posted - 11/15/2009 : 16:32:25
Alter-Ego:
Correct. I didn't bring that up because its not the getting released part that gets folks into trouble, its the adds. Great advice on printing out the current rosters (there's a "current" tab at the top of each teams roster. The first screen that pops open is NOT their current roster, its every boy who's come, stayed, and left.
Titan1: I have no doubt "a team who will remain nameless" got hosed out of a State Championship. Returning protest cash, then not enforcing the rules. Scooby Doo shakes his head and says "huuh?"
Its easy to determine the date a player became frozen, but its impossible to tell which roster he was on April 1st (unless he played a tourney the weekend before AND the weekend after April 1st). That is the elusive piece of data that must be made visible for all to see and print out to take to tourneys. |
| Titan1 |
Posted - 11/14/2009 : 23:55:55
USSSA needs to add the dates to the coaches page to show when a players was froze on a team. Only tournament directors can assess this information |
| Alter-Ego |
Posted - 11/14/2009 : 18:25:53
bmoser,
One thing to add to your "Frozen" roster discussion: a player on a frozen roster CAN be released from that roster and added to another team's roster. He just can't return to any roster he is release from. Once a roster is Frozen, the team can release as many of the players they want, but can only add 3 players.
My advice to teams playing USSSA tournaments; once you get your game schedule, check the "Active" roster for the teams you are playing and print them out. Carry the copies with you to the tournament and compare that to the line-up the other team gives you. |
| Titan1 |
Posted - 11/13/2009 : 23:20:20
I checked with Matt Trebuchon, he said only major rosters where froze at the super nit.
quote:
Originally posted by Alter-Ego
Titan1,
Yes, your Roster should be frozen now based on the rules. You can release as many as you want to but can only pick up 3.
I would check with Bubba Smith at USSSA to be sure, though.
This is the drawback to playing in the fall Super NIT's.
|
| bmoser |
Posted - 11/13/2009 : 18:59:44
Not the way I understand it. Anything goes until 2010. I would be sure to delete/release any players who will not be with you moving forward. Its kind of the wild wild West until April 1st 2010. I'd say March 15th, you had better review your roster, and clean it up.
quote:
Originally posted by Titan1
We won a fall Super NIT AAA, is my roster froze? I was told by the tournament director that it is not froze. We had submit an online roster.
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| bmoser |
Posted - 11/13/2009 : 18:29:39
gausssa,
Be careful about using the word "always". "Open" States...I am in error, there is an open World Series...Senior moment on my part. I'm just glad to have some ussaa officials entering our dialogue. We want usssa to right its ship and succeed. Great concept, execution needs work. |
| Alter-Ego |
Posted - 11/13/2009 : 15:06:31
Titan1,
Yes, your Roster should be frozen now based on the rules. You can release as many as you want to but can only pick up 3.
I would check with Bubba Smith at USSSA to be sure, though.
This is the drawback to playing in the fall Super NIT's. |
| Titan1 |
Posted - 11/13/2009 : 11:21:44
We won a fall Super NIT AAA, is my roster froze? I was told by the tournament director that it is not froze. We had submit an online roster. |
| teddy41 |
Posted - 11/13/2009 : 11:09:17
shouldnt coaches learn the rules via a rule book or having played baseball? Dad's do not need to know the rules, they need to cheer their team.
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| teddy41 |
Posted - 11/13/2009 : 11:07:11
by open i meant that if you pay entry fee you can usually get in..all organizations now let anyone in so to keep the money in house. Last year triple crown gave a bid to every team in the field |
| gausssa |
Posted - 11/13/2009 : 06:55:03
bmoser
I like the idea of having a rules meeting for coach's. However Rick Cosper (although a dear friend of mine) works for Nations Baseball and i don't think would have an interest in doing a USSSA meeting. I am going to give that some thought and see if i can make it happen. Timing and locations would be key. |
| gausssa |
Posted - 11/13/2009 : 06:46:02
There is no such thing as an "open" State Tournament as all teams have to play in class but yes we have given atlarge bids in order to complete the field. Those bids always go to a teams that has played sub-state events and just fell short of making it. However, i for one have never been crazy about the sub-state format. Look for some changes in the USSSA post season format for 2010. If it works out, i think teams will like it much better. |
| bmoser |
Posted - 11/12/2009 : 18:25:48
Partially correct. To play in States at a particular age and a certain class, you have to qualify in a sub-state tourney (or get a deal from a USSSA official which I feel undermines the entire process...but it happens).
"Open" is a term that refers to a tourney that allows any classification to compete at the same age group. So far as I know, no qualifying criteria apply.
quote:
Originally posted by teddy41
why would you qualify to play in a state tournament..most are all open for anyone to register for
|
| teddy41 |
Posted - 11/12/2009 : 11:31:41
why would you qualify to play in a state tournament..most are all open for anyone to register for |
| gausssa |
Posted - 11/12/2009 : 10:55:41
bmoser, you are correct about the 72 hours and a kid must be released from one frozen roster before he can be added to another. The bottom line is this, with over 3,000 teams registered USSSA in Georgia it is impossible to check every teams roster every day. Coach's have there own user id and password to make changes to there roster and the roster system is used everyday. We do leave it up to the coach's to police there own teams roster and the teams they are playing against. (if they so desire) I coached travel ball for years and played lots of USSSA ball and i never went into a game with out first checking the other teams roster to make sure they were leagel. Please understand that there is nothing wrong with that. You have to play by the rules, why shouldn't the next guy and trust me fellows, some people will cheat. |
| bmoser |
Posted - 11/12/2009 : 10:22:32
Rick Cosper:
There are a lot of Coaches and Dad's on this posting board who do not have the proper understanding of the usssa rules. Why not have a meeting 1X/yr in a central location (South ATL burbs) for Coaches/parents to attend? Charge a few bucks to offset the cost. These complex rules require explanation/interpretation.
I know the rules and players well enough, that if I wanted to, after April 1st, I could protest ineligible players on nearly every team we play, win the protest, make them forfeit, and send them home. Coaches don't know the rules, or are knowingly breaking them CONSTANTLY. Most don't know the rules. Very few are knowingly breaking them in my opinion.
We inform the opposing coach of his infraction and give him the chance to remove that player from his roster before the start of the game. If he doesn't, we WILL protest, and take the W.
|
| bmoser |
Posted - 11/12/2009 : 10:02:30
oldmanmj: You had no issues only because no opposing coach protested. Contrary to popular belief, USSSA does not police all this, its up to the Coaches. You got lucky, and could have been sent home very disappointed. Yes, players can be added up to 72 hours beforehand, but there are 4 conditions that added player must meet (see rule 3.12.B.1-4). By your son winning a State tourney, he became frozen to that teams roster, and was ineligible to join another team at the same age group to play in the Elite 24. Had an opposing Coach noticed it, and protested, he would have won, and that game would have been forfeited.
A player becomes frozen when his team "qualifies". "Qualifies" has 3 meanings:
1) most common meaning is that a team played in a local qualifier and did well enough to "qualify" for that age groups/classifications World Series (which 90% of teams never attend). This is 1 way to freeze players to teams, and know this: most usssa tourneys are this type of qualifier, and you don't need to win to qualify. You can come in 4th of 8 teams and qualify, thus freezing your son to that team come April 1st (if you qualified by playing prior to April 1st) and if your son remains on that roster, or he is immediately frozen if he qualifies after April 1st.
2) "Qualifying" also means qualifying to play States. Teams typically need to qualify to play States by winning or coming in 2nd at a sub-state tourney. There are multiple sub-state tourneys you can attend over a 3 week time span in June to try to qualify for States. These sub-state tourneys also immediately freeze your son to that team if the team qualifies for States since these sub states are all held after April 1st.
3) The 3rd meaning of "qualifying" is winning a Super NIT to qualify for the Elite 24 World Series at Disney. This also immediately freezes your son to that team (rule 3.09.C).
quote:
Originally posted by oldmanmj
I have had two play with a major team that did not qualify after playing in multiple Super NIT's. One of them won the USSSA State. They were both invited to play in the Elite 24 for a team that had qualified. No issues even though the roster was frozen. You can make changes up to 72 hours before the tournament.
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| kbuck |
Posted - 11/12/2009 : 00:27:44
Nations Baseball has a classification system and rankings as well. |
| oldmanmj |
Posted - 11/11/2009 : 19:14:54
I have had two play with a major team that did not qualify after playing in multiple Super NIT's. One of them won the USSSA State. They were both invited to play in the Elite 24 for a team that had qualified. No issues even though the roster was frozen. You can make changes up to 72 hours before the tournament. |
| teddy41 |
Posted - 11/11/2009 : 16:54:19
whits and 10BB got it right |
| 10 BB |
Posted - 11/11/2009 : 15:21:23
I took advantage of the phone number that Mr. Smith gave and called him. He is the Tournament Operations Director for the State of Georgia. He is a heck of a nice guy and can answer any question you may have. USSSA is the only youth organization that has a classification and ranking system. Many of the organizations use the AA, AAA and major classification that USSSA provides. He's not going to come on this site and sling mud but he will answer questions and vowed to check this site from time to time. |
| kbuck |
Posted - 11/11/2009 : 14:43:26
Sorry about that. I used the wrong word. I meant to say frozen not qualified. Sorry about that. |
