| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| goyard |
Posted - 10/11/2009 : 22:40:54
OK...be interested in hearing from you on the foundation of playing the great game of baseball as a "priviledge" to a player If grades are not up to par or other negative aspects...how have you used integrated baseball as a "priviledge" or "not"? |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| AllStar |
Posted - 10/26/2009 : 09:53:59
quote:
Originally posted by kingofthehill
Holy cow!!!!!1400 that seems high.
1500 is average. You're probably thinking about back in the day when there were only 2 parts of the test and 1600 was perfect.
quote:
Originally posted by kingofthehill
The one that took care of business in the classroom is going to get the extra look. That makes sense.
Just so they didn't let their 12 YO team down while they were struggling with 6th grade math. ;) |
| kingofthehill |
Posted - 10/26/2009 : 09:31:14
Holy cow!!!!!1400 that seems high. What is that in ACT terms? I know a bunch of kids that better get to work. Of course I suppose this is a good way to seperate a lot of players. i.e. if all the skills are equal or close then go with the smart kid. The one that took care of business in the classroom is going to get the extra look. That makes sense. |
| gasbag |
Posted - 10/23/2009 : 16:33:57
I pulled the link to this article off of another post in the 14U group. Some interesting comments regarding "student athletes" and college baseball.
http://roundthird.blogspot.com/2009/09/freshman-recruitingtraining.html#links
You'll have to copy and paste it in your browser. Some colleges are minimally looking at baseball players with 3.2 gpa and SAT's of 1400 or higher ! |
| kingofthehill |
Posted - 10/22/2009 : 09:07:42
Man thats some good stuff gassy. I disagree about the professional wrestling thou. Those guys are tough and make a lot of money. I would be okay if my son wanted to be a pro wrestler. I would want him to be one of those masked guys like Wrestling #2.
Oooooo you might consider cutting your post down a little. I fell asleep about half way thru it. Woke up 3 hours later and finished the other half. You have definatly cured my insomnia. |
| gasbag |
Posted - 10/21/2009 : 18:19:30
I know there are many ways to deal with the issue and if they work for you, they may be the right answer ...for you. I am a parent first and a coach second. I tell my child as well as the kids on my team, that until they get out of high school or college, they are considered "STUDENT ATHLETES". Success scholastically for students is not just the straight A kids ! Not every kid is as gifted scholastically just like not every kid is gifted athletically. However, they must always spend the time necessary to "tend to their business". That goes for both school and sports. I tell the boys I coach ( and their parents ), that if they are getting an F or a D, they may want to focus more on their studies and getting their grades up and then come back to our sport ( in my case wrestling ). I 'll discuss with their parents what they think would be most appropriate to get their grades up and help reinforce what their parents decide for them. I can't lose site of the fact that I truly do care for the kids and I want to see them succeed in the classroom, the wrestling room and in life !
Now wrestling is a unique sport in the sense that their is no "professional" opportunities for real wrestling. You can't be drafted because there is no professional wrestling ( I don't consider the TV fake stuff wrestling...that's wrastling ! ). That makes it easier as a coach to stress academics to my team. In some other sports, things get clouded because there is big money associated with them However, what happens if your child doesn't make it as a professional ? I wish every kid that wanted to play pro ball could fulfill his wish someday...the facts would suggest however, that only very small and fortunate few ever get to see that dream to fruition. If or when that time occurs, I'd sure like them to be prepared for an alternate route in life.
I coach and parent, to try and develop a well rounded kid, whom someday will have to stand on his own. If school or athletics gets out of balance, things usually begin to suffer elsewhere. Again, straight A's in K-8, are no guarantee you'll be a success in life in the future...just like being the stud athlete at grades K-8 don't assure you of professional stardom !
Lastly, what if your son's dream changes from being that pro ballplayer to becoming a doctor ? I'd hate to allow him to get too far behind the 8 ball because his dream changed. What did you want to be when you were little ? I know I probably changed my mind at least a dozen times ! Heck, I'm 50 and I'm still not sure what I want to be when I grow up !
BALANCE...I'm just saying.... |
| lottapop |
Posted - 10/21/2009 : 15:32:12
agreed!!!!!
quote:
Originally posted by bballman
I said it before, I'll say it again - every kid and every family is different. I was not the athlete CC Sabathia is, nowhere near, but my father tried the same strategy with me in football. My response was to not bother playing again. Mostly out of stubbornness. My son loves baseball and is very good at it. If he responded the way I did, he would lose the biggest thing he cares about. We use it to motivate him in terms of using it as an incentive to get good grades to be able to make it to the next level. ie, if you want to play baseball at a good college, you need the grades. We give examples of kids who did not get to go to school for baseball because of grades. We talk about what is needed to take the next step. What we do not do is use baseball as a consequence for the grades.
Is baseball a commitment? Absolutely. If the coach wants to bench him for grades or behavior, I will support him 100%. Will I tell him if you don't get straight A's you can't play baseball - no, I will not. If he doesn't get the grades to play ball at the school he wants, then he will learn a tough lesson. Each individual and each family is different. May work for you, doesn't work for me.
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| kingofthehill |
Posted - 10/21/2009 : 14:54:54
I see your point. But your theory suggests that the team is better off because he never tried out. Are you saying that the team couldn't have been better with him? He obviously played with these kids before. Therefore i am sure they were counting on him to play. Now you said that pulling him off the team after he was on it could cause more harm. But you listed no examples. I never said that the kid should be pulled away from sports all together or from the team all together. But to hold him out of a game or a practice surely will not be the end of the world.
I am sure that mom could see his future starting to open up in baseball or football. But she used this example to make a very lasting point. He said so himself. Obviously as parents there is not a perfect answer to this question. But the rules at my house are very clear and up front. There is some leway for mistakes. But he understands the penalty for poor judgement and or poor grades (never said he had to make all A). And he would rather die than let his teammates down. If more children/athletes felt that this was an option then maybe they would steer clear of trouble.
I also realize that every child is different. That not all children make all A's. There is no blanket answer to this. And my son has good days and bad. However, I know when he is not trying or when he is not giving a good effort. And you as a parent should have a gut compass on when your child is OB or not. My biggest point is not to hide behind the "letting teammates down" idea because you think it may ruin Lil Johnny's future.If he is letting his grades slip or is acting up at school or around the house then there is a very good chance he is going to be letting his teammates down too. Good habits at home lead to good habits at school that lead to good habits at the ball field. IMO
quote:
Originally posted by 6-4-3
quote:
Originally posted by kingofthehill
Did any of you hear the story the other day on Mike and Mike about CC Sabathia? He was the best basketball player in the school as well as other sports. He was a hero at the school for sure. His grades got out of line, he was acting up at school. He was not taking care of his business(being a student). All this happened right before basketball tryouts. His mom would not let him try out for basketball therefore he did not play that year. CC said it was one of the biggest turning points of his life. Did he let his teammates down? Absolutely!!! Did it have a lasting effect? Absolutely!!
Kingofthehill -
CC was not allowed to "tryout" because of his grades, thus he didnt hurt the team because he wasnt on it yet. There is a distinction, no harm no foul. However, I agree 100% with his momma.
I dont feel that pulling a kid off of a team after he is on it is the answer, and may create more harm than good. From Wikipedia:
"Sabathia attended Vallejo High School, where he lettered in baseball, basketball, and football. In baseball, he compiled a mark of 6–0 with an 0.77 ERA (46.2 IP, 14 H, 82 K) during his senior season. Coming out of the draft he was the top high school prospect in Northern California according to Baseball America.
In football, he was an all-conference tight end. He received scholarship offers to play college football, including one from USC, and actually signed a letter of intent to attend the University of Hawai#699;i.[1]"
This is interesting, no mention of any promising basketball career after HS. Do you think his momma knew that basketball wasn't the highest priority anyway, other than grades? Was it safe to take him away from BB and not ruin his Football or Baseball options later? If so, she has to be the smartest parent that I have ever read about.
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| whits23 |
Posted - 10/21/2009 : 14:43:37
does the opposite work..if my kid does not do good in baseball he cant go to school on monday |
| bballman |
Posted - 10/21/2009 : 13:22:28
I said it before, I'll say it again - every kid and every family is different. I was not the athlete CC Sabathia is, nowhere near, but my father tried the same strategy with me in football. My response was to not bother playing again. Mostly out of stubbornness. My son loves baseball and is very good at it. If he responded the way I did, he would lose the biggest thing he cares about. We use it to motivate him in terms of using it as an incentive to get good grades to be able to make it to the next level. ie, if you want to play baseball at a good college, you need the grades. We give examples of kids who did not get to go to school for baseball because of grades. We talk about what is needed to take the next step. What we do not do is use baseball as a consequence for the grades.
Is baseball a commitment? Absolutely. If the coach wants to bench him for grades or behavior, I will support him 100%. Will I tell him if you don't get straight A's you can't play baseball - no, I will not. If he doesn't get the grades to play ball at the school he wants, then he will learn a tough lesson. Each individual and each family is different. May work for you, doesn't work for me. |
| kingofthehill |
Posted - 10/21/2009 : 09:49:32
If team sports teach disipline, teamwork, and sportsmanship then shouldn't Lil Johnny also be learning to NOT let down his teammates by doing something stupid or being irresponsible by making bad decisions or grades. What is the most important thing to your kid? Probably baseball or sports...his time with his baseball buddies. What is the most influential element in your child's life right now(hopefully besides parents and God)?
Peer pressure.
Your son wants nothing more than to be accepted by his friends/teammates. My child does not care enough about X-box, TV, bike, 4 wheeler, golf clubs, girls, cell phones to make a BIg impact as a disipline measure. But if he thinks for one minute he may not get to play ball with his team, everything seems to change in his efforts and attitude.
It only took once to make a believer out of him. He was acting up at school and his grades suffered(not a one time offender). He was made to sit out a game because of this. He let his teammates down and he would die before he did it again. Getting to play ball is a privledge. It is not a right. I hate it that he let his teammates down. But in the big picture he learned a valuable lesson and children are perceptive. His teammates learned the same lesson. In the big picture it was one game in baseball but it could make a life lesson for him and others.
Did any of you hear the story the other day on Mike and Mike about CC Sabathia? He was the best basketball player in the school as well as other sports. He was a hero at the school for sure. His grades got out of line, he was acting up at school. He was not taking care of his business(being a student). All this happened right before basketball tryouts. His mom would not let him try out for basketball therefore he did not play that year. CC said it was one of the biggest turning points of his life. Did he let his teammates down? Absolutely!!! Did it have a lasting effect? Absolutely!! She realized that one day sports may not be there for him. She realized that being in a class room and failing was letting people (teachers, classmates, school, teammates) down too.
I think too often we try and cover NOT taking sports away because of the effect it will have on "teammates". But what effect does Lil Johnny's actions(grades, attitude,effort) have on his "teammates"? I say profound. And we also may not take sports away for selfish reasons that we are not willing to admit. Like lossing the sons spot on the team, we may miss him hitting a HR or going 4 for 4, or not being there for the "big game" at 10u.
For 99.99999% of you, sports will not be there for your children as a career. Face it. Sports are absolutely valuable to life lessons for all. Be careful to not miss opportunities to teach your children. IMO. |
| AA17Dad |
Posted - 10/20/2009 : 19:10:28
quote:
Originally posted by 6-4-3
Actually, baseball is a responsability, not a priviledge, once your committed to a team. Xbox, TV, playing outside are priviledges can be taken away with only the kid feeling the pain.
I would never take baseball away because you are only hurting the other kids, coaches and parents because you, as a parent, failed to instill that grades are of the highest priority. Its never baseballs fault, its time management. Your kid should be able to manage baseball and school because the older you get, multitasking only gets worse. If your kid cannot multitask priorities by now, your in trouble.
God, Family, Grades, Friends, Baseball. I assure you that if you succeed at teaching your kids the first 4, the latter will be in order as well and they will play much longer than the rest.
Well said.
It is about parenting.
Allstar...you mention Cop-out. Not hardly. A player and their family do have a "responsability" to the TEAM. I sure don't want anyone that agrees with you on my team.
Now if your kid is struggling academically then it may be wise to skip a season. Or if your playing rec ball a guess it wouldn't matter much either.
But if you are playing travel ball you have made a commitment to play and you should honor that commitment. Others are counting on you.
There are alot of parenting options....I'd say you are coping out.
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| Tball |
Posted - 10/20/2009 : 18:12:20
All to often parents want to take away team sports for punishment when they should be taking away tv. time or xbox time because the team sports teach disipline, teamwork, and sportsmanship. |
| cop311 |
Posted - 10/20/2009 : 16:32:48
I completely agree that team sports are a great way to instill many of the positive traits we wish to provide to our children. We coach, train and practice so that our kids can get better and help the team to be better. We teach our kids to know and play by the rules so that they don't jeopardize their team's chances at victory. We also need to teach our kids that choices they make have a ripple effect, including the potential to let down their coaches and teammates. Every bowl season, you hear of at least one player that gets sent home before the game for off-field conduct. Last year, Alabama suspended their All-America tackle prior to the Sugar Bowl. Coach Saban's comments are below:
"The University of Alabama, the team and the football program are more important than any individual player," Saban said in a statement. "Everyone on our team depends on each other to be responsible, to make good choices and decisions relative to their actions."
The problem is most college and pro teams suspend players because their off field actions cause more damage to the TEAM rather than to the PLAYER.This might mean reputation damage/scholarship/fines/bad press etc. In the case of the Alabama player it was because he had agent dealings which causes penalties to the team. Thats what Saban meant by "The University of Alabama, the team and the football program are more important than any individual player". When our kids do something stupid/make bad grades it really is only harmful to the player and does no real damage to the team. The only damage is done by keeping him out. i say make him do more chores or take away anything else. |
| lottapop |
Posted - 10/19/2009 : 17:04:47
Bravo......great post bbman. There is no right or wrong answer, we as parents do the best we can and do what works for our kids. IMO...coaches decide when baseball should be used as a punishment. You throw a helment..sit...you cry/pout...sit...etc
That being said....my kids know up front, you cause problems, you deal with daddy. :) Normally I just give them the oL stinkeye and they get my drift.
quote:
Originally posted by bballman
I guess you know everything since you are "in the know". There is no right answer. Everyone has their own reasons for doing things. In, you are judging others by calling our choices a "cop-out". There are plenty of other options for consequences. Because I (and others) do not use baseball, does not mean we are coping out.
Just like some will spank, others won't. Some believe the US government should use all means possible to gain information from terrorists and some don't. Some believe in government run healthcare and others don't. It is a personal choice based on past experiences and beliefs. Those who don't use baseball as a consequence are not lower level people. They just choose other options.
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| goyard |
Posted - 10/19/2009 : 16:25:57
I would have to agree that what works for one family may not be the best answer for another. I followed through with the "Opening Day" retraction this past weekend and my boy is working double time to make sure he is included on the next hunt. I know it wasn't baseball but something that I would put equivocal on his "like" meter. If it doesn't do the trick I'll discuss with the coach....so far so good |
| bballman |
Posted - 10/19/2009 : 15:25:01
I guess you know everything since you are "in the know". There is no right answer. Everyone has their own reasons for doing things. In, you are judging others by calling our choices a "cop-out". There are plenty of other options for consequences. Because I (and others) do not use baseball, does not mean we are coping out.
Just like some will spank, others won't. Some believe the US government should use all means possible to gain information from terrorists and some don't. Some believe in government run healthcare and others don't. It is a personal choice based on past experiences and beliefs. Those who don't use baseball as a consequence are not lower level people. They just choose other options. |
| AllStar |
Posted - 10/19/2009 : 12:56:24
quote:
Originally posted by in_the_know
One of the most interesting justifications (cop outs in my opinion) for not tying a kid's privilege to participate in baseball is the "it's a team sport and he/we have a commitment ot the team" argument. It's absolutely ridiculous to allow poor behavior, grades and/or attitude to occur or continue and allow a kid to play an extra-curricular team sport because of this "commitment" argument. Use that as part of the lesson. Explain that there are minimum acceptable standards and that if he/she doesn't live up to the minimum, then they are letting their team down. We had a situation a year ago where my wife was taking my son to practice (immediately prior to a tournament, so it was an important practice) and he was being disrespectful. He ignored her warnings to stop the disrespect, so she turned the car around, went home, and sent him to bed. The next practice, he was required to go to the coach, explain why he missed practice and apologize. Basically, he's taught that he's responsible for his behavior and that his actions affect others, whether it is his siblings, parents, friends, teachers, teammates or coaches. It is HIS commitment to his team and part of assuming that commitment is to also know he will have to adhere to the standards set by society in order to be able to fulfill HIS commitment. MY commitment is to cover the finance and time requirements. Kids have to be taught to be responsible for themselves. Believe me, the impact is far greater when the kid has to face his coaches and teammates and own up to the fact that HE let them down because of his actions.
I'm curious, of all the parents who wouldn't withold their child from a team sport during the season because of the team commitment, how many of them would prevent their child from trying out for, or remaining on their team the following season, when their commitment is up? I would guess the answer is zero, even though the "commitment" argument no longer holds up. That is why I made my "cop out" comment in the beginning. I believe this excuse is for parents who enjoy the travel ball experience so much themselves, that the decision is more about them than the kid.
I completely agree that team sports are a great way to instill many of the positive traits we wish to provide to our children. We coach, train and practice so that our kids can get better and help the team to be better. We teach our kids to know and play by the rules so that they don't jeopardize their team's chances at victory. We also need to teach our kids that choices they make have a ripple effect, including the potential to let down their coaches and teammates. Every bowl season, you hear of at least one player that gets sent home before the game for off-field conduct. Last year, Alabama suspended their All-America tackle prior to the Sugar Bowl. Coach Saban's comments are below:
"The University of Alabama, the team and the football program are more important than any individual player," Saban said in a statement. "Everyone on our team depends on each other to be responsible, to make good choices and decisions relative to their actions."
It's our job to begin teaching this now. If we don't someone else will.
Bravo! |
| HITANDRUN |
Posted - 10/19/2009 : 12:40:11
If your wife had been taking your son to a spelling B championship representing his school, do you think she would done the same thing? "she turned the car around, went home, and sent him to bed?" |
| in_the_know |
Posted - 10/19/2009 : 10:52:40
One of the most interesting justifications (cop outs in my opinion) for not tying a kid's privilege to participate in baseball is the "it's a team sport and he/we have a commitment ot the team" argument. It's absolutely ridiculous to allow poor behavior, grades and/or attitude to occur or continue and allow a kid to play an extra-curricular team sport because of this "commitment" argument. Use that as part of the lesson. Explain that there are minimum acceptable standards and that if he/she doesn't live up to the minimum, then they are letting their team down. We had a situation a year ago where my wife was taking my son to practice (immediately prior to a tournament, so it was an important practice) and he was being disrespectful. He ignored her warnings to stop the disrespect, so she turned the car around, went home, and sent him to bed. The next practice, he was required to go to the coach, explain why he missed practice and apologize. Basically, he's taught that he's responsible for his behavior and that his actions affect others, whether it is his siblings, parents, friends, teachers, teammates or coaches. It is HIS commitment to his team and part of assuming that commitment is to also know he will have to adhere to the standards set by society in order to be able to fulfill HIS commitment. MY commitment is to cover the finance and time requirements. Kids have to be taught to be responsible for themselves. Believe me, the impact is far greater when the kid has to face his coaches and teammates and own up to the fact that HE let them down because of his actions.
I'm curious, of all the parents who wouldn't withold their child from a team sport during the season because of the team commitment, how many of them would prevent their child from trying out for, or remaining on their team the following season, when their commitment is up? I would guess the answer is zero, even though the "commitment" argument no longer holds up. That is why I made my "cop out" comment in the beginning. I believe this excuse is for parents who enjoy the travel ball experience so much themselves, that the decision is more about them than the kid.
I completely agree that team sports are a great way to instill many of the positive traits we wish to provide to our children. We coach, train and practice so that our kids can get better and help the team to be better. We teach our kids to know and play by the rules so that they don't jeopardize their team's chances at victory. We also need to teach our kids that choices they make have a ripple effect, including the potential to let down their coaches and teammates. Every bowl season, you hear of at least one player that gets sent home before the game for off-field conduct. Last year, Alabama suspended their All-America tackle prior to the Sugar Bowl. Coach Saban's comments are below:
"The University of Alabama, the team and the football program are more important than any individual player," Saban said in a statement. "Everyone on our team depends on each other to be responsible, to make good choices and decisions relative to their actions."
It's our job to begin teaching this now. If we don't someone else will. |
| billbclk |
Posted - 10/16/2009 : 11:03:13
Lifeguard:
I like the "belt reminder". I come from a "belt reminder" era and I'm glad I did. Works for some; doesn't for others.
Oldmanmj:
We are not putting ball before school. School and grades have a built-in way of dealing with issues (No pass; No play). Also, if you are currently serving an ISS (In School Suspension) or out of school suspension you can’t play then as well.
The issue for me is preventing as many problems up front not just punishing them when they occur. Balancing school work, home life, a social life and sports prepares the kids to set priorities and budget their time.
If they fail to abide by the rules then YES take it away from them (as their school would do). The same player that has to sit out a game will go home and text his friends on his nice cell phone to come over to play X-box.
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| lifeguard |
Posted - 10/15/2009 : 19:04:15
At my house, baseball is a privilege. Grades have no bearing on whether or not he plays as much as the checkbook. Once we've signed that $,$$$ check, he is playing baseball. Grades do come first and will effect the next sport, since we have a kid that plays 3 sports. It has been rare that grades got in the way of baseball. Actually, as someone said ealier, it was more behaviour that was causing the bad grades, including detention. But bad grades during football season put starting basketball on hold, but did not effect the commitment to the football team. With no basketball looming and no x-box, cell phone, ipod, bike, parties, skate boards, outside activities, TV and a belt "reminder", he has been inspired to study. There have been no issues this school year (although it is early yet). Now that I've said it out loud, being able to play baseball is a privilege, based on his skill, desire, fun-factor and how much longer I have to work to pay for it. |
| whits23 |
Posted - 10/15/2009 : 18:33:41
teach them like real life..if your good enough the teachers will make sure you pass and a tutor can do your work. |
| oldmanmj |
Posted - 10/15/2009 : 18:15:31
If a young person, playing any sport, can't pull the grades, they need to spend their time preparing for real life and not playing. The percentage of people makeing it to the next level, College and Pro, is so nominal, that if you can't get through life with your brain, you are in trouble. It is a priviledge to play in our home. As a coach, I have asked players not to come to tournaments for grades. Also I have asked a High School Coach to sit one of my kids for an issue at home. He obliged and agreed with the punishment. Cost him the game. SCHOOL SCHOOL SCHOOL. |
| bambino_dad |
Posted - 10/15/2009 : 14:27:11
Guess I haven't read enough Dr. T. Barry Brazelton. Interesting approaches. Kinda reminds me of a Rodney Dangerfield joke:
"My parents took me to a child psychologist. That kid didn't do nuthin' for me!"
All I know is cause: effect. You don't make the grade, you don't play. It has worked so far. Baseball is a privilege - not a right. For punishment, calisthenics work. It rights the listing ship, 'cause at one point I thought I was going to have a Herschel Walker in my household with the daily amount of sit-ups and push-ups we were doing. Now? Not so much. |
| billbclk |
Posted - 10/15/2009 : 11:48:33
Actually, in the "Good Ole Days" administrators and teachers would go directly to coaches and players would run A LOT; then play. Somewhere in between what we did then and how we handle those situations now is a balance between teaching and punishment. It can't be a "one way fits all" situation.
The recent Delaware story of a Boy Scout getting suspended for bringing his camping utensil (knife/fork/spoon) to school underscores my belief that zero tolerance should come with maximum patience and understanding.
Bill Clark |
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