| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Rocky |
Posted - 10/01/2009 : 17:50:43
Do you think practicing and playing in the fall may have something to do with the rise in arm injuries. We used to play another sport soccer or football and rest the wing. Also the desire to play was enhanced because you were taking a break. Maybe everyone is just going to a one sport deal now days. |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| mikewells |
Posted - 10/22/2009 : 14:24:56
quote:
Originally posted by justin case
nike wells if that is the case how do you explain all the major league off springs that are in the major and all they did was play baseball, ken griffey, barry bonds etc.
The players you give names for are premier athletes and I am sure they could have played many other sports well maybe even at the professional level.
Im not convinced they didnt play other sports as that would be very unusual. |
| Rocky |
Posted - 10/22/2009 : 11:03:37
I will play devils advocate here, I can name a bunch of multi sport athletes in or were in the MLB, Carl Crawford, Daryl Strawberry, Bo Jackson, Deion Sanders, Jackie Robinson, Tony Gwynn, Mark Hendrickson, not to name a bunch of others that play in the NBA or NFL that could have chosen baesball instead. I think any of these guys you named though could have been great in other sports too, Bonds, Griffey, and others. An athlete will excel in whatever sport you put them if they work at it. Enjoyment is the key to all of this I dont care what the age. |
| kingofthehill |
Posted - 10/22/2009 : 10:33:34
Papa have you read this? Illinios has more MLB players than Georgia. And Ohio is not far behind. And look, Pennsylvania and NY are on there too. Where did this come from? I gotta read more. I am going to have fun with this for sure.
quote:
Originally posted by bmoser
MLB players who were active from 2004 to 2009. These are all players, not just pitchers, but I'd say this would be reflective of pitchers as a group... More from warmer climate's.
A Total of 2447 Players Found
State Count Percentage
Other Countries 668 27.3%
California 400 16.3%
Texas 165 6.7%
Florida 143 5.8%
Illinois 78 3.2%
Georgia 75 3.1%
New York 64 2.6%
Ohio 64 2.6%
Pennsylvania 47 1.9%
Louisiana 39 1.6%
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| justin case |
Posted - 10/21/2009 : 22:05:56
nike wells if that is the case how do you explain all the major league off springs that are in the major and all they did was play baseball, ken griffey, barry bonds etc. |
| kingofthehill |
Posted - 10/21/2009 : 16:25:43
I agree. Let them play. Good lord, we worry about little Johnny's arm falling off. But if he wants to play then let him play. The talent seems to be coming from the south and they play year round. I live in Cincy. It is too cold to play in the fall and winter. My father in law is a former MLB player and scout. He says take your kid south if he wants to be really good and if he wants to play year round. So I am thinking of moving close to Papa or to Vero.
I'm just saying too.....
quote:
Originally posted by bambino_dad
quote:
Safety Precaution, that's always the excuse for not playing football or any other sport and playing fall baseball. If you want the facts ask Dr. James Andrews what he thinks about year round baseball.
While he is an unquestioned expert, Dr. James Andrews has been wrong before about arms and injuries. My question is how is it that Florida, California, Texas, and Caribbean kids can play year round - every year - and not have this discussion? People talk about how these are hotbeds of baseball and baseball talent. Uh, maybe it's because they play year round?
I'm just saying...
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| sgates |
Posted - 10/16/2009 : 15:37:24
You are correct bmoser...football is not for everyone, I'll just leave it at that! |
| Alter-Ego |
Posted - 10/11/2009 : 18:07:30
In my experience, weighted balls need to be used very carefully. Most times the additional weight forces bad mechanics, which brings on another set of problems. Long tossing, with a regular ball develops arm strength using the mechanics they will need regularly. |
| mikewells |
Posted - 10/11/2009 : 13:18:35
Folks here's the truth from personal experience , the 411 on multi sport athlets : it makes them better all sports !
Specific muscles get rest , other muscles get stronger by the cross training, and intensity rebuilds from playing the other sports.
If you want to focus one sport then have fun but beware of overuse physical and burnout mental by those under 18 years of age.
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| Rocky |
Posted - 10/11/2009 : 07:49:36
quote:
Originally posted by Stickman316
What about throwing w/ weighted balls?
Baseballs are already too heavy for young players why throw a weighted ball before puberty, only gonna destroy the arm quicker. Maybe at 13 14 but never before that. May not show the damage today but it wont help using it now. |
| da97076 |
Posted - 10/09/2009 : 23:28:18
Take a look at these posts from another blog about this topic.
http://hsbaseballweb.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6616002781/m/532106262/p/2 |
| bball2008 |
Posted - 10/09/2009 : 17:17:57
There's obviously no right or wrong path here. Everyone's got a story about a kid that ragged his arm out playing baseball 12 months of the year or about a kid that broke or tore something playing football. These kids will get hurt doing anything whether it be sports or goofing off with friends in their spare time. If a kid wants to play football(or any other fall sport) they should be allowed to at least give it a whirl. I would hate for my son to say to me when he is older that he wishes he could have had the chance to participate in a different fall sport.
As for team success, it seems that in the 2010 10u-13u age groups that the top teams from last season are consistently either not active or are only playing in one or two select tournaments. Not to say that this is the formula for success for the individual player but it seems to be working for the team as a whole. I think most dads(and moms) really have their son's best interest at heart when making these decisions. It's the few nutjobs that stand out that cause most of the debates. |
| whits23 |
Posted - 10/09/2009 : 15:08:23
Now here is a way to look at it..my son hurt his elbow during baseball, it healed during football even though he threw a ton of passes each day as throwing thumb up was ok..however we just got home from the doctor and he chipped his hip bone in football.
I think sports in general cause injury |
| bmoser |
Posted - 10/09/2009 : 09:37:31
TC said: "Safety Precaution, that's always the excuse for not playing football or any other sport and playing fall baseball.If you want the facts ask Dr. James Andrews what he thinks about year round baseball."
Our Coach just said: "...injured his collar bone in his football game last weekend – he’ll not be playing baseball Sunday..."
BMOSER says: I'll take a strained arm over a broken collar bone. Glad I had a good excuse for my son not to play football.
Boys parents said: @$#%&* football!!! |
| bmoser |
Posted - 10/06/2009 : 16:51:31
MLB players who were active from 2004 to 2009. These are all players, not just pitchers, but I'd say this would be reflective of pitchers as a group... More from warmer climate's.
A Total of 2447 Players Found
State Count Percentage
Other Countries 668 27.3%
California 400 16.3%
Texas 165 6.7%
Florida 143 5.8%
Illinois 78 3.2%
Georgia 75 3.1%
New York 64 2.6%
Ohio 64 2.6%
Pennsylvania 47 1.9%
Louisiana 39 1.6% |
| Rocky |
Posted - 10/06/2009 : 15:17:15
Some great responses to this post and it doesnt look like we will know whether playing fall baseball causes more or less arm injuries or promotes burnout or not. I guess it depends on the player in both cases, genetics and the roll of the dice.
I have been reading a bunch of articles that talk about the korean youth baseball players throwing bull pens like the japanese in the majors, 100 pitches and it doesnt seem to effect them, dont know if it will later on or not. Someone said a few months back on another subject, parents try and make the best decisions for their kids and I think thats what we as parents do. Just enjoy the time doing whatever because it will be over before we know it. |
| Stickman316 |
Posted - 10/06/2009 : 14:33:38
Let's talk about a long-tossing program.
Year round?
How many days a week?
How many minutes each session?
Can a player long toss too much? What's too much?
What about throwing w/ weighted balls?
Do you think genetics plays more a role in arm injuries vs. the tire illustration?
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| Alter-Ego |
Posted - 10/06/2009 : 12:40:48
biged,
I think we are on the same page in that I think a lot more throwing goes on than preparing to throw. Kids don't throw from the flat enough or long toss to develop. They save their throwing time for pitching in games.
In the grand scheme of things, everything wears out. Arms, hips, knees, hearts, etc. How we take care of them dictates more about when than the count. |
| biged |
Posted - 10/06/2009 : 11:44:18
Just like tires have brands that last longer so goes arms. Some arms last longer then others when all other things are equal. The info I am getting about the arm wearing out came from a doctor in Ashville who was working w/ a 13 year old w/ rotator cuff problems. Now the analogy regarding knees and hips reinforces the argument that body parts wear out. some sooner then others.
I have also read that many of the injuries/dead arms are a result of a lack of use. Kids do not do enough throwing in the off season. Throwing not pitching, there is a huge difference. Long toss seems to be the best medicine for this.
Me personally, feel we (atlanta area) pitch our kids way too much. Were I moved from in S. Fla it is even a bigger concern. Many of the top tier players at 10, 11, and 12 do not even pitch anymore due to arm issues. |
| Alter-Ego |
Posted - 10/06/2009 : 10:01:29
Biged,
Looking at the rosters for GA and GA Tech, the ratio of pitchers from the south (depending on whether you consider VA the south or not) vs pitchers from the north is 27-3. Now I would say that if you went to northern schools the ratio would be reversed. I think college players stay pretty regional (there are always a few players from further off) so that discredits your statement related to college pitchers.
As for pro pitchers, there are as many, or more, from a lot further south (Dominican, PR, Cuba, Mexico, etc) as there are from the southern United States. You know those players pitch year round, which goes toward discrediting your pro statement.
I still think the solution is to develop a good program to stay in shape and not do damage to the arm. Also finding a situation where you don't get overused is important as well. Don't be the workhorse on any team. |
| bballman |
Posted - 10/06/2009 : 09:47:22
quote:
Originally posted by biged
College and Pro pitchers overwhelmingly come from cold weather areas. Why is this the case? Because an arm is like a tire. It only has so many miles in it. Players and parents must then choose to use up their miles in youth yr round baseball or save some for a shot at the next level. This is why so many "studs" at 9, 10, 11, and 12 fall off the face of the earth while unknowns step forward.
Not sure that's true biged. Of the top 30 MLB draft picks, 16 were pitchers and only 5 were from northern colleges or high schools. Also, I am not convinced of the "so many pitches in an arm" theory. I think if a pitcher is careful about getting rest between outings, not pitching while fatigued, keeping himself in proper condition and employing good mechanics, there does not have to be a limit. Some pitchers may get hurt regardless what they do and some may go on forever, but if you do the above, you should increase your longevity. There really is no evidence that suggests there are "so many pitches" in an arm. |
| Alter-Ego |
Posted - 10/06/2009 : 09:45:01
biged,
Where are the stats on College and Pro pitchers coming from cold weather areas? Now you might be able to convince me that more warm weather players, that pitch, tend to make it as position players and therefore don't pitch as much in College or the Pro's, but to say that most of the pitchers at college or pro's are from Northernn states is hard for me to buy without statistical proof.
Also, philosophically I disagree with your comment that arms have so many pitches in them. If that were the case, our hips, knees and other joints would have the same issue. We see hip replacement and knee replacement surgeries in older people but not EVERYONE has to have it, just like not EVERY pitcher will eventually run out of pitches. |
| biged |
Posted - 10/05/2009 : 22:52:36
College and Pro pitchers overwhelmingly come from cold weather areas. Why is this the case? Because an arm is like a tire. It only has so many miles in it. Players and parents must then choose to use up their miles in youth yr round baseball or save some for a shot at the next level. This is why so many "studs" at 9, 10, 11, and 12 fall off the face of the earth while unknowns step forward. |
| oldmanmj |
Posted - 10/05/2009 : 17:29:19
What most people don't take into account is that most of those that excel at their position do all of the extra things that protect them from injury. For pitchers there are some very specific exercises they can do year round to protect them. I have 3 pitchers, not one arm issue ever, but they go the extra mile. Most of the time when there are injuries it is due to an un-educated coach, over agressive parent or lazy child. Although, I am a firm proponent of playing multiple sports, as mine do, they still play baseball at the same time, their choice. Knowledge is everything when it comes to playing a sport correctly. The rest you have no control over. |
| bballman |
Posted - 10/05/2009 : 16:21:11
My son has always played year round except one year when he played football. He may have even played that year, I don't remember. He is a pitcher and has never had an arm problem other than soreness and his shoulder got tight once earlier this year. He is 16 now. I know the fine folks at ASMI recommend 2-3 months a year of no throwing, but he took a month off after this summer season and had a hard time coming back. Velocity remained, but he got sore quickly. If he wanted to play football or some other sport, I would have encouraged it. In fact, I have tried to get him to play other sports. He just likes baseball. Too much time off, and he gets antsy to get back on the field.
This year, his summer team is only doing Sunday workouts - and they just started yesterday. He has had a couple of showcase events he participated in and we have been working on our own much of the fall. I think burnout depends on the kid. In terms of overuse, I think just make sure the pitcher gets plenty of rest between outings and don't pitch past the point of fatigue. Time off all fall? I'm not convinced it is something you have to do. |
| bmoser |
Posted - 10/05/2009 : 16:07:21
ROCKY:
Unless your own son has had arm and/or burnout issues, its hard to see your perspective clearly. I've been through both this year, so have learned to moderate from now on. We might even skip Fall ball next year to play Football ...on the Wii.
My son is geeked for hoops. I had better check the Governments safety stats on that :}
Glad your open to dialogue on both sides. We have a lot of classy blogger's on this forum, so thanks to you-know-who for that.
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