| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Hurricane |
Posted - 03/24/2016 : 15:42:30
Watching USA Baseball HS Invitational and noticed after a game both teams got together and prayed? Thoughts?  |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| bfriendly |
Posted - 04/27/2016 : 21:48:30
It certainly does make a difference where you were born and who your parents are. I was born in The US of A and we were founded "Under God"(the same as mine).
I think we even use that quote in a few different Patriotic instances. Now whats that little phrase on our Money...........oh yea, "In God We Trust".
I assure you when our country was being put together, the great men who put their lives on the line for Freedom sake, Prayed to God Almighty to help them make the right decisions.
I almost feel like an American, when we pray before or after Sports |
| Bergkamp10 |
Posted - 04/26/2016 : 18:20:27
I wouldn't worry about being forced to find another team. It's highly unlikely you will ever see anything other than a Christian prayer at a US baseball game just as you will likely only see a Hindu prayer at an Indian cricket game.
The dominant religion is entirely dictated by geography and tradition rather than theological "truth". One of the most persuasive arguments against religion is how many Gods there are (and have been). Either there is only one God, multiple Gods or no Gods. Whichever God you end up with is mostly dictated by where you are born and how you were raised.
quote:
Originally posted by bfriendly
quote:
Originally posted by Hurricane
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Originally posted by BamaDad
This discussion reminds me of a phrase that was repeated often when I was active in the military. The quote is "there are no atheists in foxholes". In other words, nobody really minds a prayer for safety on the battlefield regardless of who may or may not be on the other end. Of course with the kids, it's not that serious. It's a show of gratitude that everyone is okay. Most of all, no one is trying to convert anyone through a prayer of thanks for everyone being safe from harm.
So just to be clear Bama, you are fine with your son or daughter partaking in a prayer with someone of a Muslim, Jehovah Witness or Buddhist faith?
Thats not clear, its called spin.......Dont ever remember hearing a story of a "Foxhole Prayer" being aimed toward Alah.
I am sure kids with those religions do pray either before or after their games in their Way.........to theirs
BTW-Your Question has already been asked and answered. Some would find another team as I would so its OK, but we'll go elsewhere
BTW=we just got back from the Super NIT in SC. Right before the awards ceremony with both teams lined up, everyone bowed their heads and someone lead us in Prayer............It was Awesome and really had me appreciating everything the whole weekend was about!
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| bfriendly |
Posted - 04/26/2016 : 13:59:03
quote:
Originally posted by Hurricane
quote:
Originally posted by BamaDad
This discussion reminds me of a phrase that was repeated often when I was active in the military. The quote is "there are no atheists in foxholes". In other words, nobody really minds a prayer for safety on the battlefield regardless of who may or may not be on the other end. Of course with the kids, it's not that serious. It's a show of gratitude that everyone is okay. Most of all, no one is trying to convert anyone through a prayer of thanks for everyone being safe from harm.
So just to be clear Bama, you are fine with your son or daughter partaking in a prayer with someone of a Muslim, Jehovah Witness or Buddhist faith?
Thats not clear, its called spin.......Dont ever remember hearing a story of a "Foxhole Prayer" being aimed toward Alah.
I am sure kids with those religions do pray either before or after their games in their Way.........to theirs
BTW-Your Question has already been asked and answered. Some would find another team as I would so its OK, but we'll go elsewhere
BTW=we just got back from the Super NIT in SC. Right before the awards ceremony with both teams lined up, everyone bowed their heads and someone lead us in Prayer............It was Awesome and really had me appreciating everything the whole weekend was about! |
| Hurricane |
Posted - 04/25/2016 : 15:44:12
quote:
Originally posted by BamaDad
This discussion reminds me of a phrase that was repeated often when I was active in the military. The quote is "there are no atheists in foxholes". In other words, nobody really minds a prayer for safety on the battlefield regardless of who may or may not be on the other end. Of course with the kids, it's not that serious. It's a show of gratitude that everyone is okay. Most of all, no one is trying to convert anyone through a prayer of thanks for everyone being safe from harm.
So just to be clear Bama, you are fine with your son or daughter partaking in a prayer with someone of a Muslim, Jehovah Witness or Buddhist faith?
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| BaseballMom6 |
Posted - 04/13/2016 : 13:25:41
bfriendly, my point about the ending is that it is to me, what makes it a Christian prayer(as would one that began with Lord, our Father, as I have only heard those phrases when observing Christian prayer. Having a moment of silence to you is PC, to me it is a matter of respect. A moment of reflection recognizes that Johnny may be Christian, and Stevie may be Jewish and others may worship differently, but they may all appreciate the time to pray/be thankful in their own way instead of being told how to pray.
I agree that you want to see sportsmanship at all times. But consider that after joining them the day before, perhaps the coach/parents/players were not comfortable with the process and decided as a team not to participate before the game ever started? He says nothing about poor behavior of the coach, that they all shook hands as expected, but that he turned down the invitation to pray.
My point is that sportsmanship does not begin or end with prayer, or how/when/if you pray. It starts/finishes with respect for the game, yourself, coaches, parents, teammates, opponents and umpires. |
| bfriendly |
Posted - 04/13/2016 : 08:43:38
quote:
Originally posted by BaseballMom6
quote:
Originally posted by LittleDawg
[quote]Originally posted by LittleDawg
Now they have every right to join or not join but it really displayed a level of sportsmanship or lack thereof in front of our boys who definitely noticed.
You may say, "they have every right to join or not join," but suggesting that it was a lack of sportsmanship to not join you says otherwise.
Pray if you choose to, but do not pass judgement on those that do not share in your beliefs and choices. Everyone is not Christian, everyone does not believe in prayer, and saying it is a general prayer for health and safety is all well and good until you end your prayer with, "in Jesus's name we pray, amen.
I agree with the part that says not to judge(its not our job to do so) bbmom6...........but it does seem strange that they would join when they won, but not when they lost. Christianity has nothing to do with the scenario here, but Character does. It does not seem to me it had anything to do with Joining in on the prayer, but rather how the coach reacted differently when he Lost versus when he won.........Dont get hung up on prayer........actions speak louder than words everytime.
Teaching sportsmanship and character to young kids should be done on both sides of the win/loss column............
If you dont want to join in on a prayer, thats fine, no judgement here. But what do you tell your kids when a coach of an opposing team reacts poorly after a loss? Hopefully nothing, just try to redirect their attention away from the misbehaving coach
BTW-even a general prayer asking for safety for all etc......did not change at the end with in Jesus name.............. it started with it...Lord, Our Father, Dear God(Insert yours here)............it starts somewhere. When you pray, you typically pray to something, someone.
We could be PC and just have a moment of silence......I cant stand PC, but I'd be good with that too |
| BaseballMom6 |
Posted - 04/12/2016 : 10:40:17
quote:
Originally posted by LittleDawg
[quote]Originally posted by LittleDawg
Now they have every right to join or not join but it really displayed a level of sportsmanship or lack thereof in front of our boys who definitely noticed.
You may say, "they have every right to join or not join," but suggesting that it was a lack of sportsmanship to not join you says otherwise.
Pray if you choose to, but do not pass judgement on those that do not share in your beliefs and choices. Everyone is not Christian, everyone does not believe in prayer, and saying it is a general prayer for health and safety is all well and good until you end your prayer with, "in Jesus's name we pray, amen. |
| Bergkamp10 |
Posted - 04/12/2016 : 10:17:31
quote:
Originally posted by LittleDawg
quote:
Originally posted by LittleDawg
I'm a Dad of a son who is currently on a team that does say a prayer after games. I can't speak for all teams that do this but our Coach does NOT preach or try to convert anyone. While I was skeptical a year ago, I am proud of my son, his team and the coach for helping to shape the lives of these young men.
After each game, Win or Lose, (we are often on the losing side), he simply says to the other team "Hey Coach, we are gonna say a quick prayer on the mound if you want to join us" (Some teams do, Some don't, some even have a few that join while others don't.... it's a personal decision). The prayer itself is basically the same after each game... Giving thanks for a beautiful day, thanks for a day of good sportsmanship, injury free baseball and a prayer to keep everyone safe on their way homes...
I wanted to follow up on this based on an experience this weekend. Our team got beat on Saturday by a team in a back and forth affair and they came back in the 6th to win. Our coach invited them to pray with us...he said the same things as mentioned above, giving credit to the opponent for a well played game etc and all left for the day. Sunday rolls around and our boys play the same team again. This time with different results. Our boys won. Game ends, teams shake hands, coach asks other team if they want to join us on the mound... Other coach says..."Nope, We're gonna talk to our boys, they need more than prayers right now"
Now they have every right to join or not join but it really displayed a level of sportsmanship or lack thereof in front of our boys who definitely noticed.
I think your experience demonstrates how complicated and divisive the whole issue of prayer at games can be. Once the precedent is set and you are "a team that prays" it can be very easy to take offense when the opposing team opts out, particularly if they participated in a prior game.
It would seem the obvious approach is to pray privately on the side as a team and leave it at that. Don't put other teams in the awkward position of declining and looking bad if they have just lost a game and the coach is frustrated at how they played and wants to address his players. Its quite possible they said a prayer as a team after the "dressing down"...or perhaps not.
As for your comment about sportsmanship; the players and coaches shook hands at the end of the game. That's your sportsmanship right there.
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| Crazyforbball |
Posted - 04/10/2016 : 12:16:20
I agree if they did it on the mound then yes it would be awkward not to invite the other team so I suggested teams do it on their own (like in their dugout) and not on the mound. But honestly this is one of those topics on which there will never be agreement or consensus so each team needs to just decide for themselves what works best and players can play on those teams or not based on the consensus of the team's values and choices. |
| bfriendly |
Posted - 04/09/2016 : 11:21:37
quote:
Originally posted by Crazyforbball
Having been both religious, and not religious, in my lifetime I fully understand both sides of the argument. That said, I believe if a team is faith based, or if ALL team families are in agreement that they would like to pray before or after a game, then they should not be prevented from doing so. However not on the mound, and the other team should be left to pray or not pray as they see fit. To "invite" them may be an awkward moment where they feel obligated to do so. Prayer should never be an obligation. But for those who wish to give thanks as a group where all willingly consent to do so, I think it is fantastic.
Would it not be more awkward to Not Invite them? Now that I think about it, My softball coach nor the preacher/pitcher for my team Never say, "Come say a prayer with us". But rather they always say something more like, "We are going to have a prayer and ya'll are welcome to join us if you'd like"............it would be wrong to Not invite them IMHO
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| CaCO3Girl |
Posted - 04/06/2016 : 14:04:14
quote:
Originally posted by Bergkamp10
Those who are deeply immersed in their faith find it difficult to comprehend how anyone else can interpret life through a different lens whether that's an alternative religion or no religion at all. If everyone on the team (parents and kids) are on board with a pre-game prayer I think that's great but I truly doubt a parent who is a skeptic or of another faith is going to object, thereby exposing their kid as someone "different". They will go along with it because it's "harmless" which, to most, it is.
Maybe, as a great equalizer, we should pray to the baseball Gods (Lou and Babe? We all know the Devil is Alex Rodriguez). Please let my son hit a walk off home run, please let him throw strikes, please let him not strike out looking YET AGAIN, please let him run with some semblance of speed, please let him not constantly reposition his cup in full view of other parents...the list goes on. We can also thank them for good weather, good health, a safe ride home and also living in a country where we can have these robust, interesting debates on a kids baseball message board. Good for Stan, by the way, for letting the discussion evolve.
Truer words have never been typed on this board! |
| ballfan123 |
Posted - 04/05/2016 : 09:20:46
My son played for TE 3 years ago, and his all the boys on his team, would say a prayer on their own! We are not religious in any way, and not Christian, but i cannot tell you how impressed I was with a group of 13 yr old boys, unprovoked or forced or asked, praying. In fact, we had a tourney near our house and invited all the boys over. We got them all pizza, and without any parents around, they all said a quick prayer before eating!
I was blown away. See nothing wrong with it. |
| Bergkamp10 |
Posted - 03/28/2016 : 11:25:42
Those who are deeply immersed in their faith find it difficult to comprehend how anyone else can interpret life through a different lens whether that's an alternative religion or no religion at all. If everyone on the team (parents and kids) are on board with a pre-game prayer I think that's great but I truly doubt a parent who is a skeptic or of another faith is going to object, thereby exposing their kid as someone "different". They will go along with it because it's "harmless" which, to most, it is.
Maybe, as a great equalizer, we should pray to the baseball Gods (Lou and Babe? We all know the Devil is Alex Rodriguez). Please let my son hit a walk off home run, please let him throw strikes, please let him not strike out looking YET AGAIN, please let him run with some semblance of speed, please let him not constantly reposition his cup in full view of other parents...the list goes on. We can also thank them for good weather, good health, a safe ride home and also living in a country where we can have these robust, interesting debates on a kids baseball message board. Good for Stan, by the way, for letting the discussion evolve.
quote:
Originally posted by Hurricane
quote:
Originally posted by sebaseball
quote:
Originally posted by 743
what if the coach is Muslim? Does that change any of your thought?
Muslim prayer after the game?
I would not ever allow my child to be coached by a muslim who is practicing islam. Because we have the freedom of religion in this country, he is free to practice that religion if he wants, but there are plenty of other options for me to choose from. Call me all the names you want, but there are a number of folks (including some family members) that I don't want my children and family to associate with. Someone who practices an ideology that expressly teaches to convert people or they should be killed is definitely on the "stay away from" list.
You obviously don't know the "true" Muslim religion just as there are different churches and ministers and priest that do things they shouldn't. But that is not the point here.
That is the point. It a coach is Christian most think its okay but if he is Muslim then its definitely not ok so imagine being that Muslim player or Jewish player in those situations, leave it off the field is my opinion unless you establish your team with those beliefs when you are doing tryouts and creating it, but don't assume every team you play believes as you do.
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| Hurricane |
Posted - 03/28/2016 : 09:02:24
quote:
Originally posted by sebaseball
quote:
Originally posted by 743
what if the coach is Muslim? Does that change any of your thought?
Muslim prayer after the game?
I would not ever allow my child to be coached by a muslim who is practicing islam. Because we have the freedom of religion in this country, he is free to practice that religion if he wants, but there are plenty of other options for me to choose from. Call me all the names you want, but there are a number of folks (including some family members) that I don't want my children and family to associate with. Someone who practices an ideology that expressly teaches to convert people or they should be killed is definitely on the "stay away from" list.
You obviously don't know the "true" Muslim religion just as there are different churches and ministers and priest that do things they shouldn't. But that is not the point here.
That is the point. It a coach is Christian most think its okay but if he is Muslim then its definitely not ok so imagine being that Muslim player or Jewish player in those situations, leave it off the field is my opinion unless you establish your team with those beliefs when you are doing tryouts and creating it, but don't assume every team you play believes as you do. |
| tbaillie2 |
Posted - 03/27/2016 : 18:13:39
Well, we generally meet in a public place with nowhere to sequester away to, and as I said it's done for their right reasons. Which for us is something the kids want to do, they aren't doing it for the sake of those watching. No big spectacle at all, just down the baseline before the game starts.
quote:
Originally posted by Bergkamp10
So why does the prayer have to be communal and public? Why not just say a prayer in private in the same way as "not praying" is a personal thing for non believers. If a God exists why is it necessary to be so public about communicating with Him (or Her).
quote:
Originally posted by tbaillie2
My team says a prayer before each game, and often after (like described here as well).
I'm good with it, as it is earnest and is done for the right reasons. That said, I'm very aware that it has no bearing on anything and the first time a child is not comfortable I'll be sure to see that they know that is OK.
Freedom goes both ways...and just do the right thing and let others do the same.
It's really not that difficult.
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| in_the_know |
Posted - 03/27/2016 : 12:32:23
Happy Easter everyone! |
| teddy41 |
Posted - 03/27/2016 : 12:31:22
I think prayer as a team is a personal decision and some pray before or after or not at all. Teams have asked other teams to pray with them after games and get upset if a team says no. It maybe the other team already said one before OR has no idea what the other team will say during prayer so sticks to what they know and do. No one should ever expect another team to do what they do or get upset if they do not. I also do not think you have to get in the middle of the field and make a spectacle of it. Why do teams not just do it on the bench or on the side. |
| Crazyforbball |
Posted - 03/27/2016 : 11:24:06
Having been both religious, and not religious, in my lifetime I fully understand both sides of the argument. That said, I believe if a team is faith based, or if ALL team families are in agreement that they would like to pray before or after a game, then they should not be prevented from doing so. However not on the mound, and the other team should be left to pray or not pray as they see fit. To "invite" them may be an awkward moment where they feel obligated to do so. Prayer should never be an obligation. But for those who wish to give thanks as a group where all willingly consent to do so, I think it is fantastic. |
| baseball4life1 |
Posted - 03/27/2016 : 08:48:32
I think it's a good thing. Need more of it! |
| Bergkamp10 |
Posted - 03/27/2016 : 04:37:07
quote:
Originally posted by sebaseball
quote:
Originally posted by 743
what if the coach is Muslim? Does that change any of your thought?
Muslim prayer after the game?
I would not ever allow my child to be coached by a muslim who is practicing islam. Because we have the freedom of religion in this country, he is free to practice that religion if he wants, but there are plenty of other options for me to choose from. Call me all the names you want, but there are a number of folks (including some family members) that I don't want my children and family to associate with. Someone who practices an ideology that expressly teaches to convert people or they should be killed is definitely on the "stay away from" list.
So that comes back to freedom of religion and freedom of choice and we should all be able to exercise that freedom. There is extremism in all religions based on interpretations of ancient texts written by mere mortals (divinely inspired or not) who thought the earth was flat and had no idea that simply washing your hands would prevent most diseases. We can all relate and feel good about the message of love and tolerance from the New Testament whilst conveniently ignoring the appalling cruelty, death and destruction from the Old Testament. Just as the vast majority of Muslims are not jihadists many Christians don't literally believe in talking snakes and donkeys or that the planet is only six thousand years old and that God in a fit of pique decided to drown most of his creation. Personally I don't care what my son's coach believes as long as he doesn't evangelize and assume everyone feels the same way. |
| bfriendly |
Posted - 03/26/2016 : 23:38:02
quote:
Originally posted by BaseballMom6
There is no doubt he felt kinda weird because he KNOWS its something YOU DISLIKE.....he will want to satisfy YOU first and foremost, every time. It is the Parent who makes him feel that way, not the other folks who show LOVE around Him. Not that I would demand it, but I LOVE to see my kids team on a Knee having a prayer before a game......BTW-our forefathers founded this country on GOD and HIS word............GOD was an important factor in what our country originally became. NOW, the lack of GOD is an important factor in what our country is Becoming.....it aint pretty folks
At our last tourney(USSSA), Both teams were called to the mound before the start of the Championship game. The umpire led the team in Prayer..........You could feel the blessings in the air running through your whole body! It was Awesome!
If you have never felt it, you are missing something very special but you are invited to feel it.....join in the next time there is prayer.
Just close your eyes, listen and let go of everything for a moment. Better yet, let your KID Feel it.....next time, tell him to Join in just like when he is in Church. THEN, look at the expression on his face and tell me it looks like it felt Weird
X2 Heyblu...there is no freedom FROM Religion
quote:
I am pleased for you that that made you feel good. I find it inappropriate. Not all people are Christian and attend church, and think it is appropriate to kneel to pray. If I stepped to the mound and led all the players in a prayer in Hebrew, would you feel just as wonderful?YES Or would you feel a little awkward not fulling grasping the meaning behind the prayer?
Our country was founded on religious freedom not Christianity.
Your comments pushing others to have their child join in and "FEEL IT" are exactly what I find wrong with prayer at a secular baseball game.
I respect you and your family's right to your beliefs and would like you to respect my family's as well. No child should feel pressured to join in a prayer contrary to his personal beliefs, but should be encouraged to be respectful of his teammates and allow them a moment if they so choose.
The question was asked and I really like it when I see my team doing it. I may be in the stands but I'll bow my head as they are and give thanks for all of my blessings. I will ask for the Lord to keep Everyone Safe.............that is typically what a pregame prayer contains. A thank you and an ask for him to watch over us and keep us safe. Somehow I cant think of anything wrong with that..........BTW-I play softball on Tuesday night and we have a prayer with both teams after every game.......we invite them to join us for a real quick thanks. Seldom have anyone not joined us.
We are ALL Brothers and Sisters.............red, yellow, black and white. At least thats what I was taught and I will never know any different.........I hope my kid does the same, but he too will one day make his own choice. |
| ABC_Baseball |
Posted - 03/26/2016 : 22:38:10
I guess the thing that concerns me about this type of discussion is the fact that I almost always hear those that choose not to participate talk about feeling some kind of way. They think others are judging them. Yes, I'm sure there are times and situations where people will judge you because that is a part of life. I know we are talking about kids, they may be 9, they may be 12, it's all part of growing up.
Kids have to learn to be confident in the decisions they make. My kid attended Christian schools from age 2-8. One of the biggest things he had to get use to with public school is the fact that not everyone is nice, bullies are real and we don't all believe the same thing. It's all OK because the only person that will agree with you on everything is that face you see in the mirror. Kids don't have a switch that is flipped when they are 18 that allows them to be able to deal with life. They have to experience a little bit everyday. This may not be a popular opinion, but I'm not afraid to let my kid experience life as it comes. What is the popular phrase now...."a teachable moment." Neither is a bad decision, to participate or not to participate. They are both personal choices that everyone is free to exercise. |
| sebaseball |
Posted - 03/26/2016 : 22:35:31
quote:
Originally posted by 743
what if the coach is Muslim? Does that change any of your thought?
Muslim prayer after the game?
I would not ever allow my child to be coached by a muslim who is practicing islam. Because we have the freedom of religion in this country, he is free to practice that religion if he wants, but there are plenty of other options for me to choose from. Call me all the names you want, but there are a number of folks (including some family members) that I don't want my children and family to associate with. Someone who practices an ideology that expressly teaches to convert people or they should be killed is definitely on the "stay away from" list. |
| Bergkamp10 |
Posted - 03/26/2016 : 19:31:50
If you have never felt it, you are missing something very special but you are invited to feel it.....join in the next time there is prayer.
Just close your eyes, listen and let go of everything for a moment. Better yet, let your KID Feel it.....next time, tell him to Join in just like when he is in Church. THEN, look at the expression on his face and tell me it looks like it felt Weird
Those exact words could equally be used by an advocate of ANY religion. All religions have rituals and forms of group prayer and moments of transcendence where you feel the power of something bigger than yourself. In fact you can get the same feeling from watching a sunset or listening to Mozart. Everyone is an atheist about the hundreds of Gods they DON'T believe in. We are all atheists when it comes to Zeus but there was a time when you'd be a social outcast for not believing in him. Saying there is "no freedom from religion" is not only profoundly incorrect, it sounds like something the Taliban would say. It merely reinforces why we need freedom of religion (including the ones you don't subscribe to simply because of geographic location) and freedom from religion if we choose. |
| Got Heem |
Posted - 03/26/2016 : 18:36:09
quote:
Originally posted by 743
what if the coach is Muslim? Does that change any of your thought?
Muslim prayer after the game?
NOT a chance! Everyone knows they play soccer. |
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