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| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| 3boydad |
Posted - 06/11/2013 : 15:15:01
How can we eliminate the bad umpires from the system, the bottom 10-20%? They exist at every park and don't seem to go away. You can't say anything to them at games else they throw you out of the park. Who do you talk to if you see consistently poor calls from behind the plate...6 inches outside is not a strike and I don't care if he's being consistent or not to both teams, he needs to be sent a message. We are all paying $500+gate fees plus months and months of training etc. and these umps walk around the parks like they own it. We deserve better. Thoughts? |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| NUA Umpires |
Posted - 06/29/2013 : 21:24:23
Very simple. take your suit and tie off and Become one. see ya at the fall camp. www.nuaumpiresusa.org dates will be posted late July- |
| Gwinnett |
Posted - 06/25/2013 : 17:09:32
I agree, bballman. Of course, it's no fun when they make that bad call against your team, but, I've seen them make just as bad calls against the other team....
You win some and lose some. I've learned to just accept it.
quote:
Originally posted by bballman
quote:
Originally posted by jacjacatk
More people need to try watching games they have no rooting interest in, where they can pay attention to the umpiring dispassionately, and see if they come away with as bad an impression generally as they do in the games they do care about.
I think this is an excellent idea!!
And yes, the better umpires move up and ump the older kids and then into HS and college. If an ump is really good and wants to continue in his craft, he will usually take the higher level games. However, I don't care how high up you go, more than likely, if you are there to see your kid play, the ump will make "bad" calls against your team. I have come to believe and see that umps also make "bad" calls against the other team. We tend to just let them go since they were in our favor. I have always taught my son - and he agrees now - that the calls will work themselves out in the long run. You get some for you and some against you. It's not the end of the world. Accept it, move on and overcome it. That is the sign of a true player, and fan.
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| bballman |
Posted - 06/25/2013 : 16:11:09
quote:
Originally posted by jacjacatk
More people need to try watching games they have no rooting interest in, where they can pay attention to the umpiring dispassionately, and see if they come away with as bad an impression generally as they do in the games they do care about.
I think this is an excellent idea!!
And yes, the better umpires move up and ump the older kids and then into HS and college. If an ump is really good and wants to continue in his craft, he will usually take the higher level games. However, I don't care how high up you go, more than likely, if you are there to see your kid play, the ump will make "bad" calls against your team. I have come to believe and see that umps also make "bad" calls against the other team. We tend to just let them go since they were in our favor. I have always taught my son - and he agrees now - that the calls will work themselves out in the long run. You get some for you and some against you. It's not the end of the world. Accept it, move on and overcome it. That is the sign of a true player, and fan. |
| jacjacatk |
Posted - 06/25/2013 : 14:57:30
quote:
Originally posted by Spartan4
But with youth ball I just don't think there are that many good umpires out there, the majority are decent but very few great umpires out there. They must be up an age group or something.
This is what should be expected, the best umpires tend to move up, just like the best ballplayers. Given that the pool of umpires will be more static than the pool of players, the talent floor is probably higher for the umps than it is for the players, but the ceiling might also be lower, such that at younger ages you mostly get just averagish umpires, with not that many standouts one way or the other.
More people need to try watching games they have no rooting interest in, where they can pay attention to the umpiring dispassionately, and see if they come away with as bad an impression generally as they do in the games they do care about. |
| christheump |
Posted - 06/25/2013 : 14:56:42
quote:
Originally posted by Spartan4
quote:
Originally posted by christheump
It seems the words "you suck" usually follow a close play on a judgement call.... Jim Joyce is a great umpire that would of had a whole lotta people giving him a bad rating.....
But with youth ball I just don't think there are that many good umpires out there, the majority are decent but very few great umpires out there. They must be up an age group or something.
....or retired!!!   |
| Spartan4 |
Posted - 06/25/2013 : 14:16:02
quote:
Originally posted by christheump
It seems the words "you suck" usually follow a close play on a judgement call.... Jim Joyce is a great umpire that would of had a whole lotta people giving him a bad rating.....
IMO with a call that obvious MLB should have stepped in and made the call right. There were no runners to move or anything like that. Just a clean "out" call and the game is over. I understand why they don't but that's a case where it wouldn't have hurt a thing. The case with the blown HR call that was missed AFTER REPLAY!! And the umpire not knowing the freaking rules are also inexcusable. If "human element" gets coaches and managers fired and players sent down to the minors then there should absolutely 100% be a measuring stick for MLB umpires, Joe West is another good example of when the umpire becomes the show instead of officiating the show. But with youth ball I just don't think there are that many good umpires out there, the majority are decent but very few great umpires out there. They must be up an age group or something. |
| christheump |
Posted - 06/25/2013 : 09:17:30
It seems the words "you suck" usually follow a close play on a judgement call.... Jim Joyce is a great umpire that would of had a whole lotta people giving him a bad rating..... |
| CenterField |
Posted - 06/25/2013 : 09:10:30
We recently had a championship game heavily influenced by a blown call at 1B in the bottom of the 6th inning. I know that its tough to make calls in a 2-man crew when you don't have good angles and when multiple runners are on base. The main issue I have is when the umpire will not take the extra effort to put himself in the right position to make the call. I see some umps flying all around the infield to get in position and talking with their counterpart about who has got what base during a play. Then I see other guys that don't move a total of more than 5 feet during an entire game. |
| stafcoach8 |
Posted - 06/25/2013 : 08:17:55
Remember this. An umpire does not beat a good team. A bang bang call usually goes in favor of the play not the team. No umpire wakes up and says "Hey i like the color red today so i will call in their favor". Play the game and remember to show respect in order to receive respect. |
| jacjacatk |
Posted - 06/24/2013 : 22:31:25
quote:
Originally posted by 3boydad
Appreciate the conversation but getting back to the topic...How do we as travel ballers in Atlanta get rid of the bad umps? I don't want my teams going to the plate with a 'i better swing at everything mentality' for this game but not the next one. Bad umps exist, face it they exist in the system and I don't see them going away unless there is a system/process. Anyone at the triple crown in Cumming this weekend, the ump crew at Midway for 10's was terrible, how can we improve the ump crews?
Think about "Yelp" for umps. There are plenty of restaurant owners who think their reviews are biased but Yelp has survived and thrived. Same for Tripadvisor. Why not create a fan based rating system, umps will be rated relative to the baseline stats, you're either way above or way below the baseline and tourny directors/rec parks can use the ratings to get rid of the bad ones. Anyone like the idea?
Start by recognizing that a substantial majority of umps aren't bad, and that you should expect the umps at a given level to be about as good as the players at the same level (relative to whatever level you want to judge them against).
Fan-based ump reviews would result in essentially every ump being rated badly. I've literally never attended a travel or HS game where someone wasn't bitching about the umpires, and over several hundred games I've only been at a couple where anyone could really have had a legitimate gripe. |
| AllStar |
Posted - 06/24/2013 : 15:36:19
quote:
Originally posted by 3boydad
Appreciate the conversation but getting back to the topic...How do we as travel ballers in Atlanta get rid of the bad umps? I don't want my teams going to the plate with a 'i better swing at everything mentality' for this game but not the next one. Bad umps exist, face it they exist in the system and I don't see them going away unless there is a system/process. Anyone at the triple crown in Cumming this weekend, the ump crew at Midway for 10's was terrible, how can we improve the ump crews?
Think about "Yelp" for umps. There are plenty of restaurant owners who think their reviews are biased but Yelp has survived and thrived. Same for Tripadvisor. Why not create a fan based rating system, umps will be rated relative to the baseline stats, you're either way above or way below the baseline and tourny directors/rec parks can use the ratings to get rid of the bad ones. Anyone like the idea?
They all work for somebody. I always used to deal with NUA. I don't know where TC and USSSA get their umps, I thought it was the same organization. They have a web site and you can determine who is in charge, contact him and see if he would be open to a process. Post-game surveys or something along those lines. As implied earlier in the thread, they would probably be heavily negatively biased.
If everybody completed the survey, you could probably read them blind and tell whose team won and whose team lost. |
| christheump |
Posted - 06/24/2013 : 14:58:48
quote:
Originally posted by 3boydad
Appreciate the conversation but getting back to the topic...How do we as travel ballers in Atlanta get rid of the bad umps? I don't want my teams going to the plate with a 'i better swing at everything mentality' for this game but not the next one. Bad umps exist, face it they exist in the system and I don't see them going away unless there is a system/process. Anyone at the triple crown in Cumming this weekend, the ump crew at Midway for 10's was terrible, how can we improve the ump crews?
Think about "Yelp" for umps. There are plenty of restaurant owners who think their reviews are biased but Yelp has survived and thrived. Same for Tripadvisor. Why not create a fan based rating system, umps will be rated relative to the baseline stats, you're either way above or way below the baseline and tourny directors/rec parks can use the ratings to get rid of the bad ones. Anyone like the idea?
How would identify them?
Like I said previously, you are asking for biased opinions from people that sometimes dont know the rules of the game themselves. You would be inviting confrontation because when someone happens to look at the reviews they now have a preconceived notion that this guy is bad, when in fact he might not be, except for the fact that a call didnt go your way, and when the first sign of a "bad call" everyone sitting behind the fence would get caught up in mob like frenzy all because one parent read someones opinion and told everyone else this guy is a bad ump because you read about it on the internet.....slippery slope you would walking along. |
| 3boydad |
Posted - 06/24/2013 : 14:03:57
Appreciate the conversation but getting back to the topic...How do we as travel ballers in Atlanta get rid of the bad umps? I don't want my teams going to the plate with a 'i better swing at everything mentality' for this game but not the next one. Bad umps exist, face it they exist in the system and I don't see them going away unless there is a system/process. Anyone at the triple crown in Cumming this weekend, the ump crew at Midway for 10's was terrible, how can we improve the ump crews?
Think about "Yelp" for umps. There are plenty of restaurant owners who think their reviews are biased but Yelp has survived and thrived. Same for Tripadvisor. Why not create a fan based rating system, umps will be rated relative to the baseline stats, you're either way above or way below the baseline and tourny directors/rec parks can use the ratings to get rid of the bad ones. Anyone like the idea? |
| christheump |
Posted - 06/18/2013 : 11:07:59
quote:
Originally posted by Canton Chargers
As a tourney director, I always advise my lead ump guy when I witness bad umpiring or hear it from winning and losing coaches. Bad umps get weeded out whether by policing their own as one poster mentioned or weeded out by directors.
This..I promise it matters and does not go un-noticed...Personally, one the greatest compliments that I ever got was when a TD came to me in the middle of a game and said, I want you on field such and such right now...The bad thing is, the game I was BU for got the bad ump... |
| Canton Chargers |
Posted - 06/17/2013 : 17:15:17
BMWAC, I think we had same ump at TC State. It was ALL about him and he knew absolutely everything. I think he even told me he ump'd in the bigs for 30 years and he was about 40 years old. He was beyond brutal on ball/ strikes and field calls. Umpires should try to be invisible in my opinion and call them how they see them. Yes, some of them need vision correction and yes, there are some that absolutely do NOT know the rules, but I've been coaching for awhile now and know that most of them are in it for a lil scratch and love the game like us coaches do. I always go out of my way to thank the good ones and respectfully sign my card and walk away from the bad ones (win or lose). I also find myself yelling at the tv when the red sox are getting screwed by umps and love it when the umpires screw up against the yankees, so good/ bad umps are here to stay. Stinks for the kids when you have an ump making it about him and is just brutal behind plate or in the field, but I always tell them that a lot of failure at this game and bad umpiring is part of the game. Get used to it or you will find yourself quitting and picking up another hobby.
As a tourney director, I always advise my lead ump guy when I witness bad umpiring or hear it from winning and losing coaches. Bad umps get weeded out whether by policing their own as one poster mentioned or weeded out by directors. Directors are either in it to make money or fundraising for their team/ organizations, so the less headaches for them with everything else going on, the better.
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| christheump |
Posted - 06/14/2013 : 10:40:21
quote:
Originally posted by nwgadad
Why was the plate ump not checking to make sure the runner touched home? Could the coaches appeal that he missed home? Then the home plate ump say well I didn't really check to make sure I was watching the play at first? As usual a no win situation for the umps! This exact play did happen in our game and it was my son running to first. My son told me that 1B tagged him. The 1B ump should have just asked him lol...
quote:
Originally posted by ChinMusic
quote:
Originally posted by HITANDRUN
Question for umps. You are behind the plate and there is a man on 3B, batter hits a ball to 3B and the 3Bman throws to first pulling the 1st baseman off the bag so he has to swipe the tag at 1B. Umpire in the field "calls" the runner safe and says the 1st baseman missed the tag. Do you over rule the umpire at 1B or let the play stand even if you thought he made the tag? Coach comes out to argue the call? Do you overrule the other umpire?
Here's what should occur:
1. Coach should call time and approach the base umpire who made the call. As the plate guy, I've already signaled my partner that I have some information.
2. Base umpire will confer with plate umpire
3. Base umpire will change his call if all in agreement
Key word being should. Some coaches explode and just race on to the field screaming. With a 2-man crew, it's tough for the base guy to always catch the swipe tag or pulled foot.
Bingo.... |
| ChinMusic |
Posted - 06/14/2013 : 10:14:24
Nwgadad... You can catch the home plate touch with a quick glance, and still (hopefully) watch the play @ 1B. Again, a 2-man crew makes these situations difficult.
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| nwgadad |
Posted - 06/14/2013 : 09:51:31
Why was the plate ump not checking to make sure the runner touched home? Could the coaches appeal that he missed home? Then the home plate ump say well I didn't really check to make sure I was watching the play at first? As usual a no win situation for the umps! This exact play did happen in our game and it was my son running to first. My son told me that 1B tagged him. The 1B ump should have just asked him lol...
quote:
Originally posted by ChinMusic
quote:
Originally posted by HITANDRUN
Question for umps. You are behind the plate and there is a man on 3B, batter hits a ball to 3B and the 3Bman throws to first pulling the 1st baseman off the bag so he has to swipe the tag at 1B. Umpire in the field "calls" the runner safe and says the 1st baseman missed the tag. Do you over rule the umpire at 1B or let the play stand even if you thought he made the tag? Coach comes out to argue the call? Do you overrule the other umpire?
Here's what should occur:
1. Coach should call time and approach the base umpire who made the call. As the plate guy, I've already signaled my partner that I have some information.
2. Base umpire will confer with plate umpire
3. Base umpire will change his call if all in agreement
Key word being should. Some coaches explode and just race on to the field screaming. With a 2-man crew, it's tough for the base guy to always catch the swipe tag or pulled foot.
|
| ChinMusic |
Posted - 06/14/2013 : 09:30:35
quote:
Originally posted by HITANDRUN
Question for umps. You are behind the plate and there is a man on 3B, batter hits a ball to 3B and the 3Bman throws to first pulling the 1st baseman off the bag so he has to swipe the tag at 1B. Umpire in the field "calls" the runner safe and says the 1st baseman missed the tag. Do you over rule the umpire at 1B or let the play stand even if you thought he made the tag? Coach comes out to argue the call? Do you overrule the other umpire?
Here's what should occur:
1. Coach should call time and approach the base umpire who made the call. As the plate guy, I've already signaled my partner that I have some information.
2. Base umpire will confer with plate umpire
3. Base umpire will change his call if all in agreement
Key word being should. Some coaches explode and just race on to the field screaming. With a 2-man crew, it's tough for the base guy to always catch the swipe tag or pulled foot.
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| christheump |
Posted - 06/14/2013 : 08:28:21
hahaha...Trick Question. |
| nwgadad |
Posted - 06/13/2013 : 18:08:10
This happened in one of our games this weekend! The HP ump did overrule the call!
quote:
Originally posted by HITANDRUN
Question for umps. You are behind the plate and there is a man on 3B, batter hits a ball to 3B and the 3Bman throws to first pulling the 1st baseman off the bag so he has to swipe the tag at 1B. Umpire in the field "calls" the runner safe and says the 1st baseman missed the tag. Do you over rule the umpire at 1B or let the play stand even if you thought he made the tag? Coach comes out to argue the call? Do you overrule the other umpire?
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| HITANDRUN |
Posted - 06/13/2013 : 15:31:20
Question for umps. You are behind the plate and there is a man on 3B, batter hits a ball to 3B and the 3Bman throws to first pulling the 1st baseman off the bag so he has to swipe the tag at 1B. Umpire in the field "calls" the runner safe and says the 1st baseman missed the tag. Do you over rule the umpire at 1B or let the play stand even if you thought he made the tag? Coach comes out to argue the call? Do you overrule the other umpire? |
| AllStar |
Posted - 06/13/2013 : 14:26:33
quote:
Originally posted by christheump
I would not allow spectators to be a part of any grading system. No way, No how, Never, ever, ever.....Can't tell you how many times a parent in the stands have yelled that the ball was foul because the batted ball struck home before bounding into fair territory.....and you want that to be part of the ranking system....Like I said, No Way, No How, Never, Ever, Ever..... Can you get a bad one, sure. Umps want to be good umps...Trust me, the majority arent out there doing it for the money. There is a silent checks and balance system. A good umpire coordinator will know who is strong and who is weak and will never pair two weak together....Word gets around and we all talk among ourselves. The usual give away is "I hate working with him".
1000% agree. |
| christheump |
Posted - 06/13/2013 : 14:25:46
quote:
Originally posted by T13
christheump....you one of the best!!!....great times with you when coaching the Diamond Bears!
As for the rest of you complaining, they are human and just as bad as most coaches...quit complaining, its youth baseball and should be fun and nobody is perfect (except all the coaches on here and parents!) If you don't like it teach your kid to play golf and its just your child and a little white ball and no one to point blame at!!!
Mr. Takac.... Yall were a joy to work with. Coaches like you and Chris and your kids are what made it tough for me to stop.... Clean, Hard, Fun, Respectable disagreements. |
| christheump |
Posted - 06/13/2013 : 14:11:27
I would not allow spectators to be a part of any grading system. No way, No how, Never, ever, ever.....Can't tell you how many times a parent in the stands have yelled that the ball was foul because the batted ball struck home before bounding into fair territory.....and you want that to be part of the ranking system....Like I said, No Way, No How, Never, Ever, Ever..... Can you get a bad one, sure. Umps want to be good umps...Trust me, the majority arent out there doing it for the money. There is a silent checks and balance system. A good umpire coordinator will know who is strong and who is weak and will never pair two weak together....Word gets around and we all talk among ourselves. The usual give away is "I hate working with him". |
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