| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| baseballallday |
Posted - 11/09/2012 : 13:07:24
I'm trying to understand the reasoning so maybe some of you can help. You have Teams A, B and C, A being the more elite team. Teams B and C will play in most of the same tournaments as A and are very competitive teams. Why would a player choose to play for Team A if they are going to be the bench player when if they chose teams B or C they would play every game? I'm talking more about the teenage age groups.
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| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Critical Mass |
Posted - 11/19/2012 : 13:48:39
@14 and up at EC, you'd better have some cash as they travel regionally(more than just the next state) and nationally...if your son isnt one of the best pitchers or one of the best 9, he will sit and if that investment for the jersey and his learning the game from the bench is more valuable than reps elsewhere,go for it. Otherwise, you can have the coaches say a few good words for your kid IF a college unquires about players 10-19. Factor in other younger, better athletes playing up and it can limit your investment return even more. I know plenty of 2015's playing up now etc..how do you think those 17u parents like watching their kid sit while a 16u kid gets all the reps. Enjoy. |
| dogatbat |
Posted - 11/19/2012 : 12:56:47
Hardballer, my son and I endured that entire 13U season, cause he is not a quitter, with one thought in mind..."It's personal commitment that separates excellence from mediocrity." This was the battle cry which I am certain many kids and parents know very well. We are hardly the exception! On the other hand, I agree there are many kids who get discouraged at what they are told by 13U14U coaches and talent walks away from the game for a while or forever. I have still got the email from the coach referencing my son's place on that team.... It is a distant laugh now...more so when we played a team this past Fall with some of my son's residual 13U coaches and it was a big night...lol! |
| HardBaller |
Posted - 11/19/2012 : 09:23:44
Unfortunately, that is another common refrain I've heard repeatedly over the years where players/parents are told that a kid CANNOT play for a certain team or CANNOT play a certain position (at least not with that organization) at 13u and 14u.
And then, a few years later, because of the unwavering belief of the parent and hard work by the player, the kids is not only playing that position and sought after by many top teams and strong programs, but sought after to play that position at the next level; D-1 or drafted.
Just think how many kids may have abandon their dream because someone focused on their negatives or short comings at 13?
And I'm thinking, how does the premiere youth baseball organization operate in this manner?
For me, it's all about the upside in my son and in other players and hard work.
quote:
Originally posted by dogatbat
Agree with Hardballer. There are many many ways to skin the cat and get to the desired goal w/o wearing a certain "jersey"! For various reasons, I suspect there are many more people waking up to that realization. My son and I have been around EC for a few years, and IMO people will do almost anything to wear that "jersey", even at very young ages! In the final analysis, each to his/her own. My son who played on one of the better 13U teams. I was told by his coach he did not have it and he would rank him at the bottom 1/3 of the roster(late bloomer). My son opted to play for reps when that season was over..where he got, and still gets, very good coaching and good practices...a few years later, and w/o that "jersey" he is looked upon very differently by coach's...hard out to get! We took the in through the back door approach and have no regrets
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| dogatbat |
Posted - 11/19/2012 : 07:43:10
Agree with Hardballer. There are many many ways to skin the cat and get to the desired goal w/o wearing a certain "jersey"! For various reasons, I suspect there are many more people waking up to that realization. My son and I have been around EC for a few years, and IMO people will do almost anything to wear that "jersey", even at very young ages! In the final analysis, each to his/her own. My son who played on one of the better 13U teams. I was told by his coach he did not have it and he would rank him at the bottom 1/3 of the roster(late bloomer). My son opted to play for reps when that season was over..where he got, and still gets, very good coaching and good practices...a few years later, and w/o that "jersey" he is looked upon very differently by coach's...hard out to get! We took the in through the back door approach and have no regrets |
| HardBaller |
Posted - 11/18/2012 : 07:43:32
The kid I know who plays with the 18u Yankees, both he and parents have nothing but praise for the coaching, practices, and development that occurs with that outfit.
They expressed it's not at all like the 16u Astros, who they played with previously, in that regard and while they could play with any of those teams now as a 16 yr old, deliberately choose the ECY for that reason; meaningful, head-coach involved practices.
BTW, dont think he showed up to ECB till 14u and played AA/AAA ball up to then.
Now, he'a already committed to a D-1 program.
There is definitely more than one way to skin this cat and it seems to me that more and more players and parents are aware that you can get where you want to be without being involved with any particular outfit.
I think the misunderstanding or deception occurs when particular organizations are held out as the "be-all, end-all" to getting the goal achieved.
quote:
Originally posted by bballman
I don't totally agree ITK. When you get to the HS years - that's what I think baseballallday is talking about - there are many of the elite teams that almost never practice. I would pretty much guarantee the 16u Astros, 17u Braves and 18u Yankees may not have a single practice all year. They are about showcasing the kids on the team. If you have a kid on one of those teams that sits the bench, they are there so they can say they are on that team. I know 643 holds very good practices for their HS level teams once or twice a week during the season, but there are others that don't practice very much. Most of the Elite level teams figure their players have already honed their skills and just want them to play.
I'm not saying all Elite level teams are like this, but more than you may think.
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| BuzzDad |
Posted - 11/17/2012 : 11:52:27
quote:
Originally posted by bballman
I don't totally agree ITK. When you get to the HS years - that's what I think baseballallday is talking about - there are many of the elite teams that almost never practice. I would pretty much guarantee the 16u Astros, 17u Braves and 18u Yankees may not have a single practice all year. They are about showcasing the kids on the team. If you have a kid on one of those teams that sits the bench, they are there so they can say they are on that team. I know 643 holds very good practices for their HS level teams once or twice a week during the season, but there are others that don't practice very much. Most of the Elite level teams figure their players have already honed their skills and just want them to play.
I'm not saying all Elite level teams are like this, but more than you may think.
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| Newbie BB Mom |
Posted - 11/13/2012 : 10:07:08
Sorry, 14U. I realize that the OP was focusing on older teens, but I suspect this pattern holds up with the older teams as well.
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| bballman |
Posted - 11/13/2012 : 09:56:15
quote:
Originally posted by Newbie BB Mom
Out of curiosity, I looked at the ECB Astros 2011 USSSA roster.
Out of 20 players listed, 9 were playing for the Astros for the first time, 3 were on their 2nd year and another 3 were on their 3rd. Only one had played for the Astros his entire travel ball career (7 years). In addition, only 3 of the 20 had been playing on any ECB team for 5 years or more. None of the 9 Astros first-timers had played for an ECB team before. In other words, about half the Astros team was not only new to the Astros, but new to ECB.
Also, 8 of the 20 had played on at least one AAA or AA team in the past and 8 of the 20 do not appear to have played travel ball until they were 10 or older.
I know these rosters aren't completely accurate records of a player's history, but I think it backs up the idea that there are several ways to skin this cat and it is completely possible to come to ECB later and play at the highest level.
What age Astros did you look up? |
| Newbie BB Mom |
Posted - 11/13/2012 : 09:25:33
Out of curiosity, I looked at the ECB Astros 2011 USSSA roster.
Out of 20 players listed, 9 were playing for the Astros for the first time, 3 were on their 2nd year and another 3 were on their 3rd. Only one had played for the Astros his entire travel ball career (7 years). In addition, only 3 of the 20 had been playing on any ECB team for 5 years or more. None of the 9 Astros first-timers had played for an ECB team before. In other words, about half the Astros team was not only new to the Astros, but new to ECB.
Also, 8 of the 20 had played on at least one AAA or AA team in the past and 8 of the 20 do not appear to have played travel ball until they were 10 or older.
I know these rosters aren't completely accurate records of a player's history, but I think it backs up the idea that there are several ways to skin this cat and it is completely possible to come to ECB later and play at the highest level. |
| bkball |
Posted - 11/13/2012 : 09:08:57
I think about the "well it doesn't matter until" phrase all the time.
To be honest it matters right now to the kid.
If he is enjoying himself that is what it is about.
I think a lot of people are jealous when it comes to some kids being better than others, hoping theirs catches up or others fall. Life lesson some kids work their butts off harder than others and will never be as good as the some that walk out and are just good. If you focus on the now the future will probably take care of itself.
10BBizz your kid is an awesome baseball player that works hard, as are all the Astros and most players on the elite type teams, and it is an honor to be able to play on one of those teams. All anyone can do is do what they think is best for their son. |
| bballman |
Posted - 11/12/2012 : 22:22:25
10bbizz, in a way you are right. It's all a matter of perspective. If you notice, I said it didn't matter in terms of recruiting. What does matter - at any age is #1 - developing and maintaining a love for the game and #2 - developing the fundamentals that will hopefully take you as far as you desire to go. If that can be done at ECB, that's fine. If it can be done at your local rec league, that's fine too. ECB has done a lot for baseball here in Atlanta and nationally as well. However, they are not the only game in town anymore. And remember, not all ECB teams are equal. That's part of why ECB has lost some of the allure. It has become watered down. You can get yourself on a nationally recognized elite team or an average AA team. There are plenty of places to develop #1 & #2, inside or outside of ECB.
Pick a team where you can do that. Don't pick a team for the name or prestige and wind up sitting the bench. That's what this post is all about. |
| 10bbizz |
Posted - 11/12/2012 : 21:09:10
I'll be glad when it starts to matter. When my son was 8 and in coach pitch we were told baseball won't matter till the kids start hitting against pitchers. Then we made it or so we thought until we found out that it wouldn't matter until they turn 12 and 13 and these kids were going through puberty. Made it and then found out it didn't matter till they turned 14 and got on the "BIG" field, here we are and now I find out it won't matter till the are 16 or 17. I guess at that age everyone will say it won't matter till they sign with a college and at that point it won't matter till they sign pro. I can't wait till it matters!
On the national level the question has often been asked which organization presents the best program, which program is out front with coaches and developing the most athlete's that play at the college or professional level and the one brand that always leads the pack has been East Cobb and I thought this would be something Georgians would be proud of so what did my son do, go out for and make the team. Now I find out East Cobb doesn't matter.
In and at the end I think what matters is my son and I have had and hope to continue to have a blast and we will always choose higher level teams.
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| Hitman |
Posted - 11/12/2012 : 16:41:57
In North Georgia there are several good program / teams, but living in Gwinnett, East Cobb was never seriously considered. Still we have managed to get good training and development and made our High School Varsity team as a Freshman. We even had a heck of a run in the state playoffs and we didn't just warm the bench. Play where ever you feel is the best fit for your own situation, everyone cannot afford some of these "elite" programs. |
| bballman |
Posted - 11/12/2012 : 16:18:03
I agree DecaturDad. This thread is really not about ECB. Maybe I started it by stating that the 16u Astros, 17u Braves and 18u Yankees don't really practice at all. I don't think anyone is saying it's bad to play for an ECB top team. Far from it. If you can make it and play, you are a very good ball player. The question was why would a kid/family choose to join a top notch team and then just sit the bench? I still say - at least in part - it is ego. It's nice to say you play for the Astros. If you just sit the bench, it doesn't do you any good and you'd be better off playing for another good team and actually playing against these guys.
And, I'll just throw in there, if you are under 16 years old, it doesn't matter in terms of recruiting for the next level. 16+, your goal is to be playing in front of the scouts and getting noticed. I'll be the first to admit that playing for the 16 Astros or 17 Braves will give you a leg up. However, you must be playing, not just sitting on the bench. Scouts care about how you play, not just the fact that you are on the roster. |
| DecaturDad |
Posted - 11/12/2012 : 15:27:38
quote:
Originally posted by 10bbizz
I guess if my son hadn't made the Astros 14u squad I would feel the same way as some of you guys posting on this subject.
Not sure how this turned into an East Cobb discussion, but there are some 14us out here that may have made the Astros 14u squad if they had tried out. Not everyone has a desire to play in East Cobb, even for the Astros. |
| bball2008 |
Posted - 11/12/2012 : 14:00:40
A very small percentage of players that end up on the elite 16 and 17u Astros and Braves teams were Astros at 13 or 14 and here is why. Most of the boys that make those 13 and 14u astros teams are the ones that have hit puberty early and are fully grown or nearly so. They just simply have more muscle mass and coordination than many others at that age. Many of the boys that will ultimately play for those elite 16 and 17u teams were gangly, awkward 13 and 14 yr olds but their immature bodies have a much higher ceiling for performance later on after they develop.
A full grown 14 yr old that throws 80mph and can hit balls 350' very likely will throw 80mph and hit balls 350' at 17 yrs old.
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| 10bbizz |
Posted - 11/12/2012 : 13:58:37
I guess if my son hadn't made the Astros 14u squad I would feel the same way as some of you guys posting on this subject. |
| ABC_Baseball |
Posted - 11/12/2012 : 13:08:30
You know Jalex, my 8 year old's hitting coach, who I think I want him to exclusively start working with, is a former Atlanta Braves player from the 80's. He mentioned that he would not worry about playing FOR east cobb at this age. He was of the opinion that they were going to have pretty good pitching.
This is our first travel ball go around and I'm not sure how good ECB's pitching will be. We have beat teams that have beat the 8U Titans and that team we beat said nobody had put the ball over the plate as much and as fast as the boys on our team. I did think that what my son's hitting coach was saying did make sense. If they have a really good program, you want to play against them. Get the reps against them at this point, join them later. |
| jalex |
Posted - 11/12/2012 : 11:53:51
I would not want my hitter to sit much at 14. This is a game of reps, we got to get those at bats. I would go with the other teams. Most of the elite teams at east cobb do not develop, it is about showcasing the atheletes. I think 14 is a little early to stack a team and then you are forced to move kids around every few innings. When you get to the older elite teams you do not see all that movement. If you look at the 17 year old braves and the 16 year old astros, which is pretty much your d- atheletes, I would bet that more than half of those kids played on non elite teams at 14 and 15. Also I would think that less than 50% on those rosters came up through the astros system starting at 14. My point is this there is more than one way to skin a cat and I dont think it is a necessity for your childs development to play on the an elite team. I have been at east cobb for 6 years and I have seen many kids drafted and signed to major d-1 schools. The things I have noticed that they all had in common was that they all had outside trainers(speed and agility, strength conditioning, pitching coach, hitting instructions and fielding instructions). |
| bkball |
Posted - 11/12/2012 : 10:25:47
Well the spring season hasn't started yet so none of us knows how any of our decisions will turn out of if we or our son will be happy with those decisions.
A great deal can happen over the course of the season but I do agree with everyone you should be more concerned with the coaching you are getting than the talent on a team. I would let my son play for a great coach if I knew he would get the reps in practice and get chances in games to earn himself a spot. If I knew a team was not going to practice much but my son was good enough to start had the fundamentals of the sport and good enough to start on a great team I would do that too. For me it is all about good coaching.
Whether in game, or practice. I also tend to think most coaching staffs are better that do not have sons on the team. |
| 10bbizz |
Posted - 11/11/2012 : 06:26:15
We chose East Cobb or should I say East Cobb chose my boy and he excepted. What a great decision. My son has had some good coaches in the past but nothing like Coach Roberts, Coach Pat and Coach Clark. We also chose this team because we knew it would push him to the limits and he would compete at the highest level. I know kids aren't signed at 14 but I also know that him playing against 15 & 16 yr olds puts him in front of recruiters at an early age so at least he can start being on their radar as a potential prospect. |
| baseball papa |
Posted - 11/10/2012 : 22:12:39
Papa "Remembers the Titans". You have chosen well but I am sure that you did not choose to play with the Titans because the name started with East Cobb. I know your Coaches and I know your players and if it had been the B72 Titans it would have been the same good choice. The name will never and should never define the team but the team can and should define the name. It is my humble opinion that the name East Cobb never did anything to make a team better but the organization has done much to instill a sense of pride and a winning attitude that has set the bar at an extremely high level. The major difference we are now seeing that wasn't there in year's past is that there is now many options available to get the same quality training and development that was once only available at East Cobb. East Cobb is still and will always will be a Special baseball place but it is no longer the "Only Game in Town". |
| TalentBB |
Posted - 11/10/2012 : 20:19:38
I may be in over my head with commenting on this topic but my child is new to East Cobb. We are here not for fame but for our son to learn more than we as parents can teach him. Is it more expensive? YES. But as long as our son is dedicated and still wanting to learn the game then we as parents will provide him with the best place and tools we can. So far were extremely happy with our decision. We are the Titans. |
| bballmom5 |
Posted - 11/09/2012 : 23:49:23
Maybe he wanted the challenge and believed he could work hard enough to be starter on A team. |
| rippit |
Posted - 11/09/2012 : 19:30:11
quote:
Originally posted by baseballallday
I'm trying to understand the reasoning so maybe some of you can help. You have Teams A, B and C, A being the more elite team. Teams B and C will play in most of the same tournaments as A and are very competitive teams. Why would a player choose to play for Team A if they are going to be the bench player when if they chose teams B or C they would play every game? I'm talking more about the teenage age groups.
For us it was because he liked playing with team A more. He played like he was inspired. He'd rather sub on that team than start on the other teams. And yes. The practice is what we were both after. |
