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| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| steviejayw |
Posted - 03/09/2012 : 11:11:14
Long time reader, first time poster.
OK. Here's the scenario.
I am a head coach for a 5/6 rec league team. Our league allows 3 locks and we have a draft after a quick player evaluation.
I locked my son (1B) , and my assistant coaches sons P and 2B. I took care of the right side of the infield because in 5/6 thats where most outs come from. All 3 hit well, and are probable all-stars.
The draft is where it gets interesting. We rate players 1-4 stars. My first 3 picks were my 'locked' players, so every team would have a shot at the better players. My 4th pick was the last remaining 3 star player. So now I have 2 4's and 2 3's. On my 7th and 8th picks, I selected a pair of twins that were rated 2 stars. They could not come to the evaluation, so they were given a default rating based on experience and age. Well, as it turns out, the twins' rating would have been more accurate if they were rated 4 stars.
To add to this...some of my 1 and 2 stars are starting to 'get it' and they are getting better...fast.
Now I am hearing from people around the league that we have stacked our team. We haven't even played a game yet, and all kinds of negative remarks are being thrown my way. Believe me when I tell you that I am humble in my demeanor, and I concentrate on teaching the kids the game. All of the kids are having fun, and are improving. I have been explaining to a few people that will listen that I evaluated the kids, and picked the available kids that I thought were undervalued at the evaluation, and seemed coachable.
I am sure this scenario is not uncommon, but it is the first time I have been through this. This is my first year as a head coach, after a few years of being an assistant. Any insight you guys can give me will be appreciated.
Thanks,
Stevie |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Calif_Baseball |
Posted - 03/20/2012 : 20:41:06
I wish I could Post the "Contract" my buddy in Texas sent me that their Coaches wanted him to sign. It is 6 Pages Long. Some of the things in it are funny. Like the part that says "You will pay all dues,Fees & Coaches expenses. This will not Gaurantee Play time for your child." LOL Wait..You want me to pay for everything and then my son may not get to play??
It goes on and on like this for 6 pages |
| in_the_know |
Posted - 03/20/2012 : 14:25:39
You missed the sarcasm font in my reply. Clearly I was insinuating that the drama never stops, only the names change....
quote:
Originally posted by coach0512
And the drama does NOT stop at travel ball. The coaches just get more leeway to fight back.
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| tonywellis |
Posted - 03/20/2012 : 13:25:35
"Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great." Mark Twain
Don't ever apologize for being passionate. Those boys and parents deserve your best. The more you win...the more you will be hated. You will be hated by people you have never met much less spoken to. It comes with the territory and only gets worse no matter the sport. The only ones you need to please are your assistant coaches, your parents, and most of all your boys. Set their expectations early and report back to them intermittently throughout the season. They will be doing your evaluations at the end of the season. That is your list of references if the haters ever send a league Director after you. When the season starts, set a run differential target. In other words when we get up by X number of runs, then All Stars go to the bench, right field, catcher, etc. If some of your All Stars are practicing switch hitting, then what better time to let them practice. Good Luck to you. Enjoy it while you can. Times does fly by.
coach0512 is correct. The drama doesn't stop when you get to travel ball. It gets more sophisticated and specific. |
| coach0512 |
Posted - 03/20/2012 : 11:32:31
And the drama does NOT stop at travel ball. The coaches just get more leeway to fight back. |
| ramman999 |
Posted - 03/20/2012 : 09:38:39
All I can say is wow... Coaches actually complaining about stacked teams in rec tee ball. Most teams are lucky to have 3 kids facing forward most games |
| Calif_Baseball |
Posted - 03/15/2012 : 11:25:45
quote:
Originally posted by in_the_know
Yeah, it stops at travel ball!
quote:
Originally posted by Calif_Baseball
Best Advice I have given.... GET OUT OF REC BALL ASAP!!! The drama never stops.
You are correct, But the subject was about Stacking a team. At least with travelball you don't have to play or pitch little Johnny because daddy is on the board and demanding it. |
| in_the_know |
Posted - 03/14/2012 : 15:02:57
Yeah, it stops at travel ball!
quote:
Originally posted by Calif_Baseball
Best Advice I have given.... GET OUT OF REC BALL ASAP!!! The drama never stops.
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| Calif_Baseball |
Posted - 03/14/2012 : 13:39:32
Best Advice I have given.... GET OUT OF REC BALL ASAP!!! The drama never stops. |
| Bigwhitevan |
Posted - 03/13/2012 : 19:26:05
I will agree you have a stacked team. To assist other teams and not "throw games" start early on all star education with your better players. Have them play left side and left field and get outs at third. Then switch them to right side and get kids at third or home. It lets more of the other team bat in an inning and will help your all star team. The lead runner out becomes much more important in all stars where hardly anybody hits it to pitcher. Not something you HAVE to do because your team is stacked but if the other team bats more than three per inning the parents tone down the stacked talk. Now coaches always complain!!! Lol!!! |
| wareagle |
Posted - 03/13/2012 : 14:39:14
quote:
Better and more fun for everyone involved, except the uber-competitive dad/coaches that get off on having an undefeated, run-rule season. quote:
I thought it was just my town! I think it is usually more about making sure you or one or your friends is the all star coach so that they can make sure thier sons make the team. Isn't it common practice for coaches to pick all stars before the season begins so they can make sure they all end up on the same division??LOL.
Reality usually sets in when these all star coaches decide to sign up for a travelball tournament. |
| sicemdawgs |
Posted - 03/13/2012 : 13:08:56
quote:
Originally posted by steviejayw
Thanks for the replies. I will take a lot from this thread.
As for the folks saying that I take 5/6 too serious, it's the age group that I'm at right now. I'm sure in a few years, you guys will say...'Travel ball is taken too seriously...college is where its at.'
I do concentrate on learning and having fun, and not so much on winning.
Good luck this year to all.
Stevie
Nothing wrong with wanting to do a good job coaching 6u baseball. A rigged team isn't the same thing as a stacked team. Like I said before, it sounds like you have a pretty stacked team, but it doesn't sound like you rigged the system to get it. You got lucky with a few players and you wrapped up 3 good ones with your son and your coaches sons (allowing 3 coach freezes on a 6u rec will always lead to at least one or two stacked teams). Having a team with substantially more or less talent than the other kids at that age isn't really a good thing anyway. The most fun year I coached was 7u and I had a team with 5 kids who had never played before. We had a good team even though we couldn't beat the teams that did rig the draft (i.e., they had to have certain kids that happened to be all stars because they were going to ride together, lol). Still, our good kids got much better playing close games and it was fun watching the kids who hadn't played before having fun and developing a love for baseball.
I've had the "stacked" team and my son has played on teams I didn't coach that were the opposite (in other sports). Kids don't get better blowing out teams without any good players, and kids on teams without a lot of talent don't get much out of getting blown out by rigged teams. IMO rec directors should make a bigger effort to create parity in youth rec leagues. Better and more fun for everyone involved, except the uber-competitive dad/coaches that get off on having an undefeated, run-rule season. |
| steviejayw |
Posted - 03/12/2012 : 12:21:12
Thanks for the replies. I will take a lot from this thread.
As for the folks saying that I take 5/6 too serious, it's the age group that I'm at right now. I'm sure in a few years, you guys will say...'Travel ball is taken too seriously...college is where its at.'
I do concentrate on learning and having fun, and not so much on winning.
Good luck this year to all.
Stevie |
| steviejayw |
Posted - 03/12/2012 : 12:16:38
No to both questions. I don't know why they didn't make the evals. They played in the league last year, but I don't remember them. They both dandelion pickers in the outfield last year (or so their dad says.)
quote:
Originally posted by AllStar
Did you have anything to do with the rating of the 2 star players and did you know better?
Did you have anything to do with the fact that they didn't come to evaluations?
If the answer to either is 'yes', then the carping is somewhat valid.
A not unheard of trick is for someone to tell a friend whose kid is a really good player to not come to tryouts and then the coach would pick them fairly early in the draft. Our league solved that by creating "hat picks". That is, all the kids that did not come were pulled out of a hat after all the kids that did come were drafted. So anybody who didn't come to tryouts was randomly assigned a team.
And if you are just playing one kid at first or second, the two most fun positions at that age, you are taking winning way too seriously.
Our league had a rule that every kid had to play at least 3 (I think, it's been awhile) innings at a non-catcher infield position and no kid could play the same position more than two innings in a row.
I can't believe I just wrote this many words about 5-6 YO baseball.
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| Stinger1 |
Posted - 03/12/2012 : 08:08:08
In rec ball chances are good there will always be a team out there that rec parents will call stacked. I'm sure everyone of us has been down this road before I know I have. We left the park and have been traveling since mine were 7. When we were at the park I worked with my kids a little more than everyone. It's funny how you get frowned upon for teaching your kids to be not only great but winners. My suggestion is play this year out - if you run the table expand out into some tournaments. Isn't that what we are suppossed to do is make our kids better and stronger? If you are coaching your kids to be better - you are doing your job. |
| AllStar |
Posted - 03/11/2012 : 15:48:08
Did you have anything to do with the rating of the 2 star players and did you know better?
Did you have anything to do with the fact that they didn't come to evaluations?
If the answer to either is 'yes', then the carping is somewhat valid.
A not unheard of trick is for someone to tell a friend whose kid is a really good player to not come to tryouts and then the coach would pick them fairly early in the draft. Our league solved that by creating "hat picks". That is, all the kids that did not come were pulled out of a hat after all the kids that did come were drafted. So anybody who didn't come to tryouts was randomly assigned a team.
And if you are just playing one kid at first or second, the two most fun positions at that age, you are taking winning way too seriously.
Our league had a rule that every kid had to play at least 3 (I think, it's been awhile) innings at a non-catcher infield position and no kid could play the same position more than two innings in a row.
I can't believe I just wrote this many words about 5-6 YO baseball. |
| Jack-of-Diamonds |
Posted - 03/11/2012 : 11:57:47
Don't sweat it. You'll be moving to travel in a year or two!
You've got a core of good players and you're already experiencing the "joy" of rec politics. Many a travel team have been created from that formula. Not that politics don't come along with travel, but you will likely at least escape the scrutiny of other league coaches and be playing in a realm where "stacking the team" is a necessary and accepted goal. |
| biged |
Posted - 03/11/2012 : 00:11:13
Memories, Memories. Back 12 yrs ago my son (Now a Junior) and I started our baseball quest in Miami. At 4 and 5 parents/coaches would tell the kids to sand bag it in tryouts. It worked for 1 season and the other coaches like me who were not in the Know learned who could play and things evened out. However, I credit this experience for making my son a stronger, more competitive and determined athlete/person. Nothing makes a person stronger then competing against better stronger opponents. |
| loveforthegame25 |
Posted - 03/10/2012 : 22:46:05
just have fun with it while you can. Before you know it your son will be in High school and you'll be just a dad in the bleachers. Have fun with it man. |
| coachdan06 |
Posted - 03/10/2012 : 00:34:14
Well Im glad to hear you made your bones and worked up to being a 5 and 6 year old coach -- after a couple years of assisting .
For me ,its very diffficuly to imagine anyone being so worked up about the draft of a kindergarten baseball legue .
quote:
Originally posted by stevieja yw
Long time reader, first time poster.
OK. Here's the scenario.
I am a head coach for a 5/6 rec league team. Our league allows 3 locks and we have a draft after a quick player evaluation.
I locked my son (1B) , and my assistant coaches sons P and 2B. I took care of the right side of the infield because in 5/6 thats where most outs come from. All 3 hit well, and are probable all-stars.
The draft is where it gets interesting. We rate players 1-4 stars. My first 3 picks were my 'locked' players, so every team would have a shot at the better players. My 4th pick was the last remaining 3 star player. So now I have 2 4's and 2 3's. On my 7th and 8th picks, I selected a pair of twins that were rated 2 stars. They could not come to the evaluation, so they were given a default rating based on experience and age. Well, as it turns out, the twins' rating would have been more accurate if they were rated 4 stars.
To add to this...some of my 1 and 2 stars are starting to 'get it' and they are getting better...fast.
Now I am hearing from people around the league that we have stacked our team. We haven't even played a game yet, and all kinds of negative remarks are being thrown my way. Believe me when I tell you that I am humble in my demeanor, and I concentrate on teaching the kids the game. All of the kids are having fun, and are improving. I have been explaining to a few people that will listen that I evaluated the kids, and picked the available kids that I thought were undervalued at the evaluation, and seemed coachable.
I am sure this scenario is not uncommon, but it is the first time I have been through this. This is my first year as a head coach, after a few years of being an assistant. Any insight you guys can give me will be appreciated.
Thanks,
Stevie
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| RACGOFAR |
Posted - 03/09/2012 : 23:27:03
It's funny how the good coaches always seem to get stacked teams. I was accused of this it seems like every year. you got to pick one kid per round like everyone else. You have 4 allstar caliber players, 4 kids right behind them and 4 kids who enjoy playing in the dirt and live for the snack after the game. So does every other team. If you spend time working with those bottom 4 kids, you will have a super stacked team by the end of the season.
Inevitably there are 2-3 coaches in each park per age group that seem to always have the talented kids. Or maybe they just know how to teach young kids the game of baseball. Focus on your players and not what the naysayers think. Don't focus on winning, focus on having fun and giving kids a chance to play everywhere within their ability to do so.
Something we did that became a tradition in those younger leagues was to let the moms coach the last game of the season while the coaches sit in the stands. Talk about fun to watch, you'll never see Moms more fired up than when they are on the
field! |
| CoachDad |
Posted - 03/09/2012 : 23:14:58
Luckily, you haven't played any games yet. There is still plenty of time t tank the season and prove the haters wrong.
:-) |
| coach0512 |
Posted - 03/09/2012 : 15:55:32
Enough posters have written about what to do with the kids.
I'll tell you what may happen to you and your coaches.
Way back 6 years ago when I was evaluating rec league players and going through the same thing you are with the locked players and draft at the age of 6, the other coach and I picked who we thought were the best 12 players available. In the draft room we were amazed at some of the kids who were being picked. We had those same kids rated very low or middle of the pack. We were picking kids the other coaches thought were very low rated and even laughed when we picked a 4 year old for the 6 year old team (he would turn five just a week after evals).
At the end of the season we were undefeated having run ruled almost every team and that 4 year old eventually went on to be a first round pick constantly and made all-stars consistently. All the other coaches and most other parents disliked our team and coaching staffs saying we stacked the team, somehow cheated, it was not fair, they must be coaching the kids too hard, they should have had to send some of their players to other teams, etc.
From that season all the way to now, 6 years later, out of rec ball and playing travel, there are still rumors and lies thrown around about that season. There is even a family playing with me now who doesn't like me because of that season.
Not one of those haters ever approached us coaches and discussed it with us, they just hated. So, ya move on and keep doin' what you're doin' and they can live with their hate.
Bottom line is- Pick the kids you think are best, coach them as best you can, and if the other coaches picked the wrong kids, it's on them, not you. ANY coach in that draft room could have taken the twins but they passed because they did not like a 2 star rated kid. Thats their fault, not yours. |
| steviejayw |
Posted - 03/09/2012 : 14:58:59
Working on that now. I'll post it when finished.
quote:
Originally posted by dad4kids
We need far more data to properly analyze the caliber of these five and six year old players with the requisite level of attention. How about some Sabermetrics? How about some more information about their measurables: height, weight, bench press, 40 times, etc.? Also some some biographical info for each player. What's their gene pool like? Any former athletes within three degrees of separation?
If you can get this to everybody in an Excel format and limit it to 40 pages per player, that'd be great.
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| steviejayw |
Posted - 03/09/2012 : 14:32:50
Everyone had the same opportunity to lock 3 players. The locked players went through evals also and were rated as well. In the draft when we went to pick the 4's, I had to pick my locks first. The other teams, if they did not have a 4 locked were able to pick a unlocked 4. We're just about all equal on those.
The fact that I got the twins that were greatly underrated is what I believe put me over the top. They were 2 of the last 3 2star players available (my #7 & #8 picks). It does sound fishy that they were 2 stars, but even I passed on them for my first 2 2 star picks.
quote:
Originally posted by sicemdawgs
[quote]Originally posted by steviejayw
You do have a stacked team by the sounds of it. If the other coaches don't have three "coach-locked" star players like you do (they're already a notch behind you), plus you got a bargain by picking up the twins that didn't show at the evaluation. Now you have 5 star players not including your "3 star" pick. If you have 5 or 6 all-star quality players in a 5/6 rec league you're stacked. Doesn't mean you've done anything wrong if you didn't try to rig the draft. The only thing that sounds fishy are your 4 star twins that were rated 2 star because they didn't try out. If I was one of the other coaches with only 3 or 4 good players I'd probably be pretty suspicious about that, lol.
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| steviejayw |
Posted - 03/09/2012 : 14:22:29
Good idea. Thanks.
quote:
Originally posted by Tribe
This seems to be an awfully complex analysis for a 5/6 rec team, but I'll play along.
At this age, no kid should be assigned a static position. Rotate your stronger players to less critical positions, thereby giving your weaker players more action through exposure to the slots on the right side (and everywhere else). Everyone (including yours and your assistants' kids) will be better off.
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