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bkball
173 Posts |
 Posted - 08/24/2017 : 09:52:40
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Problem is you can't compete against the big schools in the Nation just picking players from GA. That is like a high school team thinking they can compete in a PG World Wood Bat Tournament.
UGA from what I have seen did pick some of the best players in GA they need to get more players from out of state. Florida and California might could do it but other states can not.
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bama21
278 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2017 : 11:24:10
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| Obviously, they will have to look out of state, all colleges do. What I'm saying is, a lot of talent is leaving Georgia and I know quite a few of them would have stayed home if the offer had come earlier. If your a freshman or sophomore and you get an offer from a top D1 program from out-of-state, more than likely you will verbally accept. You can't wait until your in-state schools get around to it. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2017 : 12:18:49
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| Here's the issue, at least in part. There are, what, 6 in-state D1 programs? Say they each take in 10 kids every year. That's only 60 kids TOTAL going into in-state D1 programs. And not every one of those 60 spots are HS seniors, there are probably a fairly high number of JUCO recruits included in that number. There are A LOT more kids playing baseball as seniors in HS than 60. And it is obvious that all 60 will not be from in-state. The funnel gets smaller as you move up the ladder. It may seem like the in-state D1s aren't recruiting a lot of in-state kids. But, the reality is that there aren't a lot of slots for D1 programs opening up every year. |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2017 : 13:14:46
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quote:
Originally posted by bama21
Obviously, they will have to look out of state, all colleges do. What I'm saying is, a lot of talent is leaving Georgia and I know quite a few of them would have stayed home if the offer had come earlier. If your a freshman or sophomore and you get an offer from a top D1 program from out-of-state, more than likely you will verbally accept. You can't wait until your in-state schools get around to it.
I have heard of kids contacting school XYZ and saying "I have been offered by school 123, I had hoped to attend your school, by any chance am I on your board?" If UGA is sent an email like this saying LSU offered them but they really want to go UGA I think UGA would take a look at the kid.
If the player is interested in a particular school and has the tools to play there then they should contact that school rather than taking the out of state offer. |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2017 : 07:57:03
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quote:
Originally posted by bballman
Here's the issue, at least in part. There are, what, 6 in-state D1 programs? Say they each take in 10 kids every year. That's only 60 kids TOTAL going into in-state D1 programs. And not every one of those 60 spots are HS seniors, there are probably a fairly high number of JUCO recruits included in that number. There are A LOT more kids playing baseball as seniors in HS than 60. And it is obvious that all 60 will not be from in-state. The funnel gets smaller as you move up the ladder. It may seem like the in-state D1s aren't recruiting a lot of in-state kids. But, the reality is that there aren't a lot of slots for D1 programs opening up every year.
How many high school seniors are really D-1 material? Most schools have none, the lucky schools have 1, the truly blessed schools might have 3 going D1 even at the really big and talented schools. I would guess there aren't 40 D1 seniors a year in GA.. |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2017 : 10:13:55
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I think there are more than 40. According to Baseball America, they had 32 Georgia kids listed as potential draft picks in the 2017 draft. I don't know how many of them wound up getting drafted or how many went to college, but those are at least 32 that would be D1 material. There are also plenty of kids who wind up going to a D1 school who get no look at all from the MLB. I doubt many, if not any, kids going to Georgia State have even a shot at getting drafted out of HS. They may been seen as having the potential, but not serious consideration. No, there are way more than 40 who are potential D1 material in Georgia.
http://www.baseballamerica.com/draft/2017-state-draft-report-georgia/
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Shut Out
512 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2017 : 10:58:22
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quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
quote:
Originally posted by bballman
Here's the issue, at least in part. There are, what, 6 in-state D1 programs? Say they each take in 10 kids every year. That's only 60 kids TOTAL going into in-state D1 programs. And not every one of those 60 spots are HS seniors, there are probably a fairly high number of JUCO recruits included in that number. There are A LOT more kids playing baseball as seniors in HS than 60. And it is obvious that all 60 will not be from in-state. The funnel gets smaller as you move up the ladder. It may seem like the in-state D1s aren't recruiting a lot of in-state kids. But, the reality is that there aren't a lot of slots for D1 programs opening up every year.
How many high school seniors are really D-1 material? Most schools have none, the lucky schools have 1, the truly blessed schools might have 3 going D1 even at the really big and talented schools. I would guess there aren't 40 D1 seniors a year in GA..
you are right on which is why there is a big difference in many of the hs programs in ga. If you look at most of the schools that continue to pump out d1 prospects they are a bit of an anomaly. i.e Parkview, Walton, Pope |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2017 : 11:44:21
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quote:
Originally posted by bballman
I think there are more than 40. According to Baseball America, they had 32 Georgia kids listed as potential draft picks in the 2017 draft. I don't know how many of them wound up getting drafted or how many went to college, but those are at least 32 that would be D1 material. There are also plenty of kids who wind up going to a D1 school who get no look at all from the MLB. I doubt many, if not any, kids going to Georgia State have even a shot at getting drafted out of HS. They may been seen as having the potential, but not serious consideration. No, there are way more than 40 who are potential D1 material in Georgia.
http://www.baseballamerica.com/draft/2017-state-draft-report-georgia/
I didn't realize there were that many. That is an interesting report. Does anyone else have a report like that?
The problem with that particular report, aside from having 13 college kids in there, is that several of those kids weren't drafted, and were very clear they didn't want to be drafted. I can name 3 of them on that list that were like that. I can also name kids NOT on that list that went D1 WITH a scholarship.
Do you think there IS a list of actual 2017 D1 baseball scholarshiped athletes amongst the GA high School seniors? |
Edited by - CaCO3Girl on 08/25/2017 13:03:14 |
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bballman
1432 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2017 : 17:58:20
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Maybe start by looking at some of the travel team rosters or alumni pages. I just looked up the class of 2016 for 643 and they list 15 kids going to D1 schools for baseball, in and out of state. That's from one program. Or better yet, go to perfect game and find the college commitments page. I did a search for 2016 commitments from Georgia and counted 100 commits to D1 schools before I got tired of counting. They may not all have happened and some may have been drafted, but I guarantee there were a lot more that went D1 than 40. They all can't go to Georgia schools.
https://www.perfectgame.org/College/CollegeCommitments.aspx
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Edited by - bballman on 08/25/2017 22:04:05 |
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Crazyforbball
391 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2017 : 12:22:05
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| If you have the HOPE can you even have a baseball scholarship? Or the other way around..if you get a baseball scholarship and are also HOPE eligible does HOPE pick up the balance to provide a full ride? Is UGA for example able to offer "side" scholarships when it's a public school vs private? |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2017 : 07:34:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Crazyforbball
If you have the HOPE can you even have a baseball scholarship? Or the other way around..if you get a baseball scholarship and are also HOPE eligible does HOPE pick up the balance to provide a full ride? Is UGA for example able to offer "side" scholarships when it's a public school vs private?
There are rules about what other money can be applied with a baseball scholarship is involved. They discussed it over on the high school board last week, you may want to go look, and perhaps ask that question.
http://community.hsbaseballweb.com/topic/paying-for-college-1 |
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bama21
278 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2017 : 08:08:09
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| It's not a question of how many are going D1, it's when did they get committed. The question I would ask is, when did the top prospects from Georgia get committed? Most of the top talent will not be there in their junior and senior years, they will be committed already, probably out-of-state. |
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Crazyforbball
391 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2017 : 10:17:16
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| Thanks caco3 will look over there! |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2017 : 13:19:43
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quote:
Originally posted by bama21
It's not a question of how many are going D1, it's when did they get committed. The question I would ask is, when did the top prospects from Georgia get committed? Most of the top talent will not be there in their junior and senior years, they will be committed already, probably out-of-state.
Position players, yes, probably. Pitchers...I don't know. There are the rare guys who were throwing over 90 in 9th grade, so sure why not offer them? The coach is suppose to be offering who can help the program the minute they set foot on campus, but there are also the guys that go 9th =80, 10th = 85, 11th = 90, 12th = 95. I don't think all the top guys in 9th grade stayed in the top, some kids stalled out, but MANY kids took this progression:
Brady Aiken, the guy who could have possibly gone #1 in the draft two years in a row:
summer 2011 = Touched 85, sat 79-83mph
summer 2012 = Touched 88, sat 85-88mph
summer 2013 = touched 92, sat 88-92mph
2014 he apparently didn't play PG events so I don't know what he got up to but he graduated in 2014 and went #1 in the draft.
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bama21
278 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2017 : 13:58:37
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| Yeah, there are no absolutes in recruiting...wait, don't wait, who knows. With that said, if the kid is getting committed by an out-of-state top D1 program, you may want to ask yourself, what are we missing here. |
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Vandy
36 Posts |
Posted - 08/31/2017 : 13:42:03
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| Historically I would agree that UGA was sloppy about recruiting relying on the notion everyone instate wanted to play there or Tech. I know they just gave a full ride to a local, tall, lefthander who just turned 16. Perhaps they are at least modifying the mold. One thing seemingly unmentioned, there is now more than ever an awareness of certain coaches and programs good and bad. The days of false promises, rescinded offers, etc, now more than ever are dwindling. Everyone knows where the program is and going unless there is a new coaching situation or a huge vacuum of existing 4th year players. As a parent, to a degree, I'd take a great coach and staff more times than not over an "A" list school unless there were academic limitations. I'd also think that any team able to get all of the Ga talent in a given year would be unbeatable if coached properly. Having grown up in Ca it's tough to get the top shelf players out there to move here. Forget about wins and losses. Stanford, USC and UCLA get first look. Always. For the great player without grades, there is generally one direction and that is the pros. For the most part due to so many great Juco's in Ca and Az where most pro scouts live. It appears there is a big push recently to start looking at 15's. Putting the other shoe on, I'm not so sure about signing one unless there was some super genetics with an elite athlete parent or two. There is a lot more to playing a D1 sport than playing the game. |
Edited by - Vandy on 08/31/2017 20:31:00 |
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satchel
28 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2017 : 12:50:45
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NO ONE gets a full baseball scholarship. Maybe baseball money and academic money, but not full ride baseball money. 11.3 scholarships to divide over 35 players.
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in_the_know
985 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2017 : 15:46:42
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quote:
Originally posted by satchel
NO ONE gets a full baseball scholarship. Maybe baseball money and academic money, but not full ride baseball money. 11.3 scholarships to divide over 35 players.
You're wrong on a couple of fronts. First, there are players who do receive full scholarships. I know this to be fact. Second, it's 11.7 scholarships that MAY be spread over a maximum of 27 players (that's the max number of players in D1 baseball that the NCAA allows to receive athletic scholarship money. Third, schools may not be fully funded for each sport (i.e., a school may not even have the 11.7 allowed AND they are not required to give athletic money to 27 players, they may only scholarship 20 total of the 27 allowed from the 35 man roster limit.
If a player receives ANY athletic scholarship, they must receive a minimum of 25%.
But there are definitely players receiving FULL ATHLETIC scholarships in baseball.
What is interesting with UGA and GT is that nearly every offer they make starts with "We'll cover tuition, books, food, housing (or some portion/percentage of any of those) AFTER HOPE". So essentially, they are leveraging HOPE as part of the total offer. Parents need to realize that only about 20-25% of players maintain HOPE eligibility through their playing career. So what may seem like a great package will likely have a portion lost throughout the student's career.
To that point, offers from out of state school may often be more than the rival in-state school because the school knows they have to sweeten the offer to lure a top ranked prospect out of state (and out of the in-state tuition rates). They will also hype the Academic Common Market (ACM) which allows students to attend an out of state school at in state tuition rates (only allowable for certain states and specific majors). In some cases, an offer from an out of state might be two-fold, $X,xxx if player comes in with ACM or $XX,xxx if player comes as an out-of-state student.
I know of a player who received offers from three in-state D1's. All stated the award was "cover after HOPE" contingent and all of the out of state offers this same player received were financially better.
In-state schools are saving athletic money on in state students and using that savings to attract high profile prospects from other states. All schools with lottery money are doing this. They bank on the desire of the kid to want to play for his home state Big U to lean them heavily toward playing at home. Unfortunately for Georgia, there are crazy good options in the SEC/ACC region that diminish some of that loyalty.
Recruiting in Equivalency sports is very different that recruiting in Headcount sports where that home state loyalty weighs in more heavily since scholarships are essentially all equal. |
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satchel
28 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2017 : 19:38:25
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During the college world series, 2 of 200 players had a full ride. So when I say never, I mean almost never. Definitely not as much as you hear parents claiming little Johnny is on a full ride to play baseball. Of that 11.7 scholarships, most of that $$ goes to pitching.
There are 35 players on a college roster. The 11.7 is divided over 27 players. My point was every time I hear about someone getting an offer, everyone says they are getting a full ride. Simply not true.
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in_the_know
985 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2017 : 08:27:33
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quote:
Originally posted by satchel
During the college world series, 2 of 200 players had a full ride. So when I say never, I mean almost never. Definitely not as much as you hear parents claiming little Johnny is on a full ride to play baseball. Of that 11.7 scholarships, most of that $$ goes to pitching.
There are 35 players on a college roster. The 11.7 is divided over 27 players. My point was every time I hear about someone getting an offer, everyone says they are getting a full ride. Simply not true.
You're mostly correct (and I'm being specific so that other readers will be clear). The 11.7 aren't necessarily spread over 27 players. 27 is the max number of player that CAN receive athletic aid, but the schools aren't required to give athletic money to any minimum number of players. Some school may only have 15 or 20 on athletic aid, so they can break up the 11.7 in larger chunks (remember, if a player receives ANY athletic aid, it must be a minimum of 25%).
So if a coach does choose to give athletic aid to the max 27 he can, he'll chew up 6.75 of his total 11.7 scholarships as a minimum and only have 4.95 total left to sweeten the pot for some of those 27.
I don't disagree that many embellish the offers/scholarships their kid has. Many consider the combination of athletic and academic money combined and call it a full-ride (if the combination covers 100%), and they're not wrong, just a bit misleading.
I just wanted to clarify because many of the parents reading this forum are pre-high school and it's very important that they understand the realities of how the scholarship division works. Many people believe that it's a headcount sport and don't learn until they're in HS that it's not.
Caco gave a link to a forum that is focused on the HS player and there is a wealth of information about college and pro recruiting. If you have a son that aspires to play beyond HS, I highly suggest familiarizing yourself with that forum. It has invaluable information as well as active members with a ton of information who have gone through or are going through the recruiting process. |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2017 : 09:01:29
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quote:
Originally posted by satchel
During the college world series, 2 of 200 players had a full ride. So when I say never, I mean almost never. Definitely not as much as you hear parents claiming little Johnny is on a full ride to play baseball. Of that 11.7 scholarships, most of that $$ goes to pitching.
There are 35 players on a college roster. The 11.7 is divided over 27 players. My point was every time I hear about someone getting an offer, everyone says they are getting a full ride. Simply not true.
I don't hear about EVERYONE getting a full ride, it's usually 25-40%.
Also, it's a slippery slope to have academic and athletic money. Lots of different rules depending on what type of program. The kid might have a 3.4 GPA, be in the top 20% of the class and get a 1150 on their SAT's...and they can't get both academic and athletic money UNLESS the academic money counts against the 11.7.
http://www.diycollegerankings.com/can-college-athletes-receive-athletic-academic-scholarships/6267/ |
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Vandy
36 Posts |
Posted - 09/07/2017 : 13:26:59
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| Well outlined and factual In the know.. Yes, I am very cognizant of the fact that a full ride in baseball is a near phantom. That is why I brought up this particular athlete and the offer from Georgia. He was also cottled by Auburn. Others were knocking. They would not offer a full ride. In fact, they had no intention of accepting any offers for another year until this came up. Hope for this family will be very meager at best due to income. Not sure to the degree this info becomes public knowledge however I don't think it will be secret who this particular player is for long. This particular offer and commitment surprised me. |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2017 : 08:52:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Vandy
Well outlined and factual In the know.. Yes, I am very cognizant of the fact that a full ride in baseball is a near phantom. That is why I brought up this particular athlete and the offer from Georgia. He was also cottled by Auburn. Others were knocking. They would not offer a full ride. In fact, they had no intention of accepting any offers for another year until this came up. Hope for this family will be very meager at best due to income. Not sure to the degree this info becomes public knowledge however I don't think it will be secret who this particular player is for long. This particular offer and commitment surprised me.
And when they come back to him senior year a week before he signs the NLI and only offer him 50% it will not be surprising. |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2017 : 11:04:04
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Okay, I just had to report back. According to PG website Georgia has the following commitments:
Class of 2018 = 7 (6 are from GA)
Class of 2019 = 9 (All are from GA)
Class of 2020 = 0
In the entire state of GA only 3 class of 2020 kids are claiming they are committed. I don't see how GA is behind on recruiting kids. |
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bama21
278 Posts |
Posted - 09/13/2017 : 12:42:38
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It really isn't about the number of commitments, that will vary by year, but rather the quality of each.
According to PG rankings for Georgia:
2019 Commitments- UGA has 2 out of the top 25 and Ga. Tech has 2.
2018 Commitments- UGA has 2 out of the top 25 and Ga. Tech has 3.
A lot of variables go into these decisions i.e. everyone judges talent differently, the needs of the program that particular year, top players turned down offer....and so on. We will never know what happens with each top prospect, but you would think that most of the top talent in Georgia would have some inclination to want to stay home. |
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In state college rankings
