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baseballpapa
1520 Posts |
 Posted - 03/02/2010 : 21:44:58
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| Papa was just looking at some of the rosters of the 12U teams that we will be playing and was super surprised that some of the same kids are listed on as many as 5 different rosters for 2010. Is this OK and if it is why even have a roster. The big hitter for the Stixx is listed on 5 rosters and several Stixx players are listed on both the Stixx and Astro's roster. I could care less but I would like to know the benefit of this. I fully understand that you will all say that this is elite travel ball and I agree but why have a roster if you can be listed and legal on 20 different teams at the same time. What's the answer here Bubba. |
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lottapop
257 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2010 : 22:30:12
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| Papa, click on the current roster setting and those other teams will disappear. It is confusing sometimes. |
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baseballpapa
1520 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2010 : 23:11:49
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| Thanks. I didn't think that I could be reading this the right way. You've got to remember that Papa is old school and our rosters were written on a piece of paper and that was so I could add or subtract with an eraser. |
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ecbstix
115 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2010 : 05:41:03
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| I think on the current roster you will see the 2 from the Stixx that came over to the Astros should no longer be on the Stixx roster. The Denton kid told me the other day that he was on several teams 12u,13u,league and his middle school team. I can hardly make enough time for one kid to play on one team! |
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sirlurker
187 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2010 : 05:59:04
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| As lottapop suggested, you have to click on "Current Roster" to see who is on the roster for 2010. I think the first roster that shows has everyone that was on the roster from 2009....you are not the first and won't be the last to get confused by that USSSA page.... |
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2010 : 08:31:22
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lottapop:
"show current" drops 2 players off the 12u Major Stixx roster, but still leaves boys who are listed on multiple rosters, so doesn't answer PaPa's question entirely.
PaPa:
In Georgia USSSA, up until April 1st, its like the Wild Wild West. Just about anything goes with roster rules. There is one exception though, and that's for teams playing in the Major class S-NIT March 19th. The Wild Wild West stuff ends for the team who wins it. At that moment, their roster is locked in, or "frozen". So, you had better take the players to the S-NIT you plan to have on your team through August 1st. If a team brings a borrowed player to S-NIT and the team that borrowed him wins it, that borrowed player is now full time with the S-NIT winner, and can't return to his "regular" team.
Why do boys play on multiple teams? I think the #1 reason is that their primary team doesn't play tourneys every weekend, or often enough for them, and they want more action on the weekends their primary team doesn't play.
After April 1st, this practice nearly disappears because it becomes very easy to become "frozen" to a team a boy fills in for.
Note to USSSA: We still to add the "date frozen" to the web site. That needs to be in place by 3-25 for roster rules to be enforceable.
If a team is "borrowing" players in the Major class of the S-NIT, or beyond April 1st in any class, they are either ignorant of the rules, or they are cheating.
Hope I answered your question PaPa. |
Edited by - bmoser on 03/03/2010 09:13:06 |
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lottapop
257 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2010 : 09:26:37
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| Moser, Nope....that roster is current. My son is in the same boat in which this discussion is based on. He shows up on another roster as well but when clicked on "current", he only shows up on his current team as of now. We played with the Stixx from the TC state tourney thru the Elite 32 and I know his roster is current as of now. |
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jaguars18
245 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2010 : 10:37:13
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Is this OK and if it is why even have a roster.
This topic comes up every week..You can be on more than one roster!!! Does anyone not get this??
Also you have current and all players who have been at one time or another on it. IF you borrow a couple of players for a tournament from another team and want to be legal you add them and then remove from current afterwards. |
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2010 : 10:47:19
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The question was, why do players appear on multiple rosters?, which can, and does, happen often from August 1st to April 1st and is totally within the rules. Players can be on 50 rosters if they choose between these dates (in Georgia, I now know FLA is different).
Boys playing on multiple teams seems to occur much more in Florida than it does in the ATL metro area. Just compare MBA Pride's 11U roster to the 11u Bandits for example.
quote:
Originally posted by lottapop
Moser, Nope....that roster is current. My son is in the same boat in which this discussion is based on. He shows up on another roster as well but when clicked on "current", he only shows up on his current team as of now. We played with the Stixx from the TC state tourney thru the Elite 32 and I know his roster is current as of now.
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LeftyBat
160 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2010 : 10:49:15
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quote:
Originally posted by bmoser
lottapop:
"show current" drops 2 players off the 12u Major Stixx roster, but still leaves boys who are listed on multiple rosters, so doesn't answer PaPa's question entirely.
PaPa:
In Georgia USSSA, up until April 1st, its like the Wild Wild West. Just about anything goes with roster rules. There is one exception though, and that's for teams playing in the Major class S-NIT March 19th. The Wild Wild West stuff ends for the team who wins it. At that moment, their roster is locked in, or "frozen". So, you had better take the players to the S-NIT you plan to have on your team through August 1st. If a team brings a borrowed player to S-NIT and the team that borrowed him wins it, that borrowed player is now full time with the S-NIT winner, and can't return to his "regular" team.
Why do boys play on multiple teams? I think the #1 reason is that their primary team doesn't play tourneys every weekend, or often enough for them, and they want more action on the weekends their primary team doesn't play.
After April 1st, this practice nearly disappears because it becomes very easy to become "frozen" to a team a boy fills in for.
Note to USSSA: We still to add the "date frozen" to the web site. That needs to be in place by 3-25 for roster rules to be enforceable.
If a team is "borrowing" players in the Major class of the S-NIT, or beyond April 1st in any class, they are either ignorant of the rules, or they are cheating.
Hope I answered your question PaPa.
Two questions. What is the significance of the April 1 date and does this apply only to boys who are playing only on Major teams. Are major rosters frozen on April 1 even if they have not qualified? If the rosters are frozen then they are allowed 3 adds?
My sons coach and I were just discussing this last night. We came to the conclusion that no boy playing triple AAA or AA baseball has to worry about what roster he plays on until his team wins a state berth, which cannot happen before they qualify one, two or at large through a sub state. So AA and AAA players cannot have a frozen roster until they play in a sub state. They are free to guest play, but if they play up with a team that has their roster frozen, then they cannot go back to their former team unless they are released by the coach of the team they played up with? |
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baseballpapa
1520 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2010 : 11:34:11
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| Papa is going to hire a USSSA consultant and pay him to make sure Papa is playing legal. |
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JCB
88 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2010 : 13:24:59
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baseballpapa - you are a legend, and I was hoping to meet you, or atleast see you in action, but the more I think about it I prefer not and to let my imagination run wild with the proud grandparent/baseball coach/baseball afecienado, etc. vision that I see in my mind's eye. I am picturing Leo Doroucher running the Bandits. You even pull off third person somewhat OK. Good luck to this season. |
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lottapop
257 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2010 : 13:28:59
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I agree with ya on that one. Take a look at Leon Medical,Chet Lemons Juice and orange county outlaws. I still scratch my head sometimes trying to figure out who plays for who. LOL
quote:
Originally posted by bmoser
The question was, why do players appear on multiple rosters?, which can, and does, happen often from August 1st to April 1st and is totally within the rules. Players can be on 50 rosters if they choose between these dates (in Georgia, I now know FLA is different).
Boys playing on multiple teams seems to occur much more in Florida than it does in the ATL metro area. Just compare MBA Pride's 11U roster to the 11u Bandits for example.
quote:
Originally posted by lottapop
Moser, Nope....that roster is current. My son is in the same boat in which this discussion is based on. He shows up on another roster as well but when clicked on "current", he only shows up on his current team as of now. We played with the Stixx from the TC state tourney thru the Elite 32 and I know his roster is current as of now.
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ecbstix
115 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2010 : 15:03:09
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| As a fan of Georgia Travel Ball it kinda makes you proud that most Georgia teams compete without borrowed talent. Says something for what we do down here! |
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2010 : 16:07:10
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Leftybat:
Best to go to Georgia USSSA's web site and read section 4 a few times. Its only 2 pages, but its tough to understand. By the 3rd time reading it, I felt like I got it.
Generally speaking, the roster rules are less restrictive between August 1st and April 1st than most think, and more restrictive after April 1st than most think. Its very easy to become frozen to a team after April 1st. Its not qualifying for the States in the June sub states that freezes players, its qualifying for the World Series that freezes players (beginning April 1st).
USSSA makes a ton of money in their World Series', so they make it very easy to qualify. Its many times easier to qualify for the World Series than it is to qualify for States.
It doesn't matter which level; A,AA,AAA, or Majors, the rules apply to all classifications. Majors are just treated differently when it comes to winning the S-NIT.
I would not let my son play for another team in a USSSA event after April 1st if I were you unless his primary team had no plans to play in any USSSA events for the remainder of the season.
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Edited by - bmoser on 03/03/2010 19:52:10 |
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2010 : 16:24:01
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I agree. It happened just last weekend and cost some friends of mine a championship. I wont name names, but its poor form in my opinion.
If you are truly short a player or two to fill a team and be able to play (I've been in that position myself), that's one thing, but when your 11th player is a ringer and he pitches the entire championship game, that's bad sportsmanship. I guess I'm old school.
On the 2 most recent occasions I saw it occur, both times it was unknown and new teams from outside the metro area that came into ATL to play. Most of us know each other and the players well enough to recognize a ringer, but when a team comes in from outside our area to play, there's no way to recognize it unless you review their current roster prior to the game. Both times the out of town teams ringer pitched the entire championship game, and determined the outcome of the game.
quote:
Originally posted by ecbstix
As a fan of Georgia Travel Ball it kinda makes you proud that most Georgia teams compete without borrowed talent. Says something for what we do down here!
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LeftyBat
160 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2010 : 21:38:58
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quote:
Originally posted by bmoser
Leftybat:
Best to go to Georgia USSSA's web site and read section 4 a few times. Its only 2 pages, but its tough to understand. By the 3rd time reading it, I felt like I got it.
Generally speaking, the roster rules are less restrictive between August 1st and April 1st than most think, and more restrictive after April 1st than most think. Its very easy to become frozen to a team after April 1st. Its not qualifying for the States in the June sub states that freezes players, its qualifying for the World Series that freezes players (beginning April 1st).
USSSA makes a ton of money in their World Series', so they make it very easy to qualify. Its many times easier to qualify for the World Series than it is to qualify for States.
It doesn't matter which level; A,AA,AAA, or Majors, the rules apply to all classifications. Majors are just treated differently when it comes to winning the S-NIT.
I would not let my son play for another team in a USSSA event after April 1st if I were you unless his primary team had no plans to play in any USSSA events for the remainder of the season.
Thanks! So it appears that what I need to know is what world series bids are up for grabs in any tournament and understand that if my son guest plays, he will be stuck if the team he plays for earns a bid...(unless the coach releases him, but then he will need to find ANOTHER team to play on as he will not be able to go back to his first team.) or maybe he would as long as the other coach he guest played for released him? (assuming his first team had not released him once already...) |
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bigfan
105 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2010 : 22:32:29
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| Where's Bubba when you need him? |
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gausssa
209 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 00:38:50
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Sorry guys but i have had 3 tournaments in a row and getting ready for the Super Nit and Global WSQ coming up this month.
It does seem as the roster question has been answered in regards to roster not being frozen until April 1 or when a Major wins the Super. I for one have never made it a secrete and do not encourage kids playing on multi rosters. You are risking injury , burn-out and major parent problems. I realize our rules allow it but i wished they didn't. Only parents/coach's can control it til April 1.
Bmoser is right,you better have your rosters set before the Super if your a major or April 1 if not because some kid can mess around and get frozen to a higher class than his full time team is playing and then guess what. They have lost him for the year as he can only move lateral for the rest of the summer. I promise everyone one of you that some kid or team will get screwed this year on allowing kids to play on multi rosters. When it happens, don' call me.... |
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Alter-Ego
802 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 10:09:03
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The April 1st date has been there for a long time because that typically was the start of the baseball season for the spring. Tryouts usually went on in Jan and Feb, practice in Feb and March. Now tryouts are in August and tournaments have crept into March, and even Feb.
Personally I don't think any "Qualifying" tournaments should go on prior to the April 1st date. This would keep down the conflict. The rosters are flexible to then. |
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LeftyBat
160 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 10:51:56
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quote:
Originally posted by gausssa
Sorry guys but i have had 3 tournaments in a row and getting ready for the Super Nit and Global WSQ coming up this month.
It does seem as the roster question has been answered in regards to roster not being frozen until April 1 or when a Major wins the Super. I for one have never made it a secrete and do not encourage kids playing on multi rosters. You are risking injury , burn-out and major parent problems. I realize our rules allow it but i wished they didn't. Only parents/coach's can control it til April 1.
Bmoser is right,you better have your rosters set before the Super if your a major or April 1 if not because some kid can mess around and get frozen to a higher class than his full time team is playing and then guess what. They have lost him for the year as he can only move lateral for the rest of the summer. I promise everyone one of you that some kid or team will get screwed this year on allowing kids to play on multi rosters. When it happens, don' call me....
Sorry I am struggling with this, but obviously its important to get this right... My son is a major baseball player, playing on a double a team (not going to go into why, it just happened that way, partly because of reclassification. If I had know reclassification was coming, I might have done things differently...) This double a team has a high degree of likelyhood that they will not play in the USSSA state series or the world series. They may be done by late May.
So what I think I hear you saying is that if my son guest plays on another major team and they qualify and have their roster frozen, even if the coach of the Major team releases him and even if his AA team does not have a frozen roster, he can't go back to that team or any team in AA or AAA class, he would have to go to another Major team. And if I hear you right, if he guest plays on a major team after April 1, he counts as one of their 3 allowed roster adds? Is he then frozen to the team he guest played after April 1?
Lastly are only major rosters frozen or are AA and AAA rosters frozen on April 1.
Clearly my intent is simple. Looking for a major team that wants to pick up a player after my sons AA team is done with their season, with the idea that I might want my son to guest play a tournament or two with this team if he can during the regular season when his AA team has open weekends, and ideally looking to begin to establish a relationship that might lead to where we land at 13U. Just want to do this in a way that my son fulfills his committment to his AA team and does not jeopardize his opportunity to play up later in the season. |
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baseballpapa
1520 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 11:37:29
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| Papa used to play baseball where you made your roster and stuck with it. What satisfaction does any team or Coach for that matter get out of winning with another teams players. If you are just using the player in order to qualify and then not be able to use him for what you qualified for then what have you proved other than you knew up front that your team was not good enough on its own to qualify. Gosh, What a mouthful that was. |
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beanball
222 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 13:57:48
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quote:
Originally posted by baseballpapa
Papa used to play baseball where you made your roster and stuck with it. What satisfaction does any team or Coach for that matter get out of winning with another teams players. If you are just using the player in order to qualify and then not be able to use him for what you qualified for then what have you proved other than you knew up front that your team was not good enough on its own to qualify. Gosh, What a mouthful that was.
Amen. |
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beanball
222 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2010 : 07:02:46
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| Ok, how about this scenario. Can a player play on two different rosters in the same tournament, like say the Slugfest this weekend? Using a different first name. And lets say he pitches 4 innings on team A Friday night. The he pitches 4 innnings on team B Saturday because team A has no games. Then he comes back and pitches 4 innings on Team A again on Sunday. Not saying its giong to happen but is a possibility. |
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LeftyBat
160 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2010 : 23:12:28
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quote:
Originally posted by beanball
Ok, how about this scenario. Can a player play on two different rosters in the same tournament, like say the Slugfest this weekend? Using a different first name. And lets say he pitches 4 innings on team A Friday night. The he pitches 4 innnings on team B Saturday because team A has no games. Then he comes back and pitches 4 innings on Team A again on Sunday. Not saying its giong to happen but is a possibility.
your joking right?
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bturner
231 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2010 : 09:11:24
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| Here is my question for everyone. Why is it that USSSA is the only one we are talking about? We need a roster that would cover TC, Nations,Ustba and Grand Slam. |
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Question for USSSA and Bubba
