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bmoser
1633 Posts |
 Posted - 01/24/2010 : 22:02:49
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Coaches and parents:
If every player's name on your team is not entered into the USSSA team roster on-line system according to very specific USSSA rules, now is the time to fix it.
USSSA roster rules require that players names match birth certificates first and last names precisely without middle initial and without suffix or prefix, or slang, or shortened names. Read their rules, and make the change if need be.
Failure to do so can cost your team dearly, and your Head Coach can be suspended from USSSA play for 1 year.
Jake instead of Jacob, Bob instead of Robert, Bill instead of William, Mike and not Michael...yep it will cost your team and Coach dearly if you don't fix it NOW.
Please review your on-line roster today, and USSSA's rules, and match the birth certificates to the roster applying those rules.
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baseballpapa
1520 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2010 : 10:46:53
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| BMoser: You know how kingofthehill is always accusing the Bandits of printing their own birth certificates. Should we change the birth certificate to match the roster or the roster to match the birth certificate. Ha Ha. |
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2010 : 15:30:29
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ah, heck, just ask him what age group he'd like for the Bandits to play in on any given week, then go win it.
some folks just can't stand to see another team be wildly successful and enjoy watching them, and try to learn from them.
quote:
Originally posted by baseballpapa
BMoser: You know how kingofthehill is always accusing the Bandits of printing their own birth certificates. Should we change the birth certificate to match the roster or the roster to match the birth certificate. Ha Ha.
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jaguars18
245 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2010 : 12:38:04
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i think your overeacting a little bit..first of all have you ever had your birth certificates checked at a tournament? I have once and that was 3 years ago. Maybe in a world series etc but i am guessing if you put jake instead of jacob by mistake you wont be suspended forfieted or otherwise. NO director is going to cut his pocket book on the local level.
I am surprised they dont have to have pictures, how can you even prove the kid is who he says he is? I would worry more about that than a mis spelled name |
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2010 : 16:16:31
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You are correct at a typical qualifier, but at a NIT, S-NIT, Sub-States, States, and World Series, it gets more serious.
Yes, I've seen teams forfeit for roster violations by having their book reviewed. The score gets recorded as 6-0. Some totally legit games really do end 6-0, but a few of the 6-0 results you see on usssa's web site are forfeit's with some of these due to roster issues.
Since these 6-0 scores do not have a FORTFEIT notation accompanying them, folks can't see that these situations really do occur.
It's a very sad situation when it happens, because the game isn't completed, which impacts both teams, and if its a bracket game, the violator is sent packing. It ripped my heart out to see that happen.
I'm doing my best to avoid having to go through that ever again, while at the same time protecting our boys.
When you buy-in to an organizations program, and its rules, you expect them to be followed. The more a team has invested in a particular org, the more closely you watch.
If your an occasional usssa participant playing in one of these higher stakes games versus a team that plays a heavy usssa schedule, please dot your I's and cross your T's.
Is the tourney director going to support his regular customer, or a team who plays his org 1 or 2 times?
quote:
Originally posted by jaguars18
i think your overeacting a little bit..first of all have you ever had your birth certificates checked at a tournament? I have once and that was 3 years ago. Maybe in a world series etc but i am guessing if you put jake instead of jacob by mistake you wont be suspended forfieted or otherwise. NO director is going to cut his pocket book on the local level.
I am surprised they dont have to have pictures, how can you even prove the kid is who he says he is? I would worry more about that than a mis spelled name
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Edited by - bmoser on 01/26/2010 22:00:55 |
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PS Iron Pigs
129 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2010 : 16:25:56
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| I hate seeing rules that are so "specific" as having the name spelled correctly with no nicknames, but these rules wouldn't exist if so many so called "coaches" didn't abuse the rules and try playing with illegal players. You'd have to assume that if there is a rule, someone has abused the intent, thus the specific needs. |
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mtrebuchon
5 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2010 : 21:45:56
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| The intent of the USSSA Rule 3.03 is not to "catch" someone misspelling a name but rather to try and stop cheaters. Ninety-Nine Percent (99%) of all illegal players appear on some other team's Official Roster as a legal player. When a team qualifies (becomes frozen) every player on the roster is bound to that team through the end of the season (unless released pursuant to USSSA Rules). How do teams get around this rule (cheat), they change the spelling of the player’s name…thus the creation of Rules 3.03, 3.06.F, 3.06.F.1, 3.06.F.2 & 3.06.F.3. If team managers don’t spell the names as they appear on the Birth Certificates in the beginning, how is anyone expected to enforce the rules on the cheaters? I don’t think it’s asking too much to have a team manager review his roster and Birth Certificates in January for accuracy. It’s kind of like “spring cleaning”! I completely fail to see what the comment about, “NO director is going to cut his pocket book on the local level.” means or has to do with enforcing the rules. By the way, the above mentioned rules have been in place for three (3) years. |
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Titan1
210 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2010 : 23:28:38
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| So MAtt, to make sure I understand you. At any USSSA tournament if the players name is misspelled or if the player does not have his first name listed on the roster then it is grounds for disqualification if the player has either come to bat once or played in the field for an inning, is this correct? |
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jaguars18
245 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2010 : 07:54:42
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| what it means is if a loyal ussssa team accidently spells a kids name wrong is a director going to punish them and push them away from playing usssa? I think not, Moser has scene teams forfeit and so have i due to using illegal or frozen players but not because i spelled jeromee , jerome at a tournament. Its about the money and the golden rule..he who has the gold rules!! I will agree your major nit and super nit is a different arena. I would also think common sense takes precident, if a kid is not frozen and not a threat i bet if i am playing in some 8 team tourney somewhere no one will care much less check the spelling on all of my paperwork. Having said that i will make sure mine is correct but if you beat me and have a spelling error, then so be it. You win the game. |
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whits23
596 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2010 : 14:20:15
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| At least i am not coaching a european girls tennis team as i could never enter those names. Although i think it would have some perks |
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gausssa
209 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2010 : 15:40:02
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Don't play the "regular guy" card with me.Following roster rules are for "everybody" regardless of how many USSSA events your playing, "pocket book or not". For that matter, a team that plays more USSSA events should know the rules better than the guy who doesn't and looks more like a "cheater" in some people's eye's than the guy who plays less USSSA."less is still no excuss" Any smart coach will always have berth cert. with him at all times even if he's never ask for them. You better be able to prove that kid is who you say he is if protested. A good director will always use some common sence in trying to determind if a kid is who they say he is. As far as having picture's, USSSA will never do it due to privacy and the kids being minors.
Guys, just be pro-active and police your rosters good before the season starts and you will never have to deal with it. |
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2010 : 19:38:17
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gausssa:
glad to hear that about the "regular guys" not getting any special treatment from you. Now, if we can get all the tourney directors on board with you, we'll all be better off. I trust they'll sense the direction you are taking things and follow suit.
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Titan1
210 Posts |
Posted - 01/27/2010 : 22:39:32
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Bubba,
Please answer my question that I directed to MAtt.
Thanks
So MAtt, to make sure I understand you. At any USSSA tournament if the players name is misspelled or if the player does not have his first name listed on the roster then it is grounds for disqualification if the player has either come to bat once or played in the field for an inning, is this correct? |
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momof2
7 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2010 : 08:35:28
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| My personal pet peeve is being handed a line up card that only has first names or nicknames. Com'on coaches...who are you trying kid? |
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PS Iron Pigs
129 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2010 : 09:53:13
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quote:
Originally posted by momof2
My personal pet peeve is being handed a line up card that only has first names or nicknames. Com'on coaches...who are you trying kid?
Good Point! What do you coaches out there do if this occurs? Do you ask them for the last names as well and not except it? How would you even be able to match it up to their online roster? |
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ny61
2 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2010 : 10:41:17
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| What if you have went out for several diff. teams and made most of them but picked one to play on never telling the other teams you were going to play with them and you notice your name is listed on 2-3 diff.roster's and isnt spelled correct on any of them but the team you filled out paperwork on ? is that something the coach can handle very easy ? we have called the teams to ask to be removed from there roster and as of yet we havent been ? |
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mtrebuchon
5 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2010 : 13:10:27
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Titan1...
As Bubba answered for me, we expect ALL our Tournament Director to apply common sense to the application of the rule. All we are asking are for Team Managers to get it right in the beginning so when the issue does arise later in the season (after teams begin to freeze), we will be able to enforce the rule as written and stop the cheating. |
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allsecol
11 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2010 : 15:30:13
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| I think the problem lies with enforcement at the state directors level. The rule is black and white and even in in his last post the state director says "As Bubba answered for me, we expect ALL our Tournament Director to apply common sense to the application of the rule." Rules are not to applied, rules are to be enforced. Leaving "wiggle room" or "gray areas" always sets up for someone to get the wrong end of the stick. As we all know not all Directors are blessed with common sense. What may seem right or just to one may not seem that way to another. I think we all just want the same treatment and ENFORCEMENT of the rules. |
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Titan1
210 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2010 : 20:35:18
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quote:
Originally posted by allsecol
I think the problem lies with enforcement at the state directors level. The rule is black and white and even in in his last post the state director says "As Bubba answered for me, we expect ALL our Tournament Director to apply common sense to the application of the rule." Rules are not to applied, rules are to be enforced. Leaving "wiggle room" or "gray areas" always sets up for someone to get the wrong end of the stick. As we all know not all Directors are blessed with common sense. What may seem right or just to one may not seem that way to another. I think we all just want the same treatment and ENFORCEMENT of the rules.
I agree if it is a rule then enforce it. If the name is misspelled that that would be against the rules then enforce it. Same goes for not having the first name correct whether they are using a middle name or a nick name. |
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whits23
596 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2010 : 20:51:19
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be realistic, most coaches dont cheat, you can volunteer to be the enforcement police and travel to all sites. If anyone thinks a director can look at each birth certificate and match it to each roster with 20-100 teams at a tournament your crazy. I have seen where once one team is done they are good for the season and dont have to have it re-done. I applaud bubba for trying and also for even approaching all the "what if" questions.
IF you get caught speeding 3 miles over the speed limit do you want strict enforcement? GEEZ the directors are trying and most of the complainers will never even have this come into play. Maybe DNA testing will be next |
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gausssa
209 Posts |
Posted - 01/28/2010 : 22:16:47
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Guys, this topic is being blown up and could go on for days. This will be my final post on this matter as i will repeat what has already been stated. This roster rule is not to penalize people who make honest mistake's. It's to penalize people that are cheating. As i stated before, just be pro-active and police your rosters good before the season starts and you will never have to deal with it.
If you are ever in a game and fill like the team has a illegal player on there roster then protest. If a coach can produce a birth cert and prove the kid is who he says he is and that kid is not frozen to another teams roster under his legal name you will lose your 100.00 dollars. If he can't prove it or the kid is frozen to another teams roster under his legal name, you will win the protest. Directors at all levels and tournaments will use common sence in making that decision and no team will get a cheap win by someone's honest mistake. Teams that are cheating want have "wiggle room or gray areas. Appling and inforcing rules also involves judgement of a director. Coach's that want judgement and common sence thrown out and everything is black and white are looking for cheap wins.
Again,,, if all coach's will clean up/police ther own rosters before they ever play a tournament, you will never have to deal with this nor will no one will ever get a cheap win on you... |
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bmoser
1633 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2010 : 17:06:44
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ny61
When my sons usssa history wasn't accurate, I e-mailed the State Director and they fixed it w/in a few days. Ours was just a prior coach not entering his entire given name, but instead just used his nick name, so not sure if you'd get the same results...worth a try. At the time, I didn't know about all thee rules, but when I found out I jumped on it right away.
quote:
Originally posted by ny61
What if you have went out for several diff. teams and made most of them but picked one to play on never telling the other teams you were going to play with them and you notice your name is listed on 2-3 diff.roster's and isnt spelled correct on any of them but the team you filled out paperwork on ? is that something the coach can handle very easy ? we have called the teams to ask to be removed from there roster and as of yet we havent been ?
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Alter-Ego
802 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2010 : 09:25:17
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ny61,
If it is anything but the last name, your current coach can correct it. He has access to those fields. If the last name is spelled incorrectly, you will need to reach out to USSSA support to correct it. |
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jaguars18
245 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2010 : 15:17:54
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or just create a new player and make other inactive
quote:
Originally posted by Alter-Ego
ny61,
If it is anything but the last name, your current coach can correct it. He has access to those fields. If the last name is spelled incorrectly, you will need to reach out to USSSA support to correct it.
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Alter-Ego
802 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2010 : 21:15:37
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Jaguar,
That is where all the mess starts. When coaches just create a new user instead of doing the right thing and fixing the existing one. If you create a new one, you lose all the roster history. Contrary to popular belief, the kids like to see the history of the teams they played on. |
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jaguars18
245 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2010 : 22:28:58
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As a coach you can not correct certain mistakes and according to directors they can not either. the system does not allow you to completly delete a player and you can not correct spelling or birthdates if put in wrong.
quote:
Originally posted by Alter-Ego
Jaguar,
That is where all the mess starts. When coaches just create a new user instead of doing the right thing and fixing the existing one. If you create a new one, you lose all the roster history. Contrary to popular belief, the kids like to see the history of the teams they played on.
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Topic |
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BEWARE: USSSA roster rules
