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teddy41
421 Posts |
 Posted - 06/08/2017 : 19:29:26
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Sue tournament directors for not putting you on good fields
Sue High School coach for not being a good coach
Sue travel coach for not making your son great
Sue ump for making bad calls
Lets just sue everyone who does not give us satisfaction |
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Crazyforbball
391 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2017 : 19:48:15
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| I wouldn't pull a kid mid inning from the field 12U and under for anything other than blatant lack of effort or serious attitude, because they shouldn't be there in the first place unless they earned the spot. However, if they were just "off" and it was a do or die situation for the team going forward with a good kid there, MAYBE but with a clear explanation to the player why afterwards. |
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Renegade44
211 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2017 : 21:05:02
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Its June, you know what happens in June? It gets real hot. It is also the time of the year that you get not so gently nudged off the team so it can bring in players for tryouts.
There are 50% too many kids playing travel ball, and 50% too many teams. Its great they want to play. Its also a waste of a high level coaches time. Thus its become exactly what it is. A job, if you can pay, there is a team for you!
And newsflash that goes for showcase as well. If your check can clear the bank and you have a pulse.......there is a showcase team for you. It may be the F-Orange team level at the academy. But by goodness you are now playing showcase! |
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9Y3Dogs
12 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2017 : 23:46:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Renegade44
There are 50% too many kids playing travel ball, and 50% too many teams. Its great they want to play. Its also a waste of a high level coaches time.
Most of the so-called "high level coaches" are great at poaching, not coaching. Put them in charge of a group of kids with varying skill levels, the dreaded rec-league kids, and see what great "coaches" they are. Get over yourself.
Of course, many of the so-called "high level coaches" that seem to populate this board wouldn't waste his/her time with a kid or kids that can't feed that coach's delusion of what a great teacher of the game he/she is. Parents aren't the only one's that are wearing rose-tinted glasses.
In most cases the old saying is true - you win with Jimmy's and Joe's, not X's and O's, especially at the youth level. Great players can make any coach look great.
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oneZone
117 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2017 : 07:42:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Crazyforbball
I wouldn't pull a kid mid inning from the field 12U and under for anything other than blatant lack of effort or serious attitude, because they shouldn't be there in the first place unless they earned the spot. However, if they were just "off" and it was a do or die situation for the team going forward with a good kid there, MAYBE but with a clear explanation to the player why afterwards.
Exactly right!
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2017 : 08:00:08
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quote:
Originally posted by teddy41
Sue tournament directors for not putting you on good fields
Sue High School coach for not being a good coach
Sue travel coach for not making your son great
Sue ump for making bad calls
Lets just sue everyone who does not give us satisfaction
How about we just sue people who act in an immoral way?
-The high school coach probably doesn't know he's a bad coach.
-The travel coach can only work with what he's got, and if the kid won't work not much the coach can do.
-Ump is making calls to the best of his knowledge and ability...in RARE circumstances that knowledge and ability can be questionable, but overall they aren't trying to make the wrong call.
Not refunding tourney fees for a kid who got injured or decided early on the team wasn't for him...that's on purpose. |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2017 : 11:58:20
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quote:
Originally posted by jbarley
Make all parents sign a contract that says what rules are and no refunds. If you quit a team you quit not the coach. Anything to stir the pot and get a response i suppose but good luck every suing for a refund that is more just parents being babies cause little johnny didnt play. Now if a coach folds the team and walks off with money or collects for cooperstown and back out that is different but you want to sign a contract and walk or even walk its time to grow up cupcakes you left not the coach
No parent in their right mind would would sign a no refund contract for their kid to play on a team. Why not refund the parents if the kid is no longer on the team? Legal logic says you have to, no matter what your self logic says. Playing with peoples money is a dangerous game. I've personally seen things get violent very quick because of it. Tread lightly. |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2017 : 12:04:22
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quote:
Originally posted by teddy41
Sue tournament directors for not putting you on good fields
Sue High School coach for not being a good coach
Sue travel coach for not making your son great
Sue ump for making bad calls
Lets just sue everyone who does not give us satisfaction
Isn't that the American Way??? |
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bkball
173 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2017 : 12:07:27
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| I got to say, I think every situation is different. A good coach will not pull a player for making a physical error. Coaching from the dugout for ground balls is as funny as coaching a batter during his at bat. That should have been done in practice not during a game. Now the mental stuff if a player can't correct that during innings, example not backing up, not being in the right place, not hitting cutoffs, loafing, the fundamentals then I say pull them. Have them sit right there with you and explain the issue and situation. It is funny parents that team hop are bad but coaches that team hop or or organization hop or recruit are just good guys. I never thought I would say it but if you pay to play baseball then you should play. If your team is competitive but not a world beater then everyone should sit and almost equal amounts if possible. If you are on one of the top ten teams in your state then you better expect to sit. Those teams are the teams trying to win and I understand that but these teams that are AAA or playing in a Silver or Bronze bracket and have no chance of winning a tournament they should sit everyone equal amounts. If you picked a kid that can't play at that level as a coach that is on you, Parents can be a pain but if a coach and put together a team and play everyone equally I do not think parents would complain. All this should be discussed pre season. As far as HS coaches go there are some good ones and some bad ones you get what you get. You are not entitled to any playing time it should be earned at practice and on the field not by a check or volunteering for something. |
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743
215 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2017 : 12:13:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Renegade44
Took a player off the field this weekend mid inning. He quit afterwards, good riddance.
Had he hustled he would have still been on the field. Had he chose to perform the team fundamental required of his position he would still be on the field. Had he not repeated the poorly performed team fundamental after the coach corrected him the 5th time he would still be on the field. Had he chose to hustle he would still be on the field.
Since when did travel ball turn into a baby sitting service? You perform or you sit. I'm sick and tired of players thinking they are entitled to playing time just because their check clears the bank.
I have a new policy. Once the check clears, if you want to waste your parents money, so be it........but I don't and from now on won't play you while your actions continue to hurt the team.
So the removed player now has a choice. Get in line, or get gone. No refunds.
Just curious Renegade what was the poorly performed team fundamental the coach corrected him on on the 5th time.
Had he not repeated the poorly performed team fundamental after the coach corrected him the 5th time he would still be on the field. |
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tellit
97 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2017 : 12:17:39
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quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
quote:
Originally posted by teddy41
Sue tournament directors for not putting you on good fields
Sue High School coach for not being a good coach
Sue travel coach for not making your son great
Sue ump for making bad calls
Lets just sue everyone who does not give us satisfaction
How about we just sue people who act in an immoral way?
-The high school coach probably doesn't know he's a bad coach.
-The travel coach can only work with what he's got, and if the kid won't work not much the coach can do.
-Ump is making calls to the best of his knowledge and ability...in RARE circumstances that knowledge and ability can be questionable, but overall they aren't trying to make the wrong call.
Not refunding tourney fees for a kid who got injured or decided early on the team wasn't for him...that's on purpose.
If you go to Six Flags and buy a ticket and only ride one ride then decide you do not like waiting in line, you will not be given your money back. Sometimes you have to play the hand you are dealt. Bringing in a lawyer after you quit the team is a joke. If you had any doubts about the team you should not have stroked that check. You did not do you due diligence when choosing a team.
Bringing in lawyers will just increase the cost of baseball for all. |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2017 : 12:20:28
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quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
quote:
Originally posted by teddy41
Sue tournament directors for not putting you on good fields
Sue High School coach for not being a good coach
Sue travel coach for not making your son great
Sue ump for making bad calls
Lets just sue everyone who does not give us satisfaction
How about we just sue people who act in an immoral way?
-The high school coach probably doesn't know he's a bad coach.
-The travel coach can only work with what he's got, and if the kid won't work not much the coach can do.
-Ump is making calls to the best of his knowledge and ability...in RARE circumstances that knowledge and ability can be questionable, but overall they aren't trying to make the wrong call.
Not refunding tourney fees for a kid who got injured or decided early on the team wasn't for him...that's on purpose.
Funny how people act right when they are served with a court notice of a suit. |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2017 : 13:18:27
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quote:
Originally posted by tellit
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
quote:
Originally posted by teddy41
Sue tournament directors for not putting you on good fields
Sue High School coach for not being a good coach
Sue travel coach for not making your son great
Sue ump for making bad calls
Lets just sue everyone who does not give us satisfaction
How about we just sue people who act in an immoral way?
-The high school coach probably doesn't know he's a bad coach.
-The travel coach can only work with what he's got, and if the kid won't work not much the coach can do.
-Ump is making calls to the best of his knowledge and ability...in RARE circumstances that knowledge and ability can be questionable, but overall they aren't trying to make the wrong call.
Not refunding tourney fees for a kid who got injured or decided early on the team wasn't for him...that's on purpose.
If you go to Six Flags and buy a ticket and only ride one ride then decide you do not like waiting in line, you will not be given your money back. Sometimes you have to play the hand you are dealt. Bringing in a lawyer after you quit the team is a joke. If you had any doubts about the team you should not have stroked that check. You did not do you due diligence when choosing a team.
Bringing in lawyers will just increase the cost of baseball for all.
There are situations where the coach just flips the script. Things aren't like they were or how they said they would be. I'm not talking about your kid plays 25% instead of 50%, I'm talking about HUGE changes like 5+ more kids on the team than the coach said there would be...or all the coaching staff you were so excited to have your kid train with goes poof! We are going to play in all the XX tourneys...and what happened was not even half of those tourneys.
If my kid doesn't hold up to his end of the bargain, ability, effort, training, listening...etc., I expect him not to play.
If the coach doesn't hold up to his end of the bargain, lies after lies, I expect my money back. |
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Renegade44
211 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2017 : 13:53:57
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13u
1.)Standing in LF inning 2 with legs crossed, glove behind back, Never moved a step in 10 pitches. He did not start inning 1. (Discussed at length during year reasons why)
2.)Missed sac bunt sign pitch 1, took strike 2 on a sac bunt after offensive timeout to discuss, fouled off sac bunt with 2 strikes for an Out. Mouthed back that it was my fault he struck out, Coach did that on purpose. Sat innining 3
3.)Standing in LF inning 4, legs crossed, glove behind back.
4.)Failed to cover 3B on an overly extended rundown play. Runner safe. After I got his attention to move he was late to the bag. (Note multiple issues here I know with team) Inning 4
5.)Failed within the next 3 pitch time frame to back up a catcher backpick at 3B. Never moved, legs crossed, glove behind back.
Immediate removal at his point.
Violated things we have previously covered at practice multiple times. Specifically we went over outfield backups at the 3 previous practices. He attended 1.
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2017 : 14:21:48
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quote:
Originally posted by tellit
quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
quote:
Originally posted by teddy41
Sue tournament directors for not putting you on good fields
Sue High School coach for not being a good coach
Sue travel coach for not making your son great
Sue ump for making bad calls
Lets just sue everyone who does not give us satisfaction
How about we just sue people who act in an immoral way?
-The high school coach probably doesn't know he's a bad coach.
-The travel coach can only work with what he's got, and if the kid won't work not much the coach can do.
-Ump is making calls to the best of his knowledge and ability...in RARE circumstances that knowledge and ability can be questionable, but overall they aren't trying to make the wrong call.
Not refunding tourney fees for a kid who got injured or decided early on the team wasn't for him...that's on purpose.
If you go to Six Flags and buy a ticket and only ride one ride then decide you do not like waiting in line, you will not be given your money back. Sometimes you have to play the hand you are dealt. Bringing in a lawyer after you quit the team is a joke. If you had any doubts about the team you should not have stroked that check. You did not do you due diligence when choosing a team.
Bringing in lawyers will just increase the cost of baseball for all.
Backpeddeling I see. How will lawyers increase the cost? No lawyer needed for small claim court. This is simple. All these cons need to put in front of judges to let them decide. There is no no-refund contract and no parent is going to sign one either. If there was, my kids need to get paid for playing, not me paying you for him to play. There are tons of cons and bullys in the youth sport world enough. They know and usually pick who they can get over on.
I went thru this with my older son playing football. Paid for one team but he wanted to play for another. Never suited up for the 1st team. Coach ignored my calls and emails for a refund until I caught him in a Wal-Mart parking lot. A lot of people do not like confrontation even though they will try to loud talk you to back you down. Treat everyone the same way you want to be treated and you will have less issues. |
Edited by - Punishers on 06/09/2017 15:01:54 |
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jbarley
75 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2017 : 14:22:02
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| serve all you want means nothing on a stupid my coach didnt play me enough suit.. |
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743
215 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2017 : 14:41:15
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quote:
If you go to Six Flags and buy a ticket and only ride one ride then decide you do not like waiting in line, you will not be given your money back. Sometimes you have to play the hand you are dealt. Bringing in a lawyer after you quit the team is a joke. If you had any doubts about the team you should not have stroked that check. You did not do you due diligence when choosing a team.
Bringing in lawyers will just increase the cost of baseball for all.
No but if I paid to go to Six Flags and none of the rides are working do to mechanical error or not allowed to ride because the operator keeps moving me to the back of the line, I am sure I will my money back. |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2017 : 15:04:51
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quote:
Originally posted by jbarley
serve all you want means nothing on a stupid my coach didnt play me enough suit..
You don't get it. It's not that the kid didn't play enough. The kid left the team and so should his money. Why would he foot the bill for another kid. |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2017 : 15:05:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Renegade44
13u
1.)Standing in LF inning 2 with legs crossed, glove behind back, Never moved a step in 10 pitches. He did not start inning 1. (Discussed at length during year reasons why)
2.)Missed sac bunt sign pitch 1, took strike 2 on a sac bunt after offensive timeout to discuss, fouled off sac bunt with 2 strikes for an Out. Mouthed back that it was my fault he struck out, Coach did that on purpose. Sat innining 3
3.)Standing in LF inning 4, legs crossed, glove behind back.
4.)Failed to cover 3B on an overly extended rundown play. Runner safe. After I got his attention to move he was late to the bag. (Note multiple issues here I know with team) Inning 4
5.)Failed within the next 3 pitch time frame to back up a catcher backpick at 3B. Never moved, legs crossed, glove behind back.
Immediate removal at his point.
Violated things we have previously covered at practice multiple times. Specifically we went over outfield backups at the 3 previous practices. He attended 1.
I see what happened. The kid was true to form throughout the entire game, but the coach didn't sit him. Instead the coach let him go...and go...and go...and go...until the coach finally blew his top after being pushed WAY too far.
Had he sat the kid after inning 2 and said "We've had this conversation before, one ball hit, 9 people move, you didn't move and you weren't ready to move. We will try again another time."...then the coach wouldn't have had to blow his top. |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2017 : 16:06:28
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| For all of you who think it is ok for the coach to keep money for a kid no longer on the team, you should not have any problem with mid-season cuts. Coach can cut the whole team and keep the money. |
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Bravemom
204 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2017 : 17:16:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Renegade44
13u
1.)Standing in LF inning 2 with legs crossed, glove behind back, Never moved a step in 10 pitches. He did not start inning 1. (Discussed at length during year reasons why)
2.)Missed sac bunt sign pitch 1, took strike 2 on a sac bunt after offensive timeout to discuss, fouled off sac bunt with 2 strikes for an Out. Mouthed back that it was my fault he struck out, Coach did that on purpose. Sat innining 3
3.)Standing in LF inning 4, legs crossed, glove behind back.
4.)Failed to cover 3B on an overly extended rundown play. Runner safe. After I got his attention to move he was late to the bag. (Note multiple issues here I know with team) Inning 4
5.)Failed within the next 3 pitch time frame to back up a catcher backpick at 3B. Never moved, legs crossed, glove behind back.
Immediate removal at his point.
Violated things we have previously covered at practice multiple times. Specifically we went over outfield backups at the 3 previous practices. He attended 1.
That is what I figured..,a kid with a chronic problem that was yanked because the coach got angry and lost his cool. |
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Renegade44
211 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2017 : 19:20:33
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LOL
You guys are funny.
1.) Easy small claims suit to defend. Tournaments are prepaid, payment was a participation fee and facility fee and coach fee. Nothing left. Or alternatively player leaving caused team hardship and until they funds were replaced the team could not complete its season. Was not cut, playing time at coach discretion, whether they show up to sit bench is their choice. (Moral? Never ever pay in advance. Always set up a payment plan. Once the big check cashes all bets are off)
2.) Great idea. I usually try to go with the 3 strikes you are out for the day rule. But I now feel more empowered to deal with problem players after this advice. And I promise it will be far less frustrating to me so I won't lose my cool. New Policy: When I see a similar situation coming while observing warmups, I'll bat 9, and sub said player in to pinch run around the last inning. That way the player will be so much more happy than being removed mid inning from the field after those misguided repeated chances to improve attitude/effort. And since I know what's coming again for game 2 I'll just do the same again. I am so glad this will make everyone happy. Image if I only knew before today!
Cookies and Cream for everyone in 15 minutes!!!! |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2017 : 00:31:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Renegade44
LOL
You guys are funny.
1.) Easy small claims suit to defend. Tournaments are prepaid, payment was a participation fee and facility fee and coach fee. Nothing left. Or alternatively player leaving caused team hardship and until they funds were replaced the team could not complete its season. Was not cut, playing time at coach discretion, whether they show up to sit bench is their choice. (Moral? Never ever pay in advance. Always set up a payment plan. Once the big check cashes all bets are off)
2.) Great idea. I usually try to go with the 3 strikes you are out for the day rule. But I now feel more empowered to deal with problem players after this advice. And I promise it will be far less frustrating to me so I won't lose my cool. New Policy: When I see a similar situation coming while observing warmups, I'll bat 9, and sub said player in to pinch run around the last inning. That way the player will be so much more happy than being removed mid inning from the field after those misguided repeated chances to improve attitude/effort. And since I know what's coming again for game 2 I'll just do the same again. I am so glad this will make everyone happy. Image if I only knew before today!
Cookies and Cream for everyone in 15 minutes!!!!
Haven't seen a parent that lost a case when they left a team yet. No matter if it's prepaid. Heard that argument in court before, Judge said so what, the kid is no longer available to participate in those tournaments and therefore should be reimbursed the difference. It's like paying for services not rendered. No hardship when other players are added. All bets are never off. Like these guys running roofing scams. Garnishments and Liens are easy. Never and I mean NEVER pay the full amount. No way to keep them honest if you do. Have yet to see a team that prepaid for ALL tournaments for an upcoming season.
Unlike these buckwads, when I coached my teams and a player left, I always gave parents back their difference. Just a situation where things didn't workout or a kid was injured and done for the season. Usually 2-4 tournaments were paid in advanced, not for the entire season. To me it's just the right thing to do. Takes too much effort to bs people. |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2017 : 01:17:51
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Back to the main topic:
I'm big on performing, knowing that kids have good and bad days like all adults do. If a player is not performing one game, it's just not his day. Doesn't mean he should not get any burn (playing time) in the next or future games. If that kid is a major liability (no effort), that's when I have to talk to the parents and remind them of the expectations of the players. There were some who were not on par with other players and needed extra attention or even needed to play on a lower level team. Luckily, that was a rare occasion. |
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Crazyforbball
391 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2017 : 11:54:36
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quote:
Originally posted by bkball
I got to say, I think every situation is different. A good coach will not pull a player for making a physical error. Coaching from the dugout for ground balls is as funny as coaching a batter during his at bat. That should have been done in practice not during a game. Now the mental stuff if a player can't correct that during innings, example not backing up, not being in the right place, not hitting cutoffs, loafing, the fundamentals then I say pull them. Have them sit right there with you and explain the issue and situation. It is funny parents that team hop are bad but coaches that team hop or or organization hop or recruit are just good guys. I never thought I would say it but if you pay to play baseball then you should play. If your team is competitive but not a world beater then everyone should sit and almost equal amounts if possible. If you are on one of the top ten teams in your state then you better expect to sit. Those teams are the teams trying to win and I understand that but these teams that are AAA or playing in a Silver or Bronze bracket and have no chance of winning a tournament they should sit everyone equal amounts. If you picked a kid that can't play at that level as a coach that is on you, Parents can be a pain but if a coach and put together a team and play everyone equally I do not think parents would complain. All this should be discussed pre season. As far as HS coaches go there are some good ones and some bad ones you get what you get. You are not entitled to any playing time it should be earned at practice and on the field not by a check or volunteering for something.
I couldn't agree more. |
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Pulling field players
