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Critical Mass
277 Posts |
 Posted - 05/02/2017 : 09:08:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Coach Cole
Conclusion: Grades, injuries, competition, jobs, other distractions can impact playing or playing time as kids transition from HS to college. So choose wisely and keep your expectations reasonable. If you are a 17-18U player looking for a D2 school that is losing 7 college senior starters (better chance of playing!), email me at colejp@comcast.net.
Well said, mine experienced grades, injuries, distractions and got 30 innings playing hurt in D1. He saw his buddy quit this year before the sophomore season after fall evaluations..he didn't toe the rubber one time all freshman year (redshirt) and had come from THE most prestigious travel program in Atlanta. It's real and it's tough, get ready to work and have alot of luck on your side. Parents, you will have ZERO say in what goes on at the college level. |
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bama21
278 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2017 : 11:50:32
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I hope everyone, I'm sure they do, realizes as your son gets older, you will have less and less say about decisions related to baseball.
The point I was trying to make is that you can't take what a coach tells you as the "gospel", that is his opinion. Also, while I'm sure some kids do change HS's for various reasons, there are way more college players that do it, so how do you explain that. I would bet that every college roster will have at least one transfer on it. |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2017 : 08:03:54
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quote:
Originally posted by bama21
I hope everyone, I'm sure they do, realizes as your son gets older, you will have less and less say about decisions related to baseball.
The point I was trying to make is that you can't take what a coach tells you as the "gospel", that is his opinion. Also, while I'm sure some kids do change HS's for various reasons, there are way more college players that do it, so how do you explain that. I would bet that every college roster will have at least one transfer on it.
Of course the college kids transfer. There are Juco kids, i.e. the kids. that for a variety of reasons, went to a junior college first. Then there is the kid who went to a school where they didn't get to play, again for a variety of reasons, and they want to transfer so they can play.
I think that is a FAR different scenario than a high school kid not going to the school his parents house is zoned for. The college scenario are legal adults making their own decisions, the high school scenario are parents making that decision.
Apples and oranges people. |
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bama21
278 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2017 : 12:00:23
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You are missing the whole premise of what prompted my initial response. This statement was made...."HA yea 15 u is when HS coaches break the news your career is over" .
Again, the point is, you shouldn't be taking everything a coach tells you about your talent as that's the end of the story, that is one person's opinion. My reference to college players was to emphasize that kids still transfer, even in college, and from my perspective it is no different than HS, except the college coach is probably better qualified to judge talent over a HS coach. I guarantee the parents are still involved in these decisions to transfer whether it be college(4 yr. programs) or HS. |
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bama21
278 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2017 : 12:10:20
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| Also, do you really believe that the college kids that transfer make that decision on their own? The parents are still footing most of the bill as college baseball scholarships are crappy at best. NOT HAPPENING. |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 05/04/2017 : 07:59:20
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| Crappy is not the word for it. May get 25% at best if you are not a potential 1st round draft pick. What they do not tell you is that you are fixed for 3 years before entering the draft. Unlike basketball and football. You would think they would give more than 25% since players are being locked in for 3 years. |
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jaguars18
245 Posts |
Posted - 05/04/2017 : 09:42:13
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| Most HS coaches are coaching because pay is better than small or some big colleges. A teacher salary is more than assistant coach in college. Not always better college coaching |
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Diamond_dad
16 Posts |
Posted - 05/04/2017 : 10:39:45
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quote:
Originally posted by jaguars18
Most HS coaches are coaching because pay is better than small or some big colleges. A teacher salary is more than assistant coach in college. Not always better college coaching
That's why a lot of colleges have showcases...to supplement the income of the assistant coaches. Some are actually looking for players and some just want to get paid. My two boys ended up with college scholarships because their travel coach set up private workouts for schools. |
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bama21
278 Posts |
Posted - 05/04/2017 : 10:57:39
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It's not about salaries or coaching for that matter, it's about evaluating talent. There is no magic formula, but a college coaching staff will be evaluating thousands of prospects annually, a HS coach 50 to 75. I would argue that gives the college coaches a better understanding of judging talent, generally speaking. Like I said previously, judging talent is not easy and I am by no means putting down HS coaches, but also don't put to much weight in their opinions.
Also, I would like to know the percentages of HS coaches that actually played past HS, versus that of college coaches. While that percentage, whatever it is, certainly doesn't make you a great evaluator of talent, it could impact greatly your knowledge of the game and what it takes to play at the next level. |
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dgersh22
169 Posts |
Posted - 05/04/2017 : 13:31:20
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Don't know how this topic got from what coach Cole was showing was how hard it is to transition into college baseball for the student athlete from HS and how maybe some players with multiple offers when choosing a school to try and play at don't look at rosters and what possibly are their chances of playing as a freshmen, to bashing HS coaches for what some call their show of favoritism, lack of knowing talent and not having a baseball resume.
In regards to what Coach Cole mentioned about college baseball and having a son that plays DII and having coached a local team that had 15 players move on to the next level. I agree with much of what he said. It is hard for a player to go straight from HS to College and play especially at the higher levels. Many of the players who where upper echelon players on their respective teams find out that they are one of 50 now on their new team and many of the players have the same skill set. Many struggle with grades, injuries, burnout, coaching conflicts, personal problems,plus the many extra curricular activities that go on at College campuses that make them leave the game. Baseball is a part time job in the fall and pretty much a full time job in the spring with all of the travel plus the workload of school.
Many players also don't take a look at rosters and stats of teams when they have multiple offers to play at colleges they take the word of the coach that they will get an opportunity to compete for a spot on the field. Many times a coach will recruit a player looking into the future knowing he needs to fill a position in 2-3 years. Also he will recruit multiple players for the same position because he knows their is possibility that a player will quit or become ineligible or possibly if talented enough move to another position. This is what leads to the players transferring. My son got pretty lucky as a freshman, with the offers he had from DII & DIII schools he looked at rosters and asked the correct questions and also knowing what he liked and disliked about each school he was able to chose a place that he likes and also earned the ability to play. Granted he played 7 positions, and only made a handful of starts in his true position, he was still able to start over 35 games and finished with a great offensive year. Next year the coach has told him he will be moving him from the IF to the OF because of need but to make sure he continues to take a bunch of ground balls in the summer.
On to the HS coaching bashing. I agree that there may be some coaches out there that play favoritism but in my opinion it is few and far between. Having coached baseball and having a successful HS summer team for a smaller program with players from different HS I had the opportunity to interact with many coaches. Most of them have the same goals, and that is what is best for their program, to win, and ultimately they have the best intentions for all of their players. They fundraise because they have to, they charge dues because they have to. Most of them could care less about the concession stand, the diamond dolls, and other activities that take away from their ability to coach.
My wife and I were one of those parents that were heavily involved with my sons HS baseball program. My wife was in charge of the concession stand my sons junior and senior year, I did the announcing at home games my sons senior year. At no time did we interfere with the coach or any of the efforts of my son to play. My son went thru HS pretty much the traditional way, as a freshman he played on the fresh team, soph-JV, Junior year he was a spot starter on the varsity and brought in for defense, his senior year the coach told him pretty much that his role may be the same thing, but then he went out and earned the spot and didn't leave the field and became 1st team all-region and all-county. I encourage parents if they can to be involved with their sons program just don't interfere with the baseball activities.
In regards to the coaches and their ability to coach and judge talent compared to college coaches. For college coaches judging talent and coaching is their full time job. Coaches at most schools have at least 2-3 assistants plus grad assistants with many of them the same knowledge as the head coach this doesn't happen in HS. College coaches get to pick from the litter, HS coaches sometimes have to make do to fill out their roster. When it comes to coaching, colleges coaches are with their players 20 hours a week in the fall plus one-one training and spend more time with them during the season. They have the ability to teach and work on what needs to be worked on. HS coaches get 2 hours per day during the season on limited field space because of 3 teams, typically no time in the fall because players play more than one sport and then 1 month during the summer if your player decides it is important enough to show up. On top of that coaches have to try and teach each player differently because every player also has their own travel coach, and instructor that may not teach the same way. In college it is the coaches way or the highway.
I looked at the resumes of the HS coaches in my sons region and compared that to the coaches that are currently ranked in the top 10 of the DI rankings. Of the 10 coaches in the DI rankings all 10 of them played college baseball ranging from NAIA to DI, one only played 2 years JUCO, 2 played JUCO before moving on to a 4 year, only 3 of them played in the minors with none of them reaching the majors. The HS coaches in my sons region from what I could find on the bios of 6 teams 5 of the 6 played baseball in college, one of them had no bio but I believe played so that would make all 6. It ranged from D3 to D1, one of them had minor league time. The biggest differences I see between college and HS is that the college coaches have more time to become students of the game, they do baseball full time. They are surrounded by coaches that have the same pedigree, most of the time HS coaches do not.
I know I wrote a book, but to summarize college baseball is hard work for the student-athlete and a HUGE adjustment from HS. I believe that parents sometimes have blinders on when it comes to their sons talent level and like to blame it on the coaches. I know there are exceptions. Regardless let your son go out and play, enjoy himself, instill in him to work hard, most importantly to study and get good grades because college is expensive and they give more in academic scholarships than they do baseball. Only intervene when it is harming them physically or mentally. |
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bama21
278 Posts |
Posted - 05/04/2017 : 19:09:13
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| The long and short of it.........To each his own |
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Crazyforbball
391 Posts |
Posted - 05/04/2017 : 20:16:58
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| Great advice dgersh. |
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mar1dxt
30 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2017 : 11:12:25
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| Great post and great perspective dgersh. At the High School in North Fulton my son plays at you have to fund raise as the school and school system pays for maybe 1/3 of the costs of the program. The coach has to be involved because you have to be raising money well advance of when the rosters for the teams are picked. Our coach is very upfront with parents. He will talk to parents about anything except playing time or playing position. On judging talent, he says the most difficult thing is evaluating the freshman and trying to project who can make the varsity in the future. He tells all the kids at tryouts that you need to have at least something that stands out..i.e. speed, hitting, arm strength, velocity, command of secondary pitches to make the JV team. The typical path is JV as a freshman and sophomore to varsity as a junior with a few kids making the varsity as sophomores. Very few sophomores who play two years on the JV team don't make the varsity as a junior. That said you do sophomores who don't get a lot of playing time on the JV team give up baseball after their sophomore year. |
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bbsis
42 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2017 : 00:28:42
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| Daddy ball is over! Know a daddy ball kid who went to a top D1 school, sat on the bench most of freshman year and is now at a no-name JUCO as a sophomore. |
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What to expect when HS ends and college starts
