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PS Iron Pigs
129 Posts |
 Posted - 12/02/2009 : 22:25:37
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I sent an email to papa about this topic and he mentioned that there has been several discussions about this topic, but I'd like to see if I can get it all under one string.
What's the rundown on each travel ball association and how they compare to one another and how each aline with a teams ultimate goal, whether it be Cooperstown, Disney, etc?
Looking forward to lots of great information from coaches as well as a little input from the organization directors as well. |
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teddy41
421 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2009 : 15:22:21
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| they all want your money and will say and Promise to do what it takes to get it ;} |
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PS Iron Pigs
129 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2009 : 16:18:07
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| I was looking for something with a little more depth. :) |
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Alter-Ego
802 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2009 : 16:56:51
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Baseball Organizations are like Grocery chains. They all provide a service and have employees that are trying to earn a living and support their families. They are not non-profit entities, contrary to popular belief.
Some do a better job than others, but most have some piece they do better than the others.
Unlike retailers, though, there is an ease to entry and exit in the market. As we have seen with new organizations, recently, you can enter a market and get going rather quickly with the right personnel in place.
The great part of this for the consumer (travel ball teams) is that ease of entry and exit in the market allows for a higher level of competition. That may be in the way of more competitive costs, better run tournaments, better qualifications for year-ending tournaments, better ranking of teams, more information, etc.
I think the best is yet ahead of us because there seems to be an increase in organizational exposure here in GA and I expect these things to get better and better. Nationally it will take longer, but locally we should start to see better and better things.
No PS here are my opinions about the different groups:
USSSA has a strong foundational structure. They have a ranking system in place, and a very strong qualification network for moving the season toward a final goal (National or Elite tournament). Because of their size, they have some loopholes in their system that allows teams to navigate around the rules. They seem to be interested in addressing these. How long it takes is yet to be seen. One of the things that hurt them is they don't run most of their tournaments and leave that up to individual TD's. Because of this, they are at the mercy of the TD's doing a good job and reporting info in a timely manner. If the TD's don't it reflects badly on USSSA.
Triple Crown - Run a really good tournament in this area. I will almost argue that it is more due to Tony V than the organization. I have been to other TC tournaments in other parts of the country and thought they were ok, but not as good as Tony's. Maybe we are spoiled. Unfortunately TC does not have a ranking system and you can get in a tournament with teams from AA to Major and not really know.
USTBA - They are relatively new in our area but have put on good tournaments. They seem to try to provide a "better experience". Even giving rings out for the first place winners in some tournaments. They also have a ranking system and have it easily accessible to the general public. It still needs refining but at least exists.
Nations Baseball - They are the new kid on the block. They have some good foundational pieces put in place. This next season will be a good view of how they provide visibility and service.
ASA has always been a strong organization with really good National tournaments. Unfortunately they have lost ground with TC and the others that have come into town. |
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Alter-Ego
802 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2009 : 14:11:28
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Correction on one statement I made, above. I meant to say that these organizations are not "volunteer" organizations. These organizations are typically non-profit but are not solely ran by volunteers with no salaries and "Just for fun."
It seems, in talking with a lot of people, that they expect since coaches are usually volunteers, the tournaments should be ran at little or no cost to the teams entering, or the fans attending. Many used to moderately accept tournaments being put on as a "Fundraiser" for a team or organization. Maybe that came from the league environment that you paid your player fee up front and there were no additional costs. If the league did a year-end tournament, the teams did not have to pay to participate, or fans to attend.
Unfortunately that is the same as comparing antenna TV to Cable. |
Edited by - Alter-Ego on 12/04/2009 14:28:58 |
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baseballpapa
1520 Posts |
Posted - 12/04/2009 : 14:50:17
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Papa has had a long discussion with a Nations Baseball representative and look forward to playing in some of the events that are being planned. They appear to have real baseball people running this show and seem to want to put the kids first but at the same time want to attract the top teams. Given the choice of playing for a 6 foot trophy playing a mediocre field or playing for pride against the best in the region I can promise you that the Bandits will choose playing the best everytime. Winning the trophies is not what proves you are the best but playing against the best and winning moves you closer to the top of the heap.
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PS Iron Pigs
129 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2009 : 16:09:48
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| What does everyone know about Super Series Baseball? They seem to be very strong around the Dalton and North GA area. |
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Alter-Ego
802 Posts |
Posted - 12/05/2009 : 18:54:01
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| To my knowledge, Super Series is non-existant below Dalton. They are tied in with National Youth Baseball as one of the representative Organizations. |
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oldmanmj
191 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2009 : 17:29:59
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| There are a couple of other groups that no one has mentioned and are well run tournaments although no usually attributed to the hoards that participate in USSSA, etc. CABA, the first and only 100% voluntary organization, so I have been told. They have very good tournaments and very well run national tournaments at the end of the season. Another is the AABC, quietly growing in Georgia and a great WS for the younger groups-Puerto Rico, with great competition. How about NABF, also another good group. Sadly, it is all about running the business, and everyone is looking for good teams and well run tournaments. Sadly, you are at the mercy of the local TD. Amen and cudos to Tony V at Triple Crown. |
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budfrog1
53 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2009 : 18:16:16
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quote:
Originally posted by baseballpapa
Papa has had a long discussion with a Nations Baseball representative and look forward to playing in some of the events that are being planned. They appear to have real baseball people running this show and seem to want to put the kids first but at the same time want to attract the top teams. Given the choice of playing for a 6 foot trophy playing a mediocre field or playing for pride against the best in the region I can promise you that the Bandits will choose playing the best everytime. Winning the trophies is not what proves you are the best but playing against the best and winning moves you closer to the top of the heap.
From what I have read in my short time here, baseballpapa is very well known and liked with a ton of baseball knowledge. I respect that! In fairness, I feel that the Grand Slam events are played at "better than average" facilities with some very good teams participating. We just happen to be known for our 6-foot tall trophy that is quite a hit for the teams that play with us. I respect any team that wants to play the best but at the same time, I humbly think Grand Slam events can compare with most anyone when it comes to a quality run event at a quality venue with quality trophies and teams. Maybe not the "best", but certainly competitive.
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baseballpapa
1520 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2009 : 15:51:11
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Papa agrees with the Grand Slam comments. There is absoulutely nothing wrong with the big trophy as long it is not the main attraction. Grand Slam is ok in my book and should be given the same chance as all the others and as long as they continue to put the kids first and make it as easy for the teams to play in nice venues with good competititon they will continue to be successful.
As I have stated earlier the more competititon there is the better it should be for the kids and their teams. As we move forward the organizations that put on the best show at the best venues with the best teams will be the big winner. |
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jaguars18
245 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2009 : 21:45:08
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grand slam works hard to run good tourneys, ustba does not communicate very well and schedules change on a dime. Usssa is a known organization and easy to understand tournament procedures.
Nations is new and seems to be trying hard |
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Whitlow
211 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2009 : 00:45:23
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| I wouldn't worry about organizations so much and instead would focus on good tournaments with good directors at good locations based on word of mouth unless you trying to accumulate points or rankings. I think you can have good or bad experiences in any of these organizations. |
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gasbag
281 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2009 : 13:55:50
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I think these organizations, are only as good as the tournament directors who carry them off ! Some TD's pay attention to minute details and are very concerned about the experience for the boys. Others seem to act like they could care less about anything except the money ! Still others are placed in bad positions by the weather and end up having to make instant judgments / decisions. That's my biggest disappointment, the lack of continuity and consistency with refunds or lack thereof due to weather. We parents are heavily vested in this Travel Ball experience. Traveling out of town to a tournament that gets rained out is extremely costly to us parents and the fees we pay to our teams to have our boys play. I know the tournaments are in business to make money and I'm sensitive to their challenges with these issues....this also seems to me to be determined by the TD. In a nutshell, I think we've had good experiences with almost every organization and I also think we've experienced some stinkers with each organization as well ! Depends upon the TD more so than the orgainization.
Speaking of which, to all 12U ballplayers, if you get a chance to experience Cooperstown this year, do it. It's memories for a lifetime, well run and makes each ballplayer feel special and have an opportunity for success ! I's extremely expensive but I believe worth the money. |
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PS Iron Pigs
129 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2009 : 15:00:06
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| So how does someone know which TDs are good and which ones are not so good if you've never played with them in the past? I really don't want to get into a list or anything, but I don't know any other way except to spend the money and see what you get. I'd rather be a little more in tune with the organizations from teams that have experience without having to waste or parents funds. |
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baseballpapa
1520 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2009 : 18:57:13
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| Someone made a statement that we should look for the strongest tournament with the best competition and get in it. This makes the most sense to me especially if all else is equal. The venues are nice, fields being dragged are nice, big trophies are nice, well run organized tournaments are nice but nothing and especially none of the above can ever compare to having to play your pants off to win. |
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Organization Comparison
