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Punishers
688 Posts |
 Posted - 01/19/2017 : 23:34:36
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| Has anyone ever heard of dad coaches paying themselves? Heard this from a parent and had to double-take to it. No dad coach should be paying themselves as they are not professional coaches in any way. |
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JClemente
13 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2017 : 10:43:40
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| We can't always assume that just because a person is a father that they are not a professional coach. Do we really know everyone's playing background? Also, just because you played D1 college ball or professional ball doesn't make you a good coach. My son plays basketball right now with a "paid" professional coach and this is the worst season, as far as, development I have ever seen. There is no attachment to the team or parents. Ultimately, the decision to play with that team is with the parent(s). A few questions parents should ask themselves when they make a decision like this: Are the kids receiving quality instruction from the coach and his staff? Are the kids being developed as young men and baseball players? Are the kids having fun learning the game? If the parent(s) can answer "yes" to those questions and they feel good about their decision to pay this coach, then who are we to question that decision as an outsider? Just my two cents. |
Edited by - JClemente on 01/20/2017 11:13:00 |
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ballsandbats
85 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2017 : 13:45:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
Has anyone ever heard of dad coaches paying themselves? Heard this from a parent and had to double-take to it. No dad coach should be paying themselves as they are not professional coaches in any way.
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2017 : 14:27:45
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My questions would be how much is the coach being paid, what is his background?
In a typical situation what a coach gets paid vs. the time he is actually on the field or working with the kids, or planning the line up, or researching opponents brings his pay to about $0.75 per hour in most cases. I don't begrudge a dad with a decent background, that can actually teach my son something, being paid for his time. If you really mapped out the pay it likely paid for his kid to play for free and his gas to get everywhere, and if he's qualified I think that was a good deal for everyone. |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2017 : 15:55:29
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quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
My questions would be how much is the coach being paid, what is his background?
In a typical situation what a coach gets paid vs. the time he is actually on the field or working with the kids, or planning the line up, or researching opponents brings his pay to about $0.75 per hour in most cases. I don't begrudge a dad with a decent background, that can actually teach my son something, being paid for his time. If you really mapped out the pay it likely paid for his kid to play for free and his gas to get everywhere, and if he's qualified I think that was a good deal for everyone.
In a park association? if you count coaching owns son's team as being qualified. |
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oneZone
117 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2017 : 16:46:49
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| Punisher, just curious: What's your definition of "pro coach"? And are you a pro coach? And do you coach your own kid? |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2017 : 16:58:33
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quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
My questions would be how much is the coach being paid, what is his background?
In a typical situation what a coach gets paid vs. the time he is actually on the field or working with the kids, or planning the line up, or researching opponents brings his pay to about $0.75 per hour in most cases. I don't begrudge a dad with a decent background, that can actually teach my son something, being paid for his time. If you really mapped out the pay it likely paid for his kid to play for free and his gas to get everywhere, and if he's qualified I think that was a good deal for everyone.
In a park association? if you count coaching owns son's team as being qualified. |
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catmando
107 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2017 : 17:02:08
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| maybe let kid play free but hard to pay coach if dad BUT that is parents call..join or not up to them |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2017 : 01:40:26
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quote:
Originally posted by oneZone
Punisher, just curious: What's your definition of "pro coach"? And are you a pro coach? And do you coach your own kid?
I consider a professional coach as one with a significant coaching and/or playing resume and not someone playing video games who decides to get off the couch to coach his kids team. I'm not a "pro coach" anymore. Just train. Easier to train players than coach a team. No way I would coach my own kid's team. Will not be the coach if he decides to play as he gets older anyway. I see it as a lawyer who represents himself. If people are ok with it, then it's on them. It's just new to me, and I've played this game at every level.
When I was coaching I did have a bias with the teams I had. Had some really good teams and some bad teams. I put more effort in the really good teams than the bad teams even though the coaching (game time decision making) was the same. Those kids would not leave the field even when practice was over with. 6hr Saturday practices and they wanted more. I hear people complain about some paid coach experiences and there are some bad ones out there. I bet if that same coach was handed a stud team his interest would change and they would be more involved. Paid or not; Hard to coach a team with below-average players who do not want to practice or train. |
Edited by - Punishers on 01/21/2017 09:57:41 |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2017 : 07:52:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
quote:
Originally posted by oneZone
Punisher, just curious: What's your definition of "pro coach"? And are you a pro coach? And do you coach your own kid?
I consider a professional coach as one with a significant coaching and/or playing resume and not someone playing video games who decides to get off the couch to coach his kids team. I'm not a "pro coach" anymore. Just train. Easier to train players than coach a team. No way I would coach my own kid's team. Will not be the coach if he decides to play as he gets older anyway. I see it as a lawyer who represents himself. If people are ok with it, then it's on them. It's just new to me, and I've played this game at every level.
When I was coaching I did have a bias with the teams I had. Had some really good teams and some bad teams. I put more effort in the really good teams than the bad teams even though the coaching (game time decision making) was the same. Those kids would not leave the field even when practice was over with. 6hr Saturday practices and they wanted more. I hear people complain about some paid coach experiences and there are some bad ones out there. I bet if that same coach was handed a stud team his interest would change and they would be more involved. Paid or not; Hard to coach a team with below-average players who do not want to practice or train.
Hard to coach a team like that without getting some kind of benefit, like being paid.
But really, how much are you talking about? If the guy has zero experience playing or coaching and he's being paid 10K for Spring then yeah I see the problem. However, if he's putting up with all the paperwork and check cutting and tournament research and 2-4 practices per week plus outside time and he's getting 3K then it's worth it in my opinion. |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2017 : 14:15:48
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| Example: Volunteer out of a park association, playing league (not tournament), 5-6k per season, mom of another play handling the accounting details. |
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in_the_know
985 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2017 : 17:24:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
Example: Volunteer out of a park association, playing league (not tournament), 5-6k per season, mom of another play handling the accounting details.
If that's a "real world" example and not just something that you're putting out there as a hypothetical, then it's completely out of line and the responsibility of the board to put an end to it.
In every park association (rec ball) we were ever involved with set the price to participate, period. Coaches had no authority to charge extra fees. I have seen where coaches would present options to their team to pool money to rent indoor hitting facility to allow some practice when weather impacted it, but it was always based on full agreement, or a few parents with the resources offering to rent a facility.
If there is a dad coach actually charging his park affiliated rec team for his coaching services, then the park board should be alerted to end it. If they are allowing it, they should be ousted from their board positions. |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 01/23/2017 : 19:35:28
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quote:
Originally posted by in_the_know
quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
Example: Volunteer out of a park association, playing league (not tournament), 5-6k per season, mom of another play handling the accounting details.
If that's a "real world" example and not just something that you're putting out there as a hypothetical, then it's completely out of line and the responsibility of the board to put an end to it.
In every park association (rec ball) we were ever involved with set the price to participate, period. Coaches had no authority to charge extra fees. I have seen where coaches would present options to their team to pool money to rent indoor hitting facility to allow some practice when weather impacted it, but it was always based on full agreement, or a few parents with the resources offering to rent a facility.
If there is a dad coach actually charging his park affiliated rec team for his coaching services, then the park board should be alerted to end it. If they are allowing it, they should be ousted from their board positions.
Wish I could say it wasn't true.
I totally agree with you. Not a rec team, but league team. Still park associated. Like I said before. This is something new to me. Never heard of it before, and I've coached rec and league teams for free. The board is clueless and they wonder why their numbers are declining. |
Edited by - Punishers on 01/23/2017 19:41:11 |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2017 : 09:14:38
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| Define "League team"....I'm familiar with a local rec park that also has a travel ball team. They play in USSSA, Triple Crown, Grand Slam...etc type of tourneys. Is that what you are calling a League team? |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2017 : 10:53:21
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quote:
Originally posted by CaCO3Girl
Define "League team"....I'm familiar with a local rec park that also has a travel ball team. They play in USSSA, Triple Crown, Grand Slam...etc type of tourneys. Is that what you are calling a League team?
League team that actually play other association league teams in a specific area. They call it travel for some reason, but is actually a league. ie....GGBL is a league that they call travel. Travel teams play tournaments and most of the time they do not play at their home field. |
Edited by - Punishers on 01/24/2017 11:22:23 |
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Renegade44
211 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2017 : 11:51:09
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Well why not? Its not like everybody else isn't making a business out of travel baseball. Ya got 10's of tournament directors making use of million dollar public assets (county park fields) to run their business. Ya got every other vacant commercial building putting up an indoor training center of some athletic sort. Ya got hundreds of ex-players, ex-pros, fringe experts, school coaches, associate to associate of assistant associate level scouts, current scammers, past scammers, future scammers making a huge hourly income off little Johny's lessons, telling him if he just works hard, commits to $2,000 worth of lessons, and about $6000 worth of travel ball team, the sky is the limit.
So tell me? Why exactly should the Coach Dad (if he does happens to have some active playing expertise, or some active learned expertise, or some group of like minded parents/players supportive of him) not get in on this free market industry of selling dreams to young players?
Is he somehow a less inferior dream seller? Is he not allowed to sell dreams?
This whole youth sports industry has gone off the rails absurd. |
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Gapper
64 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2017 : 13:39:45
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| Renegade just keepin' it real! |
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2017 : 14:13:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Renegade44
Well why not? Its not like everybody else isn't making a business out of travel baseball. Ya got 10's of tournament directors making use of million dollar public assets (county park fields) to run their business. Ya got every other vacant commercial building putting up an indoor training center of some athletic sort. Ya got hundreds of ex-players, ex-pros, fringe experts, school coaches, associate to associate of assistant associate level scouts, current scammers, past scammers, future scammers making a huge hourly income off little Johny's lessons, telling him if he just works hard, commits to $2,000 worth of lessons, and about $6000 worth of travel ball team, the sky is the limit.
So tell me? Why exactly should the Coach Dad (if he does happens to have some active playing expertise, or some active learned expertise, or some group of like minded parents/players supportive of him) not get in on this free market industry of selling dreams to young players?
Is he somehow a less inferior dream seller? Is he not allowed to sell dreams?
This whole youth sports industry has gone off the rails absurd.
Did someone swallow a cranky pill this morning? Did you not have enough coffee? Life's not so bad Renegade! We get to watch baseball soon :- )  |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2017 : 17:06:32
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| Renegade has a point. A very valid one at that. There are a lot of people who have their hands in the pot. Dad coaching his own sons team should not get paid IMO. Then again, the son may not be on a team if it wasn't for it. Seems like everyone is trying to sell the dream when in reality baseball is a hard and sucky life. There were guys in the minors who were 35 yrs old when I showed up at 21. I knew then, my chances were worse than playing the lottery of getting called up. Had to get an advantage. If you want a scholarship for your kid in a sport, play basketball or football for the full ride and no minor league to deal with. The percentages that colleges give baseball is a joke. Problem is underestimating your competition. The latin kids make up most of the pro rosters. Go play football at Alabama for 3 yrs and make millions or basketball at Kentucky for 1 yr and do the same. |
Edited by - Punishers on 01/24/2017 19:03:05 |
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Renegade44
211 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2017 : 17:41:45
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Question? If you do get paid or have been paid, Does that now qualify one to be called a "professional coach"? After all it "may" be old Dad Coach's next career after putting in 15 years at the local volunteer park level.
Moving on up to the professional paid level.
Why not??? |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2017 : 19:13:32
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| Not a professional coach, just a paid coach. No high level (college or above coaching or playing resume). I would go as far as atleast coaching highschool at a minimum. |
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Renegade44
211 Posts |
Posted - 01/24/2017 : 22:25:54
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I got it!
Baseball needs to do like Tennis does for teaching professionals. Have a certification program that identifies you have met the minimum standards of the USPTA.
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CaCO3Girl
1989 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2017 : 09:09:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Punishers
Renegade has a point. A very valid one at that. There are a lot of people who have their hands in the pot. Dad coaching his own sons team should not get paid IMO. Then again, the son may not be on a team if it wasn't for it. Seems like everyone is trying to sell the dream when in reality baseball is a hard and sucky life. There were guys in the minors who were 35 yrs old when I showed up at 21. I knew then, my chances were worse than playing the lottery of getting called up. Had to get an advantage. If you want a scholarship for your kid in a sport, play basketball or football for the full ride and no minor league to deal with. The percentages that colleges give baseball is a joke. Problem is underestimating your competition. The latin kids make up most of the pro rosters. Go play football at Alabama for 3 yrs and make millions or basketball at Kentucky for 1 yr and do the same.
Baseball is not a sport of convenience....the Red Sox really don't love you back....but if your boy loves it he loves it! |
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Hurricane
351 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2017 : 10:36:39
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| I coached travel teams in the past few times with my son on the team. I never got a dime for coaching. Played College baseball at the D-1 Level. Only one year did my son get his fees paid for. I believe it was 1,500. I missed a lot of work for PG tournaments and the best part of it was in the last tournament of the season, during a BP session after my son left the cage, a kid says why has coach been riding your ass lately? My son says that is what dad's do. More than half the team was like that is not your dad. Coached some travel teams without my son playing. Doing a 15U this summer not getting paid a dime. Point I am trying to make is I have worked with some dads that were awful coaches and awful in over playing their kids. I have also coached with a few that were great coaches and knew where their son stood and played him accordingly. Baseball is tough but come on to play college basketball you have to be a freak. To play college football its possible but to be honest the high schools wear these kids out in football now and most don't want to play unless they are good enough to play D-1 football. |
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catmando
107 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2017 : 15:39:43
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| not sure anyone is forcing people to pay at any level..stay in rec and make rec great again. its parents on ego trips funding this crap |
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Punishers
688 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2017 : 18:07:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Renegade44
I got it!
Baseball needs to do like Tennis does for teaching professionals. Have a certification program that identifies you have met the minimum standards of the USPTA.
I have to agree with you on that one. |
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Paid Dad Coaches??
